Forced retraction of foreskin

shupertj09 · September 2015

I want to start by saying, this post is not intended to start a debate. I'm not asking opinions regarding circumsion, we have already made the fully informed decision to keep our son intact (through research, discussions with my OB, and our pediatrician).

I am very concerned however about forced retraction during my hospital stay after delivery. I was reading about proper care of an intact penis when I came across several horror stories about forced retraction by medical professionals.

After I delivered DD she was with us about 97% of the time in our room however, she did go to the nursery for checkups/testing. I am sure if our son gets a dirty diaper in the nursery a nurse will change him...which is why I am concerned.

So moms of intact boys, how do you prevent forced retraction? Any suggestions?

MamaFroFro · September 2015

Oh I have never heard of this being an issue. I can't believe you have to worry about it

Our son is not circumcised and I've never had anyone try to forcibly retract his foreskin. The hospital we delivered in did not have a nursery so he was with us the entire stay. Do you have that as an option or do they make baby go to the nursery? Also I'm wondering if this is more of any older baby worry as it would seem absolutely absurd to try and retract a baby's foreskin.

NoelBird · September 2015

Are you or your husband allowed to accompany the baby for the testing? We were allowed to be present for everything so ds was with one of us 100% of the time. I don't know about about forced retraction but isn't it extremely painful and frowned upon? I remember being told by the doctor to never do this at home.

rachrobertson · September 2015

That sounds horrible. I am pro circumcision, but I think they should honor whatever your wishes are as long as you aren't harming your child. I can't believe that is a worry parents have to think about. I would ask if you can accompany him for his tests and if not, make it very clear to them that you want him left intact.

Miss Lilac · September 2015

Can't you or your husband just accompany your baby 100% of the time.

Latina211508 · September 2015

We never had an issue with my son and he was with me 24/7 in the hospital. We never had a dr/pediatrician do this. My son cleans himself and he has never had an issue. You can make it clear when your son arrives that they will not do anything of that sort etc.

SoSirius · September 2015

Our son was with us in the room or my husband went with him everywhere. He was in our room all night and my husband did the diaper changes. That has to be an archaic practice but I would keep the baby with you to be sure.

MississippiCatfish · September 2015

Don't send your kid to the nursery. If you do, tell them to bring him back to you for diaper changes. Put a sticker on the diaper that says "only my mom should change me."

I will say, it's not uncommon to forgo circumcision these days. You will always hear horror stories, but medical professionals who work with infants on a regular basis should know this. I am an RN who has never worked with infants, and I was like, "duh."

shupertj09 · September 2015

Thanks ladies, I love the sticker idea and will ask about DH staying with baby the whole time. I felt like it just wasn't an option with DD...a couple of times I even had to walked to the nursery and specifically ask if I could take her back to the room (every time they took her I asked them to please bring her right back).

Hopefully they won't have to take him to the nursery and if they do, they let DH go. Otherwise I'll be sure to remind them and I am definitely doing the sticker thing. Thanks so much ladies!

DaisyTortilla · September 2015

That is terrible, why would they do that to a baby? I really hope you or DH can accompany the baby so you can be sure he is okay.

BabyHope2013 · September 2015

We did choose to circumsize our son when he was born. There was only a nursery for NICU babies so we only left us when he went for his hearing test the entire time we are in the hospital. However, we had to sign paperwork for whether or not we wanted him circumsized. They would not have gone against our wishes. You might want to check with your hospital if there is paperwork for this kind of thing. If you didn't sign the paperwork for it to be done and it was---that would be a lawsuit against the hospital. It is considered to be a surgical procedure in the state we live in. They also begin prepping paperwork for a baby's medical record while you are in labor--perhaps you could ask your nurse for your wishes to also be noted in their file as soon as they are born.

Miss Lilac · September 2015

Where I live circumcision isn't even offered anymore. You have to take your baby to a specific doctor to have it done and pay out of pocket as most insurance companies no longer cover it.

I think the sticker idea is great! That said, H, my doula and my midwife have been told that the baby is not to leave our supervision for anything that isn't major medical intervention. Write your birth plan and put your wishes in there, they can't force you to let them take your baby away unsupervised for routine testing. I know I'll be watching mine like a hawk.

jcjohnson0216 · September 2015

The reason doctors do that is to be able to perform a "medically necessary" circumcision. That way they get bank. Have heard of this way too many times. A good friend of mine signed paperwork that she did not want circumcision...doctor pulled back the foreskin (he was fine after birth) then told her it was medically necessary and he would likely get infection if they did not circumcise. Scary.

inomniaparatus · September 2015

Miss Lilac said:

Where I live circumcision isn't even offered anymore. You have to take your baby to a specific doctor to have it done and pay out of pocket as most insurance companies no longer cover it. I think the sticker idea is great! That said, H, my doula and my midwife have been told that the baby is not to leave our supervision for anything that isn't major medical intervention. Write your birth plan and put your wishes in there, they can't force you to let them take your baby away unsupervised for routine testing. I know I'll be watching mine like a hawk.

Are you in the US?

I only saw an uncircumcised one once. I dated a guy from Italy and I remember being so scared of getting to that point in our relationship because I had never seen one before and wasn't sure how it'd be different. My friends had never seen one either. I know it sounds silly, but that is a big factor into my decision. It's so rarely seen that I don't want him to feel self-conscious or get made fun of in the locker room or anything.

Shatzegirl · September 2015

We didn't have our son circumcised and there wasn't forced retraction at the hospital. He was in our room the whole time, though. We changed all his diapers and we went with him for a bilirubin test. I think making it very clear in your birth plan and to the hospital staff that you don't want that done is a good idea and the sticker idea. Can't you just have him in the room with you, too? Or are you wanting him in the nursery? I'm wishing you the best!

Miss Lilac · September 2015

inomniaparatus said:

Miss Lilac said:

Where I live circumcision isn't even offered anymore. You have to take your baby to a specific doctor to have it done and pay out of pocket as most insurance companies no longer cover it.

I think the sticker idea is great! That said, H, my doula and my midwife have been told that the baby is not to leave our supervision for anything that isn't major medical intervention. Write your birth plan and put your wishes in there, they can't force you to let them take your baby away unsupervised for routine testing. I know I'll be watching mine like a hawk.

Are you in the US?

I only saw an uncircumcised one once. I dated a guy from Italy and I remember being so scared of getting to that point in our relationship because I had never seen one before and wasn't sure how it'd be different. My friends had never seen one either. I know it sounds silly, but that is a big factor into my decision. It's so rarely seen that I don't want him to feel self-conscious or get made fun of in the locker room or anything.

----- quote fail

Canada. I'm in the same boat actually. H is circumcised and I don't have any experience with it. We've just done our research and talked about our feelings on it and based our decision on that. Circumcision rates are drastically declining in Canada, the pamphlets we were given say less than 45% of all Canadian men are circumcised and reports in our province are at 10% and declining. In fact, most doctors here won't even do it anymore.

pbtoast · September 2015

inomniaparatus said:

Miss Lilac said:

Where I live circumcision isn't even offered anymore. You have to take your baby to a specific doctor to have it done and pay out of pocket as most insurance companies no longer cover it. I think the sticker idea is great! That said, H, my doula and my midwife have been told that the baby is not to leave our supervision for anything that isn't major medical intervention. Write your birth plan and put your wishes in there, they can't force you to let them take your baby away unsupervised for routine testing. I know I'll be watching mine like a hawk.

Are you in the US?

I only saw an uncircumcised one once. I dated a guy from Italy and I remember being so scared of getting to that point in our relationship because I had never seen one before and wasn't sure how it'd be different. My friends had never seen one either. I know it sounds silly, but that is a big factor into my decision. It's so rarely seen that I don't want him to feel self-conscious or get made fun of in the locker room or anything.

FWIW, I think it's different now than 30-ish years ago when most of our peers were born. My brother is 30 and my mom said having him circumcised was pretty much a no-brainer because it seemed EVERYONE had it done (we were just talking last night about whether I will have my LO circumcised- this isn't a typical topic of conversation, haha). I just did a quick Google search and found one source citing that the circumcision rate in 2006 was 56.1% in the United States. There are definitely legitimate reasons for having it done (I'm currently on the fence for my LO), but I think "looking different in the locker room" is becoming outdated.

inomniaparatus · September 2015

Miss Lilac said:

Miss Lilac said:

Where I live circumcision isn't even offered anymore. You have to take your baby to a specific doctor to have it done and pay out of pocket as most insurance companies no longer cover it. I think the sticker idea is great! That said, H, my doula and my midwife have been told that the baby is not to leave our supervision for anything that isn't major medical intervention. Write your birth plan and put your wishes in there, they can't force you to let them take your baby away unsupervised for routine testing. I know I'll be watching mine like a hawk.

Are you in the US?

I only saw an uncircumcised one once. I dated a guy from Italy and I remember being so scared of getting to that point in our relationship because I had never seen one before and wasn't sure how it'd be different. My friends had never seen one either. I know it sounds silly, but that is a big factor into my decision. It's so rarely seen that I don't want him to feel self-conscious or get made fun of in the locker room or anything.
----- quote fail Canada. I'm in the same boat actually. H is circumcised and I don't have any experience with it. We've just done our research and talked about our feelings on it and based our decision on that. Circumcision rates are drastically declining in Canada, the pamphlets we were given say less than 45% of all Canadian men are circumcised and reports in our province are at 10% and declining. In fact, most doctors here won't even do it anymore.

That's interesting. It's funny that the pendulum will probably swing the other way in some years where being circumcised is out of the norm. But, a lot of places we'll probably settle down in will have a significant Jewish population so it may not where I live.

It's totally a personal choice. I haven't even had an explicit convo with DH about it. I just assumed we would. I'm literally texting right now to confirm lol.

Miss Lilac · September 2015

inomniaparatus said:

Miss Lilac said:

inomniaparatus said:

Miss Lilac said:

Where I live circumcision isn't even offered anymore. You have to take your baby to a specific doctor to have it done and pay out of pocket as most insurance companies no longer cover it.

I think the sticker idea is great! That said, H, my doula and my midwife have been told that the baby is not to leave our supervision for anything that isn't major medical intervention. Write your birth plan and put your wishes in there, they can't force you to let them take your baby away unsupervised for routine testing. I know I'll be watching mine like a hawk.

Are you in the US?

I only saw an uncircumcised one once. I dated a guy from Italy and I remember being so scared of getting to that point in our relationship because I had never seen one before and wasn't sure how it'd be different. My friends had never seen one either. I know it sounds silly, but that is a big factor into my decision. It's so rarely seen that I don't want him to feel self-conscious or get made fun of in the locker room or anything.
----- quote fail

Canada. I'm in the same boat actually. H is circumcised and I don't have any experience with it. We've just done our research and talked about our feelings on it and based our decision on that. Circumcision rates are drastically declining in Canada, the pamphlets we were given say less than 45% of all Canadian men are circumcised and reports in our province are at 10% and declining. In fact, most doctors here won't even do it anymore.

That's interesting. It's funny that the pendulum will probably swing the other way in some years where being circumcised is out of the norm. But, a lot of places we'll probably settle down in will have a significant Jewish population so it may not where I live.

It's totally a personal choice. I haven't even had an explicit convo with DH about it. I just assumed we would. I'm literally texting right now to confirm lol.

Good to talk about! I really didn't want it done and H was indifferent.

pbtoast · September 2015

@inomniaparatus, Yeah I didn't necessarily think about living in a predominantly Jewish area. I guess that would be one exception in terms of "looking different." Definitely a good conversation to have! My SO immediately said that he would like it to be done, but I told him to slow his roll while we look at the pros and cons. Haha.

willamina28 · September 2015

We chose not to circumcise our DS (he is 11 months now) I never had this come up as an issue. Unless you mean if they have a blow out diaper? In that case occasionally some poop gets in there and you have to clean it out, and that means you have to pull back the foreskin. Is that what you mean? I can't think of another reason why they would do that.

It is also possible they need to check it out while they are doing initial tests? I've heard blockages can happen.

inomniaparatus · September 2015

pbtoast said:

@inomniaparatus, Yeah I didn't necessarily think about living in a predominantly Jewish area. I guess that would be one exception in terms of "looking different." Definitely a good conversation to have! My SO immediately said that he would like it to be done, but I told him to slow his roll while we look at the pros and cons. Haha.

I mean I'm not a practicing Jew (I'm half and was raised Catholic- also not practicing) but I will probably settle down in LI or NJ - where it will be a mix of Jews/Italians/Irish-- and it's the norm around here.

But, yes, 100% worth reading into, instead of just following the norm.

DrillSergeantCat · September 2015

g8trkim · September 2015

I can't imagine forced retraction being an issue anywhere anymore. Isn't the circ/uncirc of new babies like 50/50 now? I say have your SO accompany baby if he leaves the room just for your piece of mind. The sticker idea is a good one too.

MississippiCatfish · September 2015

jcjohnson0216 said:
The reason doctors do that is to be able to perform a "medically necessary" circumcision. That way they get bank. Have heard of this way too many times. A good friend of mine signed paperwork that she did not want circumcision...doctor pulled back the foreskin (he was fine after birth) then told her it was medically necessary and he would likely get infection if they did not circumcise. Scary.

I'm sorry, but this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. No physician would "make bank" from a circumcision.

Monkeybutt80 · September 2015

MississippiCatfish said:

The reason doctors do that is to be able to perform a "medically necessary" circumcision. That way they get bank. Have heard of this way too many times. A good friend of mine signed paperwork that she did not want circumcision...doctor pulled back the foreskin (he was fine after birth) then told her it was medically necessary and he would likely get infection if they did not circumcise. Scary.
I'm sorry, but this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. No physician would "make bank" from a circumcision.

Yep. I agree. The medical malpractice suit would not be worth "getting bank" on a circumcision. Even if the dr survives the suit, the increase in the malpractice insurance from the claim would not be worth the price they get paid on performing circumcision, not to mention potential disciplinary actions by the Medical Board.

ETA: fix error

meg+on+the+DL · September 2015

So as far as not seeing them often, it's actually common for Hispanic or Spanish men to be uncircumcised. It's not a norm in their cultures. I only found that out when I met my husband. And the stigma that it's "dirty" and "unsanitary" is a bit asinine! They are just as clean as a circumcised one. It's all about how you teach your boys to clean themselves. And that's where DH gets to step up!

meg+on+the+DL · September 2015

@DrillSergeantCat That picture seriously cracked me up! Even had DH laughing!

JLaszlo00 · September 2015

Thanks for bringing this up! I have been worried about the same thing except for babysitters and day cares. If we have a boy we won't circumcise but our whole family will need some education on how to clean and not retract.

shupertj09 · September 2015

Full disclosure: before we started researching, we had no idea you weren't suppose to retract an intact penis for cleaning. My mom and my sister who are both RNs also didn't realize this (neither work with children)...so that combined with reading those stories really concerned me.

Several sites I found compared forced retraction to your nail being ripped off. Plus it could cause scar tissue which could make it necessary for a circumcision later on. So we are going to be extra vigilant.

Scornelius · September 2015

It's well known that circumcision is one of the most profitable procedures a doctor can do. I'm not going to say about doctors intentionally causing harm to justify doing it, but it is undeniably lucrative.

strlitemiss · September 2015

I'm sitting here laughing at the money making comments my son saw 3 doctors during his hospital stay and nobody asked about what we were doing with his penis, other then when ask if us if we were giving him the vit K shot because it was a requirement to circ.

You can write don't retract my foreskin his diapers in case they have to take him away from you guys for some reason.

MamaFroFro · September 2015

FWIW my son is 5 and we have never had to forcibly retract, not even for a diaper cleaning. That's scary that someone would actually take it upon themselves to make that decision even if it's out of ignorance. I'm glad no one ever did that to our son.

AdventureMama · September 2015

With the number of boys not being circumcised growing and growing, I'd be really surprised if those who routinely do infant care don't know not to do that.

g8trkim · September 2015

MississippiCatfish said:

The reason doctors do that is to be able to perform a "medically necessary" circumcision. That way they get bank. Have heard of this way too many times. A good friend of mine signed paperwork that she did not want circumcision...doctor pulled back the foreskin (he was fine after birth) then told her it was medically necessary and he would likely get infection if they did not circumcise. Scary.
I'm sorry, but this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. No physician would "make bank" from a circumcision.

I was thinking this too. A circ is hundreds of dollars and most of that wouldn't go to the doctor anyway.

bigred226 · September 2015

I work with young kids and heard of a 3 year old whose preschool teacher retracted his foreskin when he was toilet training (who knows why). It led to infection, trauma around toilet training, and may require circumcision. I agree with all of you though; generally, people who work with babies and young children should know this.

purpletulip · September 2015

Yikes, it never occurred to me that this was an issue! And my oldest son is 6. My OB actually thanked us for not circumcizing because she hates doing them and our pediatrician never even mentioned it.
I agree with PP that since its already the norm to not be circ'd in many other countries and the circ rate is declining rapidly in the U.S. that people are getting used to it and know to not forcibly retract. I honestly don't even know how exactly one would do it ...

oxfordlanding · September 2015

Just a thought, if you're considering circumcision, find just one single man or boy who is uncircumcised and present all your reasons for doing it. See what he says about your reasons. If you're not prepared to do even that much research then maybe you should leave it up to your son to decide if he wants it done. it's his body and his penis. Shouldn't he get a say? If he wants to he can get it done later. But you can't undo it.

g8trkim · September 2015

oxfordlanding said:

Just a thought, if you're considering circumcision, find just one single man or boy who is uncircumcised and present all your reasons for doing it. See what he says about your reasons. If you're not prepared to do even that much research then maybe you should leave it up to your son to decide if he wants it done. it's his body and his penis. Shouldn't he get a say? If he wants to he can get it done later. But you can't undo it.

I totally get what you're saying, but I can't see anyone in their right mind doing it as an adult unless medically necessary. I think it's incredibly painful when you're older, isn't it?

Shatzegirl · September 2015

@g8trkim so, if it's incredibly painful for an adult, how is it any different for a baby? I'm assuming it'd be incredibly painful no matter what age it's done. It's still the same penis with just as many nerve endings. I'm not trying to be rude or start a debate, I just wanted to point that out.

Edit: wording and spelling error

SoSirius · September 2015

@oxfordlanding I personally know someone who had to get it as an adult and would definitely choose to get their son circumsized. Just depends on who you ask. Not a very scientific way to decide, IMO.

@Shatzegirl, everything I've read lately says babies feel pain similarly to adults (not quite the same though) but maybe people think if they can't remember the pain, that makes it better? Just a thought.

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