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Sleep consultant? Sleep training? Anyone?

Peanut1128Peanut1128 member
in December 2015 Moms
My son is now 18weeks old (born on Thanksgiving), weighs about 17lbs and is formula and breastfed. We have had some ups & downs with sleep the past 4 months due to him getting surgery at 10w and the recovery. At this point, he goes to bed at 7:30-8:00 and is up for the day between 6-7. However, he wakes up 1-4 times in between. The only consistent wake up seems to be around 1-2 and that's when I do a MOTN feeding. I'm not concerned about weaning him from that just yet, as he does "sleep" for a long time and may need/want the nourishment. I just think he needs to figure out how to self-soothe so he can put himself back to sleep for the other wake ups. 

Anyone use a sleep consultant or any form of sleep training and care to share how that worked? I am so exhausted now and I've been back at work for a month while still waking up all the time. 
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Re: Sleep consultant? Sleep training? Anyone?

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  • mhwoodmhwood member
    Is he fully waking, or just fussing?
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  • Gingermom15Gingermom15 member
    So, he goes to sleep around 7:30 pm and sleeps until around 7ish am and wakes up 1-4 times during those 12 ish hours? That sounds pretty normal for 18 weeks. If he is only eating during one of those wake ups what do you do for the other times he wakes? Have you tried giving a pacifier and letting him fuss for a minute to see if he will fall back asleep? 
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  • laurabwalkerlaurabwalker member
    How does he fall asleep? Basically I have been reading a lot about sleep since my baby hates it (lol) and after 4 months however babe initially falls asleep, babe will need that when night waking. So if you nurse to sleep, then babe wants that, or if you rock to sleep, then babe wants that etc. basically they cannot self soothe so you have to do it for them. Some babies can self soothe from the start, some cannot at all 
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  • LaceyH13LaceyH13 member
    kdoak2015 said:
    My personal opinion is they wake up for a reason and I don't plan on sleep training. she will work it out on her own! 
    It's fine to choose not to sleep train, but I think it is false to say that babies never wake up for no reason. I suppose if the reason is the end of a sleep cycle then yes, they do always have a reason. But they don't always need something. It certainly depends on the age of the baby, but by about 4 months, their sleep cycle is like ours. Sometimes adults wake up because it is the end of their sleep cycle, but that doesn't mean they need to eat or anything. Sometimes we do, but usually we just roll over and go back to sleep...because we have learned to do that. So its okay if a mom wants to teach her baby to go back to sleep if all needs are taken care of.
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  • kdoak2015kdoak2015 member
    LaceyH13 said:
    kdoak2015 said:
    My personal opinion is they wake up for a reason and I don't plan on sleep training. she will work it out on her own! 
    It's fine to choose not to sleep train, but I think it is false to say that babies never wake up for no reason. I suppose if the reason is the end of a sleep cycle then yes, they do always have a reason. But they don't always need something. It certainly depends on the age of the baby, but by about 4 months, their sleep cycle is like ours. Sometimes adults wake up because it is the end of their sleep cycle, but that doesn't mean they need to eat or anything. Sometimes we do, but usually we just roll over and go back to sleep...because we have learned to do that. So its okay if a mom wants to teach her baby to go back to sleep if all needs are taken care of.
    You and I have already picked this topic apart and came to the conclusion we don't have the same views. A baby 4m old is waking because he or she needs something whether it be food, soothed or help getting back to sleep. IMO! Don't feel like debating my opinion with you any further.
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  • LaceyH13LaceyH13 member
    It's fine that you have your opinion but sometimes you type it like any other opinion that differs is wrong. Do you ever agree with anybody here? It just seems like you take a lot of opportunities to swipe at people who have a different opinion. Different does not equal wrong.
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  • ATolentino89ATolentino89 member
    I don't think @kdoak2015 is forceful with her opinion at all. She was simply stating what she thought on the topic of the post on a forum. Is that not what TB is?!?!?!?
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  • taysuntaysun member
    I always offer the pacifier at every wake up (even nap wake ups). Sometimes she takes it and falls asleep. Other times she continues to fuss or will suck vigorously and stay awake. Then I feed her until she falls back asleep (night or day) or until she's content and the  get her up (daytime). 
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  • LaceyH13LaceyH13 member
    ATolentino89 said:
    I don't think @kdoak2015 is forceful with her opinion at all. She was simply stating what she thought on the topic of the post on a forum. Is that not what TB is for?


    [stuck in box]

    That is what TB is all about, but enough is enough at some point. There are different parenting philosophies out there, and no need to swoop in on every one that you disagree with and make it known that you disagree with it. Every single time.
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  • sharonholck28sharonholck28 member
    Everyone has they're own opinions, no need to get pushy on which is better. Op was asking opinions so they were given. 

    We are not using sleep consultants. She sleeps pretty well sleeping from 8-530/6 ish then again until 830. She does stir and cry sometimes but she will only do that for a couple seconds or a minute or two then fall back to sleep. If she completely wakes up I get up change her and nurse her back to sleep. Paci's don't work and she doesn't self soothe very much yet. It's what worked for us. 
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  • Fdpolla92Fdpolla92 member
    So I know that I don't have the popular opinon here but we did start doing kind of a "sleep training" about 2 weeks ago. We were spending hours to get DD to sleep for her to just wake up as soon as we put her down. She was miserable all the time because she was tired. What we started doing was when she started getting tired we would change her and rock her in the chair while reading a book. When the book was done we put her in the crib. She would usually cry but we just checked on her every 5 minutes to comfort her for 1 minute then go back out. After the 2nd day she would just be fussy for 2-3 minutes after we put her down. Now she's taking her naps and is fine. At night when she wakes I still get up and feed her because I know that's why she wakes up at night. So yes the first couple of days sucked but now she's much happier all the time. I don't think this is right for everyone but our situation was starting to get out of control.
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  • angelicac06angelicac06 member
    ATolentino89 said
    I don't think @kdoak2015 is forceful with her opinion at all. She was simply stating what she thought on the topic of the post on a forum. Is that not what TB is?!?!?!?
    I also don't believe @kdoak2015 was "swiping" either. That is her opinion and she's welcomed to offer it on every relevant thread. I have also observed her agree with others. 

    Op, I do think it is also normal for a baby at this age. I posted an article from a sleep consultant in the regression thread that states sleep training is recommended from 6-8 months on most babies if that helps.
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  • kdoak2015kdoak2015 member
    edited April 2016
    Its like beating a dead horse. I just express my dislike in sleep training/CIO. I try to provide education on the subject. Honestly @LaceyH13 when we cross this subject again and I see you are involved I will go my own way. You strongly agree with something and it's your right to express that. I strongly disagree and I have every right to express that as well. 

    I also wouldn't say it's "every single time" It's been 2 forums and the same subject. 
    I believe I'm pretty supportive elsewhere. 

    LaceyH13 said:
    It's fine that you have your opinion but sometimes you type it like any other opinion that differs is wrong. Do you ever agree with anybody here? It just seems like you take a lot of opportunities to swipe at people who have a different opinion. Different does not equal wrong
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  • kdoak2015kdoak2015 member
    LaceyH13 said:
    It's fine that you have your opinion but sometimes you type it like any other opinion that differs is wrong. Do you ever agree with anybody here? It just seems like you take a lot of opportunities to swipe at people who have a different opinion. Different does not equal wrong.
    I just don't agree with you, but that's ok! 
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  • Peanut1128Peanut1128 member
    For those who asked, we used to be able to settle him by giving him his pacifier or rubbing his belly for a minute. The past two weeks he has cried harder and louder and won't settle until I rock him back to sleep which I never did before. He usually falls asleep drinking his last bottle so I don't rock him to sleep initially.
    His 4 month checkup was today so I asked his pediatrician her opinion and she said I should be letting him cry for up to 10 minutes before checking in and that he is healthy and big enough to begin weaning him at night. She also said between 4-6 months, you should normally see a big improvement in sleep so there's hope for those of us who have babies who wake up frequently.

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  • Peanut1128Peanut1128 member
    @kdoak2015 I think I missed the other thread, but I would be curious to read why you are against sleep training. Everything I have read says babies need to learn how to self soothe and the importance of good sleep habits early on. 
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  • LaceyH13LaceyH13 member
    kdoak2015 said:
    Its like beating a dead horse. I just express my dislike in sleep training/CIO. I try to provide education on the subject. Honestly @LaceyH13 when we cross this subject again and I see you are involved I will go my own way. You strongly agree with something and it's your right to express that. I strongly disagree and I have every right to express that as well. 

    I also wouldn't say it's "every single time" It's been 2 forums and the same subject. 
    I believe I'm pretty supportive elsewhere. 

    LaceyH13 said:
    It's fine that you have your opinion but sometimes you type it like any other opinion that differs is wrong. Do you ever agree with anybody here? It just seems like you take a lot of opportunities to swipe at people who have a different opinion. Different does not equal wrong
    Where is the education? I just see you saying that you don't believe in it.

    And for the record, you don't know what I think about the subject, though it seems you think you do. After your comment that people who suffer from PPD shouldn't be on TB, I just can't take your opinion as credible, I'm sorry. Maybe I am a little harsh on you (and I probably shouldn't be), but that comment really really burned me.
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  • laurabwalkerlaurabwalker member
    My baby can't self soothe at all. I never thought I would sleep train but it's becoming unbearable, the not sleeping. She's 16 lbs and rocking her for 40 mins is terrible especially when it doesn't always work, and when you're so tired. I don't judge anyone for anything they want to do, sleep is quite personal. I think if you want to cosleep and nurse on demand and hat works for your family, that is great. I think if you want to safely sleep train with the help of an expert, then great. My LO won't even nurse to sleep except in the middle of the night, but then sometimes it's hourly, and it turns out I cannot get back to sleep inbetween those nursing periods. It's all quite complicated with no easy answer I think.
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  • kdoak2015kdoak2015 member
    Peanut1128 said:
    @kdoak2015 I think I missed the other thread, but I would be curious to read why you are against sleep training. Everything I have read says babies need to learn how to self soothe and the importance of good sleep habits early on. 
    Studies show the psychological effects CIO or any type of cry training has on a baby. You can do your own research I won't bore you with the studies but it basically causes damage to a part of their brain(studies show). Not all sleep training is CIO so it's not the training I'm against its th crying. I don't want to "force" my child to do something they aren't suppose to be doing at this age. They are meant to wake and not sttn for reasons IMO. I can't state that this is MY OPINION enough.
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  • laurabwalkerlaurabwalker member
    Im wondering about the CIO that is consoled and there are still night feedings? Has anyone done that?
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  • MomofEv+1MomofEv+1 member
    If babies get brain damage from cio, then my four year old can send me the bill for her future therapist. It was necessary in our situation because our sanity was hanging by a thread and so was our daycare provider's. Butt tapping and rocking for hours on end, several times a day was not a feasible long term solution. I do respect that some people are not comfortable with it and that it should be used with guidance and compassion, but my wonderful, sweet, and loving child is not permanently damaged because we let her cry it out. She had everything she needed and was loved. We stood by her crib and comforted her in every way we could without picking her up. But now I have over explained and sound defensive. I don't regret doing what we had to do. It was better for everyone involved, including a child who was finally getting enough sleep. 

    My second child's sleep habits are 100% different from my first and cio probably won't be our method of sleep training because it's not fun and nobody wants to do it unless they have to.
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  • Peanut1128Peanut1128 member
    @laurabwalker sounds like we are in a similar boat. My doctor said wait 10 minutes, console for 1-2 minutes and then leave the room and start the 10 minutes over again. She said they are too young to cry longer than that until 6 months (in her opinion). Whenever possible, don't pick them up just rub their belly or give the pacifier. 
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  • Mizuiro007Mizuiro007 member
    Peanut1128 said:
    @laurabwalker sounds like we are in a similar boat. My doctor said wait 10 minutes, console for 1-2 minutes and then leave the room and start the 10 minutes over again. She said they are too young to cry longer than that until 6 months (in her opinion). Whenever possible, don't pick them up just rub their belly or give the pacifier. 
    We did cio with DS around a year old and I would just add one thing from that experience. Don't always get too hung up on time. You get to know different cries and there's a certain point where it doesn't matter how long it's been.
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  • kdoak2015kdoak2015 member
    LaceyH13 said:
    kdoak2015 said:
    Its like beating a dead horse. I just express my dislike in sleep training/CIO. I try to provide education on the subject. Honestly @LaceyH13 when we cross this subject again and I see you are involved I will go my own way. You strongly agree with something and it's your right to express that. I strongly disagree and I have every right to express that as well. 

    I also wouldn't say it's "every single time" It's been 2 forums and the same subject. 
    I believe I'm pretty supportive elsewhere. 

    LaceyH13 said:
    It's fine that you have your opinion but sometimes you type it like any other opinion that differs is wrong. Do you ever agree with anybody here? It just seems like you take a lot of opportunities to swipe at people who have a different opinion. Different does not equal wrong
    Where is the education? I just see you saying that you don't believe in it.

    And for the record, you don't know what I think about the subject, though it seems you think you do. After your comment that people who suffer from PPD shouldn't be on TB, I just can't take your opinion as credible, I'm sorry. Maybe I am a little harsh on you (and I probably shouldn't be), but that comment really really burned me.
    You can be as harsh as you'd like, I have big girl knickers. I thought we had hashed out our differences re: my comments on the other
    post regarding the PPD and I believe I apologized so if you have underlining issues feel free to private message me and we can hash it out! 
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  • groovylocksgroovylocks member
    kdoak2015 said:
    My personal opinion is they wake up for a reason and I don't plan on sleep training. she will work it out on her own! 
    We plan to sleep train but starting slowly somewhere after 9 months-1 year.. or maybe later. That's our personal strategy. I realize it's different for every parent.
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  • pupsicle23pupsicle23 member
    edited April 2016
    OP: I can't speak to the sleep consultant or CIO  (Always thought I'd be fine to sleep train, but now I think DD isn't ready and we'll do it later if she needs it.) But I really like the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" or something like that.  It gives different options so that you can do what works for your family.  It does recommend CIO or gradual extinction and,  while I don't do either of those,  I find everything else in the book to be very helpful. 

    Edited for autocorrect issues. 
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  • jenEPjenEP member
    I just had a sleep consultant meet with my parent support group. She advocates methods other than cry it out and considers herself a gentle sleep trainer. She's from the UK and said that she believes CIO is used much too young in the states. I began implementing some of the suggestions she gave our group with immediate results for our naps. We are doing ok with sleep at night (2 wakings to eat). If I get to the point that DD isn't making progress I will work with this particular consultant. I want to try methods other than CIO first. If I do any form of crying sleep training, I don't think it will be before 9 months. However, as with everything in parenting, I am trying to stay flexible and know that I don't have as much control as I wish I did. 
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  • twilliams145twilliams145 member
    I used Tracy Spackman for a sleep consultant for my first. He still can't self soothe very well and is almost 2.5. My 4 month old is much, much better at self soothing. I wish I would have found Tracy sooner for my first. We just had a lot of bad habits to break when we started. She won't do any babies under 16 weeks but you should be good at 18 weeks. Look her up on Facebook. If you can't find her let me know and I can go back and look up her contact info. She is from Phoenix but I live in Texas and we did everything over the phone. I would suggest at least calling her and getting a free consultation. Her business name is Get Quiet Nights if I remember right. 
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  • Peanut1128Peanut1128 member
    Thanks everyone, I appreciate the different perspectives. Before I had a baby, I had very different ideas of what I would be comfortable with and of course it's all different now that he is here. 
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  • Knottie1456179799Knottie1456179799 member
    We are coming up on 18 weeks.  LO "sleeps through the night", but I know she has low points and COULD be waking.  DH and I leave her be unless she starts chatting (meaning she is awake and happy) or squawking (meaning she's awake and needs something).  She doesn't cry much (thank goodness!), so I feel like CIO will not work for us- if she is crying, something is REALLY wrong.  However, we also share a room right now EXACTLY so that one of us can respond BEFORE the crying starts.  It may not work for everybody, but it seems to be working for us.  Like you said, you have to do what you are comfortable with, and that may have changed between now and when you were pregnant.  It certainly did for me. Good luck!
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  • RachelAnspachRachelAnspach member
    We don't "cry it out" quite yet, but we "fuss it out" quite a bit to give our 4mo old the opportunity to learn to self soothe. Swooping in every time she cries out doesn't do her any favors as she needs to develop her skills to soothe on her own. I mostly work on this at naps since at night I worry about my 4yr twins waking. Also working hard on her falling asleep unassisted so she can do the same when she wakes at night! I did end up crying it out when my twins were babies and it was the best thing I ever did...it def upset me more than them and they truly no longer needed feeding at night at that point. Sleep is so important for babies (and moms!) and giving them the gift of self soothing abilities pays off in the long run. In my opinion. 
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