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OPS for a girl?

Shima42Shima42 member
edited August 2016 in Baby Names
Hey everybody :-) I am looking for some input.  I believe that mothers should give their daughters their last names, and fathers should give their sons their last names.  It doesn't seem fair, otherwise.  If my daughter grows up a bit and finds that she feels more comfortable as a male, he can decide to take his father's last name if he wishes.  The problem is that I don't know the name of my first female ancestor.  All the names that have been passed down (including my own last name) have come from men.  I want to give my daughter a last name that reflects part of her mitochondrial heritage, so I have decided on Serena, from Spain, from where our foremothers' mitochondria came.  I like also like Serena because it means 'peaceful,' and I am a pacifist.  Her full name will be Olivia Persephone Serena - Olivia being the first name of one of my favorite authors, and Persephone being the name of a character I love from a different author's books.  I wish that I could change my name to match my daughter's, but I think it's going to be too much trouble.  If she finds herself lonely in her name later on, I will change mine for her - but I think it would be a little selfish for me to decide to be the first matriarch with the name.  Even if she and I had the same last name, she might still have trouble when traveling with only her father.  So: there are my reasons.  Tell me your thoughts. For instance, is it a problem that when said together, her first and last name have the same 'a' ending?  Please be nice, BTW.  I'm pregnant, and I haven't been mean to any of you.  It's not time for a feeding frenzy.

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Re: OPS for a girl?

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    edited August 2016
    virginiaunicorn11 said:
    Is this farce? Your mitochondria probably came from Africa or the Tigris Euphrates Delta. Give her your last name.
    According to DNA tests, most of my mitochondrial mutations came from the Iberian peninsula, where they now speak Spanish.  Please try not to be rude.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    edited August 2016
    momma2char said:
    My thoughts: 

    1. I don't understand why you wouldn't give your daughter yours or her fathers last name. I gave my daughter my husbands last name (also my last name) because we are a family unit. In many instances- people use the term "family name" in place of last name. I don't mean to be rude.. I just really don't understand why you would search for a new last name for her.

    2. I believe the first or middle name should be the place where you reflect her heritage. If adding in a name that reflects her heritage is so important that you would rather give her a new last name rather than yours/fathers last name, I would drop Olivia or Persephone and name her Serena. Heritage over author? 

    3. I think it would be more strange to travel as a family unit and everyone have completely different last names. I'm sure you will be traveling as a family more than your daughter will be traveling alone with her father?

    4. Name suggestion: Serena Olivia or Serena Persephone

    1.  I am a feminist, and I think that it is important not to subsume a woman's identity in a man's - not her father's or her husband's.

    2.  I believe that the last name, the family name, is the place where heritage is most often expressed, especially historically.  That place in the name is usually the first time one learns that a person has a German, Spanish, or Middle Eastern family history if not meeting them in person.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    virginiaunicorn11 said:
    OP, you missed my point which is that you seem to be clinging to a random part of your lineage. Unless your family really identifies as Spanish, it is very random and unnecessary to choose that connection for a last name. I'm all about fighting the patriarchy, but this seems like a huge stretch. As @mellymar said more eloquently, using your own last name is appropriate.

    What does the baby's father say about all this?


    In response to this, my husband says, "Didn't she just say she was all about fighting the patriarchy?  Why does she then ask what I think?"

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    edited August 2016
    Bringmemylongswordho said:
    Just another point to consider, the Iberian peninsula has a very varied past as far as different cultures who inhabited it goes. While Spain makes up the majority of the area now, it's been a large cultural melting pot,  more so than other parts of Europe.  Picking a random Spanish name honors that about as much as drinking green beer on St. Patrick's day honors St. Patrick. 
    I did email a school of archaeology on the peninsula to ask if they knew any interesting ancient Iberian words from the rough time of mutation, so that I could use one as a last name, but I did not get a reply.  Do you have a suggestion for a better language from the peninsula to use than Spanish, which is a language that I enjoy and is familiar to many?

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  • emilyalsoemilyalso member
    edited August 2016
     I deleted my comment because, after carefully reading all responses, the points I made seem to have already been refuted. 
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  • RoxellRoxell member
    Shima42 said:
    Hey everybody :-) I am looking for some input.  I believe that mothers should give their daughters their last names, and fathers should give their sons their last names.  It doesn't seem fair, otherwise.  If my daughter grows up a bit and finds that she feels more comfortable as a male, he can decide to take his father's last name if he wishes.  The problem is that I don't know the name of my first female ancestor.  All the names that have been passed down (including my own last name) have come from men.  I want to give my daughter a last name that reflects part of her mitochondrial heritage, so I have decided on Serena, from Spain, from where our foremothers' mitochondria came.  I like also like Serena because it means 'peaceful,' and I am a pacifist.  Her full name will be Olivia Persephone Serena - Olivia being the first name of one of my favorite authors, and Persephone being the name of a character I love from a different author's books.  I wish that I could change my name to match my daughter's, but I think it's going to be too much trouble.  If she finds herself lonely in her name later on, I will change mine for her - but I think it would be a little selfish for me to decide to be the first matriarch with the name.  Even if she and I had the same last name, she might still have trouble when traveling with only her father.  So: there are my reasons.  Tell me your thoughts. For instance, is it a problem that when said together, her first and last name have the same 'a' ending?  Please be nice, BTW.  I'm pregnant, and I haven't been mean to any of you.  It's not time for a feeding frenzy.


    *** stuck in a box***
    Being 'the first matriarch' would involve your daughter not only having a girl but also deciding to pass on the random last name you pulled out of a hat for her.
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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    Roxell said:
    Shima42 said:
    Hey everybody :-) I am looking for some input.  I believe that mothers should give their daughters their last names, and fathers should give their sons their last names.  It doesn't seem fair, otherwise.  If my daughter grows up a bit and finds that she feels more comfortable as a male, he can decide to take his father's last name if he wishes.  The problem is that I don't know the name of my first female ancestor.  All the names that have been passed down (including my own last name) have come from men.  I want to give my daughter a last name that reflects part of her mitochondrial heritage, so I have decided on Serena, from Spain, from where our foremothers' mitochondria came.  I like also like Serena because it means 'peaceful,' and I am a pacifist.  Her full name will be Olivia Persephone Serena - Olivia being the first name of one of my favorite authors, and Persephone being the name of a character I love from a different author's books.  I wish that I could change my name to match my daughter's, but I think it's going to be too much trouble.  If she finds herself lonely in her name later on, I will change mine for her - but I think it would be a little selfish for me to decide to be the first matriarch with the name.  Even if she and I had the same last name, she might still have trouble when traveling with only her father.  So: there are my reasons.  Tell me your thoughts. For instance, is it a problem that when said together, her first and last name have the same 'a' ending?  Please be nice, BTW.  I'm pregnant, and I haven't been mean to any of you.  It's not time for a feeding frenzy.


    *** stuck in a box***
    Being 'the first matriarch' would involve your daughter not only having a girl but also deciding to pass on the random last name you pulled out of a hat for her.
    Well, it's not completely random.  I did research my own genes down to the mitochondria, figure out what language to use, picked a name that meant something deeply important to me, spent hours thinking about it, and then subjected myself to the worst trolls on the Internet just to find out what horrible things people would say about it that I might not yet have thought of - but you're right about the name I choose being subject to the exact same quandary that every other name is subject to.  She may not keep the name or have children.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    saham07 said:
    Pick Eve.....that is as far back as you can go.
    No, that name is only 6016 years old.  There are documented female names that are much older.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    virginiaunicorn11 said:
    I think you and your husband don't actually have the first clue about feminism if you don't understand why I'd ask about the opinion of the father of your child. I also think this breed of "feminism" is what makes others misunderstand and dislike "feminism." 

    I agree with you that you are plaguing your daughter with the burden of these responses her entire life.

    In addition to reconsidering your concept of what feminism is and isn't, you need to look at what the word troll does and does not mean. You asked for opinions. You got honest ones that you disagree with. Trolls wouldn't provide reasoned responses. If you are engaging a public Internet forum, I'd think you'd be a little more prepared for varied responses and perhaps even trolls, though there aren't any here (with one possible exception because this is the strangest scenario. And if your husband thinks the institution of marriage is fair game but asking his opinion as the father of the child isn't...you two have done a very good job of picking and choosing what part of the patriarchy to subscribe to). 

    Done responding, because your "feminism" isn't something I care for. Good luck with your pregnancy. And your baby's father who thinks he has no say in his child's name. Hopefully he can feel a little more engaged in other parts of raising your child.
    I think you're a troll because I don't think you have any interest in helping me to find a name that fits my goals.  It seems that all you and other trolls want is to naysay and deliberately misunderstand.  For example: why should you think that my husband and I haven't spoken extensively about this?  Why should you be concerned about his part in naming the child when society has already given him plenty of consideration?  Why, as a feminist, would you be so combative with a woman who is earnestly trying to take back her daughter's power?  Why should you fail to recognize that all such attempts are fraught with complication and difficulty, and accuse me of making my daughter's life more difficult?  Why accuse me of creating this burden, when it is kyriarchy which created the situation?  Why be so rude, when no one has been rude to you, and I have asked for nothing but an opinion?  Civility is not just a failure to swear.  You have been unkind with no reason.  That is trolling.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    erzsi1 said:
    Shima42 said:
    virginiaunicorn11 said:
    I think you and your husband don't actually have the first clue about feminism if you don't understand why I'd ask about the opinion of the father of your child. I also think this breed of "feminism" is what makes others misunderstand and dislike "feminism." 

    I agree with you that you are plaguing your daughter with the burden of these responses her entire life.

    In addition to reconsidering your concept of what feminism is and isn't, you need to look at what the word troll does and does not mean. You asked for opinions. You got honest ones that you disagree with. Trolls wouldn't provide reasoned responses. If you are engaging a public Internet forum, I'd think you'd be a little more prepared for varied responses and perhaps even trolls, though there aren't any here (with one possible exception because this is the strangest scenario. And if your husband thinks the institution of marriage is fair game but asking his opinion as the father of the child isn't...you two have done a very good job of picking and choosing what part of the patriarchy to subscribe to). 

    Done responding, because your "feminism" isn't something I care for. Good luck with your pregnancy. And your baby's father who thinks he has no say in his child's name. Hopefully he can feel a little more engaged in other parts of raising your child.
    I think you're a troll because I don't think you have any interest in helping me to find a name that fits my goals.  It seems that all you and other trolls want is to naysay and deliberately misunderstand.  For example: why should you think that my husband and I haven't spoken extensively about this?  Why should you be concerned about his part in naming the child when society has already given him plenty of consideration?  Why, as a feminist, would you be so combative with a woman who is earnestly trying to take back her daughter's power?  Why should you fail to recognize that all such attempts are fraught with complication and difficulty, and accuse me of making my daughter's life more difficult?  Why accuse me of creating this burden, when it is kyriarchy which created the situation?  Why be so rude, when no one has been rude to you, and I have asked for nothing but an opinion?  Civility is not just a failure to swear.  You have been unkind with no reason.  That is trolling.
    Nobody here is being unkind or rude in any way, whatsoever. They are honest opinions and from what I can tell, no hostility is involved. 

    First of all, feminism is about equality, not tearing down men so women can be on top. 

    Continuing, on the original topic, creating a last name for your daughter is simply confusing and I, personally, don't see a point in it. Especially if said name is some first name you plucked from your "mitochondrial" history. She can be a matriarch in more ways than being given a "new" last name. Her power and strength is determined by who she will be as a person.

    Give her your last name or your husband's. Hyphen it if you want. Just taking Serena and calling it a last name won't do anyone any good. 

    If you can't identify the rudeness here, I understand why you can't tell the difference between standing up for womanhood and beating a man down.

    Creating a new name as a feminist act is nothing new.  
    It is rude to pretend that the reasons are opaque or 'confusing.'

    Telling someone what to do is rude, and is not a simple sharing of opinion.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    Roxell said:
    You may wish to read "8 Alternatives to Taking Your Husband's Last Name," and other feminist articles.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    erzsi1 said:
    Shima42 said:
    erzsi1 said:
    Shima42 said:
    virginiaunicorn11 said:
    I think you and your husband don't actually have the first clue about feminism if you don't understand why I'd ask about the opinion of the father of your child. I also think this breed of "feminism" is what makes others misunderstand and dislike "feminism." 

    I agree with you that you are plaguing your daughter with the burden of these responses her entire life.

    In addition to reconsidering your concept of what feminism is and isn't, you need to look at what the word troll does and does not mean. You asked for opinions. You got honest ones that you disagree with. Trolls wouldn't provide reasoned responses. If you are engaging a public Internet forum, I'd think you'd be a little more prepared for varied responses and perhaps even trolls, though there aren't any here (with one possible exception because this is the strangest scenario. And if your husband thinks the institution of marriage is fair game but asking his opinion as the father of the child isn't...you two have done a very good job of picking and choosing what part of the patriarchy to subscribe to). 

    Done responding, because your "feminism" isn't something I care for. Good luck with your pregnancy. And your baby's father who thinks he has no say in his child's name. Hopefully he can feel a little more engaged in other parts of raising your child.
    I think you're a troll because I don't think you have any interest in helping me to find a name that fits my goals.  It seems that all you and other trolls want is to naysay and deliberately misunderstand.  For example: why should you think that my husband and I haven't spoken extensively about this?  Why should you be concerned about his part in naming the child when society has already given him plenty of consideration?  Why, as a feminist, would you be so combative with a woman who is earnestly trying to take back her daughter's power?  Why should you fail to recognize that all such attempts are fraught with complication and difficulty, and accuse me of making my daughter's life more difficult?  Why accuse me of creating this burden, when it is kyriarchy which created the situation?  Why be so rude, when no one has been rude to you, and I have asked for nothing but an opinion?  Civility is not just a failure to swear.  You have been unkind with no reason.  That is trolling.
    Nobody here is being unkind or rude in any way, whatsoever. They are honest opinions and from what I can tell, no hostility is involved. 

    First of all, feminism is about equality, not tearing down men so women can be on top. 

    Continuing, on the original topic, creating a last name for your daughter is simply confusing and I, personally, don't see a point in it. Especially if said name is some first name you plucked from your "mitochondrial" history. She can be a matriarch in more ways than being given a "new" last name. Her power and strength is determined by who she will be as a person.

    Give her your last name or your husband's. Hyphen it if you want. Just taking Serena and calling it a last name won't do anyone any good. 

    If you can't identify the rudeness here, I understand why you can't tell the difference between standing up for womanhood and beating a man down.

    Creating a new name as a feminist act is nothing new.  
    It is rude to pretend that the reasons are opaque or 'confusing.'

    Telling someone what to do is rude, and is not a simple sharing of opinion.
    I'm starting to think you don't understand the meaning of the word "rude".

    You came here asking for everybody's opinions and suggestions, which they gave. It's not their fault that you disagree. It's a thing that happens. Not everybody has the same opinion. 

    Telling someone that they're "pretending" is "rude" if we are playing by your rules. The reasons against choosing a random surname for your child is are valid. 

    Nobody here is telling you what to do or forcing you to do anything. These are simply our opinions. At the end of the day, it's your child. 

    Hop off off your high horse, honey. 
    'Honey' is a word used to diminish the subject when the speaker feels threatened.  It is reasonable that my responses should take on the tone of the comments to which I am objecting.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    Roxell said:
    Shima42 said:
    Roxell said:
    You may wish to read "8 Alternatives to Taking Your Husband's Last Name," and other feminist articles.
    Oh I better ask my husband if I have his permission first.



    See?  Pure trolling.

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  • Shima42Shima42 member
    Roxell said:
    Shima42 said:
    Roxell said:
    Shima42 said:
    Roxell said:
    You may wish to read "8 Alternatives to Taking Your Husband's Last Name," and other feminist articles.
    Oh I better ask my husband if I have his permission first.



    See?  Pure trolling.
    Or, perhaps I'm just offended that you assume I know nothing about feminism and am a troll simply because I disagree with you.

    BTW name calling is not something we condone here.
    You are the one who posted the meme.

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  • DogLoverX3DogLoverX3 member
    edited August 2016
    Nevermind
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