New publication on alcohol consumption during pregnancy

thaisac1 · October 2015

Came across this article which was published this week: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2015/10/13/peds.2015-3113.full.pdf+html

The article summarizes the effects of alcohol intake during pregnancy, and the clinical features of fetal alcohol spectrum disorders.

This report does emphasize that there are known adverse effects of moderate to heavy/ binge drinking (binge = 4 or more alcoholic drinks per occasion) on the fetus, but also mentions that the effects of low-level consumption of alcohol are unknown. Since doing a clinical trial of alcohol consumption to identify at which threshold alcohol is harmful would be unethical, the American Academy of Pediatrics published a report today ( https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/AAP-Says-No-Amount-of-Alcohol-Should-be-Considered-Safe-During-Pregnancy.aspx ) emphasizing that no amount of alcohol is guaranteed to be safe, and is recommending that all pregnant women completely abstain from alcohol, regardless of trimester.

I personally know women who had an occasional drink during pregnancy, and we hear that French pregnant women drink wine regularly. I had pretty much decided to have a flute of champagne to toast the new year, but after this report I decided not to. My OB made the same recommendation. I know there are many anecdotal cases of friends and family who drank a little bit, but I find it difficult to go against such a heavy recommendation by the Academy…

Interested to hear your thoughts (healthy discussion, please!)

iamrandom · October 2015

After everything it took to get me to this point in my pregnancy there is zero chance I'll be imbibing while pregnant. I know lots of women continue to drink here and there, particularly in the second and third trimester, but I'm erring on the side of caution.

On a more personal note, I have an older relative who suffers the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome. I never met his mother--she died before I was born--but my understanding is that she was a consistent, but not heavy drinker. When he was diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome the extended family was apparently surprised because they didn't view his mother as being an alcoholic (though it seems clear that she must have been). He's in his 60s now and he's never been a fully functioning person. It's very sad. That story was a common cautionary tale when I was young and, yeah, it totally worked.

mojomama6 · October 2015

I'm not going to lie, I got bored of the tone of this article and only skimmed most of it. I dislike the American "all or nothing" attitude toward basically everything pregnancy, especially since our outcomes do not support the attitude. I generally follow British guidelines for myself, which seem to be based more on science and less on morality or litigation. Specifically when dealing with FAS, there have been volumes written on "The French Paradox", or the fact that either Americans are far more fragile than the French, Greeks, Italians, or Spanish... Or something other than pure fact is driving the crusade against alcohol during pregnancy. For example, many American studies that claim fetal harm with even light to moderate drinking do not distinguish between one drink per day and seven drinks in one sitting while abstaining the other six days of the week. Obviously one day of binging is quite a different animal than a single drink with dinner. Or they average drinking over the whole pregnancy, so that (specific case here) a woman who drank a gallon of wine and a half case of beer every weekend during her first trimester, but abstained completely during the second and third, appears to have been a more responsible drinker than the woman who drinks a half to one glass of wine daily throughout the pregnancy. In this case, the first woman has a child severely affected, and the second was just "lucky" that hers is ok.
I obviously don't see anything wrong with an individual woman choosing to abstain just in case. I myself was a teetotaler during my first two successful pregnancies. But it does make me sad? Frustrated? Just irked? When I perceive that fear tactics have been used to get her to choose that, which is how I feel about most American recommendations.

JadaBlue · October 2015

I highly recommend Emily Oster's "Expecting Better." She is not a doctor, but rather analyzes available studies. According to her, there is good data on light drinking from other countries. My recollection is that she focused on info out of Australia, which showed no ill effects from drinking a tiny amount (less than a serving) during the first trimester and perhaps not more than a serving a day later in pregnancy. (I read this a couple of years ago, so my memory could be off). As with all things it's difficult to prove something is "completely safe," but according to her there is evidence to indicate a lack of bad outcomes from light drinking. I barely drink while not pregnant and it's never appealed to me while pregnant, but I question the absolutist American stance--I guess it feels related to the general desire to police pregnant women's bodies.

thaisac1 · October 2015

I'll admit that I have not personally searched for international articles or looked at British guidelines - will check out. Although I'm with PP - it's been such a journey for me to get pregnant to begin with, then to get to this point, that I think I would be afraid to drink even if I read it's ok...

NachosAndPeaches · October 2015

I didn't actually read the article (too damn tired), but my gut tells me that the academy has to have such a strong stance because of two reasons. One: a lot of Americans are dumb (American here admitting this lol). Like really dumb. And they can't interpret that a glass once or twice a week logically is "okay" but a few tequila shots every night are not. But it's hard to believe people are really that dumb which leads me to the much more likely scenario number two which is: everyone is America sues everyone. Look at the zofran case! Can you imagine if the academy (and therefore individual doctors) wavered a tiny bit on their stance, what the ramifications would be? I can just imagine someone suing their doctor for their first trimester miscarriage because their doctor said they could have a drink once a week. Etc.

loveymay · October 2015

I think just because some women drink occasionally during pregnancy and had healthy babies does not mean that is the case every time. I surely miss my wine and margaritas, but going without alcohol for 9 months is not the end of the world. And since there is nothing definitive on how small amounts of alcohol can affect unborn babies, I'd rather be safe than sorry. It'll just be that much more satisfying when I have that first glass of wine!

RoseShadow873 · October 2015

It's just not worth the risk to me to drink at all. I don't care about alcohol that much! Other people must like it a lot more than I do.

elasticheart13 · October 2015

In Denmark we have the same guidelines and its recommended that women avoid alcohol altogether during pregnancy. A recent study showed more women drink during pregnancy in Denmark and it worries them as it is impossible to test the effect of tiny amounts of alcohol, specially the long term effects of it which affects learning abilities later in life and such. For that reason I think it's better to be safe than sorry. I too was planning on having a flute on New Year's Eve but I'll be skipping it just to be careful

thaisac1 · October 2015

NachosAndPeaches said:

I didn't actually read the article (too damn tired), but my gut tells me that the academy has to have such a strong stance because of two reasons. One: a lot of Americans are dumb (American here admitting this lol). Like really dumb. And they can't interpret that a glass once or twice a week logically is "okay" but a few tequila shots every night are not. But it's hard to believe people are really that dumb which leads me to the much more likely scenario number two which is: everyone is America sues everyone. Look at the zofran case! Can you imagine if the academy (and therefore individual doctors) wavered a tiny bit on their stance, what the ramifications would be? I can just imagine someone suing their doctor for their first trimester miscarriage because their doctor said they could have a drink once a week. Etc.

I don't know whether or not these are the true reasons, but I will tell you that Obstetricians have the highest premiums for malpractice insurance! Just to give you an example, here in Ontario I pay $4500/ year for malpractice insurance as a cardiologist. I've been told the premium for Obstetricians is $80,000/year!!!! (I cannot confirm these are the correct numbers but this is what I have been told. Although Ontario covers some of the cost for them as long as they don't get sued, as this is totally impractical). This just goes to show that if any little thing happens to baby or during delivery, people are inclined to sue. This is such a delicate time and people are always looking for someone else to blame…. So your rationale may be partially correct.

thaisac1 · October 2015

loveymay said:

I think just because some women drink occasionally during pregnancy and had healthy babies does not mean that is the case every time. I surely miss my wine and margaritas, but going without alcohol for 9 months is not the end of the world. And since there is nothing definitive on how small amounts of alcohol can affect unborn babies, I'd rather be safe than sorry. It'll just be that much more satisfying when I have that first glass of wine!

I'm with you on that one. My personal feeling (not science based, just instinct based) is that there are so many critical milestones happening each day as this baby develops, and there are so many things that can go wrong already… Then why would I be selfish (because I miss my wine!

) and introduce a potential hazardous substance to this already very delicate situation? This is why I chose to follow the academy's recommendation and abstain completely - but I am looking forward to a cold flute of champagne as soon as the baby is out!!

pinottoparenthood · October 2015

I'm not judging anyone for a small glass here and there, but to me, if you feel like you *have* to have wine every single night, that's not normal. Don't get me wrong, I miss being able to have a nice big glass (or two) every now and then... but I don't *need* it. Again, I had a couple glasses in my first pregnancy and I'm not crazy over it, but overall I just don't understand... why take the risk when you don't have to? You have the rest of your life to drink after your baby is born.

Having said that, this study is pretty much worthless or at least just reiterating everything we already knew. Drinking a lot of alcohol during pregnancy is harmful... drinking a little may or may not be harmful, they can't determine. I've heard that 2049283098x before.

imrachellea · October 2015

loveymay said:

I think just because some women drink occasionally during pregnancy and had healthy babies does not mean that is the case every time. I surely miss my wine and margaritas, but going without alcohol for 9 months is not the end of the world. And since there is nothing definitive on how small amounts of alcohol can affect unborn babies, I'd rather be safe than sorry. It'll just be that much more satisfying when I have that first glass of wine!

This is me too. I'm not a big drinker to begin with (we'll have a bottle of wine in the house maybe once or twice a month, we may get a drink out once or twice a month, usually have a couple drinks when we go to a party or something where most people are drinking, DH tends to have a case of beer around a little more frequently during football season but I don't drink beer). So for me to go without alcohol for 9 months its really NBD, especially when it could be harmful. That being said, DH thought it was a good idea to buy my FAVORITE bottle of Riesling for our party this past weekend, rather than another brand I don't care much for, and when all my girl friends at the party were saying they had the occasional glass when pregnant with their kids, I was definitely tempted. However, DH said he didn't think it was a good idea, so I didn't. The bottle is still sitting in my fridge with a decent amount left (only a few wine drinkers at our party and it was a double bottle from the bulk store), but I'm having no issue not drinking it. This is probably the one rule I won't bend. In the past few weeks I have had soft cheese, a huge Jersey Mikes sub, and sushi, all of which I will have several more times over the course of this pregnancy. I just make sure to check labels, go to reputable restaurants, and keep up to date with food recalls and warnings.

DougalMcG · October 2015

So disappointed. I thought I was going to open this and it was going to say drink all the wines! Womp womp. Still going to drink a glass very occasionally during dinner and not feel bad about it.

aa79606 · October 2015

My mom texted me last night to say that she saw something on the news about a new study saying that no alcohol is safe during pregnancy. Honestly I was a bit annoyed that she felt it necessary to "warn" me, considering we know we are more than likely living with the affects of FASD with my 4yo stepson (whose mother is known to prefer whole bottles of vodka, not single glasses if wine)... The many issues stemming from diminished cognitive abilities are very frustrating, and very real. So I replied to her that millions of European women were likely to disagree with the study, but it wasn't really relevant to me because I haven't had a drop since before my BFP.

kaylap58 · October 2015

I think a lot of it depends on culture, too. I live in New Orleans, and almost every mom I know still had a glass of wine here or there throughout pregnancy. Everyone drinks with every meal here. I have had one glass of champagne since my pregnancy, and I think I will continue to do that for special occasions.

thaisac1 · October 2015

pinottoparenthood said:
I'm not judging anyone for a small glass here and there, but to me, if you feel like you *have* to have wine every single night, that's not normal. Don't get me wrong, I miss being able to have a nice big glass (or two) every now and then... but I don't *need* it. Again, I had a couple glasses in my first pregnancy and I'm not crazy over it, but overall I just don't understand... why take the risk when you don't have to? You have the rest of your life to drink after your baby is born.

Having said that, this study is pretty much worthless or at least just reiterating everything we already knew. Drinking a lot of alcohol during pregnancy is harmful... drinking a little may or may not be harmful, they can't determine. I've heard that 2049283098x before.

Right, this is the same thing the ASOG has been recommending forever. But now the Pediatric academy is also strongly reinforcing the recommendation.

kcbarbo78 · October 2015

I was advised to stop drinking by my RE when I started IVF, and for the most part I haven't missed nor craved my occasional glasses of wine. Because we were going away recently for a celebratory weekend, I did a wine tasting at a local vineyard because I wanted to see how I would handle drinking a little bit of wine if I wanted to have a glass with dinner (some pregnant women say it doesn't taste right to them, or that it gives them a terrible headache, so I figured I would do a little test drive). While the totality of what I consumed was probably less than a glass (I took a sip from most of them and dumped the rest), it wasn't such a blissful, transcendent experience that I felt it was worth even the smallest, most remote possibility of harming the baby I had gone through so much torment (and so many needles!) to conceive, especially since it has been a difficult and complicated pregnancy. (At one point, we were given only 50/50 odds of making it past the first trimester, which was a nightmare.) I don't judge women who have an occasional glass of wine, as my European relatives often do without any discernible harm to their babies, but I personally would rather abstain. I always thought I would drink a glass occasionally during my pregnancy - that was always my plan, at least - so this is an about-face for me. It really just came down to what I felt comfortable doing and how much enjoyment I derived from having a libation during my pregnancy (as it turns out, it just wasn't much). As for this odd notion that over the rainbow in the magical, uber-sophisticated, mythical land of "Europe" women drink wine every night with dinner while pregnant, nosh on unpasteurized brie and ride roller coasters with impunity, a lot of that is just exaggeration. Not every country in Europe is the same when it comes to how women behave in pregnancy, nor are all women in any country universally making the same choices (yes, there ARE some French women who choose not to drink while expecting). I've traveled extensively throughout both Eastern and Western Europe, including the UK and Scandinavia, and have lived abroad twice for extended periods - once in the UK and once in Italy - and I assure you there are plenty of women who choose to be more cautious. The attitude toward alcohol during pregnancy is more relaxed in some places, but that's not universally true. While I agree that doctors recommend an abundance of caution in part because a lot of people are too stupid to understand the difference between "moderate" alcohol consumption and binge drinking, from my own experiences I assure you that we Americans are no more stupid than our European (or South American, or Asian, for that matter) counterparts. Until there's more data to support the notion that light drinking is okay in the second and third trimesters (and it *probably* is okay), it doesn't harm or cost me anything to abstain from alcohol, so that's my choice. Again, it's a personal choice. Hopefully we'll all be lifting a toast (literally and figuratively) to our healthy babies in the Spring

DougalMcG · October 2015

This is what's sticks out to me: From the coauthor "The only guarantee of having no effects from alcohol is no prenatal exposure". I feel like this is common sense kind of in the same way that "the only guarantee of not getting into a car accident is to never get in a car". Also, in terms of the above post I don't think anyone was saying that women in Europe drink every night, but the attitude is definitely different. I wouldn't even think twice about having glass of wine with my meal at a pub in England, but here I definitely feel like there a certain stigma attached to it. Not that I care too much.

thaisac1 · October 2015

kcbarbo78 said:
I was advised to stop drinking by my RE when I started IVF, and for the most part I haven't missed nor craved my occasional glasses of wine. Because we were going away recently for a celebratory weekend, I did a wine tasting at a local vineyard because I wanted to see how I would handle drinking a little bit of wine if I wanted to have a glass with dinner (some pregnant women say it doesn't taste right to them, or that it gives them a terrible headache, so I figured I would do a little test drive). While the totality of what I consumed was probably less than a glass (I took a sip from most of them and dumped the rest), it wasn't such a blissful, transcendent experience that I felt it was worth even the smallest, most remote possibility of harming the baby I had gone through so much torment (and so many needles!) to conceive, especially since it has been a difficult and complicated pregnancy. (At one point, we were given only 50/50 odds of making it past the first trimester, which was a nightmare.) I don't judge women who have an occasional glass of wine, as my European relatives often do without any discernible harm to their babies, but I personally would rather abstain. I always thought I would drink a glass occasionally during my pregnancy - that was always my plan, at least - so this is an about-face for me. It really just came down to what I felt comfortable doing and how much enjoyment I derived from having a libation during my pregnancy (as it turns out, it just wasn't much). As for this odd notion that over the rainbow in the magical, uber-sophisticated, mythical land of "Europe" women drink wine every night with dinner while pregnant, nosh on unpasteurized brie and ride roller coasters with impunity, a lot of that is just exaggeration. Not every country in Europe is the same when it comes to how women behave in pregnancy, nor are all women in any country universally making the same choices (yes, there ARE some French women who choose not to drink while expecting). I've traveled extensively throughout both Eastern and Western Europe, including the UK and Scandinavia, and have lived abroad twice for extended periods - once in the UK and once in Italy - and I assure you there are plenty of women who choose to be more cautious. The attitude toward alcohol during pregnancy is more relaxed in some places, but that's not universally true. While I agree that doctors recommend an abundance of caution in part because a lot of people are too stupid to understand the difference between "moderate" alcohol consumption and binge drinking, from my own experiences I assure you that we Americans are no more stupid than our European (or South American, or Asian, for that matter) counterparts. Until there's more data to support the notion that light drinking is okay in the second and third trimesters (and it *probably* is okay), it doesn't harm or cost me anything to abstain from alcohol, so that's my choice. Again, it's a personal choice. Hopefully we'll all be lifting a toast (literally and figuratively) to our healthy babies in the Spring

@kcbarbo78 , it looks like you and I share very similar conception and pregnancy stories. We should connect!

Achieverjo · October 2015

I saw the highlights for this on the news this morning. Before this came out I was thinking about making an occasional white wine spritzer... But I think I'm just going to stick to stealing a sip of my partner's beer when he orders something unique or seasonal.. Like the shock top pumpkin beer. It tasted like pumpkin pie heaven.

I miss beer.

bunnywahl · October 2015

Isn't it amazing to think that our (generational) grandmothers smoked when pregnant?? Now THAT is disgusting. Glad my parents are okay haha.

iamrandom · October 2015

DougalMcG said:

This is what's sticks out to me: From the coauthor "The only guarantee of having no effects from alcohol is no prenatal exposure". I feel like this is common sense kind of in the same way that "the only guarantee of not getting into a car accident is to never get in a car".

I would say that the difference is it's likely difficult (if not impossible) for most people to give up traveling by car, but giving up alcohol for nine months isn't such a hardship. Of course there are risks for everything, and we all have to weigh these risks, but I guess I fail to see the upside of alcohol consumption during pregnancy. Zofran, of course, I understand taking even if some OB providers advise that there may be risks. An antidepressant like Zoloft (which according to recent meta-analysis is thought to be safe during pregnancy, but not definitively proven) makes complete sense to me. The mental health of the mother is very important in not only sustaining the pregnancy, but in being equipped to care for a newborn. Sushi (and other food restrictions) have a reasonable argument if one were to weigh the benefits of nutrient rich food against the risk of foodborne illness. But I truly--not snarkily--don't understand the argument for alcohol consumption.

I don't judge a woman who chooses to have the occasional glass while pregnant, and I hope my post doesn't come across that way. Unless someone is taking egregious risks with their child's safety, it's not for me to say what's right or wrong. I've just noticed a tide shift particularly among middle-class and upper-middle-class women regarding drinking during pregnancy and I'm genuinely wondering where it comes from?

imrachellea · October 2015

bunnywahl said:

Isn't it amazing to think that our (generational) grandmothers smoked when pregnant?? Now THAT is disgusting. Glad my parents are okay haha.

I was at Target last week and I saw a very classy pregnant woman (*sarcasm*...) who had to have been 7 or 8 months in, lighting up. I seriously wanted to slap the cigarette from her hand. I get it if you are only on in the pregnancy and trying to quit (I have never smoked so I don't personally have experience with the addiction but obviously I know its a really tough thing), but she has obviously been pumping her body (and BABY) full of smoke and nicotine for 7+ months. There is just no excuse for that kind of ignorance.

iamrandom · October 2015

Quickly just wanted to add (lest I come across as a puritanical asshole) that I really am open to the idea that alcohol has an upside for some pregnant women. I've never been much of a drinker (I didn't even drink on my 21st birthday. huh, I actually might be sort of a puritanical asshole), so there might be social benefits to some pregnant women that simply wouldn't occur to me. Like, maybe the ritual of a glass of wine is something that feels important in the context of social connections. Or maybe the tannins in red wine are viewed as a benefit outweighing the potential risks of acetaldehyde. Or maybe it's just wanting to feel like your body is still your own in some small way, like you don't have to drastically change just because you're pregnant.

I struggle with that last one sometimes. My autonomy is important to me and it can feel really oppressive when suddenly people feel very comfortable commenting on my body, my choices simply because I'm pregnant. I don't want to feel like nothing more than a human incubator and food source, you know what I mean? I'm still a person.

RoseShadow873 · October 2015

iamrandom, Maybe it comes from people's distrust of science, government, and medical recommendations. This is happening at the same time that many people are rejecting vaccines like it is a conspiracy and doing other unconventional things. People think they know better than whoever makes the recommendations and are making their own recommendations. I think it's great that people think for themselves and I have been known to commonly challenge authority, but the consensus can't always be wrong. Doing the opposite of what you're told isn't always wise. Maybe those studies about wine being healthy have something to do with it too.

NachosAndPeaches · October 2015

@iamrandom I personally agree that it's not a big deal to sacrifice it since I'm not much of a drinker (I do love drinking sometimes but we just hardly ever go out and I'm not a wine with dinner kinda gal). But I think that people are looking at it from a perspective of a small amount won't hurt so they're not assessing a risk, and I agree with that as well. I know no amount can be proven safe, but that's simply because it's unethical to experiment on this. But from collected data, other countries have shown that a drink here or there doesn't make a difference (someone mentioned the Australia study above). We do a lot of things that don't serve a purpose and aren't good for us, like eating candy or drinking soda. Those are empty calories with no nutrition, yet we still consume them. I think it's the same concept with alcohol, if you live in a culture where most educated women have a glass a few nights a week while pregnant and nobody's baby has FAS as a result of such light drinking, they don't see and assess a risk present

kimey1 · October 2015

First of all, thank you @thaisac1 for bringing this to our attention. I love that our board has people that work in healthcare!

Sometimes when you see certain people you get a sense that something is not right with them. Seeing the photo of a child with FAS made it clear to me that those senses are based on truth that we may not be scientifically aware of. Rank 4 & 5 of the Lip-Philtrum Guide were a bit surprising.

I agree that each country has different standards in terms of do's and don'ts. I think in the U.S. it's particularly important for doctors to be ultra safe when giving recommendations because this country holds SUCH a letigious environment compared to other countries.

I agree with OP that it is up to your discretion on what you choose to do. Having read this study, I choose to abstain from my glass a wine a month. I'll probably have a tiny sip of DH's when he's having some really delicious wine. Though honestly, even wine hasn't been appetizing lately.

Personally, the most puzzling part about alcohol consumption is this: SO MANY people drink normally within the first 4 weeks of pregnancy because we're not aware we're pregnant. Heck, I know a few friends that drank plenty at parties around the time when they conceived. I'd be interested in the effects of drinking in the first 4 weeks since conception versus drinking in the 2nd or 3rd trimester.

myhoff13 · October 2015

Achieverjo said:
I saw the highlights for this on the news this morning. Before this came out I was thinking about making an occasional white wine spritzer... But I think I'm just going to stick to stealing a sip of my partner's beer when he orders something unique or seasonal.. Like the shock top pumpkin beer. It tasted like pumpkin pie heaven.

I miss beer.

I agree, I've had a sip here and there of my husbands beer. He is always trying new beers and I couldn't resist trying some. I do mean a sip, not a serving. Just like everything else, proceed with caution!

AEG84 · October 2015

NachosAndPeaches said:

@iamrandom I personally agree that it's not a big deal to sacrifice it since I'm not much of a drinker (I do love drinking sometimes but we just hardly ever go out and I'm not a wine with dinner kinda gal). But I think that people are looking at it from a perspective of a small amount won't hurt so they're not assessing a risk, and I agree with that as well. I know no amount can be proven safe, but that's simply because it's unethical to experiment on this. But from collected data, other countries have shown that a drink here or there doesn't make a difference (someone mentioned the Australia study above). We do a lot of things that don't serve a purpose and aren't good for us, like eating candy or drinking soda. Those are empty calories with no nutrition, yet we still consume them. I think it's the same concept with alcohol, if you live in a culture where most educated women have a glass a few nights a week while pregnant and nobody's baby has FAS as a result of such light drinking, they don't see and assess a risk present

This. As others have commented, many of us are ignoring other recommendations about deli meat, sushi, etc. While I don't plan to drink on a regular basis, I won't feel guilty about having a few sips (literally...a few sips) here and there. It's relaxing, and it's part of enjoying some social situations for me. That said, I tried to have a few sips at a friend's birthday party on Saturday and it just made me sick, so it might be a while before I try that again.

gingercatNJ · October 2015

imrachellea said:
I was at Target last week and I saw a very classy pregnant woman (*sarcasm*...) who had to have been 7 or 8 months in, lighting up. I seriously wanted to slap the cigarette from her hand. I get it if you are only on in the pregnancy and trying to quit (I have never smoked so I don't personally have experience with the addiction but obviously I know its a really tough thing), but she has obviously been pumping her body (and BABY) full of smoke and nicotine for 7+ months. There is just no excuse for that kind of ignorance.

A former friend of mine not only smoked while pregnant, but did so behind her husband's back.

She claimed her doctor said light smoking was less dangerous than the stress of quitting. Mmmmkay.

gingercatNJ · October 2015

It's really funny. Before I got pregnant, I assumed I would have a glass of wine once every week or so. I've skimmed a number of studies and of course lots of commentary, and don't believe that a single drink here and there will harm a baby.

Now that I'm here, though, I have no interest. Not because I think he's going to get FAS because I had a glass of malbec, but I feel like drinking while he's growing inside me is like putting booze in his bottle. (They did THAT for centuries, and the human race survived, but that doesn't mean I'M going to do it!)

I'm reserving the option to have a flute of champagne or a couple ounces of wine if someone is sharing something amazing--my husband's boss occasionally breaks out a bottle of Dom Perignon or a wine she's had aging for a couple decades--but otherwise I feel no inclination to imbibe during my pregnancy.

It's a personal choice, and I certainly won't tell someone else they are wrong for having one here and there. It just doesn't sit right with me, for me.

DougalMcG · October 2015

iamrandom said:

DougalMcG said:

This is what's sticks out to me: From the coauthor "The only guarantee of having no effects from alcohol is no prenatal exposure". I feel like this is common sense kind of in the same way that "the only guarantee of not getting into a car accident is to never get in a car".

I would say that the difference is it's likely difficult (if not impossible) for most people to give up traveling by car, but giving up alcohol for nine months isn't such a hardship. Of course there are risks for everything, and we all have to weigh these risks, but I guess I fail to see the upside of alcohol consumption during pregnancy. Zofran, of course, I understand taking even if some OB providers advise that there may be risks. An antidepressant like Zoloft (which according to recent meta-analysis is thought to be safe during pregnancy, but not definitively proven) makes complete sense to me. The mental health of the mother is very important in not only sustaining the pregnancy, but in being equipped to care for a newborn. Sushi (and other food restrictions) have a reasonable argument if one were to weigh the benefits of nutrient rich food against the risk of foodborne illness. But I truly--not snarkily--don't understand the argument for alcohol consumption.

I don't judge a woman who chooses to have the occasional glass while pregnant, and I hope my post doesn't come across that way. Unless someone is taking egregious risks with their child's safety, it's not for me to say what's right or wrong. I've just noticed a tide shift particularly among middle-class and upper-middle-class women regarding drinking during pregnancy and I'm genuinely wondering where it comes from?

Well, there could be a mental health argument for wine too. I mean, maybe nobody else's toddler drives them to drink, but mine certainly does. (I'm kidding) (kind of). But seriously, for me I guess it's mostly social. Having a glass of wine is just something you do when you go out to dinner with friends and family. And although that only happens maybe once every few months, the data just isn't conclusive enough for me to stop that tradition for 9+ months (+ because of course there is no level of alcohol in breast milk that is considered safe for a baby either. So if you're nursing, it could be more like a year and 9 months. Or more. Or less.)

AmadorRose · October 2015

@kimey1 there actually isn't much conclusive research on this that I could find. I didn't find out I was pregnant until almost 6 weeks, and just a few days prior I was pretty wasted - like, stumbling through a parking lot to get to our hotel room. I was SO afraid that I had damaged my angel baby that I made myself sick for several days. Everything I found stated that while the baby's nutrition is coming from the yolk sack rather than the placenta, the permeability is less so the larger alcohol molecules can't get through. In the first few weeks, LO is actually just a ball of cells so I'm not sure if there would be any damage.

kimey1 · October 2015

@AmadorRose Yup. I'm pretty sure I had a few drunken nights during my first 4weeks too. It must have some effect. Uh well. Maybe docs will figure it out in another decade or two.

AmadorRose · October 2015

Fun fact: women of low socioeconomic status are more likely to have children with FAS than women of higher SES who drink the same amount throughout pregnancy. Also, studies show that women in countries like France and Ireland, who are advised to continue drinking in moderation, have less chance of having a newborn with FAS. Clearly there is more contributing here than just alcohol intake.

ETA: cited from the Journal of Population Therapeutics and Clinical Pharmacology and oxfordjournals.org

mojomama6 · October 2015

@AmadorRose One of the factors almost certainly at play here is that low SES women are far more likely to have other things stacked against them/their babies: chronic poor nutrition or outright malnutrition; untreated or undertreated underlying health problems; inadequate or no prenatal care; prenatal smoking; and that's just off the top of my head, recalling various studies. When one looks at concurrent prenatal problems, it seems less and less likely that FAS is actually all about the alcohol - rather, it's a confluence of poor prenatal behavior/habits/care, wherein alcohol is the deciding factor as to whether a baby is born with an actual defect, or just at a serious disadvantage.

K&Elizabeth · October 2015

mojomama6 said:
@AmadorRose One of the factors almost certainly at play here is that low SES women are far more likely to have other things stacked against them/their babies: chronic poor nutrition or outright malnutrition; untreated or undertreated underlying health problems; inadequate or no prenatal care; prenatal smoking; and that's just off the top of my head, recalling various studies. When one looks at concurrent prenatal problems, it seems less and less likely that FAS is actually all about the alcohol - rather, it's a confluence of poor prenatal behavior/habits/care, wherein alcohol is the deciding factor as to whether a baby is born with an actual defect, or just at a serious disadvantage.

During my masters capstone project, we researched the likelihood of having a child with a disability in low ses and high ses families. One of the largest contributing factors to cognitive function later in childhood was the amount of cognitive stimulation during infancy. Children from low ses families had a higher likelihood of having a disability and the lower the income level, the lower the amount of cognitive stimulation the child received. All of the factors you mentioned were definite players as well, but moral of the story... Interact with your baby!

thaisac1 · October 2015

gingercatNJ said:
It's really funny. Before I got pregnant, I assumed I would have a glass of wine once every week or so. I've skimmed a number of studies and of course lots of commentary, and don't believe that a single drink here and there will harm a baby.

Now that I'm here, though, I have no interest. Not because I think he's going to get FAS because I had a glass of malbec, but I feel like drinking while he's growing inside me is like putting booze in his bottle. (They did THAT for centuries, and the human race survived, but that doesn't mean I'M going to do it!)

I'm reserving the option to have a flute of champagne or a couple ounces of wine if someone is sharing something amazing--my husband's boss occasionally breaks out a bottle of Dom Perignon or a wine she's had aging for a couple decades--but otherwise I feel no inclination to imbibe during my pregnancy.

It's a personal choice, and I certainly won't tell someone else they are wrong for having one here and there. It just doesn't sit right with me, for me.

I'm the same way, I always though I would have a wine here and there , but then when I actually got pregnant I got fearful and guilty so never drank.
But now that you mention Dom Pérignon.... Hmmmm.... I'm gonna have a bottle ready for the moment this baby comes out!!!!

gingercatNJ · October 2015

thaisac1 said:
I'm the same way, I always though I would have a wine here and there , but then when I actually got pregnant I got fearful and guilty so never drank. But now that you mention Don Pérignon.... Hmmmm.... I'm gonna have a bottle ready for the moment this baby comes out!!!!

Oh yes. I couldn't bear to shell out for Dom, but there is so going to be a bottle of Veuve and a big plate of sushi when my little guy arrives!

mojomama6 · October 2015

kyleec89 said:

mojomama6 said:
@AmadorRose One of the factors almost certainly at play here is that low SES women are far more likely to have other things stacked against them/their babies: chronic poor nutrition or outright malnutrition; untreated or undertreated underlying health problems; inadequate or no prenatal care; prenatal smoking; and that's just off the top of my head, recalling various studies. When one looks at concurrent prenatal problems, it seems less and less likely that FAS is actually all about the alcohol - rather, it's a confluence of poor prenatal behavior/habits/care, wherein alcohol is the deciding factor as to whether a baby is born with an actual defect, or just at a serious disadvantage.
During my masters capstone project, we researched the likelihood of having a child with a disability in low ses and high ses families. One of the largest contributing factors to cognitive function later in childhood was the amount of cognitive stimulation during infancy. Children from low ses families had a higher likelihood of having a disability and the lower the income level, the lower the amount of cognitive stimulation the child received. All of the factors you mentioned were definite players as well, but moral of the story... Interact with your baby!

Fascinating, and I've course I've read such research before, but never in the context of FAS! Part if why FAS is considered such a tragedy is that the cognitive impairment is generally intractable- the quality of therapy doesn't matter, unlike in other cognitive disorders. Are you saying that specifically in the case of FAS, some of the damage could be mitigated by interacting with the infant?

Want a personalized experience?

New publication on alcohol consumption during pregnancy

Re: New publication on alcohol consumption during pregnancy

Choose Another Board

Search Boards