Circumcision

SuperFudge00 · May 2016

Circ for first, will circ for second. DH is circ'd. I've been with both and don't like intact. My experience in working with elderly patients is that it's an added area for neglect in the infirmed patient. I was flamed with this point on my last bmb but I can't help that it's what I see when I have to cath a patient or assist them with toileting.

I have to add that this is the most cordial discussion of a hot topic.

PJpeppercorn · May 2016

SuperFudge00 said:

Circ for first, will circ for second. DH is circ'd. I've been with both and don't like intact. My experience in working with elderly patients is that it's an added area for neglect in the infirmed patient. I was flamed with this point on my last bmb but I can't help that it's what I see when I have to cath a patient or assist them with toileting.

I have to add that this is the most cordial discussion of a hot topic.

This is such an interesting perspective and one I haven't heard before. I think of my little guy as an old man and having issues and it breaks my heart. You know you're hormonal when you're crying about something that will happen to your baby when they are 80!

SuperFudge00 · May 2016

jas1982 said:

@PSUBecky23 I think it is less common in the Western US and more common in Eastern? Something like that. The area we live in is very heavily Jewish, so I am thinking probably the norm here. Also the norm in my family, so cousins, dad, etc. (hopefully this child will not be seeing a lot of other grown men naked apart from dad, but other kids in family I could see being potentially nude). But that's a good point, there are a lot of places where it's much less common.

Um, no. I'm in California. Very common.

jas1982 · May 2016

@SuperFudge00 I read some articles similar to this saying as a region, it is less popular in the west than in other parts of the country, although I think it's still very common all over the US. Here's an example: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/08/22/214406903/popularity-of-circumcision-falls-in-u-s-especially-out-west

bartonolivia · May 2016

our first is circumsized and this one will be as well. It was just a personal preference for us to be honest. The nurses told us that he only cried for a few seconds after and was done. He came back super calm and content and it didn't seem to bother him one bit. All you have to do for aftercare is put some Vaseline on gauz for a couple weeks and it slowly gets less red and starts to looks normal. It never once bothered him!

SuperFudge00 · May 2016

jas1982 said:

@SuperFudge00 I read some articles similar to this saying as a region, it is less popular in the west than in other parts of the country, although I think it's still very common all over the US. Here's an example: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/08/22/214406903/popularity-of-circumcision-falls-in-u-s-especially-out-west

I read that article. I read other articles that imply the link is related to an increase in the Latin community with lack of access to healthcare beyond emergency services. Could be valid but other studies putting the west in the 30%s historically seem very low. Just wonder how they collect their data.

tinypikachu · May 2016

@SuperFudge00 good to keep in mind as well that the latino community is not big on circumcision. It's really just not common at all. Obviously this doesn't mean that there are no circ'd latinos but it could help explain the west/east difference.

SuperFudge00 · May 2016

AlwaysAuntNeverMom said:

@SuperFudge00 good to keep in mind as well that the latino community is not big on circumcision. It's really just not common at all. Obviously this doesn't mean that there are no circ'd latinos but it could help explain the west/east difference.

I've almost exclusively dated in the Latino community, I've experienced more circ'd than intact. But that's anecdotal.

RedMar · May 2016

Intact vs circumcised makes it sound so gruesome

Those stats are interesting. I personally have never seen an uncircumcised peen on a grown man, only a friend's son. I am on the east coast as well. I guess that's what made the decision for me, well I should say DH. He was not in favor of not circumcising DS. I know if this was a boy, we'd be doing it again.

AnnaS930 · May 2016

@RedMar my freshman year of high school I went on a school trip to england/France and saw male statues and cracked up asking my boyfriend what was going on with their penises... awkward for your boyfriend to teach you what an uncircumcised penises looks like. Whoops!

MojieJo · May 2016

Apparently, we're going to be having our boys circ'd unless something drastically changes.

I've been agonizing over it (for most of the reasons people have already mentioned) and DH was indifferent (I decided that his opinion carried more weight, being the only penis-possessing person in our marriage and therefore the one with more input), so it wasn't something we'd decided on, but he decided yesterday(?) that he thinks we should, so it's looking settled for us.

ivassaq · May 2016

We are team green. DH and I had this discussion with our first pregnancy but we had a girl so we never made a final decision. Now it's back on the table. If it was only my choice or if DH didn't give any shits then we probably wouldn't circumcise. Ultimately I have told him that he can make the final decision but I want to know that he gave it serious thought and isn't just doing it because he is circumcised. ugh. I really don't enjoy the decision. I try to ask myself if I would feel resentful if my parents permanently altered my body. If it didn't impact my sexual experience or health would I really care? I just don't know.

SarahDarah333 · May 2016

We are planning to do it- because DH is circumcised, and my brother was not as a baby and he had at least three different incidents where he had to go to the hospital because he had issues, once when he was a baby because the flap got stuck back and swelled up too big to be put back. I do feel a little funny about the whole thing, but I also have next to no experience with boys- I come from almost all girls, and I never lived with my brother his whole life (divorced parents, he's technically a half-brother, and he's 12 years younger than I am). So I kind of default to DH on this- penis related things are his turf lol!

noelani42 · May 2016

Team Green here so we've been discussing it again...I spoke with friends who have boys and all got it done except one who was a single mom and couldn't bear to do it....My husband's father wasn't and he got a really bad infection in his 20's leading to him needing to get it done then and he said it was the worst thing ever......my husband feels very strongly about getting it done, so we will...

ducks6 · May 2016

If we have a boy, we will circumcise. We are Jewish so it's a religious decision for us. Having said that, I think we likely would even if it wasn't a religious decision.

AnnaS930 · May 2016

@ducks6 are you planning a Bris? My husbands family is Jewish while mine is not. We would have circumcised regardless but the cultural aspect made the decision that much easier. I chose to have the circ done in the hospital before we were discharged though, not that my in-laws supported it, but it was right for us.

UnwritteN12 · May 2016

I agonized over this with DS1 so I did a ton of research. Between being easier to keep clean, reading that it was way worse if circumcision needed to be done later on and the fact that DH is circumcised, we had DS1 circumcised. DS2 will be as well. But mind you, if we had found out that not circumcising would be better, DH would have been ok with that too.

DH's sister didn't have her son circumcised and the biggest reasons that she told me about (I didn't ask but she felt the need to share) were to look like her husband and so that he could get the most out of his sexual experiences as an adult. That actually really weirded me out TBH. I had never thought of that and still don't want to. Even so, I think that a man who is circumcised is no worse off in that department than a man who isn't.

ducks6 · May 2016

@AnnaS930 if the baby is a boy we will have a bris. Since we're both Jewish and it's very much a part of our culture and religious beliefs, getting it done at the hospital before discharge would not be sufficient for us. Having said that, there are several doctors in my city who are also mohels (ritual circumcisers). I would go with someone who has the medical knowledge as well as the ritual knowledge over someone who has the ritual knowledge but lacks the medical training. This is what we feel is best for our family and is not necessarily best for other families.

jensou · May 2016

We circed our son (who's 14 now). I don't talk w him much about hygiene but I assume his boy parts are as clean as the rest of him. I agonized over the decision bc he was in the NICU for two weeks and did I really want to add on to his ordeal. His dad (we're divorced) was adamant our son get circumcised because he was made fun of for not being circumcised. And while he was aware that he shouldn't let it bother him, it bothered him anyway. We had no issues post procedure. Everything healed up well within a few days.

As an aside, I am now an adult ICU nurse. I look at all kinds of penises every day I work. When catheterizing guys, young and old, there is a significant amount of "yuck" up under the foreskjn that I have to clean away first. Sometimes (sorry) it is like nasty cheese. This isn't to say that it can't be kept clean. Just that as one's health and self care ability decreases, this is definitely one area that gets "let go." Ladies have their problems too.

We have had to call in urology from time to time to make a little slit in the foreskin so that it can be retracted. I've also seen it as a therapeutic measure (a slit) for older gentlemen before they go home so that they can better clean themselves or they can't pee well because the foreskin covers everything.

Prior to this assignment, I worked for two general surgeons. There were probably one or two elective circumcisions they did per month. I imagine urology would have even more. So know that if your child does want to elect for this in the future, it is an option. They usually do in the OR with heavy sedation. Recovery is 1-2 weeks and they're given pain meds.

This is anecdotal info. I would definitely recommend independent research and the input of valued opinions to help you make decision for your baby.

PJpeppercorn · May 2016

jensou said:

We circed our son (who's 14 now). I don't talk w him much about hygiene but I assume his boy parts are as clean as the rest of him. I agonized over the decision bc he was in the NICU for two weeks and did I really want to add on to his ordeal. His dad (we're divorced) was adamant our son get circumcised because he was made fun of for not being circumcised. And while he was aware that he shouldn't let it bother him, it bothered him anyway. We had no issues post procedure. Everything healed up well within a few days.

As an aside, I am now an adult ICU nurse. I look at all kinds of penises every day I work. When catheterizing guys, young and old, there is a significant amount of "yuck" up under the foreskjn that I have to clean away first. Sometimes (sorry) it is like nasty cheese. This isn't to say that it can't be kept clean. Just that as one's health and self care ability decreases, this is definitely one area that gets "let go." Ladies have their problems too.

We have had to call in urology from time to time to make a little slit in the foreskin so that it can be retracted. I've also seen it as a therapeutic measure (a slit) for older gentlemen before they go home so that they can better clean themselves or they can't pee well because the foreskin covers everything.

Prior to this assignment, I worked for two general surgeons. There were probably one or two elective circumcisions they did per month. I imagine urology would have even more. So know that if your child does want to elect for this in the future, it is an option. They usually do in the OR with heavy sedation. Recovery is 1-2 weeks and they're given pain meds.

This is anecdotal info. I would definitely recommend independent research and the input of valued opinions to help you make decision for your baby.

Thank you for this! Very helpful to hear perspectives from those in the medical field.

midge519 · May 2016

*lurker from October 15

My oldest (8) is circumcised. It was the norm in my family and was what Dad wanted, to match him. My youngest is not. My ex is my SO is not. Comparing every I find my circumcised ex is far more unhygienic than my SO. I know studies show hygiene but I definitely think some of that is up to the individual person. I did far more research this time around and realized, to me, it wasn't really worth it. SO left it completely up to me because he really didn't have a preference after doing his research. DS1 had a super easy recovery until he had an adhesion from not pulling it back far enough. We thought we were and pulled it back at every diaper change, but at three months or so his doctor noticed it at a routine check up and had to break the adhesion and we did the A&d again. Even with that it was a pretty simple thing to deal with.

Also you ladies are having this conversation probably better than I've ever seen!!

eightynine · May 2016

I'm having a girl but would absolutely circumsize a boy. Of course there are benefits to skipping this procedure, but I wouldn't want to cause him undue stress in his future sexual experiences by being uncircumcised, when that's not the norm around here.

beckz7 · May 2016

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

camichael84 · May 2016

beckz7 said:

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

I'm not anti-circing, but I think it's a bit much to say the foreskin is disgusting. It's the way the penis is made, and how males are born. I'd be bothered if anyone wanted to alter my vagina based on the idea that "it's disgusting".

beckz7 · May 2016

camichael84 said:

beckz7 said:

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

I'm not anti-circing, but I think it's a bit much to say the foreskin is disgusting. It's the way the penis is made, and how males are born. I'd be bothered if anyone wanted to alter my vagina based on the idea that "it's disgusting".

I would hope that if I did have a disgusting vagina, someone would be there to look out for me and save me the trouble or having to go through life with it that way

yellowrose314 · May 2016

Before we found out we were having a girl, DH and I sat down and researched our little hearts out on this subject. DH is circ'd but he didn't feel that this was a choice we could make without the right information; baby boy "looking like his dad" was not a good enough reason for DH, and it wasn't a good enough reason for me. After looking at the pro's and con's of the hygiene, STD risk, etc, we decided it wasn't a medically necessary procedure that our potential son would need to have. I didn't feel any conflict over this decision, and neither did DH. He said that if the time came and our son asked why he looked different, DH would have that discussion with him. We ended up finding out we're having a girl, so the situation is moot, but if we have a son in the future, our decision will remain the same to not circ, unless more significant research advocating for it comes out.

PJpeppercorn · May 2016

beckz7 said:

camichael84 said:

beckz7 said:

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

I'm not anti-circing, but I think it's a bit much to say the foreskin is disgusting. It's the way the penis is made, and how males are born. I'd be bothered if anyone wanted to alter my vagina based on the idea that "it's disgusting".

I would hope that if I did have a disgusting vagina, someone would be there to look out for me and save me the trouble or having to go through life with it that way

Wow! Really? You know, there are some cultures that do find the vagina disgusting and do practice genital mutilation on young girls. But really-- mostly I find your comments disgusting.

yellowrose314 · May 2016

PJpeppercorn said:

beckz7 said:

camichael84 said:

beckz7 said:

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

I'm not anti-circing, but I think it's a bit much to say the foreskin is disgusting. It's the way the penis is made, and how males are born. I'd be bothered if anyone wanted to alter my vagina based on the idea that "it's disgusting".

I would hope that if I did have a disgusting vagina, someone would be there to look out for me and save me the trouble or having to go through life with it that way

Wow! Really? You know, there are some cultures that do find the vagina disgusting and do practice genital mutilation on young girls. But really-- mostly I find your comments disgusting.

I have to agree. In some cultures people would say your clitoris is disgusting and perverse, and lop it off. But under your logic, since it's considered "disgusting" that's a perfectly logical reason to remove it?

PSUBecky23 · May 2016

beckz7 said:

camichael84 said:

beckz7 said:

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

I'm not anti-circing, but I think it's a bit much to say the foreskin is disgusting. It's the way the penis is made, and how males are born. I'd be bothered if anyone wanted to alter my vagina based on the idea that "it's disgusting".

I would hope that if I did have a disgusting vagina, someone would be there to look out for me and save me the trouble or having to go through life with it that way

Yes, I got fired from my last job because my vagina was disgusting.

All the uncircumcised men I've known always talk about how difficult it's been going through life with a disgusting penis.

KimmySchmidt · May 2016

beckz7 said:

camichael84 said:

beckz7 said:

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

I'm not anti-circing, but I think it's a bit much to say the foreskin is disgusting. It's the way the penis is made, and how males are born. I'd be bothered if anyone wanted to alter my vagina based on the idea that "it's disgusting".

I would hope that if I did have a disgusting vagina, someone would be there to look out for me and save me the trouble or having to go through life with it that way

The conversation has been impressively non-judge mental and civil up to this point. Please don't be that person. Nothing is disgusting about a newborn baby's body no matter what choice your make about male circumcision. Take it elsewhere, please.

camichael84 · May 2016

yellowrose314 said:

PJpeppercorn said:

beckz7 said:

camichael84 said:

beckz7 said:

We had my 11 year old Circumcised. Didn't really have to worry about it too much. It was kind of just a given that we'd have it done. Some things that were a thought for me were: I wanted him to look the same as his dad and other boys to avoid any 'why is my penis different' questions. Also, I just think it'd be more stressful for him to end up having to have the procedure when he was older than when he's a day old. And my personal opinion is that it is disgusting to have that extra skin that takes extra hygiene effort to keep healthy. One less thing on that kind of thing that I have to worry about him remembering to do. Will have this one Circumcised as well when he gets here

I'm not anti-circing, but I think it's a bit much to say the foreskin is disgusting. It's the way the penis is made, and how males are born. I'd be bothered if anyone wanted to alter my vagina based on the idea that "it's disgusting".

I would hope that if I did have a disgusting vagina, someone would be there to look out for me and save me the trouble or having to go through life with it that way

Wow! Really? You know, there are some cultures that do find the vagina disgusting and do practice genital mutilation on young girls. But really-- mostly I find your comments disgusting.

I have to agree. In some cultures people would say your clitoris is disgusting and perverse, and lop it off. But under your logic, since it's considered "disgusting" that's a perfectly logical reason to remove it?

This. I'm sure you really regret that your parents didn't cut off your clitoris that is considered "disgusting" in other cultures. Also, I've heard people (Americans) call the vagina disgusting because it's naturally full of bacteria (much more than even the uncircumcised penis has) and leaks fluids (like blood). Better not to have a vagina at all than to deal with all that disgustingness, though, right?

AnnaS930 · May 2016

Can we all just ignore the nastiness of the comment and move forward? I think this thread is full of great viewpoints and was complete and now it's going to spiral out of control. What was said was absurd but the vagina comparisons and everything else is not going to go anywhere. Can we just end it?

mrsl0429 · May 2016

@AnnaS930 Amen.

nativetexan512 · May 2016

jensou my sister's boys were also in the NICU, and I don't know exactly when they did their circ, but I assume it was when they weighed/were healthy enough for it. It was before they came home. My doctor did say she only performed circumcisions in the hospital under perfect circumstances, otherwise she recommended seeing a urologist to have it done a few weeks later. I thought this was weird, never heard of someone going to a urologist instead of having it done at the hospital.

Like a pp said, I am team "husband gets to decide this one" and so far, he's in favor.

PJpeppercorn · May 2016

We met with our pediatrician this morning and asked about the procedure in the hospital vs at the doctors office. Their practice only does it later, in their surgical room at their office. It is their philosophy that the baby has been through so much with the birth and the most important thing is bonding and establishing breastfeeding (they are a very pro-breastfeeding office) so they feel it's important to wait a week for the procedure. She said there also tends to be less bleeding when it's done about a week after birth. Just thought I'd share the perspective and conversation.

fireflygirl12 · May 2016

DH wanted to circumcise DS1. I was leaning slightly the other way, but not enough to make it a battle. I did a lot more research after and with DS2 I was anti-circ. DH also leaned toward anti-circ, but thought we should since we did DS1. I'm not sure that this was a good reason, but I do see some point that they would know and do we say we screwed up on the first peen? I wasn't in the room during, but neither were crying when they came out and both healed easily.

I had posted a question on one of my FB cloth diaper boards asking about using Vaseline and CDs and what to do about that. Apparently someone who also belonged to an intactivist group screenshot my question and posted it in her group. I received over 50 private messages telling me what an awful person I am a few days before we took DS2 in. It completely traumatized me at the time. I was a mess the first 20 weeks before finding out this was a girl b/c I didn't know what we would do this time.

PJpeppercorn · May 2016

fireflygirl12 said:

DH wanted to circumcise DS1. I was leaning slightly the other way, but not enough to make it a battle. I did a lot more research after and with DS2 I was anti-circ. DH also leaned toward anti-circ, but thought we should since we did DS1. I'm not sure that this was a good reason, but I do see some point that they would know and do we say we screwed up on the first peen? I wasn't in the room during, but neither were crying when they came out and both healed easily.
I had posted a question on one of my FB cloth diaper boards asking about using Vaseline and CDs and what to do about that. Apparently someone who also belonged to an intactivist group screenshot my question and posted it in her group. I received over 50 private messages telling me what an awful person I am a few days before we took DS2 in. It completely traumatized me at the time. I was a mess the first 20 weeks before finding out this was a girl b/c I didn't know what we would do this time.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. What an awful experience! Hugs!

fireflygirl12 · May 2016

@pjpeppercorn it was awful. Luckily someone who had gone through a similar experience messaged me to tell me what happened and about the group. I had no idea why I was suddenly being attacked.

yellowrose314 · May 2016

@fireflygirl12 I am so sorry you had to go through that! What a nightmare... I will never understand why people feel the need to go out of their way to say horrible nasty things to complete strangers. They would never do it in real life, but everyone is so brave behind their keyboards.

jas1982 · May 2016

I went to some family events this weekend and spoke with a lot of people about this (because it's just so hard to get enough feedback on my baby's penis at home. my spouse is like, are we really talking about this again?)... I think the idea of uncircumcised penises causing problems for men in their end-of-life years really ended up pushing me over the edge. We're definitely going for the circumcision. It's funny how my heart breaks for my child in his theoretical 80s or 90s trying to clean himself with his arthritic fingers when he's still three months away from being born. Pregnancy is so weird.

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