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Baby Names
clmacneil
member
Married since 10/10/15
Little Girl due 10/10/16
To Use or Not To Use Traditional Gaelic Names
clmacneil
member
in Baby Names
Howdy
My husband and I are both American born Irish and spent our honeymoon in Ireland, we quickly agreed that we wanted to go Irish for our daughter's name. However we can't agree on girl's names (boy names, forget it, we were done). I'm a teacher and I'm really really nervous to go "full Gaelic" for a first name-- I know what it's like to stare at a list and not know how to say it, the look the kids get when you ask them to pronounce it (frustration, anger, resentment, or sometimes just good ol' fashioned pity), and I worry about setting a kid up for the CONSTANT questioning of "How do you pronounce it"/"How do you spell it?". Not to mention the lifelong butchering of spelling that will inevitably happen (my name is Irish, 4 letters, not particularly hard to say or spell and it gets butchered constantly, especially over the phone).
My husband is SET on Saoirse. He likes Aoife and Niamh too. He insists I'm being silly about naming the baby and I just want to go "mainstream". Originally we both liked Rowan and Regan and said we'd go Gaelic for the middle name but as the baby's due date approaches he's more and more set on one of his Gaelic names. I don't dislike the names-- I think the pronunciation is beautiful and I think the spelling is pretty, my concern is that they just don't go together (Sur-sha, Eefa, and Neev). His sister has fully backed him because her kids have unique names and she insists the kids will learn how to say it and spell it and everyone else will too....but 2 of her kids don't really have odd names (odd middle names sure, but the first names are really common) and her 1 kid with a weird first name....well that kid has a simple easy nickname that EVERYONE uses rather than the name. He's in first grade and nothing he writes has his longer, odder name on it-- everything is the simple easy nickname. When I pointed this out I was poo-pooed--even when I said none of the girls names on the table have easy nicknames and thus it wasn't a fair comparison everyone said I was just being too sensitive and clearly just didn't like the names. I don't like that none of them seem concerned about what the kid will endure with her name.
I want to know if I'm being overly sensitive. I like the names, I like the spellings, I just think it's too intense and it's going to be a huge pain for a little kid (and, frankly, a huge pain forever for the kid). I really want the name picked and agreed on--- I don't think it's right for us to go in divided on the name, neither one of us would be ok with it if the other bogarted the birth certificate and just picked without the other's consent. If I am just being neurotic I can take a deep breath and really embrace those names-- I do think they are pretty.
Thoughts?
My husband and I are both American born Irish and spent our honeymoon in Ireland, we quickly agreed that we wanted to go Irish for our daughter's name. However we can't agree on girl's names (boy names, forget it, we were done). I'm a teacher and I'm really really nervous to go "full Gaelic" for a first name-- I know what it's like to stare at a list and not know how to say it, the look the kids get when you ask them to pronounce it (frustration, anger, resentment, or sometimes just good ol' fashioned pity), and I worry about setting a kid up for the CONSTANT questioning of "How do you pronounce it"/"How do you spell it?". Not to mention the lifelong butchering of spelling that will inevitably happen (my name is Irish, 4 letters, not particularly hard to say or spell and it gets butchered constantly, especially over the phone).
My husband is SET on Saoirse. He likes Aoife and Niamh too. He insists I'm being silly about naming the baby and I just want to go "mainstream". Originally we both liked Rowan and Regan and said we'd go Gaelic for the middle name but as the baby's due date approaches he's more and more set on one of his Gaelic names. I don't dislike the names-- I think the pronunciation is beautiful and I think the spelling is pretty, my concern is that they just don't go together (Sur-sha, Eefa, and Neev). His sister has fully backed him because her kids have unique names and she insists the kids will learn how to say it and spell it and everyone else will too....but 2 of her kids don't really have odd names (odd middle names sure, but the first names are really common) and her 1 kid with a weird first name....well that kid has a simple easy nickname that EVERYONE uses rather than the name. He's in first grade and nothing he writes has his longer, odder name on it-- everything is the simple easy nickname. When I pointed this out I was poo-pooed--even when I said none of the girls names on the table have easy nicknames and thus it wasn't a fair comparison everyone said I was just being too sensitive and clearly just didn't like the names. I don't like that none of them seem concerned about what the kid will endure with her name.
I want to know if I'm being overly sensitive. I like the names, I like the spellings, I just think it's too intense and it's going to be a huge pain for a little kid (and, frankly, a huge pain forever for the kid). I really want the name picked and agreed on--- I don't think it's right for us to go in divided on the name, neither one of us would be ok with it if the other bogarted the birth certificate and just picked without the other's consent. If I am just being neurotic I can take a deep breath and really embrace those names-- I do think they are pretty.
Thoughts?
Married since 10/10/15 Little Girl due 10/10/16
Re: To Use or Not To Use Traditional Gaelic Names
I'm not sure who "everyone" calling you over sensitive is, but I'd recommend not including them in name debate.
Of the names you've listed, I like Saoirse best, and honestly think it's fairly well known as far as non anglicized names go.
Sometimes a fresh perspective and a little distance makes things clearer. Worst comes to worst, take a print out of the top 1000, two different color highlighters and go to town.
Maybe I'm just an ignorant American, but I could not have come CLOSE to pronouncing the first three you listed. You seem to be aware of the risks of using an uncommon name, and your concerns are legit. I would advocate for the middle name position and maybe try to find a 'mainstream' first name that is recognizable but not overused.
Congratulations and good luck!
As a mother who gave her child an ethnic name, I still chose something the average person would recognize.
If you don't like a name for any reason sensitive or not, you don't have to use it. You are a parent too and your H should not be bullying you into a decision.
Fwiw, names like Maeve or Siobhan are more recognizable and culturally appropriate, and a possible compromise.
My strongest reaction in reading your post was, Dear lord, get your families out of the conversation!! And yes, table the conversation. But no way should your sister-in-law's opinion be a stress factor. And I'm someone who believes family comes first, and never would have married anyone who my family didn't love/didn't love my family. They don't get a say in your kid's name. If you let them feel they're an equal voice now, parenting with them is going to be even harder later. Been there!!
Think;
Nora
Belinda
Agnes
Anna
Maureen
Meaghan
You have plenty of time, so table the name list for awhile, and come back to it with clear minds. Maybe look for something more mainstream that is Irish, like the previous poster suggested.
Last opinion - both of you should not have any reservations about the name (or at least, you both have the same reservations about the name). So if one of you does, it should be discarded
That said, I agree with everyone's advice that you guys should take a break from discussing this, and also remove everyone else from the conversation. At the end of the day the only opinions that matter are yours and your husband's, and it's important that you both agree on the chosen name. If you just can't get comfortable with the names suggested so far, you shouldn't feel pressured to choose one. And you should keep talking about options until you land on a name you both love.
Also so happy to throw out some suggestions for Irish girl names with less out there spelling if you like
Maeve comes to mind as it's similar to Niamh, but obviously easier to pronounce. Unfortunately it seems to be getting very popular in our area so it's not on our list atm.
We have a very Irish last name and it gets spelled wrong A LOT so I'm worried about the butchering (because I get annoyed having to constantly spell it out).
Do we have plenty of time? It feels like the walls are closing in! Hahaha
Which anglicized spelling were you looking at?
And he likes Maeve, I am a bit wishy-washy with it. I like it then I don't.
FWIW my maiden name is Regan (have also considered using this for a girl baby), and it's mispronounced and/or misspelled 75% of the time. I'm used to it, and I don't think that's as tough as something like Niamh, which just doesn't look anything like it sounds - unless you're familiar with Gaelic pronunciations
I actually know a few people who have named children Saoirse in recent years, so it might be becoming more mainstream in the US. Admittedly we know a lot of Irish-Americans, and I also work with a lot of people from Ireland and the U.K.
Another name on my list is Ailis/Ailish. I think it's pretty and more straightforward to pronounce, but DH isn't a fan (yet?).
Some other ideas:
Aileen
Bevin (I actually love this but it wouldn't work with our last name)
Mairead (probably #2 on our list right now after Niamh)
Erin
Clodagh
Maire
Maura
Nora
Rory
Orla
Of the first few names, Aiofe was the only once I knew how to pronounce, because I recently met one. But I really had to listen to the mom. Our playgroup had a child with a more unusual name, and it took months for some of us to figure out how to say the name. The other thing to think about is when she's older will it hurt her professionally, since people may be afraid to call on her?
That being said, my MIL is a Maura, and she said people say/spell it wrong all the time, and think its an unusual name. So going with a more anglicanized name, doesn't mean that people will get it. We have an Alfred, and I've been asked multiple times if its spelled with a ph. I think in the days of crazy spelled names, your probably going to be alright with a traditional gaelic name.
I don't think you are sensitive. I think you're being sensible to think very carefully before giving a child a name that comes from another language with very different pronunciation rules. On the other hand, being Irish-American, married to another Irish-American, and having close ties to your heritage, it may be something you want to commit to, in order to start your child off steeped in her Irish roots. It will help if you celebrate your Irish heritage in other ways as well. Will you keep other Irish traditions, or will this name be the only truly "Gaelic" think in an otherwise American life? If your kid will be raised as an Irish-American, she'll feel proud of her name, even if it's different. It will be just a part of the total package of her identity. If you are pretty much living an assimilated American suburban life, but you stick your kid with this weird Gaelic name because of a romantic honeymoon promise, then she'll resent it.
In the community where I live, there are many, many families who have recently immigrated from other countries, mostly from India and the Middle East. In my own kids' classes at their schools, it's as normal to see names like Deepika, Sreya, or Amman as it is to see Olivia, Emily, or Connor. It's also pretty normal for teachers to see unusual names from different nationalities that are hard to pronounce. So, if your DD were eventually going to school where I live, Saoirsa or Niamh would just be one more on the list that the teacher had to figure out on the first day. However, if your community is not one with a lot of new immigrants, these names will seem very unusual. And Gaelic is particularly hard, because the pronunciation is SO different from English. The adults I have known who have unusual or hard-to-pronounce names are divided. Some are proud and love their names; they think it's totally worth it. Others hate the hassle.
Personally, I think your SIL needs to back off for sure. It's not her discussion, and your H needs sort this out with you first, without bringing in a biased ally. Your H needs to respect your legitimate concerns and discuss them with you, not just brush you off as wanting to go "mainstream." You agreed to "Irish" names not necessarily Gaelic names. You're being sensibly concerned, and he's trying to pressure you by suggesting that you're being cowardly or that you are reneging on your agreement.
If you do go with a Gaelic name, you need to be 100% comfortable with it. My sense is that, of the 3 names, Saoirse and Niamh are a little more recognizable to people. (They get a lot of love on this board, at least, and no one ever seems to bat an eye at the pronunciation issue on here.) Aoife, to me, is less pretty and sounds like a noise rather than a name.
I am feeling better about Saoirse now that I see a bunch of people telling me it's more recognizable. I think my fear was that it would be like giving her a random name for life but several people have told me they are seeing it more. I do like it, I just don't want her to be SO unique that it's almost a burden. I also like your point that it's about where we live--- fairly diverse so we should see some other cool ethnic names to make her feel like she's not alone.
Amazing how the blog can me more comforting than my SIL insisting I'm overreacting
I I do think Saoirse is becoming more recognizable (maybe because of Saoirse Ronan?).
Also, I think the meaning, freedom, is a big part of the appeal
Me 28 DH 28 Married 2012
TTC #1 since March 2015
Metformin + Femara + Gonal F + Trigger = BFP 6/24/16
EDD 3/3/17
Found out it's a girl! 9/23/16
DO IT.
BFP May 16th 2016
DD born January 30 2017
Surprise BFP/MC April 2017
See I'm happy to hear people WITH Saoirse loving it!
I bet this will become a game day decision but I appreciate all the feedback-- I definitely feel less stressed about giving her a Gaelic name given where we live and the fact that many people with unique names (despite their challenges which are definitely unavoidable) have embraced them for their cultural significance.
I'm still pulling for the more "normal" name (Rowan) but now I'm definitely at ease with Saoirse.
My best friends name is the Dutch version of Aoife so I love that name but it's less common. I think Niamh will be very hard for people. (And if you simplify the spelling to Neve people will never know if it's "neeve" or "nev", I hear the actress' name pronounced both ways)
Also throwing in the suggestion of Oona as an Irish option.
FWIW Aoibheann is my guilty pleasure girl name. But we have a long foreign last name with a ton of vowels plus an apostrophe so that's just never going to happen!
What does everyone think of Neave? I think this is another "accepted" anglicization of Niamh, but I'm still on the fence.
Our other top contenders at this point are Mairead, Ailish, and possibly Aileen. I like that Mairead and Ailish are the Gaelic forms of family names we wouldn't use outright otherwise (Margaret/Alice).
I like Ailish and Aisling too (he doesn't). Aoibheann and Aoibhinn are definitely very long and very unique-- I would think it would depend somewhat on your last name and whatever you use in the middle. Aoibheann Mary Smith is more manageable than like Aoibheann Mairead O'Shaunghnessy.
I think it is cute to use the Gaelic version of Irish names in the family like Mairead and Ailish!
The issue with Niamh is it's hard to pronounce and it doesn't have a widely accepted anglicization - maybe because no version is as pretty as the original
Luckily we have a fairly straightforward last name (likely English descent). It's 2 syllables, starts with B and ends with D, so the only first names that really don't work for me are ones that start with B.
Mairead has been a favorite of mine for a long time, and I like that it honors my grandmother, Margaret (actually she was Italian and was christened Marguerite). So that seems like a good middle ground right now.