Jumping the gun here...but can we talk about circumcision?

Hillzy30 · February 2016

I KNOW that this can be a hot button issue, but it's something I've been thinking about.

When I was pregnant with DD, I just knew, from day one, that I was having a girl. And this time, I'm feeling boy so I'm already thinking about circumcision. I want to make a well informed decision, but I feel like everything I read is so one-sided. This is what I've come up with based on the small amount of reading I've done so far.

If I had to decide right now, I would say no to circumcision for the following reasons:
- It's not a medically necessary procedure
- The head of the penis becomes desensitized in circumcised males
- It's not a matter of religion or culture for us
- I remember how guilty I felt after having DD's ears pierced.

However:
- I know someone who chose not to circumcise her son. And then she had to take him for the procedure at 5/6 years old because the skin was so tight and was causing pain. So it became medically necessary. I don't know how common this is.
- DH or I wouldn't know the first thing about cleaning an uncircumcised penis. But that's probably something a pediatrician could teach us?
- Some studies say that the risks of STDs is higher in uncircumcised men but others say it's not true.

I plan on bringing it up with our pediatrician the next time we see her. I also have a family member who is a pediatrician and will discuss it with him once we announce to our family and know for sure we are having a boy.

I only know two people who have chosen to not circumcise their sons and their only reason is so that he can match his father, so they weren't much help. I'm curious as to what other parents' experiences are.

LizaKate1213 · February 2016

DS is not circumcised. There isn't any way to clean an intact penis...it is a self-cleaning system, just needs gentle soap on the outside and good rinsing. The foreskin should NEVER be retracted by ANYONE, not even a doctor. It can cause permanent damage. It will retract on its own, usually 100% by puberty or soon thereafter. DS has never had any issues other than mild inflammation due to his diaper or pants rubbing and a day or two of cortisone cream fixed it right up (i think we didn't rinse with water well enough after a bath). Here is a great link that is very informative: https://madsciencewriter.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-foreskin-why-is-it-such-secret-in.html?m=1

katiegeminimoon · February 2016

I don't know much about it, but a few months ago we talked about it. I feel like it is unnecessary, but he thinks it should be done just because "he had it done and it's normal". I feel like he just needs to know more information about it and he would see that it is unnecessary.

aggiefrau08 · February 2016

Neither of my DSs are circumcised. DS1 recently retracted on his own and we just cleaned it like a finger (outside only). You do have to be vigilant with some care providers about making sure they don't forcibly retract the foreskin, but it's really not that hard to take care of otherwise. My DH is circ'ed, so this was new for both of us and we've had zero issues.

Hillzy30 · February 2016

ktcakes87 said:

I don't know much about it, but a few months ago we talked about it. I feel like it is unnecessary, but he thinks it should be done just because "he had it done and it's normal". I feel like he just needs to know more information about it and he would see that it is unnecessary.

From what I've been reading it sounds like uncircumcised is the new normal.

Jen080916 · February 2016

DH is uncircumcised and if this baby is a boy, he will not be circumcised either. DS is circumcised only because I was terribly young and didn't put any more thought into it other than it was the standard in my area. It's unnecessary.

katiegeminimoon · February 2016

Hillzy30 said:

ktcakes87 said:

I don't know much about it, but a few months ago we talked about it. I feel like it is unnecessary, but he thinks it should be done just because "he had it done and it's normal". I feel like he just needs to know more information about it and he would see that it is unnecessary.

From what I've been reading it sounds like uncircumcised is the new normal.

Good! Unfortunately he is a bit of a follower and wants to do things the "normal" way. I'm glad uncircumcised is the new normal, should be easier to convince him.

von1976 · February 2016

DH is circumcised and insists on our son also being circumcised. He says that he doesn't want our son to be made fun of in the locker room for "looking different". I've tried to explain to him that most boys are not circumcised any longer, so it wouldn't matter. The males in my family are not circumcised and I know the surgery is pretty horrific. I'd rather not do it. I'm not sure I can talk him into this one, however.

frankierokx · February 2016

DS isn't. I don't understand why people do circumcise their sons unless it is a medical emergency.

PeggyOlsonFTW · February 2016

frankierokx said:

DS isn't. I don't understand why people do circumcise their sons unless it is a medical emergency.

Because it's every family's individual choice. DS is circumcised and no it wasn't a medical emergency.

mrsman2018 · February 2016

We both agreed on circumcision.

artcheese · February 2016

We circumcised DS. Really the benefits and risk are about 50/50 for both options from everything I read. And since DH is kind of Jewish (his entire dads side are), we chose to do it. We found a doctor who was trained in Germany and she allowed DH to hand her the scrapple or whatever it's called. So although we didn't have a bris, we had our own "sort of Jewish" ceremony in a way.

PrimRoseMama · February 2016

LizaKate1213 said:

DS is not circumcised. There isn't any way to clean an intact penis...it is a self-cleaning system, just needs gentle soap on the outside and good rinsing. The foreskin should NEVER be retracted by ANYONE, not even a doctor. It can cause permanent damage. It will retract on its own, usually 100% by puberty or soon thereafter. DS has never had any issues other than mild inflammation due to his diaper or pants rubbing and a day or two of cortisone cream fixed it right up (i think we didn't rinse with water well enough after a bath). Here is a great link that is very informative: https://madsciencewriter.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-foreskin-why-is-it-such-secret-in.html?m=1

Same. I was team Circ all the way up until I gave birth. Then I changed my mind. Its the only thing that my husband and I ever disagreed about. He wanted to still do it and I was not wanting to. In the end I "won" because its an actual surgical event. So, if we have a boy the next time around we might still circ, but I am so torn. Once my son was HERE and the idea of causing him pain for no reason (we aren't super religious) seemed horrifying.

That being said, I'm say its not my kid and therefore not my decision. I know plenty who have circ'd and it went fine. DS does fine not being circ'd. We've never really had an issue.

layali · February 2016

DH and I had this discussion a lot during 3rd Tri and in the early days of DS's life. I'd be happy to talk about our decision and reasoning in a PM if you'd like!

Piperella · February 2016

My husband is from Scotland, and over in the UK, being uncircumcised is the norm. He refuses to let a potential DS be circumcised. I'm half Jewish, and although it is a part of my religion, I'm would choose to have my DS remain intact as I feel that science/health is more important than religion and what I have seen as normal in my life. A friend's son had to have corrective surgery on a botched circumcision. He has now had 4 surgeries to help correct issues and will need to have others as he grows older. You'll find horror stories on both sides (issues with surgery / not taking good care of the foreskin) so it really should be an informed, personal decision made between yourself and your SO.

Hillzy30 · February 2016

One of the things I found online was a clip - idk what it was from actually. Maybe Oprah's network? - "ask the experts". A couple asked Dr. Oz if they should circumcise their son. He actually went into them having to clean it.
@LizaKate1213

frankierokx · February 2016

PeggyOlsonFTW said:

frankierokx said:

DS isn't. I don't understand why people do circumcise their sons unless it is a medical emergency.

Because it's every family's individual choice. DS is circumcised and no it wasn't a medical emergency.

Is there a benefit to circumcising?

PeggyOlsonFTW · February 2016

frankierokx said:

PeggyOlsonFTW said:

frankierokx said:

DS isn't. I don't understand why people do circumcise their sons unless it is a medical emergency.

Because it's every family's individual choice. DS is circumcised and no it wasn't a medical emergency.

Is there a benefit to circumcising?

I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty of why we chose to circumcise. It's not worth it, as clearly we don't see eye to eye on the subject. I think there are pros and cons no matter what you decide, you just have to decide what is best for you and your family. What's best for you and yours is not necessarily what's best for me and mine or the world at large. I don't judge anyone who has circumcised their child and would ask for the same respect in return.

LizaKate1213 · February 2016

@Hillzy30 I watched the first two minutes and I am absolutely appalled at his recommendations. You should never, Ever ever ever retract the foreskin! As I stated already, it can cause permanent damage including chronic pain, bleeding, and can be traumatizing for the child. I cannot believe Dr. Oz gave such outdated information. I take everything he says with a grain of salt anyways but that just made me sick. The link I gave earlier has accurate information about cleaning and the anatomy behind why it is important not to retract early.

PrimRoseMama · February 2016

frankierokx said:

PeggyOlsonFTW said:

frankierokx said:

DS isn't. I don't understand why people do circumcise their sons unless it is a medical emergency.

Because it's every family's individual choice. DS is circumcised and no it wasn't a medical emergency.

Is there a benefit to circumcising?

For some there is some benefit. One being that there are some religious aspects for some families. So that could arguably count as a benefit (religious comraderie). I'm not sure that someone who wants to circumcise their LO requires justification of any benefit to do it. That can get into the "what reason is a good enough reason" slippery slope debate that often comes up with circumcision and breast feeding.

I'm also confused about if this is a real question or a rhetorical one?

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks. However, the AAP doesn't recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns. The AAP leaves the circumcision decision up to parents — and supports use of anesthetics for infants who have the procedure.

Circumcision might have various health benefits, including:

Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. Washing beneath the foreskin of an uncircumcised penis is generally easy, however.

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The overall risk of urinary tract infections in males is low, but these infections are more common in uncircumcised males. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later on.

Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. Circumcised men might have a lower risk of certain sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Still, safe sexual practices remain essential.

Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis can be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can lead to inflammation of the foreskin or head of the penis.

Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men. In addition, cervical cancer is less common in the female sexual partners of circumcised men.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/basics/why-its-done/prc-20013585

I didn't end up circumcising LO last minute even though I was for it throughout my pregnancy. For me it came down to the fact that I didn't want to hurt him and I wasn't as gun-ho about the procedure as I thought I would be. It actually surprised me and I wasn't really prepared for how much I didn't want to do it. So, plans can change and flexibility is key.

Most importantly, this decision isn't something that can affect anyone outside the family. So, its not something that has to be justified to a third party in order to be legitimate.

gherkins · February 2016

We will choose not to. A boy in Canada recently bled to death from his. A friend of mine had to have her sons done twice because they botched the first. And he had to be put under the second time. If you've ever seen one done, you'd probably choose not to. It is not gentle and they often don't use appropriate pain relief. There are videos on YouTube if you're interested.
That being said, it is the norm in our culture. And I can imagine a man feeling weird about having his penis look differently than his sons. I get it. I was recently told that physicians trained in America are not taught how to care for intact penises, so you're basically on your own if there is an issue. Like, the textbooks and models are all circumcised.
And my husband isn't circumcised, so he doesn't have an issue with what I believe.

frankierokx · February 2016

Fascinating reads. Thank you. I find it so interesting how different our cultures are. I'm sorry I'm not asking you to justify it. I'm just very intrigued on what has swayed your minds to have it done in the first place. We are not offered any advice on the matter here.

frankierokx · February 2016

And I was being serious when I asked if there was a benefit to it. I don't know a thing about the subject and was hoping for some insider education.

LadyMillil · February 2016

frankierokx said:

PeggyOlsonFTW said:

frankierokx said:

DS isn't. I don't understand why people do circumcise their sons unless it is a medical emergency.

Because it's every family's individual choice. DS is circumcised and no it wasn't a medical emergency.

Is there a benefit to circumcising?

Lurker

Circumcision leads to a 57% decrease in HIV infection rates.

FinePlacentaPie · February 2016

*also lurking*

I would not say the surgery is "horrific". DS slept through his. He was a little uncomfortable later but didn't cry much at all, even then.

Like PP said, it is a personal decision for every family. As other PPs stated, you do not retract if you choose not to circumcise. Depending on the type of procedure your doctor uses, you may actually have to retract if you DO circumcise. We still have to retract DS's because he was prone to adhesions after the surgery. There are pros and cons to either decision.

nsquaredlife13 · February 2016

DS is not circumsised, and if we have another boy he won't be either. No judgement if you circ. your child, but it's not our religion or culture, so theres not really a reason why we feel it's necessary. I mainly left it up to DH since he did more research on it, but I agree with the decision wholeheartedly.

moquat · February 2016

If it's a boy we will circumcise for religious reasons.

lilyaster · February 2016

I was pro circumcision until I got to watch the procedure in nursing school. I grew up with circumcised brothers and DH is circ'd so that was initially what we would have done. Our first two were girls and by the time I was pregnant with a boy we decided not to. Our nephew's circumcision was "botched" in the words of my SIL, I don't know the details but there was repeat surgery and a lawsuit. I do worry about DS feeling different if all his friends look different in the locker room, but ultimately we felt it was his body and a decision we wanted to let him make, since it is cosmetic. We have had no problems and no need to do any special care in 3.5 years. I did have to switch doctors though, absolutely love my PCP but she retracted his foreskin every visit and I switched to a pediatrician who knew to leave it alone.

dobbyisfree · February 2016

I tried responding a lot earlier and the app wouldn't let me. We chose to circ DS because of my brother. He had to be circ'd and 4 or 5 because of a few issues. He still remembers it and was really traumatized by it. He 100 percent says his kids will be circ'd because of his experience. I vividly remember my dad having to cut his penis out of his swimsuit with nail scissors because it wouldn't come free. It was awful.

That said, my DS was a premie (36 weeks). He was okay though, until they did the circumcison. It made him stop eating, so he ended up admitted and on a glucose drip overnight. Not a huge deal now, for sure, but definitely enough that we will have to seriously talk about it again.

kmalls · February 2016

DS is circumcised because my husband insisted on it. I left the decision up to him entirely, I really had no strong feelings either way. I will say that in our social and economic circle, circumcision is absolutely the norm. And for anyone worried about the pain of the procedure: DS slept right through it and never seemed uncomfortable for a minute after the procedure.

But really -- what you do with your kid's foreskin is totally up to you. No judgements here.

Glow360 · February 2016

I had my son circumcised as an infant and hes a teen now and doesn't and never did remember it. It didn't psychologically scar him, or cause him harm. In fact I sat through the procedure. It is quick. It is rare that it gets botched. Its a simple procedure. When it is botched people think they lose the penis and that isn't true. It is not harmful it is extremely helpful. Kids do not clean themselves well and I didn't want to have to be checking as he was getting older. I had a friend who didn't and her son's penis got infected and he was hospitalized. Circumcision has been around forever.

bornmommy · February 2016

Personal choice. We did with both of ours and will if this one is a boy. (Although- I've been thinking girl since day one so I hope I have your intuition!)

queen_frostine · February 2016

One of the reasons I'd rather have a girl is avoiding this argument with my husband! I'm against it, although he is in favor because he was circumcised and he perceives it as normal. If it's a boy, I'll just do my very best to convince him, which will be a bitch. Also, it will be harder because many years ago I told him that I would let the father decide whether or not to circumcise since I did not personally have a penis. One of the drawbacks to having been together so long is that sometimes I change my mind on things and then get called on it.

Spartanrd4 · February 2016

My husband isn't circumcised and it has really opened my eyes about the topic. He is from Germany and circumcision isn't very common there. So why is it in the US?! If I have a son I would strongly consider not circumcising.

JCWhitey · February 2016

$300 and insurance didn't cover it so DS is not. Future sons also won't be. My decision was also similar to Prims, when it came time to do it or not I couldn't imagine handing him over and causing him any pain. I almost had a meltdown during the stupid hearing exam and heel prick, no way could I let anything worse than that happen to him.

PrimRoseMama · February 2016

JCWhitey said:

$300 and insurance didn't cover it so DS is not. Future sons also won't be. My decision was also similar to Prims, when it came time to do it or not I couldn't imagine handing him over and causing him any pain. I almost had a meltdown during the stupid hearing exam and heel prick, no way could I let anything worse than that happen to him.

@JCWhitey : Hey gurl hey. Long time no see. Your ticker says you are 87 weeks pregnant. Best be having that baby. I'm kidding. Do I remember you from July 2013? Are you expecting or just lurking?

Tara0604 · February 2016

Our son is.

JCWhitey · February 2016

PrimRoseMama said:

JCWhitey said:

$300 and insurance didn't cover it so DS is not. Future sons also won't be. My decision was also similar to Prims, when it came time to do it or not I couldn't imagine handing him over and causing him any pain. I almost had a meltdown during the stupid hearing exam and heel prick, no way could I let anything worse than that happen to him.

@JCWhitey : Hey gurl hey. Long time no see. Your ticker says you are 87 weeks pregnant. Best be having that baby. I'm kidding. Do I remember you from July 2013? Are you expecting or just lurking?

@PrimRoseMama hey! Yup, I was around those parts. Kind of tapered off once he was born. Then I had a March '15 baby. And now I'm thinking an O16 baby! Got two BFPs on dip sticks this weekend. But I haven't actually had AF since DD was born 11 months ago so I have no idea how far along I really am.

PrimRoseMama · February 2016

@JCWhitey : dang girl!! Congrats on both your new babies since I last saw you around TB!

JCWhitey · February 2016

@PrimRoseMama Thanks! And congrats on being on your way to #3. Btw, it took way longer than it should have for me to remember how to change my siggy.

PrimRoseMama · February 2016

JCWhitey said:

@PrimRoseMama Thanks! And congrats on being on your way to #3. Btw, it took way longer than it should have for me to remember how to change my siggy.

You've been gone too long! Welcome back!

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