I see validity in both of your perspectives @anewadventure & @breezybee My opinion is, in addition to what you've mentioned, is its the TOTALLY wrong place to ask. The reason those women are on those boards is because they are not pregnant, and many of them do not have children, so they would have nothing to contribute in a way of experience to say "I did XYZ and had a girl/boy". The question would better be placed elsewhere.
@AMCsquared, you seem like a genuinely nice person. I know a few women like that who really can be happy for others with this struggle in their lives. For me, I probably am not as genuinely nice as you are (I try to be, I really do.) I was likely undiagnosed depressed for the better part of a year (something I can only acknowledge being on the other side.) When my SIL announced her pregnancy, and then proceeded to complain about how she LOOKED while pregnant, it was all I could do not to burst into tears right there. (She was unaware of the situation, in her defense.)
My point is, people are allowed to feel the way they feel. They need a place where it's okay to have these feelings publically. TTGP is a safe place for some people to experience their feelings of anger/sadness/bitterness, whatever. To tell people to "be nice" in spite of that, firstly they maybe just cannot anymore. How many days, months, years have some of them tried? And secondly, it's unfair.
I really don't think you and I are different in regards to "niceness"... I 100 percent have been there with that burn u describe with your SIL. I just don't think it's ok to be nasty to others as a result of that burn. Of course we have a right to our feelings. But was I nasty to people who achieved what I wanted? Idk. I hope not. I remember with another friend's news (I swear there were at least 10 CLOSE friend/family pregnancies in the last 2 years)... my husband just squeezed my knee under the table while we reacted appropriately in the moment.
Me: 31 DH: 32 DH since 12.2009 Married 08.2013 EDD 12.2017
I was not nasty, but I was not appropriate. I was fortunate that my SIL was the only one close to us who got pregnant during my struggles. But also about 5 women at work did. I literally could not speak to them unless I absolutely had to about work stuff. While I wasn't outwardly nasty, I'm sure they didn't appreciate my attitude.
For what its worth, I'm a MUCH nicer and happier person since I've had kids. You can ask literally anyone who worked with me 5 years ago and who still works with me now.
Now im interested. What exactly did u say to your sil? and how did she respond?
I'll give an extreme example. I have teen students who wind up pregnant alllll the time. It has killed me. But if i berated them... what would the point be? Who would benefit from that?
Me: 31 DH: 32 DH since 12.2009 Married 08.2013 EDD 12.2017
@amcsquared I get what you are saying. I really do. But to say that you experienced something and reacted THIS way, and someone else experience the same thing and reacted THAT way and were wrong, well, that's wrong. People are emotional creatures. It's great that you were able to receive your friends good news and react in an expected way, but not all people are the same. And I think it's pretty short sighted to expect everyone to perceive the world in the same way that you do.
@AMCsquared, I said nothing to my SIL. I left the room quietly and avoided talking to her the rest of the day. I cried to my husband later that day (he wasn't there because he was part of a wedding party...we were at a wedding.)
When I was in the second trimester with my son, I told my in-laws about the previous loss.
@flowerpower5838 YES! Just because we also talk about UOs and food and TV and whatever else doesn't mean The Bump isn't a science-based board. If you compare it with other boards, it's very apparent.
Also, the woman trying to have a girl got a lot of answers that were like, "There's no way to do that." Because science. Also she was 100% in the wrong and people were honest with her, not nasty. Maybe snarky, but that's everywhere on TB and still doesn't equal nasty in my opinion.
@flowerpower5838 I'm not saying people HAVE to act a certain way. I'm saying being MEAN is not nice.. even when you're hurting and hurting for a long time.
@NME44 your reaction sort of sounds like me and my sil. Sometimes that's what we have to do.
Me: 31 DH: 32 DH since 12.2009 Married 08.2013 EDD 12.2017
I'm not going to touch the post on TTGP, as I don't think it would shock anyone that I would side with the ladies of TTGP that their board was not the right place for that post (the 2nd or 3rd tri boards would have been much better place for that question).
But I will say that I think it's rude and inconsiderate to dictate how ANYONE responds to or feels about any situation they face. Especially when it comes to the challenges of TTGP. You never know what someone is going through or who is having a hard day. People don't wake up and say, "you know what, I'm going to be a bitch today because I can." Some people have the grace to respond to a difficult situation with a smile. And power to them. Others are at their wits end and respond with their gut feeling. And if that's the best they can muster with the hand they were dealt, then cut them a little slack. Because they are clearly dealing with some stuff and just trying to get by. You never know what anyone is going through until you've been in their shoes.
Yes, it's great when you can put on a smile and hold back the tears for others. Especially for those we love. Because we are happy for them, even if we're sad for ourselves. But if those who are having difficulty are expected to do that, I also think that those who have had an easier road also have an expectation to be a bit more considerate to those around them who are suffering. Being kind goes both ways.
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32 TTC Since 11/2015 #1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17
Yes, it's great when you can put on a smile and hold back the tears for others. Especially for those we love. Because we are happy for them, even if we're sad for ourselves. But if those who are having difficulty are expected to do that, I also think that those who have had an easier road also have an expectation to be a bit more considerate to those around them who are suffering. Being kind goes both ways.
Amen sister.
Someone that you care about snaps at you when you tell them your good news? Maybe instead of thinking they are mean and nasty, recognize that they are going through some shit and that you have to the better friend at that point in time. In my experience, friendships (and all relationships really) have ebbs and flows that require one party to be stronger or better or wiser, etc. I've been on both sides of it. If they are truly your friend, then you will know that it's not that they are not happy for you, but that they are sad/mad/whatever with their own situation.
Y'all are missing my point and i think i in fact mentioned a snapping reaction to which i was understanding of because i knew where it came from. I also think that feelings and responses are two totally different things. But again I'm not saying u need to also think that...
Me: 31 DH: 32 DH since 12.2009 Married 08.2013 EDD 12.2017
So you're saying that a group of multiple people that all took what you said the same way are missing the point? Perhaps maybe you didn't best express your point if that is the case?
ETA: what I mean is no one is missing your point - we don't agree with it. Those are two different things.
Nope again not what I said. U said I was short sighted bc I apparently think that all humans should do and act under what my opinion is. Where did I say that? Completely not what I wanted to express at all.
Me: 31 DH: 32 DH since 12.2009 Married 08.2013 EDD 12.2017
Y'all are missing my point and i think i in fact mentioned a snapping reaction to which i was understanding of because i knew where it came from. I also think that feelings and responses are two totally different things. But again I'm not saying u need to also think that...
So you're saying that a group of multiple people that all took what you said the same way are missing the point? Perhaps maybe you didn't best express your point if that is the case?
ETA: what I mean is no one is missing your point - we don't agree with it. Those are two different things.
Nope again not what I said. U said I was short sighted bc I apparently think that all humans should do and act under what my opinion is. Where did I say that? Completely not what I wanted to express at all.
****ETA the QFP and this - literally the above bolded is what you said. Me calling you short sighted is my opinion based on what you said. Again, various people ALL took what you said the same.exact.way. What is the likelihood that ALL of those people misunderstood you rather than maybe you didn't best express yourself?****
Look, I am not going to go through and quote every post you've left that has implied that because you think X, that all people should think X. Sure, you haven't come right out and said ALL PEOPLE SHOULD ALWAYS BE HAPPY FOR OTHERS NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH BECAUSE I WAS I DONT CARE WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH PUT ON A BRAVE FACE BECAUSE MY DH SQUEEZED MY KNEE AND I WAS FINE but you've implied it.
I haven't come out and said I disagree with just about everything you've posted on our BMB so far, but I know I have implied it, whether or not that was my intention.
Your perceived intent is what matters in life. Not your actual intent. If every user has perceived your message a certain way, perhaps it is time to look inward and adjust the language you use or situations that aren't applicable to the conversation to adjust your message to better match what you actually mean. This sounds a lot meaner than it's intended and for that I am sorry. But you have multiple women that all have taken the words that you put out there the same way. Our opinion of your words may not be what you wanted to express but it is what you expressed.
Also, whether or not it was your intent, you have compared women that seek a safe space for their feelings on TTGP and/or women that have a moment of weakness and react adversely to pregnancy announcements to you as a teacher berating teen pregnancy? Condescension much?
But do you understand the difference with audience? While I've not suffered with feritility issues, my loss history is quite lengthy and it's been a struggle. When someone on the street would talk to me about the struggles of being pregnant? I would grit my teeth and smile. After all, they had no way of knowing I was in the process of my 4th chemical pregnancy or that I had just lost my son in my 16th week. They didn't know.
But when I'm on a message board specifically for loss mamas and someone bops onto the board and asks us to interpret her pee stick? Well, damn, that's so insensitive and hurtful. And it becomes a lot harder to grit my teeth and smile. Because why do we have to always show grace when none is shown to us?
To me, these are two different scenarios that will get two different responses from me. And I suspect the TTGP'ers are somewhat similar in that regard.
I agree with @NME44. We only tried for 6 months before we got pregnant with DD, but I was so stressed out during those 6 months. The sight of pregnant women made me ragey and I almost skipped a friend's baby shower because I knew 3-4 pregnant people would be there. I was mostly still able to be happy for family/friends who were pregnant at that time, but when I had to interact with pregnant strangers I just felt mad at the universe. I can't imagine what I would have been like if we had been trying for years and/or I was on hormone treatments. I sometimes think the TTGP board gets a little crazy/takes things too far, but this particular post was totally tone-deaf, and the first few posts did actually try to be nice about it. It was just the wrong place for that question and really insensitive to post there.
As an aside, I just read an article today that a recent scientific study showed that women who ate more bananas before conception were slightly more likely to have boys. I think it also said higher calorie consumption in general pre-pregnancy was also correlated with boys, but the article was really focused on the bananas. Made me laugh.
Married May 2014 DD born August 2016 Baby #2 due December 2017
I think it all comes down to this: you can have expectations of how people should feel and/or react to things - that's fine. But be prepared to be disappointed because the world is a big, wide place with a lot of difference kind of people with their own set of emotions, feelings, reactions and expectations.
But if someone doesn't meet your decided expectations, you cannot imply that those feelings or reactions are wrong in any way, that they should change to meet your expectations, etc. I think that's what is missing in your responses - it seems (to me, just in my opinion) like you expect others to have the same response that you had or created in your mind in hindsight.
@amcsquared, this is not necessarily directed at you, but maybe more of a PSA: I am definitely a biased party in this conversation. **TW this is my 7th pregnancy in 4 years. I have one child. So yeah, I have had my fair share of bad TTCAL days where I have sucked it up and grinned and bared it, but also days when I couldn't go to a friend's shower because how TF am I supposed to grin and bare it? I empathize with women that are having difficulties getting or staying pregnant who feel like they have to grin and bare it when an insensitive friend aware of their struggles decided to tell them in person "OH HAI GUESS WHAT IM PREGGERZ!!" without giving them the space they may need to process that information and THEN follow up with an appropriate congrats. No, people should not get mad and take out their frustrations on their friends, but sometimes we just CANNOT control our visceral emotions. But why should we have to grin and bare it? Because our sadness makes others uncomfortable? This is the kind of thinking that perpetuates people feeling like they can't share their pregnancy losses - because of OTHER peoples comfort levels.
Calling a woman who is struggling to get pregnant bitter is the ultimate insult. I am happy for you that you are in the ignorance is bliss camp. It's nice there.
And you should consider checking out some other forums because they really are drive bys and googling and searching ultrasounds for penises for fun. You can get mad all you want that this forum isn't what you want it to be, but that won't change it for you.
Can I just say that I don't view any of you as mindless crap for entertainment? I am excited for what's to come down the road for all of you and glad I get to be a teeny tiny part of it. And while I enjoy the superficial threads as much as the next person, I'm glad most of you seem to value true, content-rich conversations as much as I do. I don't ever want to be a part of an echo chamber, but it is refreshing to be surrounded by so many like-minded, empathetic women.
@flowerpower5838 - I don't think of this board as mindless entertainment either. I look at it as a great opportunity to engage with women on a variety of topics related to TTGP, pregnancy, giving birth, and raising a child. I look to learn from others and see new perspectives. I won't always agree with every POV or perspective, but I think the dialogue is important to understand the world around us.
I enjoy that this board IS science based - even if it's not 100% science all the time. Yes, we talk about other "fun" topics, but I'm glad that when it comes medicine, it's more science than myth and folklore. I'm glad that when I began trying, The Bump articles and the TTGP board told me science behind trying to conceive so I had the power to actually put myself in the best position to get pregnant. They told me about temping (even if I didn't do it) and fertility; not "do this to have a boy/girl".
But that doesn't mean we can't have our fun talking about other topics to build a community, whether it be TV shows and movies or nursery theme ideas. It's about building that community of women who understand what you're going through (because they are too), supporting each other, and giving us the opportunity to learn from one another.
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32 TTC Since 11/2015 #1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17
As someone who has struggled with infertility and pregnancy loss I want to thank you all who were able to stand up for how tough that can Be. There are so many days when I wish I had a place like TTC and infertility forums to just feel my feels. I appreciate everyone's chiming in to say that sometimes people in TTC or other similar situations can maybe be cut a little slack to not always be poised and perfect. I appreciate you all @jlemons-2@flowerpower5838@Tennis11785@wabash15@thatlauragirl@NME44@cait5413
@AMCsquared you seem like a very nice person. I wonder if any of what they are saying resonates with you or kind of helps you see that perspective?
@NME44 I told Dh he was out of luck on the bananas correlation (I hate them and don't eat them unless it is in banana bread), but the calorie consumption thing might work out! (He wants a boy)
Married May 2014 DD born August 2016 Baby #2 due December 2017
Re: Randoms 6/26-7/2
My opinion is, in addition to what you've mentioned, is its the TOTALLY wrong place to ask. The reason those women are on those boards is because they are not pregnant, and many of them do not have children, so they would have nothing to contribute in a way of experience to say "I did XYZ and had a girl/boy". The question would better be placed elsewhere.
My point is, people are allowed to feel the way they feel. They need a place where it's okay to have these feelings publically. TTGP is a safe place for some people to experience their feelings of anger/sadness/bitterness, whatever. To tell people to "be nice" in spite of that, firstly they maybe just cannot anymore. How many days, months, years have some of them tried? And secondly, it's unfair.
For what its worth, I'm a MUCH nicer and happier person since I've had kids. You can ask literally anyone who worked with me 5 years ago and who still works with me now.
I'll give an extreme example. I have teen students who wind up pregnant alllll the time. It has killed me. But if i berated them... what would the point be? Who would benefit from that?
Me: 29 DH: 31
Married 10/13/12
TTC Since 8/2016
Me: 29 DH: 31
Married 10/13/12
TTC Since 8/2016
When I was in the second trimester with my son, I told my in-laws about the previous loss.
Also, the woman trying to have a girl got a lot of answers that were like, "There's no way to do that." Because science. Also she was 100% in the wrong and people were honest with her, not nasty. Maybe snarky, but that's everywhere on TB and still doesn't equal nasty in my opinion.
DD - 12/28/17
TTC #2 3/2019
BFP 5/2019 || MC - D&C 5/2019
BFP 2/2020 || EDD 10/10/2020
@NME44 your reaction sort of sounds like me and my sil. Sometimes that's what we have to do.
But I will say that I think it's rude and inconsiderate to dictate how ANYONE responds to or feels about any situation they face. Especially when it comes to the challenges of TTGP. You never know what someone is going through or who is having a hard day. People don't wake up and say, "you know what, I'm going to be a bitch today because I can." Some people have the grace to respond to a difficult situation with a smile. And power to them. Others are at their wits end and respond with their gut feeling. And if that's the best they can muster with the hand they were dealt, then cut them a little slack. Because they are clearly dealing with some stuff and just trying to get by. You never know what anyone is going through until you've been in their shoes.
Yes, it's great when you can put on a smile and hold back the tears for others. Especially for those we love. Because we are happy for them, even if we're sad for ourselves. But if those who are having difficulty are expected to do that, I also think that those who have had an easier road also have an expectation to be a bit more considerate to those around them who are suffering. Being kind goes both ways.
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32
TTC Since 11/2015
#1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17
Someone that you care about snaps at you when you tell them your good news? Maybe instead of thinking they are mean and nasty, recognize that they are going through some shit and that you have to the better friend at that point in time. In my experience, friendships (and all relationships really) have ebbs and flows that require one party to be stronger or better or wiser, etc. I've been on both sides of it. If they are truly your friend, then you will know that it's not that they are not happy for you, but that they are sad/mad/whatever with their own situation.
Me: 29 DH: 31
Married 10/13/12
TTC Since 8/2016
ETA: what I mean is no one is missing your point - we don't agree with it. Those are two different things.
Me: 29 DH: 31
Married 10/13/12
TTC Since 8/2016
Look, I am not going to go through and quote every post you've left that has implied that because you think X, that all people should think X. Sure, you haven't come right out and said ALL PEOPLE SHOULD ALWAYS BE HAPPY FOR OTHERS NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH BECAUSE I WAS I DONT CARE WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH PUT ON A BRAVE FACE BECAUSE MY DH SQUEEZED MY KNEE AND I WAS FINE but you've implied it.
I haven't come out and said I disagree with just about everything you've posted on our BMB so far, but I know I have implied it, whether or not that was my intention.
Your perceived intent is what matters in life. Not your actual intent. If every user has perceived your message a certain way, perhaps it is time to look inward and adjust the language you use or situations that aren't applicable to the conversation to adjust your message to better match what you actually mean. This sounds a lot meaner than it's intended and for that I am sorry. But you have multiple women that all have taken the words that you put out there the same way. Our opinion of your words may not be what you wanted to express but it is what you expressed.
Also, whether or not it was your intent, you have compared women that seek a safe space for their feelings on TTGP and/or women that have a moment of weakness and react adversely to pregnancy announcements to you as a teacher berating teen pregnancy? Condescension much?
Me: 29 DH: 31
Married 10/13/12
TTC Since 8/2016
But when I'm on a message board specifically for loss mamas and someone bops onto the board and asks us to interpret her pee stick? Well, damn, that's so insensitive and hurtful. And it becomes a lot harder to grit my teeth and smile. Because why do we have to always show grace when none is shown to us?
To me, these are two different scenarios that will get two different responses from me. And I suspect the TTGP'ers are somewhat similar in that regard.
ETA - this was directed toward @AMCsquared
Gavin - 8/27/10
*TW*
Gabriel - 2nd tri loss 5/17/16 Trisomy 18 & 21
Hope - 2nd tri loss 12/7/16 complications from pneumonia
As an aside, I just read an article today that a recent scientific study showed that women who ate more bananas before conception were slightly more likely to have boys. I think it also said higher calorie consumption in general pre-pregnancy was also correlated with boys, but the article was really focused on the bananas. Made me laugh.
Married May 2014
DD born August 2016
Baby #2 due December 2017
But if someone doesn't meet your decided expectations, you cannot imply that those feelings or reactions are wrong in any way, that they should change to meet your expectations, etc. I think that's what is missing in your responses - it seems (to me, just in my opinion) like you expect others to have the same response that you had or created in your mind in hindsight.
@amcsquared, this is not necessarily directed at you, but maybe more of a PSA: I am definitely a biased party in this conversation. **TW this is my 7th pregnancy in 4 years. I have one child. So yeah, I have had my fair share of bad TTCAL days where I have sucked it up and grinned and bared it, but also days when I couldn't go to a friend's shower because how TF am I supposed to grin and bare it? I empathize with women that are having difficulties getting or staying pregnant who feel like they have to grin and bare it when an insensitive friend aware of their struggles decided to tell them in person "OH HAI GUESS WHAT IM PREGGERZ!!" without giving them the space they may need to process that information and THEN follow up with an appropriate congrats. No, people should not get mad and take out their frustrations on their friends, but sometimes we just CANNOT control our visceral emotions. But why should we have to grin and bare it? Because our sadness makes others uncomfortable? This is the kind of thinking that perpetuates people feeling like they can't share their pregnancy losses - because of OTHER peoples comfort levels.
edited spelling
Me: 29 DH: 31
Married 10/13/12
TTC Since 8/2016
@cait5413, calorie consumption, eh? Guess I'm having a boy then
Diagnosed : unexplained infertility
6 rounds of IUI and a MC 2/2014, rainbow twins 4/2015
TTC #3 5/2016
Restarted Fertility tx
IUI 2 rounds, baby girl 12/17
Me: 29 DH: 31
Married 10/13/12
TTC Since 8/2016
I enjoy that this board IS science based - even if it's not 100% science all the time. Yes, we talk about other "fun" topics, but I'm glad that when it comes medicine, it's more science than myth and folklore. I'm glad that when I began trying, The Bump articles and the TTGP board told me science behind trying to conceive so I had the power to actually put myself in the best position to get pregnant. They told me about temping (even if I didn't do it) and fertility; not "do this to have a boy/girl".
But that doesn't mean we can't have our fun talking about other topics to build a community, whether it be TV shows and movies or nursery theme ideas. It's about building that community of women who understand what you're going through (because they are too), supporting each other, and giving us the opportunity to learn from one another.
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32
TTC Since 11/2015
#1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17
@AMCsquared you seem like a very nice person. I wonder if any of what they are saying resonates with you or kind of helps you see that perspective?
Married May 2014
DD born August 2016
Baby #2 due December 2017