Article on strict new guidelines on drinking while TTC

skiingstark · February 2016

So I am firmly in the drink till it is pink group, but this article suggest that we should not be drinking at all while trying. Wow, talk about extreme and what evidence is CDC basing it off where if I drink till 4 weeks when I finally can test it could hurt the baby? Its seems like it just talks about the issues of drinking later on during pregnancy.Lets just add another thing to feel guilty about, without any real evidence.... But as someone who had a mc, I wonder is it because I drank up till 4ish weeks....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/02/02/the-serious-problem-for-millions-of-women-who-drink/?tid=sm_fb

Highlights from it
"But the CDC warns that the risks are too high, especially given that most women don't know they are pregnant until they are four to six weeks along. The agency says women should stop drinking when they stop using birth control.

“Every woman who is pregnant or trying to get pregnant — and her partner – want a healthy baby,” Coleen Boyle, director of CDC’s National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, said in a statement. “But they may not be aware that drinking any alcohol at any stage of pregnancy can cause a range of disabilities for their child. It is critical for healthcare providers to assess a woman’s drinking habits during routine medical visits; advise her not to drink at all if she is pregnant, trying to get pregnant or sexually active and not using birth control; and recommend services if she needs help to stop drinking.”

redheeler · February 2016

Just remember that there have been no studies done on mild-moderate drinking during pregnancy, the only stats are based on heavy drinking, there's no evidence to point to 1std drink every now and then doing any kind of damage. Plus how many women do you know of who have found out late (12wks) that they were pregnant and at some point in that time had gone out on a massive bender and their kids are fine, my mum was one of those.

mrsstuessy · February 2016

Wow, that lady sounds like she would be really fun at parties. So, if you are not on birth control you need to stop drinking? Well, I was on birth control and still got knocked up. So, I guess I am just an inept mother. oops.

GhanimaAtreides · February 2016

America is kind of the oddball when it comes to alcohol while pregnant. I'm not sure if it's rooted in prohibition or religiousness or what, but the powers that be seemed to have decided that American women have zero self control whatsoever and no sense of moderation.

So on the other hand, there's studies like this: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/451623/Pregnant-women-drinking-a-bottle-of-wine-a-month-have-better-behaved-children-says-report

I think everyone can agree binge drinking is bad. I just wish they'd study the light to moderate range more.

LoveIsOwlYouNeed · February 2016

skiingstark said:

So I am firmly in the drink till it is pink group, but this article suggest that we should not be drinking at all while trying. Wow, talk about extreme and what evidence is CDC basing it off where if I drink till 4 weeks when I finally can test it could hurt the baby? Its seems like it just talks about the issues of drinking later on during pregnancy.Lets just add another thing to feel guilty about, without any real evidence.... But as someone who had a mc, I wonder is it because I drank up till 4ish weeks....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/02/02/the-serious-problem-for-millions-of-women-who-drink/?tid=sm_fb

Highlights from it
"But the CDC warns that the risks are too high, especially given that most women don't know they are pregnant until they are four to six weeks along. The agency says women should stop drinking when they stop using birth control.
“Every woman who is pregnant or trying to get pregnant — and her partner – want a healthy baby,” Coleen Boyle, director of CDC’s National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, said in a statement. “But they may not be aware that drinking any alcohol at any stage of pregnancy can cause a range of disabilities for their child. It is critical for healthcare providers to assess a woman’s drinking habits during routine medical visits; advise her not to drink at all if she is pregnant, trying to get pregnant or sexually active and not using birth control; and recommend services if she needs help to stop drinking.”

A majority of miscarriages are caused by chromosomal defects and there's nothing anyone can do to cause or prevent them. So, don't even play that what-if game. It's not fair or nice to do to yourself!

I think it's pretty silly to expect a woman to not drink if she doesn't know she is/could be pregnant, hence I am a drink til it's pink advocate. But once you know, I just don't think it's worth the risk. I know someone with FAS, and it's not fun. Why risk it?

redheeler · February 2016

@Lizzie5831 but if they were to study the moderate range there would likely be no significant results and would significantly reduce the shock factor that results when you show the results of the high range.

simcal18 · February 2016

“Every woman who is pregnant or trying to get pregnant — and her partner – want a healthy baby,” Coleen Boyle, director of CDC’s National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, said in a statement. “But they may not be aware that drinking any alcohol at any stage of pregnancy can cause a range of disabilities for their child. It is critical for healthcare providers to assess a woman’s drinking habits during routine medical visits; advise her not to drink at all if she is pregnant, trying to get pregnant or sexually active and not using birth control; and recommend services if she needs help to stop drinking.”

Oh hell to the no. The last thing pregnant women and soon-to-be pregnant women need is yet another thing to be stressed about without reason. For one, the statement that drinking "any" alcohol at "any" stage of pregnancy can cause a range of disabilities for a child is a ridiculous exaggeration. There is zero evidence that light drinking during late pregancy can cause disabilities. Granted, there is also insufficient evidence that it is safe. So the decision as to whether to take that risk is up to each individual woman. But fearmongering does nothing and if anything is counterproductive.

Second, setting aside the idea that a glass of wine or two at a few days post-implantation is highly unlikely to have a negative effect on an embryo when a placenta hasn't even developed yet and mom and embryo aren't even sharing a blood supply -- the idea that women should not drink while TTC because they MIGHT be pregnant treats women like idiotic, uneducated sheep who don't know how to interpret a pregnancy test -- or, you know, AF. Frankly, it's insulting. I have a basic understanting of biology. I can use that understanding of biology to make a determination as to whether or not I am likely to be pregnant and base my decisions regarding consumption of alcohol on that determination. I am not going to abstain from alcohol during what may be a years-long process (which BTW will be followed by 9 months of absention from alcohol, plus more light alcohol consumption if I breastfeed) because some morons at the CDC don't think that I'm smart enough to figure out whether I'm pregnant. Nope. Nope nope nope.

I realize that these recommendations are meant to minimize risk. And I also realize that they often have to cater to the lowest common demominator -- the I-didn't-know-I was-pregnant folks who nearly pop out a baby on the toilet; the alcoholics who tell their doctor they have "one drink a night" when 1 drink really means 6. But this is ridiculous.

KLake42 · February 2016

I agree that this advice seems rooted in Prohibition culture.

At the same time, I am aware that for women TTC with IVF, abstaining from alcohol correlates with some small increase in pregnancy rates. That's enough for me, and I quit drinking while TTC (I have enough cards stacked against me as it is).

For what it's worth, though, some studied have been done on moderate drinking. For those who are into the science stuff, you can check these out. But I think there are also some studies that are inconclusive, so read the studies, not just the summaries.
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh23-1/25-30.pdf
https://www.nofas.org/light-drinking/

khbear · February 2016

What I always come back to is women have been drinking alcohol for a very, very long time... And there are still people. So yknow, obviously it doesn't kill everyone.

FAS is a very serious and awful disease, and I've seen it first hand several times. However, when I've seen it, the pregnant woman in question was an alcoholic - she didn't have a glass of wine with dinner, she didn't get drunk on a cruise right before her BFP, she was a good old fashioned alcoholic. Those are wildly different sides of a spectrum. The reason why there is "no safe amount" of alcohol consumption during pregnancy is because a medical trial in which they follow women drinking measured, controlled different amounts of alcohol during pregnancy to find that sweet spot where FAS develops would be EXTREMELY unethical. I mean, can you imagine? "Hi, we want you to drink x amount of drinks a week so we can see if it ends your pregnancy or buys your child a lifetime of disability - but oh yeah we will give you some money." Gee cool.

Editted for clarity - my point here is while there is no safe amount of alcohol during pregnancy on the books, there will most likely never be true evidence for a safe amount, because these things can only be done in retrospect and they can't ask you to measure what you drank and follow you the whole nine months. So it's never going to be called safe. With that, take what you want out of it.

Lulucooks · February 2016

Drink till it's pink, because we are monitoring everything so closely and will know we are pregnant before the placenta is formed and we share our blood stream with the baby.
I can understand why this is the recommendation since not every woman knows as early as possible. But recommendations are just that, recommendations, and should be applied to everyones individual life as needed.

No amount of alcohol is safe after a BFP. Ever. Anywhere. For any reason. The risk is too high.

LittleMissTimeLord · February 2016

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms the second a study comes out that suggests further limits on drinking while TTC/ potentially pregnant/ pregnant.

We're not rioting in the streets over sushi and un-pasteurized cheese, what is with the uproar over the alcohol recommendations? We're changing so many other habits to help ourselves get KTFU (taking vitamins, increasing exercise, trying to live healthier in general), I don't understand why alcohol-related medical recommendations are any different.

I'm not going to police other women that are TTC, but I'm of the "why risk it" party myself. I'll abstain until AF shows up and then pop bottles like I'm P.Diddy before I ovulate.

khbear · February 2016

LittleMissTimeLord said:

We're not rioting in the streets over sushi and un-pasteurized cheese, what is with the uproar over the alcohol recommendations? We're changing so many other habits to help ourselves get KTFU (taking vitamins, increasing exercise, trying to live healthier in general), I don't understand why alcohol-related medical recommendations are any different.

To keep this on topic, I agree why risk it - but oh my glory I'm eating sushi like a mad woman during AFs right now, because I know I can't when I'm KTFU.

edit to fix my bold fail.

simcal18 · February 2016

LittleMissTimeLord said:

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms the second a study comes out that suggests further limits on drinking while TTC/ potentially pregnant/ pregnant.

We're not rioting in the streets over sushi and un-pasteurized cheese, what is with the uproar over the alcohol recommendations? We're changing so many other habits to help ourselves get KTFU (taking vitamins, increasing exercise, trying to live healthier in general), I don't understand why alcohol-related medical recommendations are any different.

I'm not going to police other women that are TTC, but I'm of the "why risk it" party myself. I'll abstain until AF shows up and then pop bottles like I'm P.Diddy before I ovulate.

There's a big difference between recommending abstention before the BFP and after. Nobody's telling me to put away the blue cheese and sushi while TTC because I might be pregnant. Prenatal vitamins are different because it's important that folic acid/folate be there from the moment of conception and it takes months to build up to optimal levels. And as to general diet and exercise . . . that's never not a good idea.

LittleMissTimeLord · February 2016

simcal18 said:

LittleMissTimeLord said:

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms the second a study comes out that suggests further limits on drinking while TTC/ potentially pregnant/ pregnant.

We're not rioting in the streets over sushi and un-pasteurized cheese, what is with the uproar over the alcohol recommendations? We're changing so many other habits to help ourselves get KTFU (taking vitamins, increasing exercise, trying to live healthier in general), I don't understand why alcohol-related medical recommendations are any different.

I'm not going to police other women that are TTC, but I'm of the "why risk it" party myself. I'll abstain until AF shows up and then pop bottles like I'm P.Diddy before I ovulate.

There's a big difference between recommending abstention before the BFP and after. Nobody's telling me to put away the blue cheese and sushi while TTC because I might be pregnant. Prenatal vitamins are different because it's important that folic acid/folate needs to be there from the moment of conception and takes months to build up to optimal levels. And as to general diet and exercise . . . that's never not a good idea.

Actually, plenty of doctors tell women to start avoiding pregnancy-related things before they're knocked up if they're actively TTC. And many women decide to improve their diet and exercise when they start TTC. I'm referring to those women specifically. The ones that make actual lifestyle changes in an effort to make their body healthier before TTC.

Again, you do you, but I'll never understand why women get so damn pissed off about this topic. If you don't want to abstain before your BFP then just, you know, don't.

simcal18 · February 2016

LittleMissTimeLord said:

simcal18 said:

LittleMissTimeLord said:

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms the second a study comes out that suggests further limits on drinking while TTC/ potentially pregnant/ pregnant.

We're not rioting in the streets over sushi and un-pasteurized cheese, what is with the uproar over the alcohol recommendations? We're changing so many other habits to help ourselves get KTFU (taking vitamins, increasing exercise, trying to live healthier in general), I don't understand why alcohol-related medical recommendations are any different.

I'm not going to police other women that are TTC, but I'm of the "why risk it" party myself. I'll abstain until AF shows up and then pop bottles like I'm P.Diddy before I ovulate.

There's a big difference between recommending abstention before the BFP and after. Nobody's telling me to put away the blue cheese and sushi while TTC because I might be pregnant. Prenatal vitamins are different because it's important that folic acid/folate needs to be there from the moment of conception and takes months to build up to optimal levels. And as to general diet and exercise . . . that's never not a good idea.

Actually, plenty of doctors tell women to start avoiding pregnancy-related things before they're knocked up if they're actively TTC. And many women decide to improve their diet and exercise when they start TTC. I'm referring to those women specifically. The ones that make actual lifestyle changes in an effort to make their body healthier before TTC.

Again, you do you, but I'll never understand why women get so damn pissed off about this topic. If you don't want to abstain before your BFP then just, you know, don't.

I'm one of those women making diet and exercise changes. I'm doing that because it will be good for me regardless of whether I become KU, and because it will make pregnancy easier for me and for baby from the moment of conception.

What I am not doing is abstaining from things that are of no risk/harm to me or my chances of TTC, but would not be good for an embryo that does not even exist yet -- i.e. sushi, soft cheeses, etc. Doing that would be pointless, because again, that embryo does not yet exist. Do you understand the difference? I've never heard of a doctor telling women to start making those types of dietary changes while TTC, and if I heard a doctor do so I would seriously question their judgment as to risk evaluation.

We tell people on this board all the time not to live like you're pregnant until you are. This is no exception.

Xstatic3333 · February 2016

LittleMissTimeLord said:

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms the second a study comes out that suggests further limits on drinking while TTC/ potentially pregnant/ pregnant.

We're not rioting in the streets over sushi and un-pasteurized cheese, what is with the uproar over the alcohol recommendations? We're changing so many other habits to help ourselves get KTFU (taking vitamins, increasing exercise, trying to live healthier in general), I don't understand why alcohol-related medical recommendations are any different.

I'm not going to police other women that are TTC, but I'm of the "why risk it" party myself. I'll abstain until AF shows up and then pop bottles like I'm P.Diddy before I ovulate.

Even that, however, would be against the recommendations in this article. That's what I think is so extreme. No drinking even during AF? I know some chose to give it up for overall health reasons or special cases, and nothing wrong with that, but I hate the fear mongering that can cause unneeded hurt to women like the OP.

I agree with many PPs that these recommendations are treating women like we don't understand our bodies at all. Like many, I'm trying to be overall more healthy and drink only moderately, but if this takes a long time there's no way I'm cutting it out entirely. There's just no reason, for me, that it's necessary when I'll know I'm pregnant extremely early on. I'm applying the same guideline to my diving. Drink and dive 'til it's pink.

I actually don't really agree with the sushi recommendation, either, with the exception of high Mercury fishes. I'll definitely continue eating cooked sushi (sushi chefs are very stringent about cross contamination) and would eat raw from trusted restaurants if H weren't already set against it.

mrsstuessy · February 2016

Xstatic3333 said:

LittleMissTimeLord said:

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms the second a study comes out that suggests further limits on drinking while TTC/ potentially pregnant/ pregnant.

We're not rioting in the streets over sushi and un-pasteurized cheese, what is with the uproar over the alcohol recommendations? We're changing so many other habits to help ourselves get KTFU (taking vitamins, increasing exercise, trying to live healthier in general), I don't understand why alcohol-related medical recommendations are any different.

I'm not going to police other women that are TTC, but I'm of the "why risk it" party myself. I'll abstain until AF shows up and then pop bottles like I'm P.Diddy before I ovulate.

Even that, however, would be against the recommendations in this article. That's what I think is so extreme. No drinking even during AF? I know some chose to give it up for overall health reasons or special cases, and nothing wrong with that, but I hate the fear mongering that can cause unneeded hurt to women like the OP.

I agree with many PPs that these recommendations are treating women like we don't understand our bodies at all. Like many, I'm trying to be overall more healthy and drink only moderately, but if this takes a long time there's no way I'm cutting it out entirely. There's just no reason, for me, that it's necessary when I'll know I'm pregnant extremely early on. I'm applying the same guideline to my diving. Drink and dive 'til it's pink.

I actually don't really agree with the sushi recommendation, either, with the exception of high Mercury fishes. I'll definitely continue eating cooked sushi (sushi chefs are very stringent about cross contamination) and would eat raw from trusted restaurants if H weren't already set against it.

Yep, I'm the lady that ate sushi when pregnant. It was from a trusted restaurant, not the gas station. I also ate deli meat and drank coffee. I am a grown ass woman that can read the results of several studies and understands the risks of things. I don't need to be treated like a child.

LittleMissTimeLord · February 2016

@Xstatic3333 I never said I don't drink during AF.
@simcal18 I do understand the difference, but thanks for implying that I don't. I know several women that are TTC and have been instructed by medical professionals to cut out all of the things pregnant women are told to cut out. I have not personally vetted the medical background of all of my their doctors but I assume that they have their reasons. My doctor didn't tell me to abstain from anything before I get KU, I've made my own choices. I've made a lot of decisions for myself based on my own research. And I never told anyone to live like they're pregnant. I'm not here giving advice, I'm here sharing what my current experience is.

I'm not here to argue with anyone about their own choices for drinking. My point was only to point out that the CDC and other agencies make recommendations about what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies all the time, regardless of pregnancy, and they don't enrage people like this idea of abstaining from alcohol does. I don't get it, but also, I don't care what you personally do with your uterus.

I literally not once, not ever, told anyone here to not drink before their BFP.

That said, I'm going to go ahead and tap out on this chat. I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about whether it's right or it's wrong. That wasn't the intention or the content of my original post. I simply offered a different opinion on abstaining from alcohol and that it's what fits for me, personally.

simcal18 · February 2016

LittleMissTimeLord said:

@Xstatic3333 I never said I don't drink during AF.
@simcal18 I do understand the difference, but thanks for implying that I don't. I know several women that are TTC and have been instructed by medical professionals to cut out all of the things pregnant women are told to cut out. I have not personally vetted the medical background of all of my their doctors but I assume that they have their reasons. My doctor didn't tell me to abstain from anything before I get KU, I've made my own choices. I've made a lot of decisions for myself based on my own research. And I never told anyone to live like they're pregnant. I'm not here giving advice, I'm here sharing what my current experience is.

I'm not here to argue with anyone about their own choices for drinking. My point was only to point out that the CDC and other agencies make recommendations about what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies all the time, regardless of pregnancy, and they don't enrage people like this idea of abstaining from alcohol does. I don't get it, but also, I don't care what you personally do with your uterus.

I literally not once, not ever, told anyone here to not drink before their BFP.

That said, I'm going to go ahead and tap out on this chat. I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about whether it's right or it's wrong. That wasn't the intention or the content of my original post. I simply offered a different opinion on abstaining from alcohol and that it's what fits for me, personally.

I never meant to imply that you didn't understand the distinction. I was merely explaining it. And I reiterate my statement that if a doctor told me to avoid things that are of no harm to me or my chances of TTC but would potentially be harmful to an embryo that doesn't even exist yet, I would find another doctor, because we would clearly not be on the same page about how to evaluate risk.

As to why this recommendation is "enraging" - I explained that in my earlier post. It is enraging and insulting because it assumes that women are not smart enough to figure out whether they are pregnant or even possibly pregnant, and to make decisions about whether to consume alcohol accordingly. It's essentially saying "gee, whiz, the poor little dears may not be smart enough to POAS or figure out when their last period was or even whether they're having one right this minute, so we're just going to tell them not to drink at all in case they're knocked up and don't know it."

The other thing about this recommendation that's enraging to me is that it's so clearly overbroad that to me it calls into question not only this recommendation but other CDC recommendations as well. This is the same CDC that recently issued travel guidelines about the Zika virus, which caused several people on this board to either postpone plans to TTC or delay/cancel/reschedule vacations costing thousands of dollars. Were those recommendations similarly overbroad or were they better considered? I don't know. But I'd like better science from the CDC than "there may potentially be some modicum of risk here, so we're telling you to avoid it." And that seems to be what we're getting.

izza2 · February 2016

Ignoring the drinking debate, because IDGAF right now.

I would like to point this out, though:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2016/p0202-alcohol-exposed-pregnancy.html
^ The actual study information. Not the press-edited version.

"“Alcohol can permanently harm a developing baby before a woman knows she is pregnant,” said CDC Principal Deputy Director Anne Schuchat, M.D. “About half of all pregnancies in the United States are unplanned, and even if planned, most women won’t know they are pregnant for the first month or so, when they might still be drinking. The risk is real. Why take the chance?”"

Clearly, this press release does not apply to those of you that are TTC. You know you're pregnant within the first two weeks, not after the first month.

And just to add to that:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/dpk/2016/dpk-vs-alcohol-pregnancy.html

The second image shows what is developing in the fetus and when, and what is affected with alcohol intake.
Nothing in the first 1-2 weeks (AKA: the TWW) that is developing would result in lasting effects from alcohol intake.

In other words -- keep doing you. If you want to drink, do so. If you don't, then don't.

britters314 · February 2016

Also, @skiingstark would you mind editing the title of the thread? It's strict, not stricked. Not trying to belittle you or anything for not spelling correctly - it just is bugging me lol

ETA: Oh, and guidelines. Though I actually didn't even notice that one for a while.

Everycol0r · February 2016

Stricked

wintersong · February 2016

izza2 said:

Ignoring the drinking debate, because IDGAF right now.

I would like to point this out, though:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2016/p0202-alcohol-exposed-pregnancy.html
^ The actual study information. Not the press-edited version.

"“Alcohol can permanently harm a developing baby before a woman knows she is pregnant,” said CDC Principal Deputy Director Anne Schuchat, M.D. “About half of all pregnancies in the United States are unplanned, and even if planned, most women won’t know they are pregnant for the first month or so, when they might still be drinking. The risk is real. Why take the chance?”"

Clearly, this press release does not apply to those of you that are TTC. You know you're pregnant within the first two weeks, not after the first month.

And just to add to that:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/dpk/2016/dpk-vs-alcohol-pregnancy.html

The second image shows what is developing in the fetus and when, and what is affected with alcohol intake.
Nothing in the first 1-2 weeks (AKA: the TWW) that is developing would result in lasting effects from alcohol intake.

In other words -- keep doing you. If you want to drink, do so. If you don't, then don't.

I didn't read this particular media story, but i get so aggravated at the spin the news always puts on studies. TB blog is particularly bad about this. News outlets take a study, create the most inflammatory titles, and report correlation as if it is certain to cause. I hate it!

ETA one just showed up on my news feed: "Study shows one glass of wine equal to thirty minutes of exercise." Um...no. Not even close to what the study shows.

Xstatic3333 · February 2016

@LittleMissTimeLord I apologize, I definitely didn't mean to imply that you said that, nor did I think you did. That comment was directed toward the article, not you, as were all complaints in general. Agree completely with your point that what women do while TTC is between them, their partners, and their doctors. Don't agree at all with this article or the woman quoted in it. Probably confused the issue by quoting you, and that was my bad. I get really fired up about rules that make no sense.

britters314 · February 2016

Image: https://www.cdc.gov/media/images/dpk/2016/dpk-vs-alcohol-pregnancy/infographic-alcohol-pregnant-women.jpg

So this is from the CDC. I just think those drinking risks for non-pregnant women are hilarious. Apparently if I drink too much the alcohol can give me an STD.

wintersong · February 2016

bcooke314 said:

So this is from the CDC. I just think those drinking risks for non-pregnant women are hilarious. Apparently if I drink too much the alcohol can give me an STD.

So women in countries with lower drinking ages drink too much?

NamelessAria · February 2016

Confession: if I could drink (can't due to medical reasons not related to TTC) I'd probably be getting my day drunk on at least occasionally during AF. I really, really miss wine. If I got a hallpass (so to speak) where it was cool for me to drink for a day I'd totally be smashed that whole day. I don't even care if it was 8DPO or something. Negative test? Perfect. Time to party!

ETA: That being said, if I ever get KTFU again I'm totally going to be that super overly cautious pregnant lady. I was terrified of something going wrong the first now and now after a loss I'm even more paranoid about something going wrong. There is no way I'd risk it on the "it's probably not a great idea but it may be fine in moderation" things. But that's just me. And I realize other ladies feel differently and that's totally fine.

Xstatic3333 · February 2016

bcooke314 said:

So this is from the CDC. I just think those drinking risks for non-pregnant women are hilarious. Apparently if I drink too much the alcohol can give me an STD.

Unintended pregnancy AND fertility problems!

There are definite health risks to drinking too much for anybody but something about this ad (non-pregnant side) rubs me the wrong way. I might feel better about it if there is an equivalent ad for men. I think it's the way it ties drinking to sexual decisions as if having a few drinks means a woman is going to lose all control. I do drink socially, so I'll also put out the possibility that it's making me feel defensive for some reason.

If I'm being overly sensitive you're all welcome to let me know.

MonaLisaRalphio · February 2016

@bcooke314 wow, that infographic is straight up insulting. Good to know I can get an STD from craft beer.

I'm on the fence about the new recommendations about drinking in later pregnancy, but while TTC and especially WTO? Beers on beers on beers.

britters314 · February 2016

Xstatic3333 said:

bcooke314 said:

So this is from the CDC. I just think those drinking risks for non-pregnant women are hilarious. Apparently if I drink too much the alcohol can give me an STD.

Unintended pregnancy AND fertility problems!

There are definite health risks to drinking too much for anybody but something about this ad (non-pregnant side) rubs me the wrong way. I might feel better about it if there is an equivalent ad for men. I think it's the way it ties drinking to sexual decisions as if having a few drinks means a woman is going to lose all control. I do drink socially, so I'll also put out the possibility that it's making me feel defensive for some reason.

If I'm being overly sensitive you're all welcome to let me know.

Nope, you are definitely not being overly sensitive. I'm not sure if there is an equivalent ad for men..

FiancB · February 2016

The CDC is all about public health. If you work with in healthcare with the general public... well... it's only a matter of time before you find someone that thinks that BCPs go in the vag. So. There's that. It's not so much a lack of credibility as desperation to get people to stop doing obviously dumb shit. Their target market is not people who chart, know when to test, or have a clue what the difference is between follicular and luteal phases. Alcohol abuse is a risk factor for STDs, but going way into that is beyond the scope of an infograph and will probably go over a lot of people's heads. Maybe not yours, but I think the official reading level for educational health materials is around 6th grade (although I am really having to hold back on a smartass remark about the spelling).

I personally think it isn't bad advice to limit drinking when TTC. Obviously, if you are drinking too much on the regular while TTC (which is technically more than around a drink a night for women), that has repercussions for your health and thus TTC. I don't think it's reasonable to insist everyone stop drinking altogether, but that's not really the message I'm getting here.

Meh. I got plastered on CD1 a couple days ago and plan on taking it easy henceforth. I personally don't feel comfortable doing anything that I wouldn't do pregnant after about 3 DPO, but that's also including some prescription meds. So whatever. So long as you aren't drinking and pregnant, I don't really give a crap.

tl;dr: chill. You have a good understanding of when an embryo could potentially be sucking your blood, so drink away. Most people don't. Probably including the person that wrote the Washington Post article.

whiska · February 2016

I don't think it's really targeting women, in the negative sense. Everything they list on the "non-pregnant" side has been show through studies to have some relationship (though not necessarily causal) with alcohol abuse. They could have titled that, "For any person...", but since women are in the unique position of being able to become pregnant, it makes sense to bring this to women's attention specifically.

Let's not forget that this is an infographic by the CDC, meant to be viewed by many cross-sections of the population. Which is why I don't find the recommendations particularly demeaning to women; it's protective of future children. I consider you guys to be in the top you know, 10-15% when it comes to understanding your cycle, and how many people have come to this board and said, even after the first month, "Wow, thanks so much to you ladies I know so much more about what's going on with my body that I never really knew before!"

IMHO the CDC and subsequent news outlets really mucked up its reporting on this. That VitalSigns text is poorly written and all over the place, with no citations. It feels like the true audience is healthcare practitioners, who can screen patients who are binge drinking and perhaps more tactfully counsel them on the risks involved.

I did find this, https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh341/29-37.htm, which indicates there can be some epigenetic factors playing a part in pre-implantation issues. And then there's this, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/11146012/Binge-drinking-and-pregnancy-5-myths-busted.html, where their expert says there's a risk, but it's small. But there is a risk.

As always, do your research, weigh the risks, and make the best decision for you!

Xstatic3333 · February 2016

Definitely fair points, @FiancB and @whiska. Particularly about the way it was reported. From what I've read the CDC recommendations simply cover women who may be pregnant (really equivalent to those of us who test before drinking in the TWW). It was the Washington Post who seemed to extrapolate that to any woman not on birth control.

H and I have an ongoing debate about whether the Washington Post is a quality paper, and this article was placed squarely in H's "no" column.

skiingstark · February 2016

bcooke314 said:

Also, @skiingstark would you mind editing the title of the thread? It's strict, not stricked. Not trying to belittle you or anything for not spelling correctly - it just is bugging me lol

ETA: Oh, and guidelines. Though I actually didn't even notice that one for a while.

Fixed, sorry that is what happens when you post when drinking

furbabymom2007 · February 2016

Just have to say... I definitely laughed out loud at the craft beer causing stds comment. If that was true... Well let's just say that i would not be a healthy woman.

also, thank you for fixing the spelling typo in the title

. It confuses the hell out of me at first

britters314 · February 2016

skiingstark said:

bcooke314 said:

Also, @skiingstark would you mind editing the title of the thread? It's strict, not stricked. Not trying to belittle you or anything for not spelling correctly - it just is bugging me lol

ETA: Oh, and guidelines. Though I actually didn't even notice that one for a while.

Fixed, sorry that is what happens when you post when drinking

I literally lol'ed when I read that

ETA: Or is it l'ed-o-l. How do you make lol past tense?

FiancB · February 2016

Xstatic3333 said:

H and I have an ongoing debate about whether the Washington Post is a quality paper, and this article was placed squarely in H's "no" column.

I haven't read it a whole lot, but what I've seen makes me think of something that a high school kid writes when forced and just puts in just enough words to meet the requirements for the assignment.

[Deleted User] · February 2016

Entertaining article on this topic from Jezebel. I love Jezebel. https://jezebel.com/an-unrealistic-warning-from-the-cdc-to-women-dont-drin-1756823580

KLake42 · February 2016

izza2 said:

Clearly, this press release does not apply to those of you that are TTC. You know you're pregnant within the first two weeks, not after the first month.

This is where I wish we received more science from the article. According to weird pregnancy timing, you are "one month pregnant" when it's been one month since your last period. Which is about as early as most pregnant women would turn a test pink. So, at the moment of BFP, you are pretty much one month pregnant.

Is that what the article is suggesting, or do they mean one month from implantation? Who knows?

I did find the study suggesting that women drinking 5 or more drinks a week are less likely to get pregnant than women drinking less than 5 drinks a week. It doesn't track women who don't drink at all. For anyone who is struggling with TTC, and who drinks a daily glass of wine, I respect whatever choice you make with your body. I was a daily evening cocktail drinker until I saw this study last year, and then I stopped because I read this.

https://www.bmj.com/content/317/7157/505.abstract
The moderate drinkers (5 or more drinks/week) are half as likely to get pregnant than the occasional drinkers.

They recognize that it needs more studies to be really conclusive, though.

rkstro2 · February 2016

bcooke314 said:

So this is from the CDC. I just think those drinking risks for non-pregnant women are hilarious. Apparently if I drink too much the alcohol can give me an STD.

Haha. According to this we should apparently all be drinking bc it can also make you pregnant!

britters314 · February 2016

rkstro2 said:

bcooke314 said:

So this is from the CDC. I just think those drinking risks for non-pregnant women are hilarious. Apparently if I drink too much the alcohol can give me an STD.

Haha. According to this we should apparently all be drinking bc it can also make you pregnant!

No, it can only cause unplanned pregnancies, not planned ones :P

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