Circumcision - Page 2 — The Bump
November 2017 Moms

Circumcision

2

Re: Circumcision

  • For me, this is a decision I would leave to DH. Where I am from it is very common to be circumcised and rare not to be. I definitely can understand why it is done and after reading all the stories about infections and getting it done later in life that makes my opinion lean that way. I can also understand why people choose not to do it.
    123growingtogether
  • @cottingham3. Thank you!  Circumcision was a hot topic in my Dec 15 group.  The gals that weren't religious were judged pretty harshly for having it done purely for aesthetics.  It's nice to not have to feel immediately defensive for your parenting decisions. 
    sarahdxoxoxo
  • I just want to jump in and say that explaining you don't see religion as a valid argument is a pretty bold statement. If you're not religious then sure, it may not be valid for you but for those who are I think that's pretty rude to say. You can just leave it at you don't agree with it, no need to pull in others beliefs. I would never turn around and say you must circumcise because I believe that's the only right thing to do. Because thats also wrong and offensive. 
    This. 

    For those who aren't religious, religious reasons are never a good reason to do/not do something. That's fine for them. But it's not okay to judge. 

    Even though I will not be choosing to circumcise, I found that hurtful. 
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  • I'm undecided. BF is Jewish and would prefer to circumcise. I have issues with the lack of consent. My talking point to him has been that it's permanent, whereas if we leave it be, he can choose to have it done later in life. I think circumcision is more common in America than elsewhere, and I don't want to cut my perfect babies just because it's locally in fashion. I totally hear the hygiene arguments and risk of infection. That, and BF's feelings, are why I'm undecided.

    There are also horror stories about circumcision gone wrong. I suspect the actual rate of adverse effects for both cut and uncut are low. 
  • NYTino24NYTino24 member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited April 2017
    I have left it up to DH if we have a boy. I have heard of others having some issues with it being done wrong or having complications / pain when done later in life and that does concern me. One guy we know wants his kid to have it done despite him having a slightly botched one done as a newborn. Apparently you can't tell when it isn't erect, but there is a curve when it's up. I had a student who had it done at age 9 (not sure why) and he was out of school for several days. He also could not participate in gym or recess for several days because he was in too much pain.

    That being said, I can see all sides to this debate. I don't think it's fair to judge others and say something like, "It's okay / not okay to do it for ___ reasons and okay / not okay if ___." No one takes this very personal decision lightly.
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  •  For me ( in my own thinking) there isn't a difference between male and female circumcision because CONSENT.  And both types have their histories in ancient rites and religions way before "health benefits" of male circ became known. Every other difference aside.....consent is my number one thought here. If my sons want to be circ'd when older, that is up them. 
    foxaírtbklynchica
  • I just wanted to comment because I saw someone else said that they weren't able to get their son circ'd in the NICU. My son was able to have the procedure done while in the NICU shortly before he was being discharged. He was a full sized baby even though he was 4 weeks early (7 pounds 2 ounces) and only had breathing issues so once that was resolved they were able to go ahead with it.

    i waffled on the idea beforehand but deferred to my husband in the end since I really don't know anything about being circumsized or not. I understand arguments both ways but I am (in the end) happy we got it done for DS and will do so again if this one is a boy. My son hardly seemed bothered by the whole thing at all. Also, he is diagnosed with autism and it has been much easier not having to deal with the hygiene down there as much since he fights us at every turn when it comes to washing and changing. 
    NYTino24bcashaw
  • @jka427 both of my boys were cirumsized in two different NICUs. My oldest was born at 37 weeks and the nicu peds dr did his. My youngest was at 26 weeks and was almost 3 months when cut but an OB performed it...not a NICU doc. So, NICU policies must vary.
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  • If this one is a boy we will circumcise. It's cultural for my husband and I'm okay with it. Living in Botswana for the last decade and it not being common there gave me a chance to see the other side. Most of my friends opted to do it around 26-30years and said it was extremely painful. Now in schools they teach about it in junior high and then when a boy is 13 he can choose to have it done but misses about a week of school. 
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  • Like my earlier comment finding the whole topic interesting to read different perspectives . Being from a country where it isn't the norm 
    I also find it interesting g how many people leave the final say to one parent or another based on gender . Like I don't have one so my husband gets final say as if the lack of penis (as throughout history) can veto a woman's opinion . Same with naming . "We are having a boy so husband gets final say ." Having a girl so I get to pick the name . 
    All the social querks and traditions or decisions are so curious 
    Personally I feel in no way being a woman makes my opinion on it less than my husband's and if we did disagree on it (like with most things) wed have to discuss it and take the path that the discussion led to .gender wouldn't automatically pull weight like he doesn't just get to pull the penis card . For eg if parent 1 wanted it done and parent 2 didn't  the nature of the procedure and it's Permian modification would probably arrive us at not doing it and letting the person whose foreskin it is decide the final call later since it can still be done but not undone . While parent 1 would have the opportunity to educate them on the reasons for getting it done. 

    As far as hygiene goes in supprised its such an apparent "fact" amung peoples perseption I don't think it's an issue just normal hygiene applies I've never known foreskin to cause any problems and those it does cause would come under medical reason and I am cool with that . Like the example of a tight foreskin causing problems in time and adulthood and with function . This is a sound medical reason . I am aware lots of you have examples of infection and such I wonder if this is a regional problem health care system issue hygiene practice or cultural thing . As like I've mentioned it isn't a natural concideration or topic in Australia 
    Here you just bath children daily the water is enough to clean it and you don't need to pull it back it's something they explore them self once it is retractable  (shouldn't force it to as early it's attached) boys learn to keep it out of the way when urinating and to clean it in the shower and to dry properly . 

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  • We used a pediatric urologist for ours since we did a birth center birth so it obviously wasn't offfered there. If we choose to do it again (if this one is a boy) we'll do the same. They were fantastic with me as a scared new mom and with DS as well. And I felt a certain measure of confidence knowing that they specialize in that kind of thing. 
    123growingtogether
  • I think the point was less that people didn't know how to care for them but more with so many people choosing circumcision for "hygiene " reasons may not realise that foreskin requires no additional care and therefore no "struggle" (unless medical reason) 
    Where as circumcision does at least in the healing process if cleanliness and ease of care is what is desired not circumcising would probably be the easiest with an unexposed and naturally protected glands . The only care needed is the same bathing you would give your baby and teach your child . 

    There are of cause other reasons but some people concidering it for care reasons alone may like to know it is no a necessity

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  • ss145ss145 member
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    @foxaírt agreed- it's kind of interesting seeing people discuss 'in the locker room' and 'more and more are uncircumcised these days'. Being from Aus, it's not the norm so it makes me intrigued by the rest of the world!
    foxaírt
  • bklynchicabklynchica member
    500 Love Its 100 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited April 2017
    As a FTM with no brothers and almost all partners having been circumcised, I'd have no idea how to clean it. Appreciated that excerpt.
    silvergreenfoxaírtsarahdxoxoxo
  • I also appreciate the excerpt @kalenp because I would have no idea. Even though my son is Circ it still is interesting to me. However, I have to wonder if there is slightly more to it due to the amount of infections people know about simply in this group. That makes it seem like you don't really have to do anything apart from taking regular baths?

    @c+mpeachey I can respect your reasoning due to the word consent.

    for me, I feel that there a certain things that parents don't ask for consent for because we are the parents and we are there to guide our children.

    Ear piercing (some parents do it to their babies, j would choose to wait.) 

    circumcision

    baptism/religious ceremonies

    vaccinations 

    choice of schooling 

    method of parenting (attachment parenting vs. other methods)

    All of these can have big impacts on kids and how they are, how they grow up... so I feel as parents, we are licensed to give consent for some items before the kids are old enough to.

    I think most boys (if they would choose a circ) would rather have it done as an infant when they aren't running around anyway and won't remember than as an older child or adult. So if you don't give a circ, that may naturally deter your child from choosing an elective surgery. Therefore, you're kind of giving your "consent" to not circ. How many men choose to have a circ if they aren't experiencing an infection, due to the pain they'd go through?

    I highly respect your opinion and reasoning and appreciate the respectful dialogue we are able to have about this topic. :)

    ideamainlinebcashawdragonfly87-2TheLovingWife
  • My DS is circumcised and we would have done it again if this one had been a boy. DH is as well.  I don't know if it's a regional thing, but most people around here do circumcise. I think it's a family's personal desicion and there is no right or wrong. I certainly did not mutilate my son and find any reference to that offensive. I will say that if you plan to circumcise and your son ends up in the NICU, they will not do it in the hospital. We had to have it done as an out patient procedure a few weeks later.  
    My son was in the NICU for 5 days and they did it the day he was being released. 
    123growingtogether
  • I guess different hospitals have different policies...I should have said they may not do it.  My hospital absolutely would not if the baby went to the NICU, and that was completely unexpected and threw us a curve ball.  
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  • We decided against it because one of our nephews had a very badly botched circumcision and had to have it done twice and had infections etc. Just super traumatic for them and wasn't necessary. So my bil kinda helped talk us out if it. Plus only 50% of boys get circumcized nowadays in the US so it's not like it will be odd that he isn't. It hasn't been hard to keep clean or anything from our experience. There really is no right answer, just do what you and your partner feel best about! 
    bklynchicasilvergreen
  • In regards to the 50% percent statistic, that depends highly on your community. In some areas, there are way more than 50% circumcisons and in some areas, way fewer. Depends on the population of people in your community. That being said, doing something because the majority of people do it, to me, isn't really a great reason for doing it.
    foxaírtbklynchica123growingtogether
  • I like how you have presented this thought . However I do wonder is it a form of consent to not modify a body . That is consent  to not circ.  As in leaving the body as it formed ? And why it (concent) is a point to some 

    I would think in regards to elective surgery more adults would choose it if there were benefits that outweighed the potential for short term pain and discomfort 
    cmessamore
  • silvergreensilvergreen member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited May 2017
    Absolutely agree about the elective surgery. There's a lot of scary anecdotal stories about infection and complications, but they don't make up the majority. 95% of males are able to retract their foreskin with no difficulties by adulthood. You don't hear about the males that never have issues because, well, there is no issue to be voiced. My little brother is uncircumcised. He just turned 20 and has never had a problem.

    I would have to respectfully disagree with your other argument (I realize you probably propose it just for argument's sake), as there is nothing inherently wrong/unclean/dangerous about having foreskin. Its evolutionary purpose is to protect the glans (head of the penis) from keratinization (hardening of the skin), which is shown to be abrasive to the vagina.
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    bklynchica
  • Of course, you are obligated to make permanent decisions that protect the health of your children without their consent - but does circumcision really fall into that category? It just amazes me the amount of misinformation out there that is bordering on scare tactics, making it difficult for parents to make informed decisions. The fact that foreskin restoration surgery exists says a lot.

    This article may be of interest: Denmark Doctors Declare Circumcision Of Healthy Boys ‘Ethically Unacceptable’

    Key points of the article if you don't want to read the whole thing (sorry, there's a lot):

    • According to a nationally representative poll from the summer of 2016, 87 percent of Danes favor a legal ban on non-therapeutic circumcision of boys under the age of 18 years.
    • It is considered an operation seriously and patently at odds with the Hippocratic oath (”first do no harm”) and one that is in conflict with a variety of international conventions, most notably the U.N. Declaration of the Rights of the Child.
    • Amputation of healthy infant foreskins constitutes the single most common surgical procedure in the United States ― a several hundred million dollars a year industry.
    • Not one medical association in the whole world recommends circumcision of healthy boys
    • Of course, occasional intact men will encounter penile problems during their lifetime, just like people with natural teeth or appendices may develop cavities or appendicitis at some point later on.
    • No individual too young to provide informed consent to elective surgery should be subjected to an irreversible procedure that is painful, comes with risks, alters a natural, functional body part, has no relevant health benefits during childhood, causes pathological narrowing of the urethral opening in 5-20 percent of boys, and – as stated by the Danish Medical Association – is ethically unacceptable.
    • Indeed, a study published in Pediatrics in 2016 documented that only around one in 200 intact boys will develop a medical condition necessitating a circumcision before the age of 18 years. In other words, the chance is around 99.5 percent that a newborn boy can retain his valuable foreskin throughout infancy, childhood, and adolescence and enter adulthood with an intact penis. Simple information like this should urge parents to abstain from unnecessary infant surgery and let their sons decide for themselves about the size, sensitivity, functionality and appearance of their manhoods once they get old enough to understand the consequences.
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  • If you view circumcision as medically beneficial, then of course you won't see consent as an issue. I view it as a permanent cosmetic surgery. That is why consent matters to me. 
    silvergreenfoxaírt
  • Maybe look up the author before discrediting the source.
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  • adiratadirat member
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    @kissthesky32 Here you go. 


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  • So I post an article written by a Danish epidemiologist on the Danish medical community coming together to give a consensus on male circumcision, and you ask for peer-reviewed science? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm sensing an urgency to belittle thoughts or opinions that don't align with your own.

    I would never want someone else to make choices about my own body (as women I'm sure somehow we can all relate), and so I would never infringe on any individual's freedom to choose for themselves, including my children, where medically unnecessary.
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    bklynchica
  • @dragonfly87-2 Thank you for your honesty, and I appreciate your feedback.

    I actually didn't intend to post a scientific study, although I understand its value here. I figured that the news article spoke for itself, as I can only assume the Danish medical community came to their conclusion based on plenty of peer-reviewed studies. It has been reported elsewhere such as in The NY Times, the Independent, Business Insider, etc.

    I do believe the author has his bias, but he has also done his own studies on sexual health, so can't be sure which came first. ;)
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  • silvergreen I understand and I don't believe you had ill intent. As someone who majored in science (nueroscience), I developed an appreciation for understanding scientific studies and how to decipher out what is quality and what is bunk findings. But it isn't always easy.

    Also, popular journals and newspapers (like the ones you mentioned) are notorious for reading the abstract of a scientific study and summarizing the findings or coming up with their own conclusions to create "lay people" interpretations of science. It seems quick, easy to digest and easy to disseminate. But it really can cause more harm than good. 

    The best thing to do is to always question the source and credibility of the information you read, especially when it is related to science or medicine. If they can't back it with a peer reviewed study from a credible source...just treat it as questionable information and if nothing else, try not to perpetuate it since you can't be certain it is accurate.
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  • QTAMum3QTAMum3 member
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    We have 2 circumcised boys and if this baby is a boy, he will be too. 
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