@dmontgo thanks girl. H and I heard a pastor speaking once and he was talking about dealing with extended family relationships and the stress of expectations, etc. He said something that really clicked with us and I haven't forgotten it. He said something along the lines of,
when end you get married your welcomed into this idea that now you and your partner are just an extension of your other family units and therefore your decisions and planning need to accommodate that attachment. But the reality is that once you're married, you become your own separate entity. Your family is the 2 of you (and any children that may come along) and decision making and planning must be made only according to what's best for you and that separate unit.
It it doesn't sound all that profound, but we had totally been functioning under the guise that we were just extensions of someone else's family, not as one of our own. It's changed everything.
@Christinaruth74 It's so true! I think in dysfunctional family dynamics we are taught that we will always be children, we will always need our parents (not in the healthy way of functioning), we will always owe them, etc. It's very difficult to separate and say, "Hey! I'm an adult with my own family, and I have to do what's best for them, not bow down to your demands!"
DH and I, I would say in the past year, started realizing what you are talking about and it has made a huge difference in how we plan holidays, birthdays, vacations, etc. We don't feel like we owe anybody any kind of time or special attention--we will see them on our terms. Very freeing!
I read something yesterday that echoed what y'all are saying - something along the lines of "never expect your children to fully repay you for raising them. They can't - you made them, birthed them, raised them, how could they pay that back? They will pay it forward by having their own children or doing good in the world and that's the only satisfaction you get." Made a lot of sense to me as a soon-to-be parent and also in relating to my own parents and avoiding guilt about how I deal with them.
Children don't ask to be born. We bring them into the world with the understanding that we will have to make sacrifices. They don't ask us to do that. It's incredibly unfair to put such a responsibility on a child and lord over them the line, "You owe me!" Selfishness, pure selfishness.
when end you get married your welcomed into this idea that now you and your partner are just an extension of your other family units and therefore your decisions and planning need to accommodate that attachment. But the reality is that once you're married, you become your own separate entity. Your family is the 2 of you (and any children that may come along) and decision making and planning must be made only according to what's best for you and that separate unit.
x 238230982 We are in the process of figuring out what this means for us. And it's so so liberating to feel justified in putting our wishes for our family (of soon to be four plus our first born, the dog) ahead of feelings of family obligation from our extended families. I think it's wonderful to part take in family things when it works for us. But, specifically with my parents and siblings, the dynamics and norms are crap. And that doesn't work for us. And I feel so justified now in feeling FREEEEEE of them. We'll show up to gatherings that meet our boundary needs but we will interact according to our own norms and not be sucked into their behavioral patterns.
This set of holidays will be a big step. I feel very lucky that I can totally depend on DH as a partner in figuring out what feels right and what we should step away from.
@Christinaruth74 and @slartybartfast I agree completely! Especially around the whole holiday thing. Both DH and I live in the same area as our parents so every year both sets wanted us on Thanksgiving and Christmas. It usually resulted in us splitting the day and not spending much time at either which was annoying for both parents (more so my mom having the biggest fit). So last year we said we were cooking for Thanksgiving and whoever wanted to join may but we were tired of running back and forth and having no quality time. It worked out so well! Recently, we had planned a trip 4 hours away (each way in one day) to visit 2 of DH's uncles who are not doing well with their cancer battle. Since we don't see them often and they were in between treatments and in good spirits it was a good time to go. The day before we find out my niece (half sister's kid who we aren't overly close to) is having a birthday party. I tell my mom we can't go because we will be out of town and why. She has a fit. That day I get texts guilt tripping us that we chose DH's dying uncles over a birthday party. What?! I finally called her out and told her how inappropriate it was and if was one of our dying family members and I chose a kid's birthday party how would she feel. She seemingly got it then. We did what was best for us, not just one side which is what needs to be done. It's our decision, our choices.
Me: 26 & DH: 25
Married: August 2014 TTC since November 2015 BFP #1 12/17/15 - MC 1/28/16 BFP #2 4/22/16 - EDD 12/30/16
Haha okay let me clarify some. It's DH's debt. Since DH was in school my MIL handled all DH's bills regarding loans and whatnot. He is in the process of getting all this information from her before Squish comes. This has been a battle for years, but she finally gave in when we found out Squish was on the way. This debt DH was under the impression had been/was being handled. So needless to say he is pissed.
Married 4/12/13 TTC since 6/13 Diagnosed w/ PCOS 4/9/15 - R/E recommended lifestyle change BFP 4/10/16 - DS born 12/16/2016 SURPRISE! BFP 3/8/18
We are still learning how to do this because DH and I are both very family oriented. Every single year we drive all over the place so we can do every single holiday and birthday with as much family as possible. I've mentioned before that my family lives on the north side of ATL and his family lives on the south side and there's 1.5 hours between them. Two Easters now are the only holidays we've spent just us as a couple because we've moved 3 hours out of state to Bham. Otherwise, we've just been driving now even more from where we are, which is madness, honestly.
Now with Eaton coming in December though, we are going to have to probably do Thanksgiving and Christmas on our own if no one decides to come our way. This is probably a good thing. We've said for years that we wouldn't do this when we had kids (drive all over) because what a damper Christmas would be - "Merry Christmas! I know you have a ton of new fun stuff to play with but you gotta get in the car, mom and dad are on a schedule!"
@caseyewhitaker I'm curious to see what the holidays hold for us because DH grew up driving all over (across three states) for Christmas with his family. Now we do something similar (over 2-3 days). He has two sides (divorced parents) and they have immediate and extended family events. Thankfully my family only has one but we end up going to at least 7 different parties/functions during Christmas. It's exhausting and takes all the fun out of the day, not to mention all the cooking I have to do for the different potluck parties. Hopefully now that we have a family we will be able to edit and actually enjoy the holidays.
On the note of families and boundaries, I feel like there are a lot of unrealistic and unhealthy expectations thrown at us in all directions. For instance, I lurve the show Parenthood, but H and I would watch it and literally cringe at the total disregard for boundaries. I mean, there was a lot of over-sharing and taking on burdens that weren't meant to be taken and family situations spilling out onto every other person within a 100 mile radius. I loved how close they were and parts of the open-door dynamic, but lawd almighty there's no way that lifestyle would fly 'round here.
@Christinaruth74 Many people don't know what boundaries are, or how necessary they are. I think part of it is cultural, where a lot of crossed boundaries are considered "cute" or "funny," like when a dad won't let his daughter date anyone and threatens other men. I get wanting to protect your child, but your child isn't property or livestock--you don't get to choose who your child loves (not talking about dangerous individuals or situations). They are people, and they need to have room to grow (with boundaries, sure, but healthy ones, not just possessiveness). But if you showed the majority of people the "rules" for dating their daughter (I'll hunt you down and I ain't afraid of going back to prison if you date her! Or the dad showing a teenage boy his shotgun) most people would laugh.
Boundary breaking is normalized and it takes a lot to rethink things and be different.
I've typed this out 3 different times and each time the bump eats it!!!! Ugh. Long story short my MIL is driving me crazy. But reading your stories let's me know I'm not alone.
Me: 29
DH: 30
Happily Ever After: 05-15-2015 TTC since June 2015
I had to talk to my dad last night about business stuff. It's so surreal because when we talk about business or work-related things, it's almost as if we have a completely normal relationship. He doesn't put me down or act like I don't know what I'm talking about when it's regarding business. He can even be encouraging. He's an excellent businessman but a less than stellar dad. Just strange. It's funny because one of the reasons I got into my research on Emotional Intelligence in the workplace is because he always told me how important it is when building relationships with employees. Yet somehow, those wise words never applied to his relationship with me or my brother.
I think I would have a better relationship with him if he was my boss, not my dad. That's weird to say. Just random thoughts over coffee this morning.
Christinaruth74 broken parental relationships are the worst! I just wish my dad was still alive because he was an amazing dad and the only example of healthy parenting that I had. Reading your contribution seriously felt like I was reading about my own mom's latest escapade. Hugs!
@dmontgo emotional intelligence is easier at work because you are striving for a common goal! I find that learning about it has helped both my career and my home life too. It doesn't work all the time at home for me now that I'm pregnant sometimes I get irrational and silly.
Me: 38, DH: 36 Married Jan 2008 DD Baby Bells born Dec 2016 5 lbs, 12 oz, 18" so in love Due with #2 Baby Arya EDD February 2020
@leksiL I just think it's funny. My dad always says, "Take care of your employees/soldiers and they will take care of you." Countless people beg to work for him (he's a federal employee now), and they've told me that my dad is so considerate and knows how to treat people like people. They think he's awesome.
On one hand it's funny to me, but on the other hand, stuff like that is exactly why it was so hard to talk to anyone about home life--my dad is awesome, how could he ever be mean? "I wish your dad was my dad!" Very isolating and it always made me wonder if maybe it was me who was the messed up one. I know now it's just part of the "show" that narcissists put on for the outside world.
There are things my dad absolutely does well, like plan awesome vacations and gifts and he can be very funny--but emotionally and physically (he was gone a lot for military stuff but he never gave hugs or physical comfort like that when home) he was/is absent, and all those other things don't matter so much now.
At the date when this discussion was posted we were currently and still are dealing with my Mil and basically not wanting to be a parent to her own children so much that we've took on majority of her responsibilities. She doesn't cook. she doesn't clean. She may do a load of laundry but it sits in the washing machine for three/four days before it ever comes in contact with the dryer and by then it's already mildewed but she still days it. & she doesn't discipline her children and makes it seem like they don't have to listen to me or my husband and don't have to have any respect for us either. We could dinner the Sunday before last after she had been gone all day(she says she had classes but we know better and know she's cheating on fil) and she came home and told her kids to get whatever theu needed that they were going to her other daughters house to eat dinner after we just spwnd 80$ buying food to cook because she only buys junk food and noodles and chicken parties and nuggets so the kids can fend for themselves and she can run off being a slut at all hours of the night(leaves 7am- doesn't come back till 2/3am when everyone's asleep and says she was working or at school or something when she works 4 hrs a day and school isnt until 3am..) So my husband said something to her and she says well I never asked yall to cook or watch my kids(which I do everyday all day up until last week and will not again) so he tells her good she won't have to worry about us cancelling our plans to watch her kids for her to go be a slut anymore. So we havent. But mil is the type that doesn't want to me a mom and doesn't want to be a wife so she runs off and back story: she cheated on the man she was with before fil with fil so that says enough about her. She was doing the same tnings she does now. Neglecting her kids and husband. I don't like her and never have.
@wynterwaddell Ugh I am sorry you are dealing with that! My MIL is the same way as far as parenting goes--she wanted the "prestige" of being a mom but had no interest in actually being a mom, so she had night nurses and au pair's and such to take care of my DH and SIL.
@dmontgo my former step mother was this way. She was a hairstylist in the town I grew up and all of the younger crowd at my high school enjoyed going to her. She had a fabulous personality, was everyone's friend, so playful, and charming. Everyone I went to school with thought she was amazing. "I'm so jealous she's your step mom!" "How cool she would be for a mom, you're so lucky."
Meanwhile she treated me like dirt as soon as there wasn't an audience. I was always grounded from everything, wasn't allowed to even walk across the house without her permission. I always had an attitude, I was ungrateful, was fat, disgusting, etc. She tried to destroy my friendships and my relationship with my grandparents. My grandmother had to do my laundry because the laundry was in the master bedroom and I wasn't allowed anywhere near there.
Everything in my life was about her. She even went to my prom with us so she could "take pictures."
Like you said, it was very isolating. Only my closest friends understood what she was really like. My dad was not an abusive parent but I will always be disappointed in him for allowing her to have hold of the reigns and treat me the way she did when he was the real parent.
@dmontgo There's two of them. One is 12 and one is 10. Another thing that pissed me off was a few months back we had a "family meeting" well her 18 yr old daughter was living here still(she's just as nasty as the other two and their mother. I only seen her shower once the whole time she lived here) well fil told the younger ones that like it or not they had to respect me, well mil comes and says well they need to respect the 18 yr old too but quite frankly if she doesn't act like an adult why treat her like one, she was standing behind fil the whole time rolling her eyes and stuff. & basically by her saying that she made it seem like I was nobody and they don't have to respect me. & then a few weeks ago my husband told me to tell the kids they needed to clean our the refrigerator, well they wanted to just wipe the shelves with a rag and bleach instead of taking it out and washing them in the sink with soap and water snd Beach so I made them redo it 3 times because it had dead bugs, blood and spilled food all over it and I walked out of the room to check on my two puppies and the 12 year old tells his sister and my step son that if I don't shut up he would throw a butcher's knife at me..Well H came home and spazzed on him and the boy hasn't had much to say since then. But they're being taught to have no respect for either one of us or fil because every time we try to discipline them or take phones or games or ground them or anything like that(never spankings) she goes over our heads and let's them do whatever they want. to the point where even FIL is sick of it all too. I'll be glad when we get our house in January or February. Then she had the nerve to say something to H about how I stay in our room conysntly and don't come out and speak and I'm like I come out but I don't feel the need to come out and talk to you because you don't like me or think I ahould be respected at all anyways so why come out around disrespectful rude children and someone that i don't even like and that doesn't like me.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that.My grandmother growing up had severe control issues. I never spent the night away from home, I didn't cut my hair for the first time until I was 14. I literally had 0 Friends. Wouldn't take me to get my driver's license or let me get a job or anything because she wants all of us to be fully dependent on her including my drug addict mother and my aunt with the husband that's in prison. I feel bad for my brothers and sisters because they're gonna have to deal with the same things I did because she has custody of them but my mom lives right across the street from them so she's there she's just a drug addict. @caseywhitaker
@caseyewhitaker Hugs to you. I wish I didn't know what you were talking about, but I do. Bleh.
@wynterwaddell So, so glad you are getting your own place soon! That sounds like a disheartening environment to live in. I don't blame you for not leaving the room often--it sounds too stressful to even put forth the effort! >.<
@dmontgo It's stressful sometimes but I don't worry about it too much honestly because H doesnt go out a lot either. He doesn't like her either and he doesnt like how she does things with the kids either so we just leave it alone and let them live like pigs and we don't care what they do or what the house looks like as long as our room stays clean. I don't even worry about it or stress myself about the situation..Weve tried to sit down and talk about it and have FIL talk to her and everything and she just disregards it and keeps letting things go the same way so we just don't worry about it. We eat separately, we buy food and keep it in our room so the Kids won't eat it and because of the house looking the way it does I'm also phobic of putting our food in their refrigerator because something might get in it or on it or germs from whatever was spilled or bacteria and get us sick and I'm not going for it. So we bought a mini fridge and will be buying a microwave before baby is born Our clothes are done separately, Ibleach the shower and everything before I use it and if I use pots or pans I wash them first. And I've come to the conclusion baby's food, bottles or any of that won't be going in there in the kitchen, they'll stay in our room well buy plastic containers for it. & I've also told him I don't want any of them coming to the hospital to see him and when we come home nobody's holding him except his dad if he wants to because none of the kids shower like they're supposed to and neither does Mil. That may be a bit mean but I'm not having him get sick from them or even be subjected to bad hygiene. lol. I don't think mil will care about holding him anyways because we tried to show her ultrasound pictures from our Anatomy scan and she didn't even want to see them.
I also told him that once baby is here and he starts talking and walking and all of that, even though we won't live here I don't expect her to even open her mouth to our son about anything because I'll cuss her out. Hell respect her but she's not gonna do what she does with my step son(same thing she does with her kids). @dmontgo
@wynterwaddell That's great you're not letting it get to you and that your DH is on the same page--truly makes such a difference. They sound disgusting so I don't blame you for not wanting your little baby around their nastiness! She sounds like a real piece of work...
@dmontgo They definitely are. I'm very ocd but with good reason and I'm so glad he's on the same page as me It definitely does help a whole lot. & yeah she's definitely something. I don't let it bother me I'm just like well be in our own house January or February and up until then I don't care what any of them do as long as they leave my child alone and they stay out of our room and our room stays clean which it always does so I really have nothing to worry about. FIL got pissed yesterday because he come home and the house was a wreck and the kids were sitting on the phones and computers doing nothing and his wife was of course MIA, so he went outside and cut grass at 9:00 at night because he needed to relieve anger. I feel so bad for him but I always make a point to tell H that we will never ever be anything like them but he knows that because I have certain standards that I believe in and always will and he completely agrees. I just believe women should be clean and well kept at all times, they should be home even if they work to help raise their children. their house should stay as clean as possible and be faithful and loving and supportive to their husbands and a lot more things than that but that's just my opinion lol.
Re: [OLD THREAD]Why My Family is Driving Me Crazy 8.16
when end you get married your welcomed into this idea that now you and your partner are just an extension of your other family units and therefore your decisions and planning need to accommodate that attachment. But the reality is that once you're married, you become your own separate entity. Your family is the 2 of you (and any children that may come along) and decision making and planning must be made only according to what's best for you and that separate unit.
It it doesn't sound all that profound, but we had totally been functioning under the guise that we were just extensions of someone else's family, not as one of our own. It's changed everything.
@phoenix870509 whoa, wait. What?
DH and I, I would say in the past year, started realizing what you are talking about and it has made a huge difference in how we plan holidays, birthdays, vacations, etc. We don't feel like we owe anybody any kind of time or special attention--we will see them on our terms. Very freeing!
Children don't ask to be born. We bring them into the world with the understanding that we will have to make sacrifices. They don't ask us to do that. It's incredibly unfair to put such a responsibility on a child and lord over them the line, "You owe me!" Selfishness, pure selfishness.
We are in the process of figuring out what this means for us. And it's so so liberating to feel justified in putting our wishes for our family (of soon to be four plus our first born, the dog) ahead of feelings of family obligation from our extended families. I think it's wonderful to part take in family things when it works for us. But, specifically with my parents and siblings, the dynamics and norms are crap. And that doesn't work for us. And I feel so justified now in feeling FREEEEEE of them. We'll show up to gatherings that meet our boundary needs but we will interact according to our own norms and not be sucked into their behavioral patterns.
This set of holidays will be a big step. I feel very lucky that I can totally depend on DH as a partner in figuring out what feels right and what we should step away from.
Recently, we had planned a trip 4 hours away (each way in one day) to visit 2 of DH's uncles who are not doing well with their cancer battle. Since we don't see them often and they were in between treatments and in good spirits it was a good time to go. The day before we find out my niece (half sister's kid who we aren't overly close to) is having a birthday party. I tell my mom we can't go because we will be out of town and why. She has a fit. That day I get texts guilt tripping us that we chose DH's dying uncles over a birthday party. What?! I finally called her out and told her how inappropriate it was and if was one of our dying family members and I chose a kid's birthday party how would she feel. She seemingly got it then. We did what was best for us, not just one side which is what needs to be done. It's our decision, our choices.
TTC since November 2015
BFP #1 12/17/15 - MC 1/28/16
BFP #2 4/22/16 - EDD 12/30/16
TTC since 6/13
Diagnosed w/ PCOS 4/9/15 - R/E recommended lifestyle change
BFP 4/10/16 - DS born 12/16/2016
SURPRISE! BFP 3/8/18
Now with Eaton coming in December though, we are going to have to probably do Thanksgiving and Christmas on our own if no one decides to come our way. This is probably a good thing. We've said for years that we wouldn't do this when we had kids (drive all over) because what a damper Christmas would be - "Merry Christmas! I know you have a ton of new fun stuff to play with but you gotta get in the car, mom and dad are on a schedule!"
Boundary breaking is normalized and it takes a lot to rethink things and be different.
TTC since June 2015
September Football Siggy
I think I would have a better relationship with him if he was my boss, not my dad. That's weird to say. Just random thoughts over coffee this morning.
Married Jan 2008
DD Baby Bells born Dec 2016 5 lbs, 12 oz, 18"
Due with #2 Baby Arya EDD February 2020
On one hand it's funny to me, but on the other hand, stuff like that is exactly why it was so hard to talk to anyone about home life--my dad is awesome, how could he ever be mean? "I wish your dad was my dad!" Very isolating and it always made me wonder if maybe it was me who was the messed up one. I know now it's just part of the "show" that narcissists put on for the outside world.
There are things my dad absolutely does well, like plan awesome vacations and gifts and he can be very funny--but emotionally and physically (he was gone a lot for military stuff but he never gave hugs or physical comfort like that when home) he was/is absent, and all those other things don't matter so much now.
How old are her other children?
Meanwhile she treated me like dirt as soon as there wasn't an audience. I was always grounded from everything, wasn't allowed to even walk across the house without her permission. I always had an attitude, I was ungrateful, was fat, disgusting, etc. She tried to destroy my friendships and my relationship with my grandparents. My grandmother had to do my laundry because the laundry was in the master bedroom and I wasn't allowed anywhere near there.
Everything in my life was about her. She even went to my prom with us so she could "take pictures."
Like you said, it was very isolating. Only my closest friends understood what she was really like. My dad was not an abusive parent but I will always be disappointed in him for allowing her to have hold of the reigns and treat me the way she did when he was the real parent.
I'll be glad when we get our house in January or February. Then she had the nerve to say something to H about how I stay in our room conysntly and don't come out and speak and I'm like I come out but I don't feel the need to come out and talk to you because you don't like me or think I ahould be respected at all anyways so why come out around disrespectful rude children and someone that i don't even like and that doesn't like me.
@wynterwaddell So, so glad you are getting your own place soon! That sounds like a disheartening environment to live in. I don't blame you for not leaving the room often--it sounds too stressful to even put forth the effort! >.<