I voted other because I consider myself more of a "humanist" if there is such a thing. I'm for everyone's rights (including animals). While, yes, I definitely do support equality for women and we still have a ways to go. But I just don't like what the term "feminist" has become. And I don't like that some women will throw the feminist card around because their date opened the car door for them or because he paid for her dinner. I think those are insignificant points to get so upset about. Dude's just being nice. But when it comes to issues like equal pay and maternity leave, yes, i totally support those!!
Wait, if I get a feminist card men will start paying for everything and opening all my doors? Where can I get one? Is it super hard to get like a black AmEx??
Seriously, the whole feminists won't let people hold the door for them thing is one of those myths that gives the word a bad name. I hang out with many politically ACTIVE feminists, and none of them are like that. It's just not a thing.
I've literally never seen a woman complain about a man buying her dinner, except in situations where the man then assumed that buying dinner bought them tit-for-tat access to sex. If that happens to a woman often enough, yeah, I can understand why they'd refuse offers to have dinner bought for them. But that's why we need feminism, to teach boys who grow up to be men.
I voted other because I consider myself more of a "humanist" if there is such a thing. I'm for everyone's rights (including animals). While, yes, I definitely do support equality for women and we still have a ways to go. But I just don't like what the term "feminist" has become. And I don't like that some women will throw the feminist card around because their date opened the car door for them or because he paid for her dinner. I think those are insignificant points to get so upset about. Dude's just being nice. But when it comes to issues like equal pay and maternity leave, yes, i totally support those!!
And here's the negative connotation y'all were discussing earlier.
I have heard 2 women say at different times and places that they are feminists while using examples of a man holding open a door for them, and a man giving up their seat for a woman. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous, but they are both very strongly opinionated, passionate, people who believe anything a man can do, they can too. To them they feel it's special treatment. I realize there is a lot more to it, but the problem is that some women actually act like that and can cause the term to seem negative. It seemed to me like afkash possibly ran into women similar to the 2 I know, and was saying she dididn't back up their feelings?
I consider myself a feminist but am not really wrapped up in the title itself. I'm going to fight for what I believe in regardless of being titled a certain way, and no matter what someone may think of me because of it.
That being said, within my own marriage we've sort of taken to stereotypical gender roles without meaning to or planning it either way. It's what works for us given our individual strengths and weaknesses, but if someone were to tell me that's what was expected of me I'd consciously do the opposite out of spite
There is nothing negative about feminism. Period. If you benefit at all from the fact that you can vote, own property, work, get a divorce, that sexual harassment and marital rape are crimes, that you have access to contraception, etc. then you owe a debt of gratitude to the early feminist movement. If there are women that you know or hear saying they are a feminist and that's why they don't want their door held for them, then they do not understand what feminism is, and that kind of ignorance shouldn't inform your own stance on the issue.
If you guys are raising your daughters to believe that men and women are equal and deserve the same rights that makes you an active feminist. I mean really just having the belief and living your life believing you deserve equality makes you a feminist but raising your kids that way makes you pretty damn active
If these are the qualities that determine a feminist, then my Dad was the best feminist I've ever known... because he surely raised me to kick butt and be on an equal playing field with boys.
However, I voted no similar to PP, because I believe in our equality but I'm not actively lobbying, nor is it a term I regularly use. I also feel like there can be a negative reaction to "feminism" as a term, so I tend to broach equality topics without that term. IE, yes women should earn the same as men for the same job, period.
I voted and ran earlier today. I voted no because I'm not actively doing anything to advance rights (I'm not super political that way either). I see I'be received benefits from feminists' actions and believe men & women are equals. I agree that while the term feminists isn't negative, a negative association has been made with the term. I like having doors opened for me or the man buying dinner (and agree it's not a contract for sex).
I suppose the tl:dr version is: I haven't spent the time to do well-rounded research on the term and I probably should, after seeing everyone's responses.
I wouldn't switch my vote just yet as I haven't refined my definition, but I can see my definition definitely needs revising.
I'm late to the discussion. I'm always late! I can't wait until the holidays are over and i can can breathe again. But this time, it's probably for the best-- other people here have already expressed my feelings about feminism better than I ever could. There are some wonderfully smart, badass feminist bishes here. I think I'm a little turned on, actually.
I definitely don't think that personal involvement in political activism is required to be a feminist. It's more about how you live your life and your personal beliefs. Stop me if your book disagrees with that @PerraSucia.
@Xstatic3333 I agree with you 100%. This thread has been illuminating to me in so many ways. People clearly don't think of the term with the same defining characteristics and that seems to be what's causing a disconnect.
Totally @homemake! I'm pretty sure we'd all agree on the issues (probable exception of the reproductive rights issues with religious connections) but the term seems to be even more loaded than I realized. I would love to see it broadened in a way that moves beyond the current stereotypes.
I am so late to this thread, but I'll throw in my quick two cents, anyway. I voted yes, without hesitation. I was surprised by a lot of this conversation, especially the notion that women already have enough/equal rights. Even setting aside a debate about whether or not that's true, I'm with @Gretchypoo in that equality is about more than equal legal rights; it's about how women are viewed/treated. I still struggle to be taken seriously as a woman in male-dominated departments at my workplace, as I know many of us do.
There is nothing negative about feminism. Period. If you benefit at all from the fact that you can vote, own property, work, get a divorce, that sexual harassment and marital rape are crimes, that you have access to contraception, etc. then you owe a debt of gratitude to the early feminist movement. If there are women that you know or hear saying they are a feminist and that's why they don't want their door held for them, then they do not understand what feminism is, and that kind of ignorance shouldn't inform your own stance on the issue.
Whatever the connotations are, there is nothing negative about equality. I'm also pretty sure that early feminists dealt with a lot of "negative connotations" and fought like hell, anyway. If you don't feel the need to call yourself a feminist, I'd ask you to consider if that makes you lucky--that you can comfortably set aside a label that is responsible for many of the rights you enjoy today (that many other women are still fighting for). And especially under this current administration, I think it behooves us to consider how easily all the progress we've made could be taken away.
I am proud to know all the smart, intersting women in this group!
Me: 34 Husband: 35 Married: June 2007
Son Max born 1/10/17 BFP #2: 10/5/17; EDD: 6/11/18
I was fortunate to grow up in a country and raised by parents who embraced these ideals. Education, freedom of speech, ability to choose whom I date/marry, sports,no restriction on my career path ect. Working in a male dominated field - in a male dominated office "I can be both one of the guys" and they can still open the door for me...
My daughters will be raised to know that they can be both the princess that need saving and the warrior who does the saving. It does not need to be either or.
+1 A Feminist does not have to be politically active currently to hold on to those ideals.
+1 Humanism is a belief structure- that's not what it means really. There is a great atheist blog on FB that feautures humanism ideals/ articles. Always a positive read to get you thinking.
A point I didn't see mentioned is that Men can be feminists too. Maybe because they don't generally use the term. Nothing has shaped my husbands beliefs on the need for feminism quite as strongly as fatherhood to girls.
I have an example of how feminism is a larger fight than just equality.
Over the holidays I heard my father and brother-in-law make some very questionable statements. And these are men that I know believe women should be equal from a legal standpoint (wages, rights, etc)
When my mother was pregnant with me apparently my father didn't like to see her bare pregnant belly. It grossed him out.
When my SIL was delivering my nephew, my BIL didn't want to see anything happening "down there." He didn't want to see the things he thought of as sexual in a scientific way.
This is a problem. Both these men whom I love and respect feel that women's bodies are objects for their pleasure, fully missing the point of the awesome life creating aspects that have given them children.
Having you and your person not be viewed as an object for the pleasure and consumption of men is a big feminist fight. One I plan on teaching my son early on.
Thankfully my husband feels the same as I do. And also saw a big problem with both my father and his brother.
Me: 36, H: 37 FTM, 2 Furbabies married 03/17/07 lived in Houston, Austin, Los Angeles and NYC due: 2/15/17
My example: My H believes in equal rights for women and loves that he married a strong, intelligent woman. But he and I were watching Michael Che's stand up on Netflix and Che was saying that he doesn't want daughters or gay sons bc he doesn't want a dick to penetrate his kid. Che said was being accused of being homophobic for that comment. I told H that it wasn't homophobic. It was sexist. H didn't understand why I thought that and I was really struggling to explain why (pregnancy brain=trouble finding words.) But to me, this is a small example of why we need feminism. Michael Che can go on a huge rant about how racism isn't funny and then say 30 sexist things and no one says sh*t.
@Xstatic3333 I'm reading "how to be a woman" by Caitlin Moran and disagree with her on a bunch of points anyway.
@Gretchypoo one of my coworkers recently called someone a pussy and then was like "oh that's not PC I mean the vagina" and I told him my vagina could take WAY more of a beating than his dick could
Re: Do you consider yourself a feminist?
While, yes, I definitely do support equality for women and we still have a ways to go. But I just don't like what the term "feminist" has become.
And I don't like that some women will throw the feminist card around because their date opened the car door for them or because he paid for her dinner. I think those are insignificant points to get so upset about. Dude's just being nice.
But when it comes to issues like equal pay and maternity leave, yes, i totally support those!!
Where can I get one?
Is it super hard to get like a black AmEx??
Also, humanism is an actual thing, but not the thing that you're trying to call it.
That being said, within my own marriage we've sort of taken to stereotypical gender roles without meaning to or planning it either way. It's what works for us given our individual strengths and weaknesses, but if someone were to tell me that's what was expected of me I'd consciously do the opposite out of spite
However, I voted no similar to PP, because I believe in our equality but I'm not actively lobbying, nor is it a term I regularly use. I also feel like there can be a negative reaction to "feminism" as a term, so I tend to broach equality topics without that term. IE, yes women should earn the same as men for the same job, period.
I suppose the tl:dr version is: I haven't spent the time to do well-rounded research on the term and I probably should, after seeing everyone's responses.
I wouldn't switch my vote just yet as I haven't refined my definition, but I can see my definition definitely needs revising.
involvement in political activism is required to be a feminist. It's more about how you live your life and your personal beliefs. Stop me if your book disagrees with that @PerraSucia.
https://www.littlethings.com/we-must-saying-boys-will-be-boys/?utm_source=LTcom&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=NVcomment
Married to my Soul Mate since 09/06/09
And also, ALL OF THIS:
Whatever the connotations are, there is nothing negative about equality. I'm also pretty sure that early feminists dealt with a lot of "negative connotations" and fought like hell, anyway. If you don't feel the need to call yourself a feminist, I'd ask you to consider if that makes you lucky--that you can comfortably set aside a label that is responsible for many of the rights you enjoy today (that many other women are still fighting for). And especially under this current administration, I think it behooves us to consider how easily all the progress we've made could be taken away.
I am proud to know all the smart, intersting women in this group!
Husband: 35
Married: June 2007
Son Max born 1/10/17
BFP #2: 10/5/17; EDD: 6/11/18
I was fortunate to grow up in a country and raised by parents who embraced these ideals. Education, freedom of speech, ability to choose whom I date/marry, sports,no restriction on my career path ect. Working in a male dominated field - in a male dominated office "I can be both one of the guys" and they can still open the door for me...
My daughters will be raised to know that they can be both the princess that need saving and the warrior who does the saving. It does not need to be either or.
+1 A Feminist does not have to be politically active currently to hold on to those ideals.
+1 Humanism is a belief structure- that's not what it means really. There is a great atheist blog on FB that feautures humanism ideals/ articles. Always a positive read to get you thinking.
A point I didn't see mentioned is that Men can be feminists too. Maybe because they don't generally use the term. Nothing has shaped my husbands beliefs on the need for feminism quite as strongly as fatherhood to girls.
Over the holidays I heard my father and brother-in-law make some very questionable statements. And these are men that I know believe women should be equal from a legal standpoint (wages, rights, etc)
When my mother was pregnant with me apparently my father didn't like to see her bare pregnant belly. It grossed him out.
When my SIL was delivering my nephew, my BIL didn't want to see anything happening "down there." He didn't want to see the things he thought of as sexual in a scientific way.
This is a problem. Both these men whom I love and respect feel that women's bodies are objects for their pleasure, fully missing the point of the awesome life creating aspects that have given them children.
Having you and your person not be viewed as an object for the pleasure and consumption of men is a big feminist fight. One I plan on teaching my son early on.
Thankfully my husband feels the same as I do. And also saw a big problem with both my father and his brother.
FTM, 2 Furbabies
married 03/17/07
lived in Houston, Austin, Los Angeles and NYC
due: 2/15/17
My example: My H believes in equal rights for women and loves that he married a strong, intelligent woman. But he and I were watching Michael Che's stand up on Netflix and Che was saying that he doesn't want daughters or gay sons bc he doesn't want a dick to penetrate his kid. Che said was being accused of being homophobic for that comment. I told H that it wasn't homophobic. It was sexist. H didn't understand why I thought that and I was really struggling to explain why (pregnancy brain=trouble finding words.) But to me, this is a small example of why we need feminism. Michael Che can go on a huge rant about how racism isn't funny and then say 30 sexist things and no one says sh*t.
FTM, 2 Furbabies
married 03/17/07
lived in Houston, Austin, Los Angeles and NYC
due: 2/15/17
@Xstatic3333 I'm reading "how to be a woman" by Caitlin Moran and disagree with her on a bunch of points anyway.
@Gretchypoo one of my coworkers recently called someone a pussy and then was like "oh that's not PC I mean the vagina" and I told him my vagina could take WAY more of a beating than his dick could
Has some cute feminist type shirts.