So disgusted...

Ampip2270 · July 2016

Warning this post will probably make your blood boil... A "in-law distant family member via marriage" is also pregnant right now, just found out she's been doing drugs and smoking cigarettes and her baby has a cleft palate and more than likely other deformities. I am so incredibly sad about this. She already doesn't have custodywith her first two because of being an unfit mother and this just drives me bonkers! Then this chick has the audacity today to ask people at our family gathering if they brought and weed to smoke while puffing on down her cigarettes. I want to cry, I want to slap her, I want to slap her bf, I want to slap her mom... I just want to scream at the top of my lungs WTF are you doing there are people out there who want babies and can't have them and you go and get knocked up on a drug deal and are destroyign your baby's life. I just can't take it. Im sorry if reading this makes you as mad as me, but I had to get it off my chest. I can talk to my husband about it but can't really mention it to others.

Ah825 · July 2016

That's terrible and so sad. There are so many disturbing things in our world and it's so paibful to see them first hand! I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut if she were doing something like that in front of me.

ruemcclanahan · July 2016

Ughhhhhhhhhhhh that really upsets me.
so many people have children with birth defects and disabilities and they did nothing wrong and then there are people like this who don't even care about what they are doing to their baby

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

If she doesn't have custody of her older children, and she's been behaving so irresponsibly, CPS will probably take the baby home from the hospital. It's horrible that her unborn child is already suffering the consequences of her selfish choices.

618mom22boys · July 2016

My 16 y/o sperm donors girlfriend had their 3rd baby in March, 6 weeks early. The baby tested positive for Meth! They ended up getting all 3 kids taken away from them.

As sad as it is to say I was hoping that the kids wouldn't be going back to them. But by the look of things it seems there are some things they are doing to get them back. One of which is he had to get a job. Which is good for me, I got my 1St child support payment in 3 years.

I just hope they don't go back to the same bs. But I'm sure they will. He's been on Meth since before I had my son.

RedMar · July 2016

I'm sorry to hear of the selfish decisions she's making. Her child will never forgive her for her irresponsible actions. She needs serious help

asht · July 2016

Without knowing the whole situation of things there really isn't any room to judge or make assumptions. It's said for the baby yes but who knows what is going on with that mother.

Bibliobebe · July 2016

@asht Are you freaking for real?

Alyeena · July 2016

asht said:

Without knowing the whole situation of things there really isn't any room to judge or make assumptions. It's said for the baby yes but who knows what is going on with that mother.

WHAT THE FUCK? There is NO good reason for taking drugs or smoking while pregnant.

This kind of thing makes me so angry too. It is so unfair for the poor baby that will have to live with the consequences of his mother's acts. Possibly for a really long time.

And on my side, it took me and my husband 4 years, IVF and a loss before we finally conceived this baby. And seeing people, or hearing about them, that would act like this? It's like twisting a knife in the wound and adding salt at the same time.

yellowrose314 · July 2016

asht said:

Without knowing the whole situation of things there really isn't any room to judge or make assumptions. It's said for the baby yes but who knows what is going on with that mother.

Oh totally, I'm sure there's a great explanation, like someone was holding her at gunpoint forcing her to smoke and do drugs while she's pregnant. <please note extreme sarcasm>. Seriously, I rolled my eyes so hard at this post that my retinas almost detached.

asht · July 2016

Yea I am for real. Being a therapist I see things differently and really struggle to judge without knowing. And yea it wasn't easy for us to get this baby here either....

yellowrose314 · July 2016

Whether or not she's doing it as coping mechanism, doesn't make it right. Yes, people go through some hard shit, but when you start dumping that on your kids, in utero, I will judge the ever living crap out of you.

asht · July 2016

Nope doesn't make it right. There are lots of things not right in the world.

Bibliobebe · July 2016

I'm walking away from this thread now. I'm only going to say this to OP - People can be shit. Babies don't deserve it. You have a right to be mad. It's justified anger. Most everyone else is on the same page with you and you absolutely don't have to reevaluate your feelings.

Just because there are a lot of "not right" things in the world, doesn't mean we can't be mad about them.

Sending a million hugs.

SuperFudge00 · July 2016

@asht

As a therapist you are a mandated reporter, you understand what child abuse and neglect are. Despite that the law does not apply to the baby in utero, you understand the consequences. Your reply is baffling.

asht · July 2016

Yes I am and have made several reports in my short time in the field. I still have to work with everybody and work with many kids that are the results of poor choices by parents. I am obligated to try and help create change regardless of my personal opinion of situations.

People do stupid and crazy things all the time. Most times with lots of regret after. I've done stupid things in life (not baby related) and had "bad mom moments" everybody has. I would like to hope people around people in this situations would be trying to find ways to make a change, mad or not.

Im not saying people can't be mad cause they can, just like I can have a different view point as well.

SuperFudge00 · July 2016

But what does her "background" have to do with it?

ruemcclanahan · July 2016

@asht but this isn't a one time bad mom moment... This is a repeated crazy stupid action. If it was a one time slip up yeah sure who can judge but it's not.

cassloumy · July 2016

I'm really sad to have come out of my busy time when I couldn't follow/participate in threads to find this BMB resorting to the typical Internet blind lack of understanding in a way it wholeheartedly shunned before.

My heart is breaking for this whole situation. The thing about addiction is that it's a disease, and one of the symptoms is that addicts act terribly. I would be fighting between my desire to fight for that baby and my heartbreak at how the parents can't seem to behave responsibly. At the end of the day the baby is the one that suffers for the mother's sins. That makes me unbelievably sad and futilely angry. That's why I think the disgust is warranted for what's being done to an innocent baby, but I definitely can also see where @asht is coming from. I'm someone who has dealt with addiction and recovery in my family, so I do have an idea of what I'm talking about. I can't hate this woman even though she's doing something terrible. I just wish I could help her.

Finally, and a bit tangentially, I don't think it's ever fair to throw "some people struggle to get pregnant" out there against any mother. Yes, it's unfair; and, yes we all know very deserving people who would provide a wonderful home for a baby who suffer from watching others throw away the experience. But, in reality both are super difficult and emotional things that don't have any cause or effect on each other

Ampip2270 · July 2016

Sad part is, she doesn't want to change. She doesn't think there is anything wrong witht what she's doing. She doesnt "believe" all the research, thinks results Re made up because her mama smoked and drank while pregnant and "she turned out alright"

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

asht said:

Yes I am and have made several reports in my short time in the field. I still have to work with everybody and work with many kids that are the results of poor choices by parents. I am obligated to try and help create change regardless of my personal opinion of situations.

People do stupid and crazy things all the time. Most times with lots of regret after. I've done stupid things in life (not baby related) and had "bad mom moments" everybody has. I would like to hope people around people in this situations would be trying to find ways to make a change, mad or not.

Im not saying people can't be mad cause they can, just like I can have a different view point as well.

This isn't a "bad mom moment", like "whoops, my kid fell off the bed."

This isn't even just a repeated compulsive behavior. We're talking about a total lack of regard for baby's safety and an openly hurtful attitude.

Yes, some situations are extreme enough that they can be judged on the face of things.

This "without knowing the whole situation, we can't judge" attitude leaves no room for opinions about anything, ever. Some things are just plain wrong.

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

@asht I would ask you to consider if defending unabashed prenatal drug abuse is the hill you'd like to die on.

Cricket Bug · July 2016

@cassloumy Re: "I don't think it's ever fair to throw "some people struggle to get pregnant" out there against any mother." Maybe not, but it's the reality. My rage against this person is drastically intensified by my history. Every person's life experiences mold them and lead to the final reaction. To deny this is to deny a 'whole person'. Which is less fair?

Edited because I am too pissed, too early, for complete thoughts.

cassloumy · July 2016

@Cricket Bug I don't think it's fair to compare the two. They're like a terrible apple and an awful orange.

asht · July 2016

KimmySchmidt said:

asht said:

Yes I am and have made several reports in my short time in the field. I still have to work with everybody and work with many kids that are the results of poor choices by parents. I am obligated to try and help create change regardless of my personal opinion of situations.

People do stupid and crazy things all the time. Most times with lots of regret after. I've done stupid things in life (not baby related) and had "bad mom moments" everybody has. I would like to hope people around people in this situations would be trying to find ways to make a change, mad or not.

Im not saying people can't be mad cause they can, just like I can have a different view point as well.

This isn't a "bad mom moment", like "whoops, my kid fell off the bed."

This isn't even just a repeated compulsive behavior. We're talking about a total lack of regard for baby's safety and an openly hurtful attitude.

Yes, some situations are extreme enough that they can be judged on the face of things.

This "without knowing the whole situation, we can't judge" attitude leaves no room for opinions about anything, ever. Some things are just plain wrong.

So it's ok to only have an opinion only if it agrees with the majority?

Cricket Bug · July 2016

asht said:

KimmySchmidt said:

asht said:

Yes I am and have made several reports in my short time in the field. I still have to work with everybody and work with many kids that are the results of poor choices by parents. I am obligated to try and help create change regardless of my personal opinion of situations.

People do stupid and crazy things all the time. Most times with lots of regret after. I've done stupid things in life (not baby related) and had "bad mom moments" everybody has. I would like to hope people around people in this situations would be trying to find ways to make a change, mad or not.

Im not saying people can't be mad cause they can, just like I can have a different view point as well.

This isn't a "bad mom moment", like "whoops, my kid fell off the bed."

This isn't even just a repeated compulsive behavior. We're talking about a total lack of regard for baby's safety and an openly hurtful attitude.

Yes, some situations are extreme enough that they can be judged on the face of things.

This "without knowing the whole situation, we can't judge" attitude leaves no room for opinions about anything, ever. Some things are just plain wrong.

So it's ok to only have an opinion only if it agrees with the majority?

That isn't at all what @KimmySchmidt said, but if you are looking to escalate this you are going about it the right way...

Cricket Bug · July 2016

@cassloumy I didn't take it as a comparison, because you are right, there is none.

asht · July 2016

KimmySchmidt said:

@asht I would ask you to consider if defending unabashed prenatal drug abuse is the hill you'd like to die on.

I would pick that over being filled with hate/bitterness.

Thscary · July 2016

when I was still in college, I did a clinical rotation at a NICU. The saddest was to see all the babies that were withdrawaling from drugs after birth. They would cry and cry all day long and often were alone. I remember one 29 weeker who was fighting for his life and his parents were nowhere to be seen. I left that rotation in tears most days and so angry with the parents, who not only harmed their children but didn't seem to care either.

Bottom line is there is no excuse for harming your children before they have a chance at life. I don't care what you have been through in your life, pull yourself together and stop being a selfish POS.

drmh22 · July 2016

This would make me furious as well. Unborn babies have only their mothers to advocate for them, and are at the complete mercy of the mother's choices. There is really nothing anyone can do to change that. So when a mother has complete and continued disregard for her child's health and well-being, yeah, I'm going to judge her.

Edited because words are hard.

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

asht said:

KimmySchmidt said:

@asht I would ask you to consider if defending unabashed prenatal drug abuse is the hill you'd like to die on.

I would pick that over being filled with hate/bitterness.

That is a false choice. None of my comments, nor any comments made by previous posters have been "filled with hate/bitterness." (Although I could argue there is a clear implication within your statement that anyone making any judgements about this lady is filled with hate/bitterness, and that you are therefore accusing myself and other posters of being hateful, I will overlook that hypocrisy.)

What I do see, is a lot of women expressing more concern for an unborn baby than they have concern about judging a woman who is openly and unabashedly abusing drugs during her pregnancy.

And in response to your previous post, no one said that you could not have a dissenting opinion. You are free to your opinion. I am disagreeing with it. I am free to do that as well. Expressing your opinion does not give you immunity from criticism for that opinion.

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

asht said:

KimmySchmidt said:

asht said:

Yes I am and have made several reports in my short time in the field. I still have to work with everybody and work with many kids that are the results of poor choices by parents. I am obligated to try and help create change regardless of my personal opinion of situations.

People do stupid and crazy things all the time. Most times with lots of regret after. I've done stupid things in life (not baby related) and had "bad mom moments" everybody has. I would like to hope people around people in this situations would be trying to find ways to make a change, mad or not.

Im not saying people can't be mad cause they can, just like I can have a different view point as well.

This isn't a "bad mom moment", like "whoops, my kid fell off the bed."

This isn't even just a repeated compulsive behavior. We're talking about a total lack of regard for baby's safety and an openly hurtful attitude.

Yes, some situations are extreme enough that they can be judged on the face of things.

This "without knowing the whole situation, we can't judge" attitude leaves no room for opinions about anything, ever. Some things are just plain wrong.

So it's ok to only have an opinion only if it agrees with the majority?

I said no such thing. In fact, you are the only person stating that it is wrong to have an opinion on the situation. And I quote again, "Without knowing the whole situation, we can't judge."

asht · July 2016

KimmySchmidt said:

asht said:

KimmySchmidt said:

@asht I would ask you to consider if defending unabashed prenatal drug abuse is the hill you'd like to die on.

I would pick that over being filled with hate/bitterness.

That is a false choice. None of my comments, nor any comments made by previous posters have been "filled with hate/bitterness." (Although I could argue there is a clear implication within your statement that anyone making any judgements about this lady is filled with hate/bitterness, and that you are therefore accusing myself and other posters of being hateful, I will overlook that hypocrisy.)

What I do see, is a lot of women expressing more concern for an unborn baby than they have concern about judging a woman who is openly and unabashedly abusing drugs during her pregnancy.

And in response to your previous post, no one said that you could not have a dissenting opinion. You are free to your opinion. I am disagreeing with it. I am free to do that as well. Expressing your opinion does not give you immunity from criticism for that opinion.

No for me the opposite of compassion and understand is hate and bitterness.

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

asht said:

KimmySchmidt said:

asht said:

KimmySchmidt said:

@asht I would ask you to consider if defending unabashed prenatal drug abuse is the hill you'd like to die on.

I would pick that over being filled with hate/bitterness.

That is a false choice. None of my comments, nor any comments made by previous posters have been "filled with hate/bitterness." (Although I could argue there is a clear implication within your statement that anyone making any judgements about this lady is filled with hate/bitterness, and that you are therefore accusing myself and other posters of being hateful, I will overlook that hypocrisy.)

What I do see, is a lot of women expressing more concern for an unborn baby than they have concern about judging a woman who is openly and unabashedly abusing drugs during her pregnancy.

And in response to your previous post, no one said that you could not have a dissenting opinion. You are free to your opinion. I am disagreeing with it. I am free to do that as well. Expressing your opinion does not give you immunity from criticism for that opinion.

No for me the opposite of compassion and understand is hate and bitterness.

Then you need to work on your antonyms.

TheTamedShrew · July 2016

@asht, you're doing an awful lot of finger wagging for someone who is trying to take a stand against judgment. One may not fully be aware of someone's history or why they make terrible choices, but that doesn't mean one can not be appalled by those choices. Would you try to defend a mentally ill person who decides to shoot people in a crowd because you "don't know their history"? Sure, there needs to be some changes in the system in how mental disabilities and addiction are handled/provided for, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a victim in this situation. In the same vein, every person on this board has a history of experiences that could cause them to react a certain way to this particular situation, and there shouldn't be judgment for their reactions either. The bottom line is that this mother's decision to abuse drugs is going to cause a lot of hurt and pain for her unborn child, and that is incredibly heartbreaking. You don't need to know the mother's history to understand that. People are allowed to feel angry and defensive of that child without be called hateful and bitter.

Also, @KimmySchmidt you get all the love its today. You expressed my opinion so much more eloquently than I could.

hey_clever_girl · July 2016

KimmySchmidt said:

asht said:

Yes I am and have made several reports in my short time in the field. I still have to work with everybody and work with many kids that are the results of poor choices by parents. I am obligated to try and help create change regardless of my personal opinion of situations.

People do stupid and crazy things all the time. Most times with lots of regret after. I've done stupid things in life (not baby related) and had "bad mom moments" everybody has. I would like to hope people around people in this situations would be trying to find ways to make a change, mad or not.

Im not saying people can't be mad cause they can, just like I can have a different view point as well.

This isn't a "bad mom moment", like "whoops, my kid fell off the bed."

This isn't even just a repeated compulsive behavior. We're talking about a total lack of regard for baby's safety and an openly hurtful attitude.

Yes, some situations are extreme enough that they can be judged on the face of things.

This "without knowing the whole situation, we can't judge" attitude leaves no room for opinions about anything, ever. Some things are just plain wrong.

^^^ THIS. There are some situations where one can say "Well, let's not judge. We don't know the whole story." Abusing drugs and drinking while pregnant? Not one of those. Like, I get it, it sucks if you're an addict. I'm still going to judge the ever-loving f*** out of you if you continue your drug abuse through pregnancy. I judge mothers who SMOKE during their pregnancies, and I do so without feeling bad about it. Give it up for 9 months, or get some help if you can't.

mom2adoodle · July 2016

@asht You're a therapist? What kind? I am a licensed marriage and family therapist. However, my line of work does not mean I cannot have feelings about a situation (especially one that is a story I read on the internet, not a client I know first hand). I agree that the mother in the original post probably needs help and has a lot going on (most addicts do) but that does not take away from the sadness we can feel for the innocent baby who is a product of those bad decisions. Therapist cap on or not, using drugs, let alone using drugs while pregnant, is NOT a healthy coping skill and is a bad decision. I'm actually a little turned off by the fact that you're using our career choice as a way to tell others that their feelings are wrong to have. That seems very hypocritical, especially in this post.

asht · July 2016

mom2adoodle said:

@asht You're a therapist? What kind? I am a licensed marriage and family therapist. However, my line of work does not mean I cannot have feelings about a situation (especially one that is a story I read on the internet, not a client I know first hand). I agree that the mother in the original post probably needs help and has a lot going on (most addicts do) but that does not take away from the sadness we can feel for the innocent baby who is a product of those bad decisions. Therapist cap on or not, using drugs, let alone using drugs while pregnant, is NOT a healthy coping skill and is a bad decision. I'm actually a little turned off by the fact that you're using our career choice as a way to tell others that their feelings are wrong to have. That seems very hypocritical, especially in this post.

Again never said any bodies feeling or opinions are wrong simply stated mine. If we want to play the telling people they are wrong it could go both ways.

That said, my final post on this topic, if the mother ha been using for awhile, if she did or didn't want help, might not of been an option. Depending on the factors of the addiction it could be more of a risk to child/ mother to stop during pregnancy then to continue. There are just many parts to this story that it's not really, at least for me, able to come to a judgement about it. Do I personally feel using anything in pregnancy is ok? No but at the same time it could be a case of what is the best option of all the crappy options. If the addiction is bad enough that if a person quotes during pregnancy it could end up in loss of a the baby all together and I can say, again in my opinion, that that would be the best option either. There is so much of a speed of what can actually happen to a child that it is hard to say. I have worked with both ends.

Again in is using ok? No but instead of jumping to how sick and wrong it is, it should be looked at how can we help that child in this situation? We can judge and state opinions all we want but the only way to make the situation somewhat bearable is find ways to help. That might mean that the original poster calls as reports constantly for something to happen.

Many career isn't being used to brush off opinions it is used on my end to try and see the whole picture regardless of how crappy the situation is. I have said from the get go everybody gets there opinions and I hesitated to post because I knew mine wouldn't sit well but wanted to throw it out there as another perspective. And why this person is making some poor choices there are certain things that follow people even after change that unfortunately are not fair in life.

Ok, done with this thread we can all agree to disagree on our thoughts and feelings around this situation and move forward.

AnnaS930 · July 2016

I've kept my mouth shut, but just an FYI. Quitting is arguably always the best option during pregnancy when it comes to substance abuse. There are medications that can be taken to wean off of drugs while pregnant or not, most of which have quite a bit of historic use during pregnancy and are regulated, so you aren't running the risk of using drugs that are laced with mysterious substances, injecting unsafely/sharing needles, etc etc etc. There is help out there and de-tox programs both in-patient and out-patient clinics. We approve medications for pregnant drug abusers/alcoholics every day in the Medcaid programs I work for. I would be shocked to hear a medical professional encourage a patient to continue being a drug abuser for the health of their unborn baby...

fireflygirl12 · July 2016

Most addicts are "misunderstood" or have some backstory for why they are using. That's usually why they started using in the first place, and the victim mentality justifies (in their mind) their continued use. It's no reason to justify their behavior or walk on eggshells about how they are behaving. --a former addict.

TheTamedShrew · July 2016

asht said:

Without knowing the whole situation of things there really isn't any room to judge or make assumptions. It's said for the baby yes but who knows what is going on with that mother.

This was your original post. Saying "there isn't any room to judge or make assumptions" sounds like you are reprimanding others for judging the situation. It doesn't say "my personal opinion" or "that's really terrible, I wish I could get help for that mother and child." You also implied that we were all "hateful and bitter" because we weren't being "compassionate and understanding" like you. You also threw your career into the mix, as if that gives you some kind of higher insight or perspective on this situation. It doesn't, nor does it change the fact that there is an innocent child being put at risk, but good job back pedaling and then running away from the discussion. I guess you realized just how high that horse was.

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