Trying to Get Pregnant

Chartstalk/Questions Week of 10/02

LaceyBee522LaceyBee522 member
edited October 2017 in Trying to Get Pregnant
This is a thread where anyone can feel free to request a chart stalk, second-guess FF's interpretation, or post TTC-related questions, regardless of where in your cycle you are. Sometimes FF is wrong. That's where we come in. Get your second opinion here! 

Edited to fix title formatting. 
Pregnancy Ticker
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Re: Chartstalk/Questions Week of 10/02

  • Kicking off my first started discussion with the first reply. Chart posted below. As you'll see it is hella erratic.
    I feel like I'm following all the rules:

    I'm temping at 6:00 AM every day (except on very rare mornings when I go to the gym earlier and have to temp at 5:25. I make note of it.). 

    I'm using a Mobius (sp?) BBT thermometer.

    As soon as my alarm goes off, I reach out and put the thermometer under my tongue without moving around a bunch.

    Am I missing something? I'm thinking of switching next cycle and using the body temp my Ava has been providing. It seems less erratic. Maybe I'm wrong? All input welcome!

    Fertility Friend chart:
    Versus

    Ava Body temp chart:


    Thanks all!! 


    Pregnancy Ticker
  • @laceybee522
    I also struggled to get reliable temps under the tongue, so moved to temping vaginally which was much less erratic.
    However I also use Ava and either use it as the backup in case I get a weird temp or get woken up super early, as I did both religiously for three months and found the temp changes were the same with both at the same time (minus the ones I knew would be no good from the thermometer).
    Sorry not much help with the thermometer stuff as so far what you explained covers most of the points I know to watch for.
    Me 43 DH 45
    Married 12/2016
    TTC #1 since 04/2015
    AMA, DOR (AMH 0.65, AFC 2-4) and autoimmune issues (RA, APS), low TSH, adenomyosis
    7 retrievals, 3 transfers
    Jun19 FET BFP, due date 7th March 2020, DD born Feb20
    Sep17 IVF1 - 1ER, 1F, 1ET, BFN
    Nov17 IVF2 - 1ER, 0F
    Jan18 IVF3 - 3ER, 1F, 1ET, BFN
    Feb18 - second opinion and additional testing
    Apr18 IVF4 - cancelled (E2 too high)
    May/Jun18 IVF4 - 4ER, 0M, 1F, 1 frozen day 3 (not best quality)
    Jun/Jul18 IVF5 - 5 ER, 3M, 2F, 2 frozen day 3 (not best quality)
    Jul/Aug18 IVF6 - 4ER, 3M, 2F, 2 frozen day 3 (good quality)
    Aug/Sep18 IVF7 - cancelled (cyst)
    Sep/Oct18 IVF7 - 3ER, 3M, 2F, 2 frozen Day 3 (excellent quality)
    Oct18 IVF8 - Cancelled (cyst and too low TSH)
    Oct18-Jan19 bringing TSH under control
    Feb19 ERA and hysteroscopy
    Mar19 Investigation for fibroid and adenomyosis
    Apr19 adenomyosis confirmed, polyps removed
    Jun19 FET after 2 months Lupron, autoimmune protocol, transferred two day 3 frozen embryos
    Sep17 - Pergoveris 10-17 Sep, Orgalutran 15-18 Sep, Ovitrelle 18 Sep, ER 20 Sep for 2 follies, 1 mature egg, fertilized, ET 1x 2d 4-cell embryo 22/09, 05/10 BFN
    Nov17 IVF2 - Pergoveris 2-14 Nov, Orgalutran 5-14 Nov, Ovitrelle 15 Nov, ER 17 Nov for 3 follies, 1 mature egg, did not fertilize
    Jan18 IVF3 - Pergoveris 30 Dec - 8 Jan, Orgalutran 5-8 Jan, Ovitrelle 9 Jan, ER 11 Jan 3 eggs, 2 mature, 1 fertilized, ET 1x 4d 12-cell embryo 15/01, 24/01 BFN
    May/Jun18 IVF4 - Rekovelle 25-29 May, Menogon 30May - 2Jun, Zomacton 25 27 29 31 May and 2Jun, Cetrotide 30May - 3Jun, Gonasi 3Jun, ER 5Jun 4 eggs, none mature, two matured overnight, 1 fertilized with ICSI, Frozen day 3 but not good quality
    Jun/Jul18 IVF5 - Rekovelle 21-24 June, Menogon 25Jun-3Jul, Puregon 4-5Jul, Zomacton 21 23 25 27 29 Jun, Cetrotide 25Jun-5Jul, Gonasi 6Jul, ER 8Jul 5 eggs, 3 mature, 2 fertilized with ICSI, 2 frozen day 3 but not good quality
    Jul/Aug18 IVF6 - Rekovelle 26-29 Jul, Menogon 30Jul-7Aug, Buserelin 26Jul-7Aug, Zomacton 26 28 30 Jul 1 3 Aug, Gonasi 7Aug, ER 9Aug 4 eggs, 3 mature, 2 fertilized (normal IVF), 2 frozen day 3 good quality
    Sep/Oct18 IVF7 - Menogon 19-30Sep, Buserelin 19-30Sep, Zomacton 19 21 23 25 27 Sep, Ovitrelle 1 Oct, ER 3 eggs, 3 mature, 2 fertilized with ICSI, 2 frozen day 3 excellent quality 

    Fav Quote: The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return

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  • Thanks @emmasemm. That's part of what I'm finding frustrating. I feel like my Ava and FF don't even correlate. I know the numbers will be different under tongue versus skin temp, but you'd think they'd both dip/rise at the same time. 
    Pregnancy Ticker
  • @LaceyBee522 I would also suggest trying the vaginal temping to see if you get more consistent temps (but wait until the next cycle starts if AF comes).  Are you having restless sleeps on the days you have higher temps??
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • @canucklehead123 Thanks! I'm generally a fairly restless sleeper, but I haven't been keeping track of especially bad nights. I'll start doing that.
    Pregnancy Ticker
  • @LaceyBee522 How long have you been temping? Do you know if your temps are always this erratic, or is it just for this cycle?

    Everyone I personally know who struggled with oral temperature consistency (for whatever reason--restless sleep, mouth breathing, etc.) had better success with vaginal temping, but I know not everyone loves doing that.
    Me: 34 
    Husband: 35
    Married: June 2007
    Son Max born 1/10/17
    BFP #2: 10/5/17; EDD: 6/11/18
  • edited October 2017
    @LaceyBee522 yes keep track of restless nights!! If I have a restless sleep, my temp will spike without fail and this could be happening for you!
    ETA: also, if you keep track of your CM every day it will help FF with your crosshairs
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • @laceybee522 actually if you put your Ava HRV alongside you might see some correlation with the odd temps you're taking - or those nights where sleep is recorded shorter? As well as using FF I also chart manually in excel putting together my Ava and vaginal temps. But I'm just OCD for tracking!
    Me 43 DH 45
    Married 12/2016
    TTC #1 since 04/2015
    AMA, DOR (AMH 0.65, AFC 2-4) and autoimmune issues (RA, APS), low TSH, adenomyosis
    7 retrievals, 3 transfers
    Jun19 FET BFP, due date 7th March 2020, DD born Feb20
    Sep17 IVF1 - 1ER, 1F, 1ET, BFN
    Nov17 IVF2 - 1ER, 0F
    Jan18 IVF3 - 3ER, 1F, 1ET, BFN
    Feb18 - second opinion and additional testing
    Apr18 IVF4 - cancelled (E2 too high)
    May/Jun18 IVF4 - 4ER, 0M, 1F, 1 frozen day 3 (not best quality)
    Jun/Jul18 IVF5 - 5 ER, 3M, 2F, 2 frozen day 3 (not best quality)
    Jul/Aug18 IVF6 - 4ER, 3M, 2F, 2 frozen day 3 (good quality)
    Aug/Sep18 IVF7 - cancelled (cyst)
    Sep/Oct18 IVF7 - 3ER, 3M, 2F, 2 frozen Day 3 (excellent quality)
    Oct18 IVF8 - Cancelled (cyst and too low TSH)
    Oct18-Jan19 bringing TSH under control
    Feb19 ERA and hysteroscopy
    Mar19 Investigation for fibroid and adenomyosis
    Apr19 adenomyosis confirmed, polyps removed
    Jun19 FET after 2 months Lupron, autoimmune protocol, transferred two day 3 frozen embryos
    Sep17 - Pergoveris 10-17 Sep, Orgalutran 15-18 Sep, Ovitrelle 18 Sep, ER 20 Sep for 2 follies, 1 mature egg, fertilized, ET 1x 2d 4-cell embryo 22/09, 05/10 BFN
    Nov17 IVF2 - Pergoveris 2-14 Nov, Orgalutran 5-14 Nov, Ovitrelle 15 Nov, ER 17 Nov for 3 follies, 1 mature egg, did not fertilize
    Jan18 IVF3 - Pergoveris 30 Dec - 8 Jan, Orgalutran 5-8 Jan, Ovitrelle 9 Jan, ER 11 Jan 3 eggs, 2 mature, 1 fertilized, ET 1x 4d 12-cell embryo 15/01, 24/01 BFN
    May/Jun18 IVF4 - Rekovelle 25-29 May, Menogon 30May - 2Jun, Zomacton 25 27 29 31 May and 2Jun, Cetrotide 30May - 3Jun, Gonasi 3Jun, ER 5Jun 4 eggs, none mature, two matured overnight, 1 fertilized with ICSI, Frozen day 3 but not good quality
    Jun/Jul18 IVF5 - Rekovelle 21-24 June, Menogon 25Jun-3Jul, Puregon 4-5Jul, Zomacton 21 23 25 27 29 Jun, Cetrotide 25Jun-5Jul, Gonasi 6Jul, ER 8Jul 5 eggs, 3 mature, 2 fertilized with ICSI, 2 frozen day 3 but not good quality
    Jul/Aug18 IVF6 - Rekovelle 26-29 Jul, Menogon 30Jul-7Aug, Buserelin 26Jul-7Aug, Zomacton 26 28 30 Jul 1 3 Aug, Gonasi 7Aug, ER 9Aug 4 eggs, 3 mature, 2 fertilized (normal IVF), 2 frozen day 3 good quality
    Sep/Oct18 IVF7 - Menogon 19-30Sep, Buserelin 19-30Sep, Zomacton 19 21 23 25 27 Sep, Ovitrelle 1 Oct, ER 3 eggs, 3 mature, 2 fertilized with ICSI, 2 frozen day 3 excellent quality 

    Fav Quote: The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return

  • @MoonOverGoldsboro I've been temping for two cycles. My previous month was just as erratic, but this is the first month I got any semblance of a cross hairs. 

    @canucklehead123 Yes, I need to track my CM better. I don't feel confident in my ability to identify the different consistencies, so I find myself just avoiding it.

    @emmasemm I will take a closer look at the less sleep = high temp possibility. I've just been looking at mountans versus nice neat curve without really digging deeper.

    A question for all of you, I guess...is vaginal temping the same process as oral temping, you're just putting it in a different hole? (<---Sorry! I couldn't think of a different way to explain my question!) Like, you just put it in and wait for the 4 beeps? God, I feel so dumb asking that question. 
    Pregnancy Ticker
  • @LaceyBee522 So, it sounds like maybe erratic oral temps are common for you, and this cycle isn't just a weird outlier. This could definitely be due to regular restless sleeping, which really fricks things up for some people. In that case, I would try a switch to vaginal temping for the next cycle. Yes, you just stick it in a different hole. :) It takes a little more maneuvering than the oral temp, but it might be worth it!
    Me: 34 
    Husband: 35
    Married: June 2007
    Son Max born 1/10/17
    BFP #2: 10/5/17; EDD: 6/11/18
  • @emmasemm I love excel and love that you are a data nerd like me. I have no idea why tracking in excel never crossed my mind. 
  • @LaceyBee522 I think you only have the dotted crosshairs because of your positive OPK, not temps. With your temps, it doesn't look to me like you Oed yet. Plus, with the EWCM today, I wonder if you might be Oing soon. Do you typically get EWCM after O? I think it's possible, but not super common to get it after O. I could definitely be wrong though and you may have Oed already!
    Another question: what happens if you discard those high temps on CD8 and CD12? If those were high from restless sleep, I wonder if you might get solid crosshairs. If I were you, I'd keep HIO just in case though.
    *TW*
    Me: 31 | DH: 33
    DD1: 8/2014  <3
    TTC #2: 6/2017
    BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
    BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
    BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
    BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
    DD2: 10/2018  <3
  • @MoonOverGoldsboro Thanks! Can't wait to explain to husband what the eff I'm doing in the morning now. All the LOLzzzzz!

    @offtoneverland Thanks! The EWCF was actually a slip of the thumb when I was entering data this morning. Here's what it looks like with the CD8 and CD12 discarded: 

    Pregnancy Ticker
  • OK Folks I have never shared a chart and its still really early for me. I feel like I'm really stressing myself out with timing - I hope this isn't TMI but its hard for me to have sex like 5 days in a row. We are sexual with each other, but usually not to that degree. I don't want to get burned out before the time is right! I'm also second guessing myself on the ovulation predictor stuff. Last month I did it and could surely see when I was ovulating - it was clear after the fact. But my cycle isn't regular. Last month it looked like O day was at CD 15. I just wish I had a crystal ball. Any suggestions??I know you can't read the future, but any input would be great. Also, this is the first month I've temped. 

  • @mygoodlucycat judging by the positive OPK and slight temp dip - O looks imminent.  It would be helpful to keep track of your CM, as this would add another layer of data and help you determine when your FW is.  Have you noticed watery or egg-white cm today or in the last few days?  If yes, then I'd head straight to the bedroom (or wherever works...!) 
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • @canucklehead123  I am not totally sure on those OPKs! The lines aren't the same color but they are getting darker. Certainly not as dark as they get. I don't know. Thus the overthinking!!
    Yes I need to do CM. Like @LaceyBee522 I don't have a lot of confidence in the CM stuff, but I'll work on it. 

  • @mygoodlucycat ah I see - sorry I misread!  If they aren't as dark as you know they can get, then I would keep POAS until it's a true positive and you have no doubt.  This happened to me this cycle too, ended up using a lot of OPKS but in the end, the true positive was beyond a doubt.
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • @LaceyBee522 I always noticed that my temp would be higher if I had a 2nd (or more) drink the night before. Not saying you're a wino like I am, but something to consider. I had to be very careful about drinking when I thought O was coming soon.

    @mygoodlucycat best of luck with HIO. That is always a struggle for us too. It's hard to not lose steam. I'd also recommend aiming for EOD if ED is getting too "business-like." 
  • @mygoodlucycat Have you read Taking Charge of Your Fertility? I highly recommend it if you haven't. It really helps you get a grasp of CM, how to check for it, and how to differentiate between the different types. Totally agree with @canucklehead123 that the OPKs don't sound like they're positive yet. I'd change them to negative in FF and watch for the test line to get as dark or darker than the control. And I fully agree with @adirat too. Try not to stress yourself out with HIO every day, especially if you guys are not up for it. I stressed myself out about it last cycle and we had great timing, but obviously it doesn't really mean anything since I'm still here. :D Just try to do what you normally do while watching your CM. GL to you!
    *TW*
    Me: 31 | DH: 33
    DD1: 8/2014  <3
    TTC #2: 6/2017
    BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
    BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
    BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
    BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
    DD2: 10/2018  <3
  • I too want to agree with @adirat, HIO every day because you have to is the worst.  One time while TTC, we did every day for 2 weeks and I never ovulated.  It was frustrating on both of us and felt like such a chore.  We are at a place now DH doesn't like to know when we "have" to, essentially I just initiate on those days and don't tell him.
  • I have routinely referred to applying Preseed as "putting in the goo." Really gets those loins burnin', let me tell you.
    Me: 34 
    Husband: 35
    Married: June 2007
    Son Max born 1/10/17
    BFP #2: 10/5/17; EDD: 6/11/18
  • We mix it up...we'll do everyday if we feel like it, but if one of us is stressed or just not feeling it, we switch to EOD. I think next cycle we'll just stick to EOD. 
    Siggy Challenge - Summer Movie Scenes


  • And here I was, never having looked into Preeseed, just assuming it was like regular lube... the more you know!
  • @br0co1ii you can use it like regular lube as well (unsure if it less effective this way or not, but assuming so as it is farther away from cervix)...
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • Quick question about cervical position, which I'm just starting to figure out how to track. I understood from TCOYF that it should feel relatively low and hard during the luteal phase, but I'm unclear how much variation there is in this. For ladies who track cervical position, what do you notice during the luteal phase?
  • edited October 2017
    Ok science nerds, I dunno why I do this to myself...  I *of course* was obsessively googling about anovulatory cycles, BBT temp shifts, and if ovulation is possible without a BBT shift temp (cause clearly I'm in denial and more willing to accept myself as a medical miracle than admit I haven't O'd yet) and I came across this article.  Now I know just because it's a published article doesn't mean it's the gospel truth.  But any thoughts on this?  It flat out states, "However, it has long been recognized that some women may ovulate without a clear rise in temperature; this is called a monophasic pattern (Figure 3) (Morris, Underwood, & Easterling, 1976)."  Also, "Only 22.1% of the 77 cycles that were determined by endocrine profiles to be ovulatory and to have adequate luteal phases demonstrated an interpretable shift." 

    Either way, long story short I don't know what to make of this article.  The key point of it is to prove that BBT charting is not the most accurate way to predict ovulation, well no duh.  That's a given, but some of the other things mentioned seem opposite of what I've always heard.  I don't know if there's any truth in stating that it's possible to O w/o a temp shift.  Thoughts? 

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7628964_Basal_body_temperature_assessment_is_it_useful_to_couples_seeking_pregnancy

    ETA: words and stuff, also to note, I did try search TB a bit to see if this has been previously discussed, but couldn't find anything.


    BFP 3/21/2020!  OMG We're having TWINS! 4/17/2020
    --------------------------------
    LO arrived 11/9/2018!  We have a baby!
    --------------------------------
    Me: 33 | DH: 41
    Married: March 2016
    TTC #1/IUD out January 2017
    PCOS dx January 2018
    Medicated cycle 2.5mg Letrozole CD3-7 February 2018
    BFP 3/10/2018! 
    -------------------------------

    TTGP December Siggy Co-Winner: Favorite Moments from Holiday Movies/TV 
    TTGP October Siggy Winner: Animals in Costume 



  • @josie12367 Thank you! That's really helpful. I've just started checking this cycle (and not very consistently), so I don't have a sense yet of what normal feels like for me.
    (Also, I totally lol'd at your penis visualization comment)
  • @darkstar42 I feel like I might have a longer vagina because no matter if it is low or high I always have to use my whole finger. It's always kind of in the same spot but when its high it is closer to the top and when its low it sits closer to the bottom. I feel like I need to draw a picture because its hard to describe. I think it is similar to OPK's in that you're never quite sure until you know for sure. I would definitely say checking it everyday helps because you get more familiar with the subtle changes. 

    also @josie12367 the cervix is usually compared to a penis so that makes sense. 
    *TW LC*
    Me & MH: 32
    DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU)
    TTC #2: 12/2019
    Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube
    Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN
    Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18

  • @darkstar42 I'm finally starting to learn my CP as well! It takes some time. I feel like the height of mine doesn't differ much throughout the cycle though. I can tell when it's a little bit higher during FW, but not by much. Every once in a while it will be really low during the luteal phase, but not very often. 
    @lurvleybunchococonuts I've seen that study before too and it just made me wonder WTF we're supposed to do if BBT is not reliable?! I hope someone chimes in with some good science to help us out. I wonder how sound that study is. Everything else I've seen seems to indicate that BBT is pretty trustworthy. I bet they just published that article to further confuse all of us since the TTC process is already so easy! :D
    *TW*
    Me: 31 | DH: 33
    DD1: 8/2014  <3
    TTC #2: 6/2017
    BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
    BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
    BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
    BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
    DD2: 10/2018  <3
  • @offtoneverland right? I hope someone smarter than me can give some insight lol. Maybe @fishsticks-n-custard will come back and explain it all? She's a doctor, so she knows everything... right?

    BFP 3/21/2020!  OMG We're having TWINS! 4/17/2020
    --------------------------------
    LO arrived 11/9/2018!  We have a baby!
    --------------------------------
    Me: 33 | DH: 41
    Married: March 2016
    TTC #1/IUD out January 2017
    PCOS dx January 2018
    Medicated cycle 2.5mg Letrozole CD3-7 February 2018
    BFP 3/10/2018! 
    -------------------------------

    TTGP December Siggy Co-Winner: Favorite Moments from Holiday Movies/TV 
    TTGP October Siggy Winner: Animals in Costume 



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