UO Thursday 7/6

looeeze · July 2017

Let's hear what you've got.

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purplepelican · July 2017

OOOH I've got one. I think gender reveal parties are stupid, especially when like 80 people are invited. I mean they're just genitals. You want 80 people to come hear what kind of genitals your baby has? I mean I'll all about baby showers - I've been to many of them and have planned a few. I love "sip and sees" where you get to come and see the baby after it's born. But gender reveals feel like huge excuses to AW to me.

I was kind of annoyed by gender reveals before I discovered my IF issue, but I think that my attitude about them has hardened since finding out that I don't ovulate. The whole idea of separating people into "team blue" or "team pink" is now pretty repugnant to me because it's like you're setting people up to be disappointed about your baby. Like...I just want any baby. I'm now on team "yellow" and if I can ever get KU I don't want to know what gender the baby is.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

This weekend, my friend who is a pediatrician got drunk and had some lit opinions. I disagree with them, and IDK, I think because she's a doctor they've stuck with me more than maybe they should. Like, I'm reasonably bothered by their existence. Again, her opinions; not mine. (TW? mentions kids?)

1) anyone who drinks coconut water must also believe vaccines cause autism because tap water is exactly the same
2) anyone who writes a "birth plan" doesn't care about the wellbeing of their baby enough

petethecat · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 WTF? I mean, did she elaborate at all on #2? Because srsly WTF.

looeeze · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 Neither of those make even any sense just from a logical standpoint. What? Also, has she ever given birth?

purplepelican · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 Yeah I mean that just kind of assumes that anyone who has a birth plan wouldn't gladly throw the birth plan out the window if their baby was in danger and intervention was needed.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@kbamomma33 she actually rants about this sober quite often, but isn't quite as direct as she was this past weekend. Basically, she thinks doctors are the ones who are educated in how to keep mom and baby healthy, and anyone who is not a doctor should stay out of it. So, she's anti-doula, etc. She really rants the most about AMA moms who want to try natural child birth, which I'm not even sure if there's a reasonable connection there. IDK, I find it really frustrating because this conversation came on the heels of literally talking about how every doctor she knows has gotten into a car accident because of 24 hour shifts, etc., and I'm like..................but patients shouldn't advocate for themselves......?

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@looeeze no, of course not. I get that she probably has a skewed perspective because pediatricians are really only called in when the baby is in danger, but like... come on...

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@beanship right! And some hospitals require birth plans to be written - it's easier for them if doctors/nurses have to switch shifts, etc.

looeeze · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 FWIW, my boss just had a home birth. Her husband is a doctor. His experience as a resident in OBGYN, seeing how women get treated a lot of time (and not listened to), is why he was supportive of a home birth and a midwife. So there's another perspective if that makes you feel better!

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@looeeze yeah, I know a fair number of doctors who disagree with her, so I shouldn't let it get to me. Doctors are humans too.

lulu1180 · July 2017

doxiemoxie212 said:

kbamomma33 she actually rants about this sober quite often, but isn't quite as direct as she was this past weekend. Basically, she thinks doctors are the ones who are educated in how to keep mom and baby healthy, and anyone who is not a doctor should stay out of it. So, she's anti-doula, etc. She really rants the most about AMA moms who want to try natural child birth, which I'm not even sure if there's a reasonable connection there. IDK, I find it really frustrating because this conversation came on the heels of literally talking about how every doctor she knows has gotten into a car accident because of 24 hour shifts, etc., and I'm like..................but patients shouldn't advocate for themselves......?

I'm AMA and have considered trying natural child birth when the time comes. I'm not sure why AMA moms shouldn't try natural, I mean that just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever; I don't even know her I already know I don't like her!!

fishsticks-n-custard · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 I don't know about the coconut water thing, because, that doesn't even make physiologic sense. But whatever, *shrug*

But the birth plan thing is a REALLY common complaint among doctors (I'm in a facebook group of all women physicians who are moms and it comes up a lot, at least once a week.) But the nuance is that most of them don't mind a birth plan, they mind when mom's won't deviate from the birth plan even when the infant's life is actually in danger. (which happens a surprising amount if their stories are to be believed). That being said...

*TW* I wrote a birth plan with my previous pregnancy which basically was 1. Go natural as long as possible with help from my doula. 2. No episiotomies. (I was friends with my OB and told her, "You cut me and I cut you, bitch." (totally kidding of course). 3. You better have a damn good reason for giving me Pit. 4. Immediate skin to skin and delayed cord clamping (though FWIW, this is standard of care now. I just reiterated it.) Now the natural part went out the window because of my abruption and I wasn't a candidate for a home birth due to PIH. I think I was a little of a nightmare patient, but I don't care. I only advocated for things I felt were important for my health and my baby's health. In the end I think they listened to me more because of the MD after my name, but that's frustrating for a whole other reason.*end TW*

I feel like a lot of physician frustration with birth plans could be solved with better doctor-patient communication. Granted, I'm not OB or pediatrics, but when I have a patient that disagrees with my plan, usually if I explain why I think what I do, what evidence I'm working with and what specifically the benefits of what I'm doing are, I can usually convince people that I have their best interests at heart, or at the very least, understand why they want to do what they do. In the end that's all you can hope for because forcing treatment on a patient that doesn't want it is assault. This ain't the 1950s.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@lulu1180 I agree!

fishsticks-n-custard · July 2017

@lulu1180 yeah there's no medical reason why AMA can't go naturally. Often times they're the best candidates if they're multiparous But then, I think @doxiemoxie212 said she's a pediatrician, right? So she's out of her field there.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@fishsticks-n-custard 100% agree, especially about the patient-doctor communication thing, and that's super helpful perspective.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@lulu1180 @fishsticks-n-custard I think probably the reason she rants about AMA specifically is because women generally are more likely to advocate for themselves the older they are. So, I'd guess some of it is legit advocacy which seems annoying to physicians, and some of it is probably what you mentioned @fishsticks-n-custard where moms won't deviate from their birth plans in emergency situations.

lulu1180 · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 @fishsticks-n-custard I understand being aggravated with women who refuse to deviate from a birth plan, your child's health should come first, not your idea of a perfect delivery! That is a good point about AMA moms @doxiemoxie212. Honestly, I don't think I'll have a lot of problems trying a natural birth because my m/w is awesome and I'm pretty sure she'll do the best she can to meet my expectations as long as the child is healthy, that is.

icecubeinthedesert · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212, meanwhile, my SIL is a doctor and wants to pay for a doula for me (if I can ever stay KU)

doula-mama · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 Wow - I would have had so much trouble not engaging in that conversation!

@fishsticks-n-custard I agree - the communication is key. When I get KU, I fully intend to have a birth plan - but one that I've developed WITH my caregiver and that we BOTH agree with. Also, if the baby is ever in danger, I'd obviously defer to the doctor

fishsticks-n-custard · July 2017

@icecubeinthedesert @doxiemoxie212 I don't understand some physician's resistance to doulas. The evidence suggests women who work with a doula have improved birth outcomes. A relatively risk-free intervention with the potential for real benefits. Besides monetary issues, what's the downside?

*TW* I loved my doula and she was also a LC which was wonderful in the few weeks after giving birth. *end TW*

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@fishsticks-n-custard dude, I have no idea. She's sooooo against them. I guess she only ever hears them pushing back on the doctors? But like, unless mom or baby is going to die in the next 5 minutes unless something changes, what is wrong with answering some questions? I don't get it.

That said, I don't love strangers, so IDK how I'd feel about a doula personally - but I also don't think my mom or DH would be super helpful; they're both fairly panic prone. I wish I could clone myself! Is that weird? I think I would kick ass as my own doula! lol.

fishsticks-n-custard · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 Ugh, you think someone trained in science would know about selection bias. Of COURSE you only hear about the ones who are problems. You don't hear about the ones that support the woman and she has a better pregnancy and smooth delivery. That's why we have studies to look at outcomes.

I'm just surprised a pediatrician has that much experience with doulas. She must round on her own newborns in the hospital or does inpatient peds/PICU/NICU.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@fishsticks-n-custard she just finished residency, and she had to do quite a few NICU rotations. Her residency was at a children-specific hospital, I guess with some rotations at other venues, so I think she just sees a lot more "abnormal" scenarios than, you know, healthy, complication-free birth stuff.

jsnakehole · July 2017

I wouldn't have been able to keep my mouth shut, @doxiemoxie212. I think that decisions about birth are highly personal and not having a plan doesn't mean you don't care. I don't have much of a plan aside from 'get everyone out of there healthy.' And to play 'Monster Mash' like April Ludgate.

@beanship I actually want to have a reveal. I don't like it when people use it as an excuse to get more gifts. I just like the idea of having a party.

fishsticks-n-custard · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 Ah, actually that makes a lot of sense. She just graduated in the last couple of weeks? Your opinions right when you graduate residency usually reflect the views of those you trained under. After a few years out, they reflect your own critical appraisal of the evidence. There's as much learning your first year as an attending as there is your intern year, possibly more. Plus, I'm sure you're right. Training at a large children's hospital, those weren't normal births or kiddos. Those were people that warranted a referral to a tertiary care center.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@jsnakehole no no, she thought if you DO have a plan you don't care lol

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@fishsticks-n-custard yeah. She's not going to be an attending, though - she's going into private practice for general peds. So I'm worried her opinions won't change or grow, but I know she wants to have kids at some point, so maybe it will just take personal experience for her.

fishsticks-n-custard · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 Hm, well, you can still keep learning even in private practice. I worked with residents my first few years out and I found it incredibly helpful. They're smart and curious and push you to figure out why you practice the way you do and make improvements in that. I'm now at a community hospital, so no residents, but I still teach every day. We have nursing students so I go out of my way to over explain what I'm doing and what my thought process is. I show them cool ultrasounds or EKGs. Interesting CXR findings. They probably find me annoying in all honesty but that experience is as much about me as it is about them.

Hopefully she finds a way even in private practice to keep the intellectual curiosity going.

*TW* I'll preface this by saying that I'm not trying to imply this is the only way to have this realization, it's just been my personal experience. Being pregnant, almost dying in childbirth and raising a child has made me a much better physician than I was before. 1. I realized everyone is someone's baby. Someone once held that person in their arms as an infant and looked on them with love. Even if it was only the delivery room nurse. That perspective helps you see the person in front of you for who they truly are. 2. Being a patient is an incredibly vulnerable thing. You're putting your life in someone else's hands. As a physician you need to take that responsibility and perspective seriously. I hope once she has kids she maybe gains some perspective that women's views about childbirth aren't an oppositional thing, it reflects their realization of how vulnerable their position is in the physician-patient relationship. And doctors need to have empathy for that and meet those perspective with respect and compassion. *end TW*

Ok. I'll stop ranting now. Just hit a nerve with me.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@fishsticks-n-custard you sound like a very excellent doctor!

jsnakehole · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 ah, I misread.

My opinion that you should have a plan of what you'd like to happen, but be open to changing as per advice of your healthcare professional.

izza2 · July 2017

Totally cool with gender reveals if there's food involved. Lots of food. And no presents, because that's grabby.

Then again I'm on CD2 And want all the food, so.

tamalahoops · July 2017

I'm team emphatically NO to gender reveals. Nothing makes me care less about someone's pregnancy than them endlessly hyping the sex of their baby.

jrm_14 · July 2017

Gender reveals grate my nerves. Mostly because of the term gender vs sex, and as @beanshipsaid, it's just kind of awkward to have a party to say, "My baby has a penis/vagina!" However, I don't really super side eye people who want to have them. I went to one that was the baby shower, so it wasn't 2 separate gift occasions.

ETA: A nearby reputable hospital has a low-intervention birthing unit that encourages low-risk nothers to have a "more natural" birthing experience, bring their own doula, utilize the m/w on staff, also while utilizing their regular OB.

JennyColada · July 2017

My bff's MIL threw her a gender reveal party for mostly just family (I think it was just me and 1 other friend that were invited). It was sweet, because my bff cried when she found out she was having a girl, so that was a nice moment. But I was also kinda "meh" about the whole thing. I don't really care if it's a boy or a girl.

When I get KU, I would kind of like to keep everything neutral (I would like to find out the sex though!) and just put some small touches of pink/blue at the baby shower. I read on one of the BMBs that people were more likely to gift "useful" items from the registry if they didn't know the baby's sex, which I thought was actually a good idea. But I also don't feel the need to pretend that I'm team green for the entire pregnancy.

pebbledam · July 2017

@JennyColada - I'm with you. Assuming I ever get KU, I will want to know the sex, but I'm not telling anyone. My primary reason for wanting to keep it a secret is that my MIL has mentioned that she really wants a granddaughter and I get the feeling that she would go totally overboard on the pink and frilly. Plus, people say really sexist things even before the baby is born and I'd like to keep my blood pressure down.

My UO is that I don't think it's a big deal for boy and girl siblings to share a bedroom when they are young.

lurvleybunchococonuts · July 2017

If I ever get lady I'm gonna be team green all the way! I think it'd be a fun suprise

becausescience · July 2017

RE: Sex Reveals - eh to each their own. It is not my style, but I get wanting to celebrate every milestone. But some parents need to realize other's don't really care about their baby's sex. I've actually never been to one, so this view could change.

@JennyColada Yes to keep everything more neutral. And then you can hopefully reuse for siblings. And also I strongly dislike super girly pink princess anything. Ugh.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

I don't think I would want a gender reveal party (I don't know anyone who has had one, so I can't imagine anyone would even offer?), but I think I would want the doctor to put the sex results in an envelope. I'd really like to do a photo shoot just the two of us so I could capture DH's reaction when he finds out. He's so emotive, and I'm almost certain he'd cry. I think it would be funny/cute.

becausescience · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 I actually do think it is really cute to have a mini-reveal for the parents-to-be, so I like your idea.

50Wife · July 2017

I fully plan on doing everything you see on Pinterest if/when I get pregnant. It'll be my second and last and I did my time trying to get pregnant both times so I'm doing it alllllll
Announcement pictures with my son? Yes!
Maternity pics? Obvs
Gender reveal (with only immediate family)? Fuck yea!

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