@ashleygorokhovsky I would pump after one feeding during the day so DH could have one "shift" in the middle of the night so I could have a stretch to sleep. It was hard at first when you are engorged in the beginning but it will adjust to what you need in a few weeks.
Wow! I wouldn't have expected this to become a heated thread! I don't know about night nurse, OP, I know that there are such things as post partum doulas and while they don't typically do nights, you may be able to negotiate an agreement with one.
people have all different post partum experiences... For some it's not about exhaustion and bonding and managing comfort and ease. Post partum mental and emotional states can make life hell for people. And lack of sleep can exacerbate this. I have a friend whose wife literally could not care for her child for over a year after birth. It was so hard on him. I'm not saying that's the situation with OP but sometimes a mothers intuition may lead her to seek out extra support, even if she doesn't know exactly why yet. Why anyone would turn to mom judgement with this question is beyond me!
@DiFazette - I can understand your perspective too but I guess knowing people who have covered the board in post partum experiences, I would not want someone in need of help to feel guilty about it because they are built differently emotionally. My perspective is driven by the desire for the baby to be cared for. Hopefully moms got it but if not, hopefully she's got resources for support
@penelope4612I hadn't thought about the PPD possibility. It makes sense that someone might need extra help if she suffered from PPD. I had PPD after my son and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. For me, nothing short of psychiatric care would have helped but that's neither here nor there.
I'm still hesitant to sign on to the idea that we have to be perfectly friendly and giving to every drive by who uses this board as her personal Google. To me, that's rude and inconsiderate behavior. I'm not suggesting everyone gang up on the drive bys, but if some of us choose to say, "girl, no," we shouldn't be attacked for that either.
@slartybartfast - I suffered from PPA due to my circumstances, so it's not as if I'm insenstitive to it. People are allowed to have strong reactions based on their personal experiences. This is one of mine. It's cool.
I dont want want to keep this alive, but I don't feel I should have to walk on eggshells about my feelings and experience (that are real and valid) when I am an active member of this community to speculate about a poster's intentions who's posted and ghosted to use us as her personal Google many times over. Somewhere we draw the line of being supportive of our actual community participants than being sensitive to an unconfirmed speculation of someone we know NOTHING about. I'm not going to feel bad because someone we don't know MIGHT have asked a question because they COULD suffer post-birth from PPD/PPA.
I'm honestly a little jaded about this conversation. Very surprised to see that the pendulum of support with some swings in favor of someone we don't know, with much speculation on the reason rather than understanding of someone who provides support day in and day out on this board and has valid, confirmed reasons for their response.
@penelope4612I hadn't thought about the PPD possibility. It makes sense that someone might need extra help if she suffered from PPD. I had PPD after my son and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. For me, nothing short of psychiatric care would have helped but that's neither here nor there.
I'm still hesitant to sign on to the idea that we have to be perfectly friendly and giving to every drive by who uses this board as her personal Google. To me, that's rude and inconsiderate behavior. I'm not suggesting everyone gang up on the drive bys, but if some of us choose to say, "girl, no," we shouldn't be attacked for that either.
This. On my previous BMB, OP would have been eaten alive.
Ezra James 08/22/2013 Nora Grace Due 12/26/2016
Two Angel Babies 07/03/2012 08/08/2015
"If you're still my small babe or you're all the way grown, my promise to you is you're never alone. You are my angel, my darling, my star...and my love will find you, wherever you are."
I have LOTS of thoughts on this topic, but to try to stay on topic I'll just add that I would find it more benefiting to hire a postpartum doula. They come at it the other way ... Their serve the family and mother and aid her in keeping the baby close to herself (like bringing the baby to you at night to be fed so you don't have to get out of bed) and caring for needs like chores, shopping and such. They mother the family. That is a model that encourages and supports bonding and allows a parent to do their job, but with help and support. Parenting is hard. Sleep deprivation is hard. But it doesn't always shack out to be "that bad"... I've only had two of my children have hard seasons of this. One was with my 1 yo adopted daughter... I'd literally hold her while she thrashed endlessly because she was so traumatized. She literally could nt shut down and allow herself to rest she was so fearful. And I knew if I handed her off to anyone else I'd be encouraging her to doubt her trust in me. Holding your child and caring for their needs (at night) makes you a parent. A stranger doing that same job is a form of institutional care, it's not the same and a baby will know it. If you're trying to make it easier on yourself by abdicating your responsibilities, trust me, you will only make it harder on yourself in the long run. One of my meditations is "doing hard things only makes me stronger... So lean into it!" Ive never ever regretted a single hour spent caring for my children at night. They are sweet times that I will miss and look back on with fondness.
I actually thought this conversation was great- people put their opinions out there, but not really in an "attacking" way? There honestly are serious things to consider for this topic that were brought up!
I don't think it's wrong to give opinions against what the OP originally says- maybe they had never considered the other side of it before. There's no reason to not discuss parenting views- much can be learned from it!
Ok guys, I reread the thread and would like to apologize. In the light of day, I cannot explain why my experience of everyone's opinion was so visceral and strongly negative. You are right, your replies were actually not as negative as I somehow perceived them. For some reason, when I was reading the thread the first time, all I could think was "God what if I can't handle this? What if I need to hire someone because I can't do this any everyone tells me I'm a terrible mom?" After rereading the thread, that was not the message, and actually @DiFazette made it quite clear in each post that she was onto questioning a night nurse in cases where it is being used as a luxury and not a necessity.
@DiFazette - my goal was not to somehow compare your extemely challenging and traumatizing life experience with an imaginary story I made up about the OP in my head. I was trying to present the idea that people might have different experiences that would warrant needing a night nurse but you weren't even arguing that point so I can see why you felt my comments were unhelpful. I am very sorry if you felt I was attacking you or negating your experience.
Can we all be friends again and let this thread die?
And can you all promise me if I lose my sh*t when this baby comes you won't all tell me I'm a terrible mom if I need help?
Ok guys, I reread the thread and would like to apologize. In the light of day, I cannot explain why my experience of everyone's opinion was so visceral and strongly negative. You are right, your replies were actually not as negative as I somehow perceived them. For some reason, when I was reading the thread the first time, all I could think was "God what if I can't handle this? What if I need to hire someone because I can't do this any everyone tells me I'm a terrible mom?" After rereading the thread, that was not the message, and actually @DiFazette made it quite clear in each post that she was onto questioning a night nurse in cases where it is being used as a luxury and not a necessity.
@DiFazette - my goal was not to somehow compare your extemely challenging and traumatizing life experience with an imaginary story I made up about the OP in my head. I was trying to present the idea that people might have different experiences that would warrant needing a night nurse but you weren't even arguing that point so I can see why you felt my comments were unhelpful. I am very sorry if you felt I was attacking you or negating your experience.
Can we all be friends again and let this thread die?
And can you all promise me if I lose my sh*t when this baby comes you won't all tell me I'm a terrible mom if I need help?
I so admire you for saying this, and I understand where you're coming from.
No one will tell you you're a terrible mom if you lose your shit when baby comes. It's totally okay to need help!
@penelope4612 we all have "freak out" moments as moms... gosh, today I thought, "There is NO way in heck I can hack a 7th..." When I know I totally can.
(((Wanted to revise the following... If you are in a hard spot or struggling you do what you need... You the mama! Because what is best for a mama/family is also most often what is best for a baby. But I didn't want to delete because that's tacky and tampers with the thread))))
Want to also add I have two close friends who have children with severe special needs... neither of them have nannies, in-home care or "night nurses". I'm pretty sure if they can hack night feedings for YEARS... due to feeding tubes and such... we all can mother our typical babies for a season of sleep interruptions... right? Additionally, it actually a pretty sweet thing getting up in the night to love and care for your baby ... once you surrender to it.
@penelope4612 we all have "freak out" moments as moms... gosh, today I thought, "There is NO way in heck I can hack a 7th..." When I know I totally can.
Want to also add I have two close friends who have children with severe special needs... neither of them have nannies, in-home care or "night nurses". I'm pretty sure if they can hack night feedings for YEARS... due to feeding tubes and such... we all can mother our typical babies for a season of sleep interruptions... right? Additionally, it actually a pretty sweet thing getting up in the night to love and care for your baby ... once you surrender to it.
No. This is not right. Not everyone has an equal set of mental and emotional tools. It's not a requirement for having kids, some times people are unaware of some mental/emotional challenges they have before hand. This is absolutely not right. It is common for households to be fairly isolated from others and being part of a close knit community where loved ones may see a struggling mother and step in to help out is less common than not. In this case, hired help is often a proxy for that. An ideal one? Maybe not. But I don't have that many close friends who have babies and yet I have at least one whose kid would not have survived if the care was left up to the wife. This is not just about a hypothetical for a post made by someone that hasn't been active in the board. The board is read by tons of people. Yea wanting hired help as a luxury is one example and I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing strong opinions about any of it. But my strong opinion is that it is not just the extreme one in a million case that a mom finds herself unable to care for a newborn and without a partner or a community to get help from. Telling that mom that just because some other mom is winning the burden or pain olympics with their situation and is able to get through it, they should too, is so so hurtful. For all parties.
Beyond having someone watch your kid when both parents are working, or say date night or something along those lines...I don't know why someone would hire someone to do the normal parent stuff. I mean, I'm a FTM, so maybe I'm just clueless....just seems a little weird to me. Like the super rich people you see on tv who don't even raise their kids, but have the nanny do everything, when they don't even work.
I'm not overly invovled on here, but I think I'm fairly invovled...I've never seen OP on here before. People had every reason to react the way they did.
@slartybartfast no I agree... I think I failed to communicate my thought well. There at for sure circumstances that fall outside of this. My point was... Neither of my friends were prepared to parent children with extreme special needs, until they did it! We don't know our own capacity until we are tried. That was my thought. And circumstances change... And a time might come that we need help, asking for it or seeking it out isn't the issue, just choosing not to be an active parent is! Adoption kicks my butt at times... One of my kid's needs push me to my emotional and functional limits at times (particular in the past). And we sought respite and counsel... That's a intrigal part of parenting. But if I sent this child away or set up a "care provider" for her so I could avoid hard stuff I would be ceasing to be her mother in the true essence of the word.... Just like this child's 1st mom did. Even if It needed to happen, it's still not good for the child. That's where we get into sticky areas because people do have to make hard choices or abandon or abdicate their role as parents and at times its socially acceptable or even appropriate in many circumstances. My point is just that we don't know what we are capable of until we do it.
I just want to say how I love how maturely and eloquently everyone is disagreeing on this thread. I think that it speaks volumes about what kind of people I am in the company of, and I wish all discussions could go like this. Bravo, ladies!
@maamawaabangi - totally agree that I have never known what I'm capable of until being challenged. I also feel very strongly that I can't ever really know what another is experiencing. When someone I know nothing about is looking for info on help, my first conclusion would never be "you don't really need that"
Yeah, I don't think most people are saying that... What has been said (at least by me) is... I haven't needed it... Friends I know in difficult places haven't... And that's all I can testify to.
Plus, if someone is dissuaded from doing what is right for them based upon what a bunch of strangers say on a site there is more that they need to work through than hiring in-home help. I've agreed that different circumstances require different parenting choices.
Adding, I think you care deeply about people @slartybartfast just as I do... I'm caring about the needs of the baby and you of the mother, which isn't exclusive. I think we agree more than not, just in different ways. Where I fall is that I've parented a pretty wide spectrum of needs and of children and have personally seen the consequences of neglect and institutional care on a child... You add your wonderful perspective of a mama who has seen or experienced struggle in various forms. This convo needs both of our perspectives to be well rounded.
I might not get the warmest response, because I'm popping in from March 2017 after searching for info on night nurses...but it's hard not to feel like this is directed at anyone who might consider extra help, and not just at the random drive-by-poster.
Just for what it's worth, none of the people I know who have used night nurses have used them in lieu of ever taking care of their kids in the middle of the night, or as a way to just completely outsource parenting. They are an occasional splurge, like getting a sitter for a date night, except instead of dinner and a movie, the parents are opting to get some sleep. I know breastfeeding mothers who have used them, despite still getting up to feed their babies and/or pump, to have someone else handle the diapers and burping and dealing with the bottles and what have you for a few hours. And some who just prefer to have the person there as support in those late night moments where you feel like you're doing everything wrong and it's nice to have a professional standing by and reassuring you. At least one friend with severe PPA didn't actually miss a feeding or a diaper change, she was just able to get some precious moments of sleep in between, knowing there was an awake and attentive adult within reach of her baby while she got a little rest. That, plus the nurse did some laundry.
I'm planning to do it -- not every night, and not for long -- because I'm having twins and I'm concerned due to family history and other reasons about PPD. of course women have done twins, triplets, and more without any help and survived. Of course they have. But just like I'm not going to judge moms who get an epidural when women have been having unmedicated births for centuries, and those who take advantage of the nursery for a few hours despite rooming in being an option at their hospital, I just don't think this is worthy of so much judgment.
I know it is a luxury that not everyone is in a position to afford. I'm certainly not "recommending" it to anyone (I haven't even ever done it). But I would really really hate for other women to stumble on this thread like I did and have the same extremely hurt response that I did, and not seek out the help that might be best for them because of an apparently very strong stigma here. And I just wanted to point out that night nurses aren't always used in the way they're being talked about here.
I'm really sorry for barging in, I know this isn't my BMB, I just couldn't stop thinking about this thread.
@sourlemon just curious with the "taking shifts" with DH thing. If breastfeeding-- do you pump and provide bottles during DH's shift or was it formula?
I'm fortunate to be in CA where maternity laws are much better than most states, plus I work for an awesome company so I will most likely be doing most of it in the first few months while I am off and DH still has to wake up for work.
STUCK IN BOX I formula fed dd1 due to health issues with both myself and her. This baby I hope to breastfeed and/or pump more. I don't want to give "advice" on that aspect cuz I haven't done it, but we are planning on DH either doing pumped bottles or bring the baby to me in bed then changing the diaper. We shall see.
Re: Baby nurse/infant care specialist
TTC since June 2015
September Football Siggy
people have all different post partum experiences... For some it's not about exhaustion and bonding and managing comfort and ease. Post partum mental and emotional states can make life hell for people. And lack of sleep can exacerbate this. I have a friend whose wife literally could not care for her child for over a year after birth. It was so hard on him. I'm not saying that's the situation with OP but sometimes a mothers intuition may lead her to seek out extra support, even if she doesn't know exactly why yet. Why anyone would turn to mom judgement with this question is beyond me!
I'm still hesitant to sign on to the idea that we have to be perfectly friendly and giving to every drive by who uses this board as her personal Google. To me, that's rude and inconsiderate behavior. I'm not suggesting everyone gang up on the drive bys, but if some of us choose to say, "girl, no," we shouldn't be attacked for that either.
Me: 33 H: 36
Married: 12/14/13 DS: 1/29/09
BFP2: 10/9/15 MMC: 11/12/15
BFP3: 4/6/16 DD: 12/12/16
I dont want want to keep this alive, but I don't feel I should have to walk on eggshells about my feelings and experience (that are real and valid) when I am an active member of this community to speculate about a poster's intentions who's posted and ghosted to use us as her personal Google many times over. Somewhere we draw the line of being supportive of our actual community participants than being sensitive to an unconfirmed speculation of someone we know NOTHING about. I'm not going to feel bad because someone we don't know MIGHT have asked a question because they COULD suffer post-birth from PPD/PPA.
I'm honestly a little jaded about this conversation. Very surprised to see that the pendulum of support with some swings in favor of someone we don't know, with much speculation on the reason rather than understanding of someone who provides support day in and day out on this board and has valid, confirmed reasons for their response.
This. On my previous BMB, OP would have been eaten alive.
Nora Grace Due 12/26/2016
Two Angel Babies
07/03/2012
08/08/2015
"If you're still my small babe
or you're all the way grown,
my promise to you
is you're never alone.
You are my angel, my darling,
my star...and my love will find you,
wherever you are."
parent to do their job, but with help and support.
Parenting is hard. Sleep deprivation is hard. But it doesn't always shack out to be "that bad"... I've only had two of my children have hard seasons of this. One was with my 1 yo adopted daughter... I'd literally hold her while she thrashed endlessly because she was so traumatized. She literally could nt shut down and allow herself to rest she was so fearful. And I knew if I handed her off to anyone else I'd be encouraging her to doubt her trust in me. Holding your child and caring for their needs (at night) makes you a parent. A stranger doing that same job is a form of institutional care, it's not the same and a baby will know it. If you're trying to make it easier on yourself by abdicating your responsibilities, trust me, you will only make it harder on yourself in the long run. One of my meditations is "doing hard things only makes me stronger... So lean into it!"
Ive never ever regretted a single hour spent caring for my children at night. They are sweet times that I will miss and look back on with fondness.
Due December 27th with baby #7
I don't think it's wrong to give opinions against what the OP originally says- maybe they had never considered the other side of it before. There's no reason to not discuss parenting views- much can be learned from it!
@DiFazette - my goal was not to somehow compare your extemely challenging and traumatizing life experience with an imaginary story I made up about the OP in my head. I was trying to present the idea that people might have different experiences that would warrant needing a night nurse but you weren't even arguing that point so I can see why you felt my comments were unhelpful. I am very sorry if you felt I was attacking you or negating your experience.
Can we all be friends again and let this thread die?
And can you all promise me if I lose my sh*t when this baby comes you won't all tell me I'm a terrible mom if I need help?
No one will tell you you're a terrible mom if you lose your shit when baby comes. It's totally okay to need help!
Me: 33 H: 36
Married: 12/14/13 DS: 1/29/09
BFP2: 10/9/15 MMC: 11/12/15
BFP3: 4/6/16 DD: 12/12/16
(((Wanted to revise the following... If you are in a hard spot or struggling you do what you need... You the mama! Because what is best for a mama/family is also most often what is best for a baby. But I didn't want to delete because that's tacky and tampers with the thread))))
Want to also add I have two close friends who have children with severe special needs... neither of them have nannies, in-home care or "night nurses". I'm pretty sure if they can hack night feedings for YEARS... due to feeding tubes and such... we all can mother our typical babies for a season of sleep interruptions... right?
Additionally, it actually a pretty sweet thing getting up in the night to love and care for your baby ... once you surrender to it.
Due December 27th with baby #7
This is not just about a hypothetical for a post made by someone that hasn't been active in the board. The board is read by tons of people. Yea wanting hired help as a luxury is one example and I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing strong opinions about any of it. But my strong opinion is that it is not just the extreme one in a million case that a mom finds herself unable to care for a newborn and without a partner or a community to get help from. Telling that mom that just because some other mom is winning the burden or pain olympics with their situation and is able to get through it, they should too, is so so hurtful. For all parties.
Edit:
The bump ate the rest of what I said!
Beyond having someone watch your kid when both parents are working, or say date night or something along those lines...I don't know why someone would hire someone to do the normal parent stuff. I mean, I'm a FTM, so maybe I'm just clueless....just seems a little weird to me. Like the super rich people you see on tv who don't even raise their kids, but have the nanny do everything, when they don't even work.
I'm not overly invovled on here, but I think I'm fairly invovled...I've never seen OP on here before. People had every reason to react the way they did.
no I agree... I think I failed to communicate my thought well. There at for sure circumstances that fall outside of this.
My point was... Neither of my friends were prepared to parent children with extreme special needs, until they did it! We don't know our own capacity until we are tried. That was my thought.
And circumstances change... And a time might come that we need help, asking for it or seeking it out isn't the issue, just choosing not to be an active parent is!
Adoption kicks my butt at times... One of my kid's needs push me to my emotional and functional limits at times (particular in the past). And we sought respite and counsel... That's a intrigal part of parenting. But if I sent this child away or set up a "care provider" for her so I could avoid hard stuff I would be ceasing to be her mother in the true essence of the word.... Just like this child's 1st mom did. Even if It needed to happen, it's still not good for the child. That's where we get into sticky areas because people do have to make hard choices or abandon or abdicate their role as parents and at times its socially acceptable or even appropriate in many circumstances.
My point is just that we don't know what we are capable of until we do it.
Due December 27th with baby #7
Due December 27th with baby #7
Plus, if someone is dissuaded from doing what is right for them based upon what a bunch of strangers say on a site there is more that they need to work through than hiring in-home help. I've agreed that different circumstances require different parenting choices.
Adding, I think you care deeply about people @slartybartfast just as I do... I'm caring about the needs of the baby and you of the mother, which isn't exclusive. I think we agree more than not, just in different ways.
Where I fall is that I've parented a pretty wide spectrum of needs and of children and have personally seen the consequences of neglect and institutional care on a child... You add your wonderful perspective of a mama who has seen or experienced struggle in various forms. This convo needs both of our perspectives to be well rounded.
Due December 27th with baby #7
Just for what it's worth, none of the people I know who have used night nurses have used them in lieu of ever taking care of their kids in the middle of the night, or as a way to just completely outsource parenting. They are an occasional splurge, like getting a sitter for a date night, except instead of dinner and a movie, the parents are opting to get some sleep. I know breastfeeding mothers who have used them, despite still getting up to feed their babies and/or pump, to have someone else handle the diapers and burping and dealing with the bottles and what have you for a few hours. And some who just prefer to have the person there as support in those late night moments where you feel like you're doing everything wrong and it's nice to have a professional standing by and reassuring you. At least one friend with severe PPA didn't actually miss a feeding or a diaper change, she was just able to get some precious moments of sleep in between, knowing there was an awake and attentive adult within reach of her baby while she got a little rest. That, plus the nurse did some laundry.
I'm planning to do it -- not every night, and not for long -- because I'm having twins and I'm concerned due to family history and other reasons about PPD. of course women have done twins, triplets, and more without any help and survived. Of course they have. But just like I'm not going to judge moms who get an epidural when women have been having unmedicated births for centuries, and those who take advantage of the nursery for a few hours despite rooming in being an option at their hospital, I just don't think this is worthy of so much judgment.
I know it is a luxury that not everyone is in a position to afford. I'm certainly not "recommending" it to anyone (I haven't even ever done it). But I would really really hate for other women to stumble on this thread like I did and have the same extremely hurt response that I did, and not seek out the help that might be best for them because of an apparently very strong stigma here. And I just wanted to point out that night nurses aren't always used in the way they're being talked about here.
I'm really sorry for barging in, I know this isn't my BMB, I just couldn't stop thinking about this thread.