I don't want to start the whole circ debate, but i
f anyone has been through this or has any insight, I'd really appreciate your thoughts.
I'm very anti-circ, and SO is very pro-circ. We've had a few HUGE arguments over this that never end well.We haven't discussed it in a few weeks, but SO brought it up again last night because he now wants to switch from Team Green to finding out at the AS in a couple weeks.
I've heard his arguments and he's heard mine a million times. Neither of us are willing to budge and we're both pretty pissed at each other. From my understanding, it can only be done at birth if both parents consent; however, I do worry that he would try to have it done behind my back later on. I'm also pissed that now our AS, which is supposed to be a wonderful thing that brings us closer together, is now going to just cause a lot of stress and anxiety. Our relationship is already pretty fragile, and I think having a boy would be the final nail in the coffin leading to us splitting up.
We do see a premarital counselor, but he hasn't been much help- he's pro-circ because of his religion (SO and I aren't religious at all), and basically told me to pray it's a girl.
Any thoughts?
Re: SO and I can't agree on circumcision
I am sorry that you are going through this, and imagine this is a difficult time in your relationship. Wishing you peace going forward with your decision.
I see circumcision as the same. That's the man's domain. While you are entitled to your opinion, I feel it should ultimately be the father's choice because he is the one who will teach your son about his body and how it works.
As for your A/S, many couples have one partner find out at the A/S while the other remains surprised. Why not do that? No offense, but it sounds like you're trying to get your way about everything, and you have to pick your battles. It may be your pregnancy, but the child is half his, and he should have some say, too. Learn to meet in the middle, because once that baby is here, it will only get harder. Especially if you have different ideas on how to parent your child!
Parenting is a compromise and you might not always agree, but it's important to feel like you're a team. Addressing that dynamic would be at the top of my list and work on the different opinions later. I personally would be happier conceding than feeling like my partner could potentially do something major without my knowledge.
And as far as circumcision go, I'm of the camp that I left it up to S/O. He is leaning towards it but wants to ask around a bit if we find out tomorrow we are having a boy. I think it becomes a pick your battles and at the moment you are picking every one, which will just cause frustration for everyone. Finding out at the A/S may be helpful as it gives you more time to decide as a couple want the best choice is.
Good luck!
At this hospital I worked at, the mother could sign the circ permit, and if unavailable, the father can sign the circ permit. Not both.
I tend to agree more with trying to agree together, but letting SO have a little more weight because he's the one with the penis. Having worked in a hospital, I've seen botched circs. That turned me towards anti-circ, but my SO feels very strongly that he wants his son to be circed. We have 2 daughters so far, and if we have a son in May, he will be circed. I will, however, make sure that one of my OBs (6 in the group) does that actual procedure, not a medical student or resident...I understand you need to learn, but not on my son. I won't be watching the circ though, and neither will SO. The healing from a circ is actually very quick and simple.most are healed in 5-7 days. Another note: do NOT have your son circed if your family or SO's family have any bleeding conditions/hemophilia/clotting disorders. Ask for your newborn to be tested for those conditions before getting a circumcision.
sorry for the multiple opinions/advice! Good luck on your decision
oh one more thing. In nursing school, they said our area has 50% circ rate In my experience, it is 90%, and some additional people choosing to do a Bris. Still very common practice in my area.
Mama to Three Girls:
Twins born March 2014 at 26 weeks due to preterm labor
and our 37weeker born May 9th, 2016!
So really, I'm 50-50 and so is DH. He's leaving the decision for me to make which is really stressful... I haven't done much research on it but I probably should soon
DH is but doesn't care if our son is. Ultimately, if we did have a disagreement, I would want him to make that decision because he's the one with the same equipment. I'm usually very liberal and all about equality but when it comes to anatomy, I can't begin to understand male anatomy unless I possessed some.
Really, if we did do it, I fully trust my hospital because they're one of the best in our areas.
It sounds like you guys need to seek more/better counseling. Seems like you both are concentrating on this because you have some issues to work through don't want to come to agreement on anything. There are many decisions you'll have to make together for your child, so I urge you to find help sooner then later.
I spent 6 and a half years as an ER nurse, and while it doesn't really make a difference in young men, our incapacitated elderly patients who were uncircumcised, had terrible excoriation of the skin under the foreskin, as well as, to use a lovely urban dictionary term, copious smegma. If I hadn't already been a supporter of circumcision before, that would've been enough for me. I do agree it is a personal decision, and I do not disagree with those who choose not to do it, but for us, it's definitely the answer.
I agree with PPs that you need a new counsellor. As a psychologist myself, one of the things we learn is to leave our beliefs at the door of the office- we're there to help you make the best decision for you, not to make that decision for you. His response is very unprofessional and unhelpful. Also, if your relationship is already rocky before baby's arrival, it's important to get help from a qualified/non-judgemental professional who's not there to take one side or the other, but to help you communicate with each other. You won't always win, neither will he, and you need to start making decisions together about a little one, decisions which can have a huge impact on their life.
Good luck in your decision-making!
https://9davids.blogspot.com/2010/11/50-reasons-to-leave-it-alone.html
1.) It's his.
2.) I've never met a man who wanted "less" penis when he was old enough to care. Men tend to like their penises just the way they are.
5.) Circumcision isn't the majority for newborns anymore. According to the New York Times, the infant circumcision rate is down to 32%. That means 68% of your son's locker room will likely have natural penises. If you circumcise, he will probably ask you why he's different from his buddies.
7.) You wouldn't cut your baby girl's genitals. In fact, it's illegal - even a "nick" is illegal. Male circumcision is a lot more involved than a nick!
9.) It hurts. A lot. Really. Don't believe me? Watch a video. With the sound up, please. If you can't watch the whole thing, can you really ask your newborn to go through it?
11.) Did you know? Infant circumcision rates are less than 10% in the following counties: England, France, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Canada, Mexico, all of South and Central America, Japan, China, Russia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Greece, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Australia and more.
Infant circumcision rates are higher than 10% in the following countries: USA, Israel, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Qatar, Turkey, Jordan, Philippines, Indonesia, Nigeria, Cameroon, Chad, Republic of Congo, Eritrea, and Kenya.
14.) There are over 20,000 nerve endings in the foreskin. That's more than in the female clitoris.
15.) The foreskin protects the head of the penis.
16.) The foreskin provides lubrication during sexual intercourse. Men with natural penises are less likely to use lubrication during sex or masturbation.
17.) No major medical organization on earth recommends routine circumcision of infants.
20.) We don't chop off ears to prevent ear infections. We don't remove baby toenails to prevent fungal infections. We don't cut off body parts anymore when a wound becomes infected. In the very unlikely event your son does develop an infection, we have antibiotics.
25.) Complications of circumcision are NOT rare. Check out this thread on Babycenter.com (a mommy board, not a circumcision website) to read their stories.
28.) Circumcision makes money for doctors. A doctor who performs circumcisions makes an extra $20,000-160,000 per year on the operations. That's why they offer circumcision at hospitals - for cash. They'll ask you if you want your son circumcised multiple times at the hospital: they want the money.
29.) Less than 1% of men with foreskins will ever "need" to be circumcised, just as the vast majority of women will never need a hysterectomy or mastectomy. We don't remove tonsils or fingernails or anything else at birth "in case" it has a problem.
30.) Penile cancer causes 300 deaths a year, almost exclusively in men over the age of 70. Infant circumcision causes over 500 deaths a year worldwide. Circumcision does not prevent penile cancer.
32.) Fathers don't spend time comparing penises with their sons. If your son does notice that his penis is different from Dad's (other than size and hair), you can simply explain that Daddy had an operation when he was a baby. My dad lost half of his ring finger in an accident, but I was never bothered by having all of my fingers.
33.) Your grandfather (or great-grandfather) probably wasn't circumcised, unless you are of Jewish or Muslim descent. It's a relatively new thing in the USA. Abe Lincoln and George Washington had foreskins.
34.) Most circumcised penises have scars. If you've ever seen a circumcised penis, you have probably seen circumcision scars and didn't know what they were. Curious? Click here for pictures (adult eyes please, extremely graphic).
37.) Babies have had the glans (head) of their penis accidentally amputated during circumcision.
38.) Female circumcision was legal in the United States until 1985.
39.) Your health insurance may not cover the procedure. Medicaid does not cover it in 16 states, and many major insurance companies also do not reimburse for the surgery, since it is cosmetic. If your insurance doesn't cover it, it probably also does not cover any complications.
40.) Babies are strapped down on a circumstraint to have the procedure done. That is the most unnatural, terrifying position for a baby, who previously was all curled up and safe inside Mama's body.
46.) Circumcision makes penises smaller. Who wants a smaller penis?
47.) "My partner should make the decision, he has a penis/she looks at penises" is a dumb reason to abdicate responsibility for a decision. You are your baby's parent, penis or not, and you have a responsibility to protect your child from harm. Victims of FGM (aka female circumcision) are the most vocal supporters and perpetrators of the abuse. Call on your inner Mama or Papa-bear and stand up for your baby's rights. Make your partner watch a video with the sound on and convince YOU why they want this done to their precious child.
Perhaps he won't want to shell out hundreds of dollars for it?
Also I am very sorry that you are feeling like if you don't "give in" you will seal the deal into the end of your relationship with the father of your child over just this one thing. I honestly see that as a huge red flag, as in, if you give in now to something you believe in, this won't be the last time big decisions come (and small) and won't make things happy and bright for all the future just because you are willing to compromise your beliefs and values for this one thing right now. I am so sorry, that sounds really really hard. I totally agree with getting a new counselor as soon as you can. Before the A/S would be good.
I have no helpful advice but just sharing that you are definitely not alone in this!
47.) "My partner should make the decision, he has a penis/she looks at
penises" is a dumb reason to abdicate responsibility for a decision.
You are your baby's parent, penis or not, and you have a responsibility
to protect your child from harm
This is a little intense/insulting to members of the board. You're basically saying that anyone who has chosen to circumcise did not protect their baby from harm. This is something all males in mine and my husbands side of the family have done and we feel strongly about having our son circumcised. I don't think that makes me a shitty parent. Also, many posters have said they have turned to their husbands for advice/ the final decision. If I ask my husband how he feels about it and if he strongly feels one way or another it's because he, too, is the child's parent and also has the equipment that we are discussing. I do not know what it is like to have a penis, it makes sense to ask advice from the other parent that does happen to have one.
^^^^^
Taken off of the American Academy of Pediatrics website.
ETA: Oops I apologize. It wasn't you who posted the long list of reasons not to circumsize...but her advice is the only one you deem worthy- so I'll leave my comment.
I clicked the link and the list was an opinion piece from someone's blog. They did not have scholarly articles or resources, just links to other anti-circ organizations and info. I saw one refer to a "study" that was of only 22 penises... and presenting that "evidence".
I don't think she was intentionally calling others bad parents, it was a straight copy and paste from that opinion piece.
It seems to me that you only like her opinion because it supported yours. She didn't say what worked for her, she listed a bunch of anti circ points. No one brought it to a point of debate.
100% It was abrasive and condescending in parts. I think she isn't totally absolved of responsibility, but I do think it wasn't meant to be malicious.
I think below sums up everyones feelings
Since you disagree my advice would be to make a list of pros/cons or different topics and calmly talk through it with your husband. You may have information he is unaware of and he may have insight you never thought of. Yelling facts or feelings won't get anyone anywhere, you need a calm discussion that doesn't need to generate a solution right away. Let your conversation sink in before you talk again about a decision.
Plan your discussion so both of you have time to look up reliable information.
That's just the nerdy way I would handle the situation though, everyone is different. I hope you two can come to a decision