@CourtJack me too! & they totally did. They stopped producing the shirt after the C&D, but then were like wait- and started producing it again anyway. I thought it was hysterical.
Fetal Alcohol Syndrom is not something to fuck around with. I guarantee many of your friends who state they drank often and their "kid is fine," have children with attention, behavior, or learning difficulties. These struggles can be very subtle, or they can directly affect the child's ability to function in a classroom with their peers. Why in the world would any of you take this chance?
A sip of wine here and there is not going to cause FAS. Because, science...
I guess you missed the very first part of the story?
In an effort to once and for all put a rest to any debate about drinking during pregnancy, the American Academy of Pediatrics has put out a clear message: Don't do it. Ever. At all. Not even a tiny bit. "No amount of alcohol should be considered safe to drink during any trimester of pregnancy," the group wrote.
And hey, if it were just a sip here or there, I wouldn't side eye it. But that's not the case with a lot that's been said here.
Fetal Alcohol Syndrom is not something to fuck around with. I guarantee many of your friends who state they drank often and their "kid is fine," have children with attention, behavior, or learning difficulties. These struggles can be very subtle, or they can directly affect the child's ability to function in a classroom with their peers. Why in the world would any of you take this chance?
Because it's my kid and I have to deal with the consequences and not you? If I want a sip of wine or a mini mimosa, so what? We don't judge those who choose not to drink a stop at all, so why are you judging us? Yes, I personally have read pretty much every piece of material out there in FAS and why it's bad to drink. DH and I have discussed this very topic, seeing as I drank like a fish before finding out I was pregnant, and we both agreed that a SIP, essentially a teaspoon and not even a mouthful, maybe once every other month wouldn't harm our child. My dr even said one glass a WEEK was fine since all my tests so far came back normal, and I feel fine. I know my body better than anyone else does.
Go back to lurking, or better yet, get to know the people you're attempting to talk to before trying to make us feel like bad parents-to-be..... My kid, my body, my choice.
Some things I probably worry about too much, but the things I don't worry about include:
Caffeine up to 200mg a day- having a latte right now as I am going to be at work late and my energy is waning. Highlighting my hair Baths- not crazy hot but nice and toasty Stairs?? Come on! My office is at the top of three flights! I had some beer the night before I tested positive (feeling pretty sure I was pregnant then) and I'm sure I'll have a few sips of it before June. Soft cheeses (this is fine as long as they are pasteurized. I was anal about it the first time around and wish I'd just relaxed) Picking up my hefty toddler Using a heating pad (just not directly on my belly) Aspartame... I don't drink it every day but I do enjoy diet pop here and there and it helps settle my stomach
I did all these things, minus the cheese, the first time around so I'm basically using the (likely flawed) logic that because my daughter is amazing, if I just repeat the same lifestyle, I'm in the clear .
One thing I've restrained myself on is hollandaise sauce, even though every time I'm at a breakfasty place I could kill for a whole side serving of it. I love the stuff. Am I being silly?
The AAP is just one group who is re-iterating their year's old position statement. Their recently released statement was not based on any new evidence. Studies have failed to demonstrate that that small amounts of alcohol intake during the second and third trimesters of pregnancy have any negative impact on the fetus, however, in an effort to be as safe as possible, the AAP and other groups in the US urge pregnant mothers not to drink. No safe amount of alcohol intake has been established because it is unethical to do that type of research on pregnant mothers/fetuses/babies. That doesn't automatically make any amount of alcohol unsafe. The recommendation not to drink makes sense to me in an effort to be as cautious as possible, but ultimately, it is up to the mother to make responsible decisions. Interesting how if you happen to move countries, the "science" changes:
From the NHS: Drinking small amounts of alcohol after the first trimester does not appear to be harmful for the unborn baby. However, you should not drink more than one to two units, and then not more than once or twice a week.
That is far less than the mothers on this board are reporting.
eta: wrong source, that quote was not from the NHS, rather the Royal College of Obstetricians Gynecologists similar to ACOG in the US.
I've listed below each reference to alcohol in this entire thread. Each line represents the "confession" of one person. If you seriously think you need to come here to throw URLs at us and to accuse us of being selfish and irresponsible we are - please read over the thread again. This is clearly not a collection of women who need to be told to lay of the hooch. <insert mammoth eye roll>
Our "helpless unborn babies" are all just fine thanks. But don't worry, I'll be sure to tell my son, when he's older, that once upon a time a lady swooped in on the internet to try and save him from a life of developmental disorders and FAS because his terrible and selfish mom had a glass of wine, once...oh, and a sip of beer.
Here's the scandalous list of boozey confessions from our group of alchys.
- I wouldn't be opposed to a glass of wine but haven't come across any that really strike my fancy lately.
- sips of wine/beer
- I cook with wine. A lot of wine. Most of the recipes I use, the wine cooks off for a long time like in stews and stuff, but others, I still get a hint of it when I'm eating and it is delish.
- cook with (liberal) wine, and will definitely have the occasional 1/2 glass when I'm in the home stretch
- Have had the occasional glass of wine throughout my pregnancy.
- I cant wait for wine in my third tri....Dr. said 4oz here and there wont hurt anything.
- 1. Small glass of champagne at thanksgiving 2. Small glass of red wine at new Years
- I have had sips of H's here and there after MS passed
- I have had a bit of wine here and there(will mix a tiny bit with ginger ale )
- I'll have a sip of wine if I'm cooking with it or a taste of DH's beer every now and then. We split a mini bottle of champagne last week and made mimosas when we had breakfast for dinner.
- I have had a little wine
- Cooked with wine
- Wine - I've had about a total of a half glass a week since 17 weeks (I'm 20 now)
@Linsbins clearly you both missed the entire point of the thread. And as much as anyone is welcome to come and disrupt a civil, supportive conversation, I'm allowed to say GTFO in response.
@CourtJack YES. All of that. There was no, "I took 12 shots of patron and hoped for the best."
*sigh* This was one of my favorite threads. I lurk on plenty of threads that I don't necessarily agree with. I might roll my eyes but I genuinely have better things to do with my time than start unwarranted drama on the Internet with a bunch of strangers. Y'know.
@Linsbins clearly you both missed the entire point of the thread. And as much as anyone is welcome to come and disrupt a civil, supportive conversation, I'm allowed to say GTFO in response.
I'm torn. I agree that your comment may have been too far (not much over the line but enough) but I also think that the "booze police" (too lazy to find their user name) were over the line here.
Did I maybe side-eye the people who choose to drink? A bit, but its their choice and if they're willing to take the risk and are responsible about it (and yes, I'm positive they've heard the 80 bajillion warnings about excessive drinking and pregnancy) then more power to them.
@Sgoldberg247 oh totes agree with you that my comment was over the line. normally would never have done it. I decided not to edit it, Bc quite frankly I love JLP and my tolerance for drama-toads today is non existent.
My point was more that the logic of 'they can do whatever' doesn't wash if they come back and say I can't do x. I don't agree with/wouldn't do a lot of what's on this thread, but this isn't the thread (IMO) to come in and shake a finger. Side-eyeing is totes what I did to those things that stuck out to me to.
I don't really understand how me sharing a recent article with you all summarizing the research conducted by an expert in the field of FAS is out of line?
I don't really understand how me sharing a recent article with you all summarizing the research conducted by an expert in the field of FAS is out of line?
Here's my thought...
This is a thread about things that these women know they're "not supposed to be doing" while pregnant. I assume that all of these women know that drinking during pregnancy is not okay otherwise they would be drinking a lot more than just a sip or two here and there.
I don't think that sipping any kind of alcohol is worth the risk, to be honest and I miss drinking like no other but I can wait to drink until June. Some women might not find eating tuna during pregnancy to be worth the risk, but I do despite knowing it isn't necessarily recommended. I didn't link anything to those drinking alcohol about FAS and they didn't link me anything about the effects of mercury on a fetus.
So to answer your question, it's not out of line. It's just annoying, I think, on a thread that's about things we already know we're not supposed to be doing to be told that we're not supposed to be doing it.
Excuse me while I don't click on your Daily Mail link. If you'd like to provide some peer-reviewed journal sources I would happy to review the information.
Through his research – and exposure to children with PFAS – the scientist determined that any amount of alcohol is dangerous for pregnant mothers.
Dr May said: ‘There is no safe level of alcohol to consume while you are pregnant.’
The study was published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence.
Actually no, that quote was paraphrased by the Daily Mail (which is known for sensationalist journalism of science and medical issues). What Dr. May stated, which has been stated time and time again and IS true, is that "There is no safe level of alcohol to consume while you are pregnant". Which is NOT the same thing as saying "any amount of alcohol is unsafe". No safe level has been established, therefore many experts, such as Dr. May, recommend abstaining completely. Other experts hedge their bets differently and offer slightly different advise, based on the same inconclusive research. For example, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist recommended limiting alcohol to one to two units once or twice a week.
Through his research – and exposure to children with PFAS – the scientist determined that any amount of alcohol is dangerous for pregnant mothers.
Dr May said: ‘There is no safe level of alcohol to consume while you are pregnant.’
The study was published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence.
Here is a link to the primary source. The information contained within is very different than what was put forth by the Daily Mail (and you).
The researchers, including Dr. May, concluded, among other things, "Academic and public health professionals, therefore, need to continue population-and clinic-based studies that will further establish the true prevalence of FAS within subsets of the U. S. population and further define the specific behavioral and medical risk factors for prenatal alcohol damage in off-spring. The greatest challenges will be to develop better diagnostic and categorical criteria and to conduct further studies of the prevalence and characteristics of ARBD and ARND".
FAS research is quite lacking, and for good reason given the population being studied. Please stop shaming mothers for taking a "sip of wine here and there". Particularly if you do not understand the research and/or are not willing to spend the time understanding the research.
eta: Here is another article published by Dr. May. He is finding that FAS rates have increased, but his research is not focus on the amount of alcohol causing disabilities, etc. The opinions he states are his own, and he is entitled to his well-informed opinions in his area of expertise. Other experts disagree..
All great points made by @TunieBee. In that first article by it says:
"Women who give birth to FAS and ARBD or ARND children generally practice frequent and protracted binge drinking, which produces high blood alcohol concentrations. Although a majority of women in many studies reduce their alcohol consumption during pregnancy, mothers of FAS children generally do not."
The focus isn't on having a sip or taste of wine occasionally. In fact, many of his papers focus on prevalence and not the compete avoidance of alcohol of the level of alcohol that causes FAS.
Guys come on! Don't be so mean. It obviously made them feel better about themselves to come on this thread and tell us how horrible we are. Side eye....articles to studies....this took a hilarious turn IMO.
Congratulations! This is your potentially your first experience with the whole "you're a terrible mother and your child is going to hell in a hand basket." Get ready for playgrounds or school drop offs where these AMAZING mothers will put you down for buying store bought for the bake sale or you're snobby for choosing cloth diapers. Or whatever it is you do that they don't do or like.
Take the lesson....don't let it ruin your day. Don't even let it ruin the next five minutes of by our life.
Ah man there goes this thread! I was hoping to read some funny stuff when I clicked on it.
The only thing I'll add is it's not just FAS or no FAS. Yes, science says my baby won't have FAS from a few sips of wine here and there. But what about learning difficulties? Attention difficulties? Executive functioning?
That's why I'm not drinking at all. BUT everyone chooses to take different risks during pregnancy (and life in general). For example, I eat a lot of sugar daily. Other women choose to restrict.
Married July 2014 DD born June 2016 Second due August 2020 (team green!)
Can we not do this? It's disgusting how women's bodies and choices are constantly policed. Based on the interactions I've had on this board, we are capable and competent. Trust me, no one wants a healthy baby more than I do--and I'm sure the same is true for all of us. It's okay to disagree, particularly in the absence of adequate research, but I strongly resent the implication that anyone here needs to feel bad about their "transgressions".
Guys come on! Don't be so mean. It obviously made them feel better about themselves to come on this thread and tell us how horrible we are. Side eye....articles to studies....this took a hilarious turn IMO.
Congratulations! This is your potentially your first experience with the whole "you're a terrible mother and your child is going to hell in a hand basket." Get ready for playgrounds or school drop offs where these AMAZING mothers will put you down for buying store bought for the bake sale or you're snobby for choosing cloth diapers. Or whatever it is you do that they don't do or like.
Take the lesson....don't let it ruin your day. Don't even let it ruin the next five minutes of by our life.
Can we not do this? It's disgusting how women's bodies and choices are constantly policed. Based on the interactions I've had on this board, we are capable and competent. Trust me, no one wants a healthy baby more than I do--and I'm sure the same is true for all of us. It's okay to disagree, particularly in the absence of adequate research, but I strongly resent the implication that anyone here needs to feel bad about their "transgressions".
Agreed. I wil be done responding. I was enjoying this thread also.
I drink a cup of regular coffee every single morning. And sometimes have some diet coke later too. Looks like I better watch out for the caffiene police!
So I haven't read all 6 pages, but a lot of things are not going to hurt you anyway. Either that, or I have the coolest doctor ever. The only thing (other than alcohol and drugs) she said to avoid was high mercury fish (so no swordfish) and make sure to only have pasteurized foods and drinks (which most things in the US are pasteurized if you buy it in a store).. She said limit the amount of tuna a week to 4-6 ounces, and I usually use the small cans anyway.
My doctor said hot tubs are fine if they are below 102- my parents have one and they keep it at 100. Herbal tea is fine, cold cuts are fine. I don't eat sushi, so I don't really know her thoughts on that. Caffeine is fine in moderation a cup or two (I don't drink coffee anyway).
It's funny because my sister said her doctor said what most of you have said, heat deli meat, no sushi, not green tea, no coffee. Each doctor is different, but there are clearly different thoughts on some things, and the ones that are important every doctor reiterates (high mercury fish for example).
The thing with deli meat and other foods that aren't cooked properly are food poising and getting sick (listeria, for example). No one says stop eating salads because they might be contaminated. Everyone has to use their own common sense. I don't really care about alcohol that much to drink any, but I won't sideye someone for having a small glass or a sip if they're pregnant.
My mom says they never told her all this stuff and me and my sisters came out fine. (She doesn't eat fish though!). My grandma said she drank wine when she was pregnant, because they didn't know any better. My mom and my aunt says they are lucky to be alive (jokingly).
Are we not supposed to have herbal teas? I've been drinking kcups of Tazo iced passion on the daily
ETA I'm pretty lax on most of these, I eat sushi, med rare meat, eat tuna, cold deli meat, read, Dr Pepper (yum!) except for the alcohol. I just can't and I personally think it's not worth the risk of FAS or anything else. I did have a sip or two with DD but now I look at her and I just can't this pregnancy. (She's fine and perfect and reminds me to knee L going strong)
I love it this discussion! I'm guilty of so many things but seems like we all are! Deli sandwiches, hot bath and showers, a Mt. dew or Coke once in a while.... Or maybe twice a weekish lol. Some soft cheese, and lifting a few heavy things. I just say moderation is key
Re: You're Not Supposed To Do That
*edited to remove pic (it's qfp below if you want to see it). Don't want to offend any bumpies with my sour humor today. Sorry y'all!
In an effort to once and for all put a rest to any debate about drinking during pregnancy, the American Academy of Pediatrics has put out a clear message: Don't do it. Ever. At all. Not even a tiny bit. "No amount of alcohol should be considered safe to drink during any trimester of pregnancy," the group wrote.
And hey, if it were just a sip here or there, I wouldn't side eye it. But that's not the case with a lot that's been said here.
TTC #1 - Nov '14
DS born 10/18
My dr even said one glass a WEEK was fine since all my tests so far came back normal, and I feel fine. I know my body better than anyone else does.
Go back to lurking, or better yet, get to know the people you're attempting to talk to before trying to make us feel like bad parents-to-be..... My kid, my body, my choice.
Caffeine up to 200mg a day- having a latte right now as I am going to be at work late and my energy is waning.
Highlighting my hair
Baths- not crazy hot but nice and toasty
Stairs?? Come on! My office is at the top of three flights!
I had some beer the night before I tested positive (feeling pretty sure I was pregnant then) and I'm sure I'll have a few sips of it before June.
Soft cheeses (this is fine as long as they are pasteurized. I was anal about it the first time around and wish I'd just relaxed)
Picking up my hefty toddler
Using a heating pad (just not directly on my belly)
Aspartame... I don't drink it every day but I do enjoy diet pop here and there and it helps settle my stomach
I did all these things, minus the cheese, the first time around so I'm basically using the (likely flawed) logic that because my daughter is amazing, if I just repeat the same lifestyle, I'm in the clear
One thing I've restrained myself on is hollandaise sauce, even though every time I'm at a breakfasty place I could kill for a whole side serving of it. I love the stuff. Am I being silly?
From the NHS:
Drinking small amounts of alcohol after the first trimester does not appear to be harmful for the unborn baby. However, you should not drink more than one to two units, and then not more than once or twice a week.
That is far less than the mothers on this board are reporting.
eta: wrong source, that quote was not from the NHS, rather the Royal College of Obstetricians Gynecologists similar to ACOG in the US.
TTC #1 - Nov '14
DS born 10/18
i also only eat meat medium rare and am addicted to the seat warmers in my car.
Deli meats
Soft cheeses
Heels
Carrying my 33 pound 3yo
Sleeping on my back
Dear Booze Police,
I've listed below each reference to alcohol in this entire thread. Each line represents the "confession" of one person. If you seriously think you need to come here to throw URLs at us and to accuse us of being selfish and irresponsible we are - please read over the thread again. This is clearly not a collection of women who need to be told to lay of the hooch. <insert mammoth eye roll>
Our "helpless unborn babies" are all just fine thanks. But don't worry, I'll be sure to tell my son, when he's older, that once upon a time a lady swooped in on the internet to try and save him from a life of developmental disorders and FAS because his terrible and selfish mom had a glass of wine, once...oh, and a sip of beer.
Here's the scandalous list of boozey confessions from our group of alchys.
- I wouldn't be opposed to a glass of wine but haven't come across any that really strike my fancy lately.
- sips of wine/beer
- I cook with wine. A lot of wine. Most of the recipes I use, the wine cooks off for a long time like in stews and stuff, but others, I still get a hint of it when I'm eating and it is delish.
- cook with (liberal) wine, and will definitely have the occasional 1/2 glass when I'm in the home stretch
- Have had the occasional glass of wine throughout my pregnancy.
- I cant wait for wine in my third tri....Dr. said 4oz here and there wont hurt anything.
- 1. Small glass of champagne at thanksgiving 2. Small glass of red wine at new Years
- I have had sips of H's here and there after MS passed
- I have had a bit of wine here and there(will mix a tiny bit with ginger ale )
- I'll have a sip of wine if I'm cooking with it or a taste of DH's beer every now and then. We split a mini bottle of champagne last week and made mimosas when we had breakfast for dinner.
- I have had a little wine
- Cooked with wine
- Wine - I've had about a total of a half glass a week since 17 weeks (I'm 20 now)
*sigh* This was one of my favorite threads. I lurk on plenty of threads that I don't necessarily agree with. I might roll my eyes but I genuinely have better things to do with my time than start unwarranted drama on the Internet with a bunch of strangers. Y'know.
Did I maybe side-eye the people who choose to drink? A bit, but its their choice and if they're willing to take the risk and are responsible about it (and yes, I'm positive they've heard the 80 bajillion warnings about excessive drinking and pregnancy) then more power to them.
My point was more that the logic of 'they can do whatever' doesn't wash if they come back and say I can't do x. I don't agree with/wouldn't do a lot of what's on this thread, but this isn't the thread (IMO) to come in and shake a finger. Side-eyeing is totes what I did to those things that stuck out to me to.
TTC #1 - Nov '14
DS born 10/18
Baby #2 Due 3/7/20
This is a thread about things that these women know they're "not supposed to be doing" while pregnant. I assume that all of these women know that drinking during pregnancy is not okay otherwise they would be drinking a lot more than just a sip or two here and there.
I don't think that sipping any kind of alcohol is worth the risk, to be honest and I miss drinking like no other but I can wait to drink until June. Some women might not find eating tuna during pregnancy to be worth the risk, but I do despite knowing it isn't necessarily recommended. I didn't link anything to those drinking alcohol about FAS and they didn't link me anything about the effects of mercury on a fetus.
So to answer your question, it's not out of line. It's just annoying, I think, on a thread that's about things we already know we're not supposed to be doing to be told that we're not supposed to be doing it.
**edited for spelling**
Dr May said: ‘There is no safe level of alcohol to consume while you are pregnant.’
The study was published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence.
TTC #1 - Nov '14
DS born 10/18
Here is a link to the primary source. The information contained within is very different than what was put forth by the Daily Mail (and you).
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-3/159-167.htm
The researchers, including Dr. May, concluded, among other things, "Academic and public health professionals, therefore, need to continue population-and clinic-based studies that will further establish the true prevalence of FAS within subsets of the U. S. population and further define the specific behavioral and medical risk factors for prenatal alcohol damage in off-spring. The greatest challenges will be to develop better diagnostic and categorical criteria and to conduct further studies of the prevalence and characteristics of ARBD and ARND".
FAS research is quite lacking, and for good reason given the population being studied. Please stop shaming mothers for taking a "sip of wine here and there". Particularly if you do not understand the research and/or are not willing to spend the time understanding the research.
eta: Here is another article published by Dr. May. He is finding that FAS rates have increased, but his research is not focus on the amount of alcohol causing disabilities, etc. The opinions he states are his own, and he is entitled to his well-informed opinions in his area of expertise. Other experts disagree..
https://www.nofas.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Epi-of-FASD-in-Rocky-Mtn-Region-City-final-2015.pdf
"Women who give birth to FAS and ARBD or ARND children generally practice frequent and protracted binge drinking, which produces high blood alcohol concentrations. Although a majority of women in many studies reduce their alcohol consumption during pregnancy, mothers of FAS children generally do not."
The focus isn't on having a sip or taste of wine occasionally. In fact, many of his papers focus on prevalence and not the compete avoidance of alcohol of the level of alcohol that causes FAS.
Congratulations! This is your potentially your first experience with the whole "you're a terrible mother and your child is going to hell in a hand basket." Get ready for playgrounds or school drop offs where these AMAZING mothers will put you down for buying store bought for the bake sale or you're snobby for choosing cloth diapers. Or whatever it is you do that they don't do or like.
Take the lesson....don't let it ruin your day. Don't even let it ruin the next five minutes of by our life.
Cheers!
Glad I found the other "wine" thread first today (which is full of supportive, civil women for both sides).
The only thing I'll add is it's not just FAS or no FAS. Yes, science says my baby won't have FAS from a few sips of wine here and there. But what about learning difficulties? Attention difficulties? Executive functioning?
That's why I'm not drinking at all. BUT everyone chooses to take different risks during pregnancy (and life in general). For example, I eat a lot of sugar daily. Other women choose to restrict.
DD born June 2016
Second due August 2020 (team green!)
SaveSave
DD born June 2016
Second due August 2020 (team green!)
My doctor said hot tubs are fine if they are below 102- my parents have one and they keep it at 100. Herbal tea is fine, cold cuts are fine. I don't eat sushi, so I don't really know her thoughts on that. Caffeine is fine in moderation a cup or two (I don't drink coffee anyway).
It's funny because my sister said her doctor said what most of you have said, heat deli meat, no sushi, not green tea, no coffee. Each doctor is different, but there are clearly different thoughts on some things, and the ones that are important every doctor reiterates (high mercury fish for example).
The thing with deli meat and other foods that aren't cooked properly are food poising and getting sick (listeria, for example). No one says stop eating salads because they might be contaminated. Everyone has to use their own common sense. I don't really care about alcohol that much to drink any, but I won't sideye someone for having a small glass or a sip if they're pregnant.
My mom says they never told her all this stuff and me and my sisters came out fine. (She doesn't eat fish though!). My grandma said she drank wine when she was pregnant, because they didn't know any better. My mom and my aunt says they are lucky to be alive (jokingly).
ETA I'm pretty lax on most of these, I eat sushi, med rare meat, eat tuna, cold deli meat, read, Dr Pepper (yum!) except for the alcohol. I just can't and I personally think it's not worth the risk of FAS or anything else. I did have a sip or two with DD but now I look at her and I just can't this pregnancy. (She's fine and perfect and reminds me to knee L going strong)
DD1 born 11/2014
DD2 born 6/2016
Deli sandwiches, hot bath and showers, a Mt. dew or Coke once in a while.... Or maybe twice a weekish lol. Some soft cheese, and lifting a few heavy things. I just say moderation is key