This Maine this has been very interesting to follow, I was curious to see if it came up here! Another point I would be interested in hearing people opinion on: why did the parents feel like they needed to make this such a public discussion? Yes, the owner went on FB and is clearly not the most even-keeled person. However, it's not like she called these people out by name. And, seeing as they were not from the area the restaurant was located in, they could have hit the road and had a nutsy story to tell from vacation. But they chose to open themselves up to public opinion. Yes, I probably wouldn't enjoy someone yelling at my child (but as an aside, my three year old would not be traumatized from it, he's three, he won't remember and can be distracted at the mere mention of a strawberry milkshake when upset), but I would not feel the need to write an op-ed in a national publication with my side of the story. I think crappy restaurant service should be handled the old fashioned way, vote with your feet and make sure you warn friends (via conversation, not yelp, not FB) against.
I don't think they ever anticipated that a FB review would lead to this.
This. All they did was a Facebook review which was probably sent to a local TV station or newspaper and then the couple was contacted and decided to talk. I don't blame them for spreading their story.
Even according to the mother's side of the story, they had a long wait to be seated (30 min), and a long wait for their food (40 min). She says the child was being fussy prior to their food arriving due to the wait. She then asserts that the owner asked them to leave (albeit rudely, by giving them boxes and raising her voice at the husband to remove the child or leave). They continued to eat their meal before the owner slammed her hands down and yelled at them from behind the counter. That's not to say that I agree with the way the situation was handled, because I don't. The owner certainly has handled the situation poorly. It's clear, however, that the parents were not entirely in the right, either. The fussing had probably been going on for more than just a few minutes if they were waiting over an hour combined for their food, and the parents are forthcoming with the fact that they made no effort to remove the child (it was raining, and perhaps the bathroom was too small). She also said that they ignored an initial request to leave (rude or not, she admits that they were told to go, and instead continued to eat). So while I don't agree with the owner's actions at all, I also don't agree with how the parents handled the situation.
Even according to the mother's side of the story, they had a long wait to be seated (30 min), and a long wait for their food (40 min). She says the child was being fussy prior to their food arriving due to the wait. She then asserts that the owner asked them to leave (albeit rudely, by giving them boxes and raising her voice at the husband to remove the child or leave). They continued to eat their meal before the owner slammed her hands down and yelled at them from behind the counter. That's not to say that I agree with the way the situation was handled, because I don't. The owner certainly has handled the situation poorly. It's clear, however, that the parents were not entirely in the right, either. The fussing had probably been going on for more than just a few minutes if they were waiting over an hour combined for their food, and the parents are forthcoming with the fact that they made no effort to remove the child (it was raining, and perhaps the bathroom was too small). She also said that they ignored an initial request to leave (rude or not, she admits that they were told to go, and instead continued to eat). So while I don't agree with the owner's actions at all, I also don't agree with how the parents handled the situation.
They were on vacation and it was raining outside. Where were they supposed to go? Why the hell should paying patrons be forced to up and leave? Especially when being asked in such an ignorant manner. Because their child is crying-BOOM- get up and leave right now? Sometimes you can't just up and leave.
FTM, so I know that I know nothing. In reference to this incident, I think the owner sounds batty, out of line, and based on her poor command of the English language in her FB post, fairly uneducated. That said, I don't think the mom needs to get TOO pearl-clutchy about it. I'm sure the incident bothered mom a lot more than it bothered baby. And lets be honest, ain't nobody want to hear your baby "fuss" at whatever volume for over an hour. Doesn't justify owner losing her sht, but even the most sympathetic strangers don't actually WANT to listen to your kid cry, they just possess the social graces to restrain themselves from saying it.
I was wishing I could scream at a baby to shut up on a flight yesterday. The flight was ~4 hours from boarding to deplaning. There was a dad traveling alone with 3 children under ~5. The youngest, a boy, riding as a lap child was about 16 months. He screamed for 80% of the flight. Over three hours for you math majors. He did not "wear himself out". This kid has lungs for days. He just screamed and screamed and did the cry with no tears. The older two, girls of about ~5 and 3.5 also behaved miserably the entire time. They stood backwards on the seat shrieking and carrying on, fighting loudly about who got to sit by the window and the state of openness of the shade. They must have pressed the flight attendant call button 6x as they kept jamming all the buttons in the overhead panel. I was seven rows behind them, but could hear every word they said (yelled). I didn't notice the father reprimand them in any way the entire time, although in fairness, had he, I likely wouldn't have heard because normal speaking voices don't carry that distance.
I had a couple of thoughts. 1) if it had been a mom, she would have gotten nothing but glares, but since it was dad, I felt he received more sympathy than irritation, although clearly everyone in coach was SUPER annoyed at the noisy group. 2) i am SO HOPEFUL that as a parent I will be able to manage my children more appropriately. I understand that with the youngest, there isn't much to be done; certainly the options for redirecting attention/letting him walk around on an airplane are limited. But for heaven's sake, that 5 year old should know better than to stand on a seat and scream. Get a plan dad! Have some snacks or activities or something!
tl:dr, I'm going to be the MEANEST PARENT EVER because poorly behaved kids make me crazy. This poor child will be spending his life in timeout.
If people don't want to hear children fuss then YOU should stay home. Kids go out. They cry. It's life. I can guarantee you'll all experience it and you wouldn't like someone telling your 21 MONTH OLD to shut the hell up.
FTM, so I know that I know nothing. In reference to this incident, I think the owner sounds batty, out of line, and based on her poor command of the English language in her FB post, fairly uneducated. That said, I don't think the mom needs to get TOO pearl-clutchy about it. I'm sure the incident bothered mom a lot more than it bothered baby. And lets be honest, ain't nobody want to hear your baby "fuss" at whatever volume for over an hour. Doesn't justify owner losing her sht, but even the most sympathetic strangers don't actually WANT to listen to your kid cry, they just possess the social graces to restrain themselves from saying it.
I was wishing I could scream at a baby to shut up on a flight yesterday. The flight was ~4 hours from boarding to deplaning. There was a dad traveling alone with 3 children under ~5. The youngest, a boy, riding as a lap child was about 16 months. He screamed for 80% of the flight. Over three hours for you math majors. He did not "wear himself out". This kid has lungs for days. He just screamed and screamed and did the cry with no tears. The older two, girls of about ~5 and 3.5 also behaved miserably the entire time. They stood backwards on the seat shrieking and carrying on, fighting loudly about who got to sit by the window and the state of openness of the shade. They must have pressed the flight attendant call button 6x as they kept jamming all the buttons in the overhead panel. I was seven rows behind them, but could hear every word they said (yelled). I didn't notice the father reprimand them in any way the entire time, although in fairness, had he, I likely wouldn't have heard because normal speaking voices don't carry that distance.
I had a couple of thoughts. 1) if it had been a mom, she would have gotten nothing but glares, but since it was dad, I felt he received more sympathy than irritation, although clearly everyone in coach was SUPER annoyed at the noisy group. 2) i am SO HOPEFUL that as a parent I will be able to manage my children more appropriately. I understand that with the youngest, there isn't much to be done; certainly the options for redirecting attention/letting him walk around on an airplane are limited. But for heaven's sake, that 5 year old should know better than to stand on a seat and scream. Get a plan dad! Have some snacks or activities or something!
tl:dr, I'm going to be the MEANEST PARENT EVER because poorly behaved kids make me crazy. This poor child will be spending his life in timeout.
You are in for some rude awakenings. People can't not fly on a plane because they have kids. Snacks and "plans" don't always work. Toddlers are very unpredictable. I think it's going to be hilarious when you realize all of your plans for "managing your child" go out he window. Good luck with that.
After reading the Facebook post from the mother and the response from the owner, there is no doubt in my mind that the owner is the one blowing this way out of proportion. To swear that much in response to someone's comment about their experience at your business is rude and disrespectful. I would NEVER give that diner my money after seeing how she handled the situation both in the heat of the moment and afterwards. She could have apologized for losing her cool but instead freaked out and caused this entire uproar. I feel for this family who is being judged so much when clearly the owner has some issues. I don't care what the situation is if you own a business you can't treat people that way and expect that your business is going to last.
FTM, so I know that I know nothing. In reference to this incident, I think the owner sounds batty, out of line, and based on her poor command of the English language in her FB post, fairly uneducated. That said, I don't think the mom needs to get TOO pearl-clutchy about it. I'm sure the incident bothered mom a lot more than it bothered baby. And lets be honest, ain't nobody want to hear your baby "fuss" at whatever volume for over an hour. Doesn't justify owner losing her sht, but even the most sympathetic strangers don't actually WANT to listen to your kid cry, they just possess the social graces to restrain themselves from saying it.
I was wishing I could scream at a baby to shut up on a flight yesterday. The flight was ~4 hours from boarding to deplaning. There was a dad traveling alone with 3 children under ~5. The youngest, a boy, riding as a lap child was about 16 months. He screamed for 80% of the flight. Over three hours for you math majors. He did not "wear himself out". This kid has lungs for days. He just screamed and screamed and did the cry with no tears. The older two, girls of about ~5 and 3.5 also behaved miserably the entire time. They stood backwards on the seat shrieking and carrying on, fighting loudly about who got to sit by the window and the state of openness of the shade. They must have pressed the flight attendant call button 6x as they kept jamming all the buttons in the overhead panel. I was seven rows behind them, but could hear every word they said (yelled). I didn't notice the father reprimand them in any way the entire time, although in fairness, had he, I likely wouldn't have heard because normal speaking voices don't carry that distance.
I had a couple of thoughts. 1) if it had been a mom, she would have gotten nothing but glares, but since it was dad, I felt he received more sympathy than irritation, although clearly everyone in coach was SUPER annoyed at the noisy group. 2) i am SO HOPEFUL that as a parent I will be able to manage my children more appropriately. I understand that with the youngest, there isn't much to be done; certainly the options for redirecting attention/letting him walk around on an airplane are limited. But for heaven's sake, that 5 year old should know better than to stand on a seat and scream. Get a plan dad! Have some snacks or activities or something!
tl:dr, I'm going to be the MEANEST PARENT EVER because poorly behaved kids make me crazy. This poor child will be spending his life in timeout.
I am also a FTM and not naive enough to say "My child will always ______ or my child will never _____" I am sure that I am in for some rude awakenings as well. Having said that, I think we can all agree that we have seen/known parents who let their children do whatever they want regardless of how it is effecting other people and that is simply not okay. I knew as a 5 year old not to stand on any seat, much less one in an airplane. Children do cry and disrupt things and as a member of society we all have to deal with that but they also need to have boundaries of what behavior is acceptable. That will change as the child ages. The self control of a 5 year old is very different from that of a 16 month old.
All of that is not in reference to this situation though, those are just general thoughts. As for this situation, it seems insane to me to yell at a toddler.
I was a restaurant manager for a large very well known casual dining chain for 9 years. And you wouldn't believe how people allow children to behave in a restaurant. I have had to ask toddlers to get down off the back of booth seats because the parents dont, but I'm sure we would get the Dr bill for the stitches when the kid falls and cracks his head on the table behind. Listened to children under a year scream because the parents let them crawl on the table and then they hit their head on the light fixture. I on more than one occasion had to ask children to please sit down because the parents are allowing them to run around on a busy Friday night while servers are all over with hot plates of food. I was always polite and made sure the parents heard my request to. I've had incidents where small children are screaming and other patrons have asked me to ask the offending child to leave. It's very uncomfortable for everyone. When I as a manager have come to your table and offered crackers, fries, to go boxes, asked if you would like your food boxed to go etc and the people around you are moving or leaving and you still don't get that you are ruining the experience for dozens of others that's unacceptable. I also believe bringing a child under the age of 5 to ANY restaurant/diner that has a huge wait is a ridiculous idea. You are just asking for a problem.
Re: kids on a plane, that is a sore subject for me. I have flown exactly once with DD, she was 18 months old at the time, and she was great on the way there and HORRIBLE on the way back. We had enough snacks and activities for an army of toddlers but she screamed most of the way. I could not believe some of the nasty looks, eye rolls, and audible comments about "It's going to be a looooong flight" I got. I was doing everything in my power to calm her down but options are limited on an airplane and she was just over it. Here's what bothers me about people who are nasty to parents in a situation like that. You know who is affected the most by my child's tantrum? ME. It's awful as a parent to feel so helpless, giving me a nasty look on top of it does nothing but make me hate you. You think you don't like being on the same plane as a small child having a meltdown? Try being that child's mother.
Ok end rant. Clearly I am still harboring some resentment about that incident.
I was a restaurant manager for a large very well known casual dining chain for 9 years. And you wouldn't believe how people allow children to behave in a restaurant. I have had to ask toddlers to get down off the back of booth seats because the parents dont, but I'm sure we would get the Dr bill for the stitches when the kid falls and cracks his head on the table behind. Listened to children under a year scream because the parents let them crawl on the table and then they hit their head on the light fixture. I on more than one occasion had to ask children to please sit down because the parents are allowing them to run around on a busy Friday night while servers are all over with hot plates of food. I was always polite and made sure the parents heard my request to. I've had incidents where small children are screaming and other patrons have asked me to ask the offending child to leave. It's very uncomfortable for everyone. When I as a manager have come to your table and offered crackers, fries, to go boxes, asked if you would like your food boxed to go etc and the people around you are moving or leaving and you still don't get that you are ruining the experience for dozens of others that's unacceptable. I also believe bringing a child under the age of 5 to ANY restaurant/diner that has a huge wait is a ridiculous idea. You are just asking for a problem.
THIS! My husband worked in hospitality before changing careers. He was a restaurant manager and constantly had issue with the "non-parent parents". The type with complete disregard for others and who let their kids run all over the place, bumping into other diners chairs/tables, screaming the entire meal at an age where they could be reasoned with (not toddlers obviously), etc. Those are the type of "parents" that I strive NOT to be. Our 16m old is awesome. He very rarely has a public meltdown and we know we are lucky for that disposition as some toddlers just can't help themselves. That said, sometimes no matter how hard we try you simply can't avoid a meltdown. Those are the situations where I feel for the parents. The type of parents who did everything in their power to provide a situation the kid could handle and actively to try distract/diffuse the situation. Toddlers are just not rational human beings. DS doesn't understand "just 5 more minutes sweetie and your food should be here". As such, one of us will distract and/or remove him from the table in a restaurant setting until he is calm. As a parent of a toddler, we eat at off peak hours when there is no wait and we pick family friendly spots. We do this to ensure our sanity, the sanity of other diners and our little guy. You have to be bat shit out of your mind to think you can get away with a long wait just to be seated at a packed diner with a toddler and not have a meltdown at some point. I don't know the family in the Portland incident nor their toddler. Maybe their kid can usually handle a wait like that... I don't know. Those toddlers do exist out there.. just very few and far between. I know that DS couldn't handle a long wait like that without losing it at some point, so we just opt to go elsewhere. Hands down the owner of that Portland diner is a psycho and out of line for yelling at a toddler, but the parents are not innocent either. I think they should have exercised better judgement overall in deciding to wait and eat there. I love Portland and have been several times. There are plenty of options in the area for breakfast - there was no need to wait at that diner.
I was a restaurant manager for a large very well known casual dining chain for 9 years. And you wouldn't believe how people allow children to behave in a restaurant. I have had to ask toddlers to get down off the back of booth seats because the parents dont, but I'm sure we would get the Dr bill for the stitches when the kid falls and cracks his head on the table behind. Listened to children under a year scream because the parents let them crawl on the table and then they hit their head on the light fixture. I on more than one occasion had to ask children to please sit down because the parents are allowing them to run around on a busy Friday night while servers are all over with hot plates of food. I was always polite and made sure the parents heard my request to. I've had incidents where small children are screaming and other patrons have asked me to ask the offending child to leave. It's very uncomfortable for everyone. When I as a manager have come to your table and offered crackers, fries, to go boxes, asked if you would like your food boxed to go etc and the people around you are moving or leaving and you still don't get that you are ruining the experience for dozens of others that's unacceptable. I also believe bringing a child under the age of 5 to ANY restaurant/diner that has a huge wait is a ridiculous idea. You are just asking for a problem.
THIS! My husband worked in hospitality before changing careers. He was a restaurant manager and constantly had issue with the "non-parent parents". The type with complete disregard for others and who let their kids run all over the place, bumping into other diners chairs/tables, screaming the entire meal at an age where they could be reasoned with (not toddlers obviously), etc. Those are the type of "parents" that I strive NOT to be. Our 16m old is awesome. He very rarely has a public meltdown and we know we are lucky for that disposition as some toddlers just can't help themselves. That said, sometimes no matter how hard we try you simply can't avoid a meltdown. Those are the situations where I feel for the parents. The type of parents who did everything in their power to provide a situation the kid could handle and actively to try distract/diffuse the situation. Toddlers are just not rational human beings. DS doesn't understand "just 5 more minutes sweetie and your food should be here". As such, one of us will distract and/or remove him from the table in a restaurant setting until he is calm. As a parent of a toddler, we eat at off peak hours when there is no wait and we pick family friendly spots. We do this to ensure our sanity, the sanity of other diners and our little guy. You have to be bat shit out of your mind to think you can get away with a long wait just to be seated at a packed diner with a toddler and not have a meltdown at some point. I don't know the family in the Portland incident nor their toddler. Maybe their kid can usually handle a wait like that... I don't know. Those toddlers do exist out there.. just very few and far between. I know that DS couldn't handle a long wait like that without losing it at some point, so we just opt to go elsewhere. Hands down the owner of that Portland diner is a psycho and out of line for yelling at a toddler, but the parents are not innocent either. I think they should have exercised better judgement overall in deciding to wait and eat there. I love Portland and have been several times. There are plenty of options in the area for breakfast - there was no need to wait at that diner.
Oh and might I add. Am I the only who can't stop dreaming about eating pancakes when I hear about this story??? I know where I'm not going for pancakes, but boy does the story make me want some!
Re: kids on a plane, that is a sore subject for me. I have flown exactly once with DD, she was 18 months old at the time, and she was great on the way there and HORRIBLE on the way back. We had enough snacks and activities for an army of toddlers but she screamed most of the way. I could not believe some of the nasty looks, eye rolls, and audible comments about "It's going to be a looooong flight" I got. I was doing everything in my power to calm her down but options are limited on an airplane and she was just over it. Here's what bothers me about people who are nasty to parents in a situation like that. You know who is affected the most by my child's tantrum? ME. It's awful as a parent to feel so helpless, giving me a nasty look on top of it does nothing but make me hate you. You think you don't like being on the same plane as a small child having a meltdown? Try being that child's mother.
Ok end rant. Clearly I am still harboring some resentment about that incident.
Yesss, I feel so much sympathy for parents with kids on planes. There really is only so much you can do, and there is no excusing yourself from the situation. I guess I'm probably a totally odd one, because even a screaming child right near me on a plane rarely bothers me, but I do totally get that it's annoying to the vast majority of passengers. However, having a negative attitude and being rude about it helps no one. The comments I've heard in the past are ridiculous.
And it honestly makes me so nervous, because I know that at about a year old my son is going to be on a 10 hour (though likely broken into separate legs) flight. Even if I have the happiest baby in the world that could still be a complete disaster. He isn't even born yet, and I'm already nervous about it, haha.
In regards to tantrums and things like that reflecting on parenting ability, sometimes it does. I think we all know that. Quite a bit of the time I think we need to remember we don't know the circumstances that brought the tantrum or lack of parental supervision about. I wonder if the dad on that plane had lost his wife or if the family was flying due to some other tragedy. When children lose it in stores and even start hitting themselves and other people I often wonder whether they have a developmental/psychiatric problem.
We talk about teaching our kids how to tolerate the world around us and not to judge people, but sometimes we need to remember that's a valuable lesson for adults too. Where do you think kids learn tolerance or a lack of it?
If there's something strange underneath the hood. Who you gonna call? Your Doctor. If there's something weird and it don't look good. Who you gonna call? Your Doctor. Immediately. If it's new, painful, and possibly pregnancy related get your ass off the internet and call your doctor. It's for your health and your child's.
Certainly agree with lots of the good discussion above! Tantrums are one of my biggest parenting fear-factors, so some of the tips here are really helpful!
LSRoo - I know enough to know that I can't even fathom the number times and ways this kid is going to push me to my wits end and beyond. Not at all trying to suggest I think I'll be able to avoid it. I suppose I do have some (probably naive) hope that by the time my son is 5 if I tell him to sit down on the seat he'll be scared enough of the consequences to listen to me, but I'm sure you are absolutely right and I'm marching my way right toward a lot of super embarrassing/frustrating situations where my son is defiant and my hands are tied. To say I'm terrified of this aspect of parenting is an understatement!
@trampledbykiddos - FWIW, I fly a ton for work and I find that crying babies are not even close to the most annoying passengers. I'm sorry you were seated by a bunch of rude people who tried to make you feel bad. I assure you--I did no such thing to the dad in my anecdote. I'm not looking forward to being in that position, but given my proclivity for travel, I know I will be sooner or later!
Also, this: (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/oct/17/crying-babies-hard-ignore). Combine the special sound of a screaming babe with the special stress level air travel can bring to even the most seasoned flyer, and odds are some folks will run out of patience. Fingers crossed we only get glares on the way to grandma's and not a full-on screaming attack from the likes of the Maine diner lady! Either way- I will try to bear in mind that these people (probably) don't actually think I'm the world's worst parent and want to skin me alive, they probably just had a shtty day and are crammed next to a fat guy and want to read 50 Shades on their kindle in peace. At the end of the day - this, too, shall pass. For angry baby, flustered mommy and seething fellow pax.
@vexedmommy Lots of factors contribute to behavior of both adults and children at any given moment. Giving others the benefit of the doubt can go a long way, and I agree that finding ways to demonstrate tolerance and understanding can be great teaching moments.
Even according to the mother's side of the story, they had a long wait to be seated (30 min), and a long wait for their food (40 min). She says the child was being fussy prior to their food arriving due to the wait. She then asserts that the owner asked them to leave (albeit rudely, by giving them boxes and raising her voice at the husband to remove the child or leave). They continued to eat their meal before the owner slammed her hands down and yelled at them from behind the counter. That's not to say that I agree with the way the situation was handled, because I don't. The owner certainly has handled the situation poorly. It's clear, however, that the parents were not entirely in the right, either. The fussing had probably been going on for more than just a few minutes if they were waiting over an hour combined for their food, and the parents are forthcoming with the fact that they made no effort to remove the child (it was raining, and perhaps the bathroom was too small). She also said that they ignored an initial request to leave (rude or not, she admits that they were told to go, and instead continued to eat). So while I don't agree with the owner's actions at all, I also don't agree with how the parents handled the situation.
They were on vacation and it was raining outside. Where were they supposed to go? Why the hell should paying patrons be forced to up and leave? Especially when being asked in such an ignorant manner. Because their child is crying-BOOM- get up and leave right now? Sometimes you can't just up and leave.
Again, I'm not saying I'm cool with the way the owner dealt with the situation. It was absolutely uncalled for, and I totally agree with you on that point. It just seems like the parents could have done more to defuse the situation before it got out of hand. Maybe there was a restroom they could have used to get the LO under control (they don't mention trying a restroom -- maybe it was occupied, or too small), or they could have shopped around for a different place to eat if they knew there was a long wait there (common sense will tell you that your food is probably going to take a while if you had to wait to be seated). I completely understand that you can't always reason with a small child, and agree that the owner was out of line. I just don't think the parents are completely blameless.
Re: Off Topic: Tantrums in Public
This. All they did was a Facebook review which was probably sent to a local TV station or newspaper and then the couple was contacted and decided to talk. I don't blame them for spreading their story.
And it honestly makes me so nervous, because I know that at about a year old my son is going to be on a 10 hour (though likely broken into separate legs) flight. Even if I have the happiest baby in the world that could still be a complete disaster. He isn't even born yet, and I'm already nervous about it, haha.
We talk about teaching our kids how to tolerate the world around us and not to judge people, but sometimes we need to remember that's a valuable lesson for adults too. Where do you think kids learn tolerance or a lack of it?