Cry-It-Out at bedtime

tylery · November 2015

My daughter is almost 4 months old. Ever since she was 2 and a half months old, I've been getting her into a sleep routine (bathe. nurse, story, then pat her til she's drowsy). We've been pretty successful since we first started, but every so often she does get extra fussy and can't fall asleep. Just recently though, she's been staying up longer and cries a lot. She will suck her pacifier and doze off then wake herself up screaming. I know she's crying because she doesn't want to be alone and wants to be carried. I've let her cry it out and she'll fall asleep no problem. (Her cries are very mild and it's the kind of cry where she cries then stops to look around to see if someone is coming lol...) I only help her when her cries amplify and she turns red.
Any other momma try the cry it out theory? And if so, do you have people who are against it?

My mom criticizes the hell out of me for letting her cry. And the way I see it, I'm not gonna wake up every night when my daughter is capable to rest.
Also, my mom scolds me for not feeding my daughter in the middle of the night... When my daughter doesn't even wake up to feed in the middle of the night anymore. Ugh. My mom is just a pain!

irohspupil · November 2015

No, I don't let my daughter CIO.

She goes through phases of being really hard to put to sleep. For weeks, LO would go to bed between 7:30-9. In the past two weeks, it's taken until 10:30-12 to get her down because she's going through some sort of growth spurt. She'll whine, spit her pacifier out, etc for a couple hours. I know she's full, so she doesn't need to eat. I just try my best to be patient with her because I know this phase won't last forever.

And if your LO is gaining weight, then I wouldn't worry about waking her to feed her. She will wake up herself if she needs food.

abim717 · November 2015

We do CIO because our son is extremely fussy about everything and usually goes to sleep on his own in 15 minutes or less. We can usually tell that he's tired and it's always after feeding so we know he's not hungry. I've read stuff for and against this method but it's what works for us right now.

KateDerek · November 2015

We don't use CIO much here, but have done it a few times. They were older though. More closer to one for my first and over one with my second. I mean, it's a personal thing for everyone on when and if they want to start. I found it harder to do it to my second child than my first since he carried on WAY more than his brother ever did. But with both of them, CIO worked to some extent and then in a month or two, they got sick or something and started waking again and I just didn't have it in me to CIO all over again. So we don't usually fall back on it even though like I said, I have done it and found success.

The one thing I was going to say was that, especially with my first, we would see a few weeks of waking at night when he learned a new skill. Four months was rolling, six months was crawling, then again when he was pulling up on things. It distrupted his sleep every time. With my younger one, he would wake every night that first year for a bottle around 4 AM so he didn't really sleep through the night until after formula.

marieva · November 2015

We have used CIO as a last resort...and just a few times. He is very good about sleeping on his own at night now but there were some nights he didn't want to be rocked and then when we set him down he would start screaming and crying...then would fall asleep in our arms only to start screaming and crying the second we laid him down. Hubby and I both work EARLY in the morning so one night we ended up letting him cry for a little bit. He fell asleep after about 10-15 minutes and didn't wake until I went in there the next morning to get him ready for the day. A huge misconception is that CIO is leaving a baby to cry hours upon hours but that is not true. It is going in their room to make sure they are ok and the basic needs are met, but sometimes even after all of that, and to save your sanity, you gotta let them be babies and cry a little bit. Not hours, and not too long either. Maybe 15 minutes tops before you go back and check again to make sure everything is good. As far as having people against it, I'm sure I ruffled a few feathers when I mentioned what we did to family. But one thing is that hubby and I promised each other we wouldn't let family come in between how we raised our baby. We are good people and good parents so when people offer advice it's just that--advice and nothing else. We say thanks a lot and either consider it or keep it moving. Anyways, yeah.

tylery · November 2015

Exactly! I don't ever let her cry hours on end. I'll let her cry maybe 5-15 minutes at the most before I try and comfort her back to a calm state. Sometimes she is so hard to soothe though, so my mom thinks I'm ignoring my daughter when really it's my daughter being extra fussy and me not wanting to be the one to do all the work. I just want my daughter to have the ability to self-soothe and slowly get into the habit of resting without crying excessively.
And I always try to brush off other people's opinions on raising my child, but I swear some people can be excessive with their nagging and parenting advice.

mothernorth · November 2015

I do CIO, and am not at all against it. If you've done everything you possibly can for LO just short of bending over completely backwards, let baby cry. Sometimes baby just needs to get it all out. Not bad parenting.

Perfect Sonnet · December 2015

Aren't they still too little for crying it out at this age? I thought that it wasn't until 6-9 months that this became really effective. I wouldn't think they would really learn any lessons or have this be helpful to them at 3-4 months.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem letting an insane toddler cry and get it our of her system. But the baby is just coming out of the "fourth trimester".

mrsb30 · December 2015

Perfect Sonnet said:
Aren't they still too little for crying it out at this age? I thought that it wasn't until 6-9 months that this became really effective. I wouldn't think they would really learn any lessons or have this be helpful to them at 3-4 months.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem letting an insane toddler cry and get it our of her system. But the baby is just coming out of the "fourth trimester".

I completely agree with you. Babies cry for a reason it's their only way of communicating.

hclzmm14 · December 2015

I wouldn't do this until 6 months. I let my first fuss a little but never for more than 5 min and never before 6 months. By then she could get herself in a comfortable position and suck her thumb and was capable of going back to sleep. A 3-4 month old can't do these things typically.

jenniferlove84 · December 2015

No! She is too young to just let her CIO. Babies wake and cry for a reason. Babies do not know how to self soothe at this age. They tend to learn how to closer to 6 months. soothe her and help her go back down.

tylery · December 2015

@Perfect Sonnet @hazeldagarr @jenniferlove84 I just wanted to clarify, I let my daughter FUSS for 5-15 minutes. Because if it's something as little as her spitting out her pacifier or shifting in her sleep, then I think it's acceptable for her to just whine and then fall back asleep instead of me making her self reliant on the pacifier and having to constantly put it back in her mouth (she's able to suck on her hand or fist). I NEVER let her cry uncontrollably without coming to her aide, cause clearly, yes, if she's crying loudly and turning red then I know something is wrong. So I guess I aimed on letting her FUSS-if-out instead of actually CRYING-it-out.

irohspupil · December 2015

tylery said:
@Perfect Sonnet @hazeldagarr @jenniferlove84 I just wanted to clarify, I let my daughter FUSS for 5-15 minutes. Because if it's something as little as her spitting out her pacifier or shifting in her sleep, then I think it's acceptable for her to just whine and then fall back asleep instead of me making her self reliant on the pacifier and having to constantly put it back in her mouth (she's able to suck on her hand or fist). I NEVER let her cry uncontrollably without coming to her aide, cause clearly, yes, if she's crying loudly and turning red then I know something is wrong. So I guess I aimed on letting her FUSS-if-out instead of actually CRYING-it-out.

I do think there's a difference between fuss and cry. I know there is with my LO because she'll "fuss" for her pacifier in the middle of the night (like it fell out or something). But, she cries when she needs me and not the pacifier.

ETA: andplusalso, I try as often as I can to put her down drowsy so she falls asleep without me rocking her. Works maybe 50% of the time. She'll fuss until I put the pacifier in then she's golden.

tylery · December 2015

@micshi yes EXACTLY!! My daughter whines when her pacifier falls out but she'll eventually just forget about it and doze back off... Lol.
And yes, I like to put my daughter down when she's drowsy. Lately she's been dying to cuddle and as much as I love cuddling her, it makes it harder for me to get her to sleep on her own. She was really good about falling asleep on her own in her crib but the last two weeks has been harder. I guess it's because her growth spurt is happening now and she's excited to play and stay up.

Sissibob · December 2015

https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/baby/sleep/how-to-resettle-your-baby/ I found this article really helpful!

Starynightsky24 · December 2015

I would absolutely not let my baby cry or "fuss" for any reason.

There is major brain development going on right now. And No educated professional condones CIO. Even pediatricians (who are not sleep experts FYI) say no CIO till after 6 months.

CarelessDiva89 · December 2015

I'm sorry but this whole post makes me stabby AF! I am a mother of 4 & my almost 2 year old has always been a horrible sleeper. So I get up every night multiple times a night between LO & DS2. This is what I signed up for by having children. To tend to THEIR needs! The whole attitude/mentality about how you're NOT going to wake up during the night is beyond ridiculous IMO. . You should probably listen to your mother.. am I tired? Hell yes but I will put my child's needs before mine especially a 4 month old!

SashaDenn25 · December 2015

There is a difference between crying and fussing yet but at this age they need us. While I don't agree with CIO, your post and the wording make it sound like you just can't be bothered with your LO. I'm not going to wake up when she is capable of rest, and I don't want to be the one doing all the work?? Seriously?! I think maybe you should listen to your mom. At 4 months there's typically a sleep regression as well so might be why she's waking up or a growth spurt. Either one. IMO...CIO at this is age is lazy parenting. They need you right now and self soothing while they may be working on it isn't all the way established yet.

ElleMF728 · December 2015

Expecting a 4 month old to have the ability to self soothe is like expecting a 2 year old to read. Neither skill is a developmentally realistic expectation for the age.

I sometimes have trouble falling asleep at night. As an adult I have the ability to grab a drink, turn on the TV or read a book. A four month old's only option is you. We have to teach children how to soothe by showing them, a child doesn't learn to read by be given a book any more than a baby learns to fall asleep by being placed in a crib. Mom and Dad actually reading to the child is how he or she learns just like Mom or dad helping to soothe baby to sleep with help him learn how to learn how to do it himself.

That doesn't mean you have to rock or bounce LO to sleep every night, you can use different methods that you may find more desirable, we like shush/pat. When babies go through these phases they aren't "testing" you any more than you test your partner by tossing and turning one night if you're feeling out of sorts.

Sbuxtonteaches · December 2015

CarelessDiva89 said:
I'm sorry but this whole post makes me stabby AF! I am a mother of 4 & my almost 2 year old has always been a horrible sleeper. So I get up every night multiple times a night between LO & DS2. This is what I signed up for by having children. To tend to THEIR needs! The whole attitude/mentality about how you're NOT going to wake up during the night is beyond ridiculous IMO. . You should probably listen to your mother.. am I tired? Hell yes but I will put my child's needs before mine especially a 4 month old!

This

J&D2007 · January 2016

IMO, you can't really judge others at all in the CIO debate. Every infant is different. I can tell you that my 4 month old cries every night for up to 15 minutes. Its not lazy parenting and I'm not teaching him a lesson as some of you say. He is not comforted by rocking, shushing, patting, walking, pacifiers, etc etc.. THE only way he sleeps is a period of crying first. He's been changed, nursed, loved, held, read to, rocked, kissed,sang to. Then he IS NOT comforted by me and I have to let him be to calm him down.

buckleyk · January 2016

Sorry- I think 4 months is too young for CIO. Dont get me wrong, I used it at 8 months with my first and it was torture but worked. And I totally suffer through it again if I need to but not this young. I don't think you'll find anyone who would support sleep training before 6 months.

princesslockness · January 2016

J&D2007 said:
IMO, you can't really judge others at all in the CIO debate. Every infant is different. I can tell you that my 4 month old cries every night for up to 15 minutes. Its not lazy parenting and I'm not teaching him a lesson as some of you say. He is not comforted by rocking, shushing, patting, walking, pacifiers, etc etc.. THE only way he sleeps is a period of crying first. He's been changed, nursed, loved, held, read to, rocked, kissed,sang to. Then he IS NOT comforted by me and I have to let him be to calm him down.

^this. My LO can and does manipulate H and I. He cries at the drop of the hat. As soon as he sees we are coming or looking at him he's all smiles and giggles.

Also my pedi told us that if he has been; changed, fed, burped, snuggled, rocked, given a bath, and anything else that can soothe him: we can let him CIO as there isn't anything we can do to calm him and it's good for his lungs to cry every once in a while.

lrichhx05 · January 2016

I doubt your infant is purposely manipulating you. That just sounds ridiculous. Maybe he's crying because he wants you so yeah he stops when he sees you're coming.

J&D2007 · January 2016

lrichhx05 said:
I doubt your infant is purposely manipulating you. That just sounds ridiculous. Maybe he's crying because he wants you so yeah he stops when he sees you're coming.

I'd have to agree. I highly doubt at this age they can be purposely manipulative. But, I agree that I DO have an infant that once he's tired gets fussier if I try to soothe him than if I just lay him down and let him cry himself to sleep for a few minutes.

LittleFox2015 · January 2016

I thought that at 4 months infants havent quite learned I thought that at 4 months infants havent quite learned object permance? That is why cio is best attempted at 6m and older? Every baby is different and it would be harder on me, personally, to listen to my baby cio. To each their own though.

Starynightsky24 · January 2016

Kate08Young said:

J&D2007 said:
IMO, you can't really judge others at all in the CIO debate. Every infant is different. I can tell you that my 4 month old cries every night for up to 15 minutes. Its not lazy parenting and I'm not teaching him a lesson as some of you say. He is not comforted by rocking, shushing, patting, walking, pacifiers, etc etc.. THE only way he sleeps is a period of crying first. He's been changed, nursed, loved, held, read to, rocked, kissed,sang to. Then he IS NOT comforted by me and I have to let him be to calm him down.
^this. My LO can and does manipulate H and I. He cries at the drop of the hat. As soon as he sees we are coming or looking at him he's all smiles and giggles.

Also my pedi told us that if he has been; changed, fed, burped, snuggled, rocked, given a bath, and anything else that can soothe him: we can let him CIO as there isn't anything we can do to calm him and it's good for his lungs to cry every once in a while.

Your LO does not have the capability of manipulation. Look it up. Their brains are absolutely not developed enough to be capable of thinking to do such things.

Your LO could be gassy, teething, over stimulated, or a multitude of other things. Since their brains are not developed yo know how to handle these things they cry.

I will hold and attend to smooth my baby as long as she needs me. Especially if she is crying... Bc I am her only for of comfort. Not lay her down and leave her alone and scared.

And if your pedi really did say that... I would find a new one. That's so old school and WRONG.

princesslockness · January 2016

Starynightsky24 said:

Kate08Young said:

J&D2007 said:
IMO, you can't really judge others at all in the CIO debate. Every infant is different. I can tell you that my 4 month old cries every night for up to 15 minutes. Its not lazy parenting and I'm not teaching him a lesson as some of you say. He is not comforted by rocking, shushing, patting, walking, pacifiers, etc etc.. THE only way he sleeps is a period of crying first. He's been changed, nursed, loved, held, read to, rocked, kissed,sang to. Then he IS NOT comforted by me and I have to let him be to calm him down.
^this. My LO can and does manipulate H and I. He cries at the drop of the hat. As soon as he sees we are coming or looking at him he's all smiles and giggles.

Also my pedi told us that if he has been; changed, fed, burped, snuggled, rocked, given a bath, and anything else that can soothe him: we can let him CIO as there isn't anything we can do to calm him and it's good for his lungs to cry every once in a while.
Your LO does not have the capability of manipulation. Look it up. Their brains are absolutely not developed enough to be capable of thinking to do such things.

Your LO could be gassy, teething, over stimulated, or a multitude of other things. Since their brains are not developed yo know how to handle these things they cry.

I will hold and attend to smooth my baby as long as she needs me. Especially if she is crying... Bc I am her only for of comfort. Not lay her down and leave her alone and scared.

And if your pedi really did say that... I would find a new one. That's so old school and WRONG.

You have your parenting style and preferences and while they work for you, they do not have to work for everyone else.
Benchmarks are not hard and fast for each individual child. They are approximate, my LO is already sitting up in his own for several minutes at a time. That isn't a skill TYPICALLY mastered until after 6 months. Mine hit it a bit early.
So please keep the judge-y attitude to yourself.

Starynightsky24 · January 2016

Kate08Young said:

Starynightsky24 said:

Kate08Young said:

J&D2007 said:
IMO, you can't really judge others at all in the CIO debate. Every infant is different. I can tell you that my 4 month old cries every night for up to 15 minutes. Its not lazy parenting and I'm not teaching him a lesson as some of you say. He is not comforted by rocking, shushing, patting, walking, pacifiers, etc etc.. THE only way he sleeps is a period of crying first. He's been changed, nursed, loved, held, read to, rocked, kissed,sang to. Then he IS NOT comforted by me and I have to let him be to calm him down.
^this. My LO can and does manipulate H and I. He cries at the drop of the hat. As soon as he sees we are coming or looking at him he's all smiles and giggles.

Also my pedi told us that if he has been; changed, fed, burped, snuggled, rocked, given a bath, and anything else that can soothe him: we can let him CIO as there isn't anything we can do to calm him and it's good for his lungs to cry every once in a while.
Your LO does not have the capability of manipulation. Look it up. Their brains are absolutely not developed enough to be capable of thinking to do such things.

Your LO could be gassy, teething, over stimulated, or a multitude of other things. Since their brains are not developed yo know how to handle these things they cry.

I will hold and attend to smooth my baby as long as she needs me. Especially if she is crying... Bc I am her only for of comfort. Not lay her down and leave her alone and scared.

And if your pedi really did say that... I would find a new one. That's so old school and WRONG.
You have your parenting style and preferences and while they work for you, they do not have to work for everyone else.
Benchmarks are not hard and fast for each individual child. They are approximate, my LO is already sitting up in his own for several minutes at a time. That isn't a skill TYPICALLY mastered until after 6 months. Mine hit it a bit early.
So please keep the judge-y attitude to yourself.

While what you're saying is true for some things this is not one of them.

I very highly doubt that any 4 month old can do a skill (manipulation) that is TYPICALLY done at 18 MONTHS.

I wish parents would really do their research before doing such things to their infants. It's so sad.

princesslockness · January 2016

Manipulation is using any skill, whether emotional or not, to achieve desired results. Not a need, but a want. My son does not need held 24/7. When I am talking to him, playing with him, or watching him from across the room; he cries and I start towards him, start to pick him up, and he starts laughing and smiling that is manipulation. Especially when I can then walk away and he is still laughing.

Starynightsky24 · January 2016

Kate08Young said:
Manipulation is using any skill, whether emotional or not, to achieve desired results. Not a need, but a want. My son does not need held 24/7. When I am talking to him, playing with him, or watching him from across the room; he cries and I start towards him, start to pick him up, and he starts laughing and smiling that is manipulation. Especially when I can then walk away and he is still laughing.

Regardless of what you believe your child does. CIO is a choice many parents make without knowing all the facts. Please be educated about what you are doing and who is telling you to do it. That's all.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/baby-sleep/cry-it-out/

https://www.journalsleep.org/articles/291212.pdf

rjanice · January 2016

To each his own. No judgments from here.

Some nights I rock baby boy and sing to him til he passes out then into the crib. Some nights I put him down in the crib drowsy then if he starts crying let him go for a few minutes before I pick him back up and start all over. Some nights I let him sleep in my bed.

He's ever changing and I plan to use whatever method gets us both the maximum amount of sleep! Even if it means using a different one each night. Usually baby boy sleeps from 830p-630a so I'm doing something right.

tylery · January 2016

@CarelessDiva89 @SashaDenn25 @ElleMF728
Hi ladies. I do find your judgement towards me a bit offensive... Yes, maybe my wording sounded like I'm a "lazy parent" or like I didn't know what I "signed up for". So let me correct myself.
I let my daughter FUSS. Of course if she is crying and is on the verge of being totally upset, then I will NOT just simply leave her alone (that is ludicrous). I love my daughter to pieces. But I see no problem in letting her fuss for a bit.
When I do all that I can possibly think of, such as hugging, patting, rubbing, massaging, laying beside her to snuggle her, whispering in a nice voice to her, trying to nurse her again, giving her a pacifier and holding her close, etc. and she just doesn't find any of those to her liking, then sometimes she just needs to get all her fussiness out for 5-15 minutes and she's back to normal. It's almost like she is venting to me and after that she's ready to calm back down.

I've had my share of waking up countless times in the middle of the night to feed her and soothe her. Of course I understand as a mother, I am 200% committed to my daughter! I wouldn't put myself before her and I never have.

My daughter was an awesome sleeper by 2 and a half months old, and that's because we got into a routine and she knew how to stay calm at night and get her full night's rest. So once these nights of fussiness started up at 4 months, whether it's growth spurt or whatever reason, i knew my daughter needed to just get that extra energy out. And even on those occasions that I let her fuss, I was right there by her crib and talking or putting my hand on her so she knew I was there. I wasn't just doing my own thing, ignoring my daughter.

So while I understand I asked for an opinion on cry it out methods and if any moms use it, I didn't ask to be judged as a "lazy mom" because I'm far from lazy when it comes to my daughter.

sgolden02 · January 2016

Interesting you say this but my Pedi encouraged us to start CIO at 4 months. Now at 5 months, we haven't had to because for the most part LO is a good sleeper. I wouldn't be so quick to make a statement as such when you have no medical training of infants.

sgolden02 · January 2016

Hilarious considering my own Pedi suggested it at 4 months.

kettlekitten · January 2016

@tylery your LO is a good sleeper because she's a good sleeper. Anyone with more than one kid will tell you that. Your routines no doubt helped but I can tell you from experience that for some kids no amount of routine or calmness will make them a good sleeper. I've done nothing different with my two kids and my first was an horrific sleeper, my second has so far been excellent. There was nothing that could be done with DD. It would drive me insane when people who knew nothing about her told me she just needed a good routine... Like I hadn't thought of that....

Knottie1459358632 · January 2016

Yes @kettlekitten! I agree. Some people get lucky with a good sleeper. My boy is 5.5 months and from one month old (when he transitioned to his crib) we've done EVERY single thing recommended to create good sleep habits (laying down awake but drowsy, swaddle, noise machine, bed time routine, humidifier, not rocked/nursed to sleep.. ect) and no matter what we do we cant make it more than 2 hours of sleep at night without getting up. We tried everything, He just isn't a good sleeper. So if you have a good sleeper count your blessings

melissajuelich · January 2016

Not judging what so ever

I'll give you an example of what happened last night.
DD sleeps from about 7:30pm to 6:00am she started crying at 12:30am so I went over to her and picked her up changed her nappy and gave her a feed however she was asleep the whole time! She then woke again at 2:30am so I saw that she had her eyes closed so I just waited a few minutes and she stopped crying and went back to sleep. She could have been going through an REM stage in her sleep.
I understand what you are trying to say by your posts - I don't think you're sounding lazy. All babies are different, there is no such thing as a text book baby! and you know your bubba the best so you do what feels right.

psherman42wwsa · January 2016

kettlekitten said:

@tylery your LO is a good sleeper because she's a good sleeper. Anyone with more than one kid will tell you that. Your routines no doubt helped but I can tell you from experience that for some kids no amount of routine or calmness will make them a good sleeper. I've done nothing different with my two kids and my first was an horrific sleeper, my second has so far been excellent. There was nothing that could be done with DD. It would drive me insane when people who knew nothing about her told me she just needed a good routine... Like I hadn't thought of that....

ksimon23 said:

Yes @kettlekitten! I agree. Some people get lucky with a good sleeper. My boy is 5.5 months and from one month old (when he transitioned to his crib) we've done EVERY single thing recommended to create good sleep habits (laying down awake but drowsy, swaddle, noise machine, bed time routine, humidifier, not rocked/nursed to sleep.. ect) and no matter what we do we cant make it more than 2 hours of sleep at night without getting up. We tried everything, He just isn't a good sleeper. So if you have a good sleeper count your blessings

YES YES and YES! I've done every suggestion I've ever heard of, read several books and my LO is still a terrible sleeper. Sometimes people that have good sleepers think their child is sleeping through the night because of this or that but really its because that's just how their child is. When the child is ready to sleep through the night, they will.

bgrant172 · January 2016

Sometimes these days it feels like I do nothing but obsess over, think and talk about my sons sleep. I've read books and book reviews, I've scoured blogs and articles and was so overwhelmed and confused by all of the contradicting advice and passionate opinions.
After agonizing over it for months, during which time his sleep went from bad to terrible (needing the boob to sleep constantly even when he wasnt hungry, we are talking 6 or more times a night) we have ended up letting him cry and checking on him over the past week (Ferber-ish) and it's been really working well. Granted he is a little older (5.5 months) and had shown that he could self sooth, he just preferred not too, but what it came down to for us was that giving him a little room to figure out how to really sleep was more loving than constant intervention and mixed messages.
Anyways in all my reading I found two articles that I think might be helpful here. The first because it's funny and frighteningly accurate and the second because maybe it will give some insight into what you are seeing with your daughter.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/i-read-all-the-baby-sleep-advice-books_b_3143253.html

https://askmoxie.org/blog/2011/01/tension-decreasers.html

Knottie1459358632 · January 2016

Haha! That huffpost one is spot on! There's so much conflicting advice it's insane

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