I apologize if this was already covered in this thread and I missed it. My preg brain gives me many duh moments lately.... have any of you met an uncircumcised man who is glad he was not circumcised?
My husband is not circumcised and he's glad he's not. Like PP said, how do they know unless they've test driven a circumcised penis, I don't know. But he is glad he isn't. My husband is Hispanic... No one in his family is circumcised. He has 5 brothers and his second oldest brother decided to get circumcised at like 28 years old. He wishes he didn't do it now. Not only because it was painful but bc there is a loss of pleasure sensation. Honestly... I didn't even know my husband wasn't circumcised until seriously almost a year of dating. Maybe it's just me, but when it's hard you really can't tell and I didn't have much to do with his penis if it was flaccid so I just never noticed lol.
In many African and middle eastern countries and others, women are "circumcised" (female genital mutilation really) and it's to control female sexuality and take the pleasure away from sex. I would not want this done to me or this decision to be made for me. So I will also not be making that decision for my son. I do not think I would feel differently if my husband was circumcised either. If my son wanted to have the procedure done later I would support him and help him find unbiased resources to research and make an informed decision. This is a very sensitive topic though and to each their own!
Edited for typo
I'm going to give a guess about your stance on infant ear piercing too...
There's a difference between infant male circumcision and third world female genital mutation though. Now the difference may not be that both could be argued as unnecessary, but when discussing valid reasons for or against having your infant male son circumcised after birth, you're really just playing to shock and awe to bring up a frequently barbaric oppressive practice.
I think you missed her point
While I get that her point was that these decisions are the child's to make in the future, and that the decision should not be taken from a person at birth, I agree with @pink*sheep that mentioning female genital mutilation (which is entirely different and unjustifiable) was unnecessary and unproductive. People who choose to circumcise their sons are in no way comparable to people who choose to mutilate their daughters.
I apologize if this was already covered in this thread and I missed it. My preg brain gives me many duh moments lately.... have any of you met an uncircumcised man who is glad he was not circumcised?
My husband is not circumcised and he's glad he's not. Like PP said, how do they know unless they've test driven a circumcised penis, I don't know. But he is glad he isn't. My husband is Hispanic... No one in his family is circumcised. He has 5 brothers and his second oldest brother decided to get circumcised at like 28 years old. He wishes he didn't do it now. Not only because it was painful but bc there is a loss of pleasure sensation. Honestly... I didn't even know my husband wasn't circumcised until seriously almost a year of dating. Maybe it's just me, but when it's hard you really can't tell and I didn't have much to do with his penis if it was flaccid so I just never noticed lol.
In many African and middle eastern countries and others, women are "circumcised" (female genital mutilation really) and it's to control female sexuality and take the pleasure away from sex. I would not want this done to me or this decision to be made for me. So I will also not be making that decision for my son. I do not think I would feel differently if my husband was circumcised either. If my son wanted to have the procedure done later I would support him and help him find unbiased resources to research and make an informed decision. This is a very sensitive topic though and to each their own!
Edited for typo
I'm going to give a guess about your stance on infant ear piercing too...
There's a difference between infant male circumcision and third world female genital mutation though. Now the difference may not be that both could be argued as unnecessary, but when discussing valid reasons for or against having your infant male son circumcised after birth, you're really just playing to shock and awe to bring up a frequently barbaric oppressive practice.
I think you missed her point
While I get that her point was that these decisions are the child's to make in the future, and that the decision should not be taken from a person at birth, I agree with @pink*sheep that mentioning female genital mutilation (which is entirely different and unjustifiable) was unnecessary and unproductive. People who choose to circumcise their sons are in no way comparable to people who choose to mutilate their daughters.
I didn't read it that she was comparing the people who practice FGM to those who circumcise or saying they were in any way similar. I read that she was giving an example of how she would not want a decision made about her sexual organs and sexual pleasure to be taken away from her at birth and as such she won't be doing that for her child.
Obviously posts can be misinterpreted on here, maybe I'm wrong in my interpretation.
I apologize if this was already covered in this thread and I missed it. My preg brain gives me many duh moments lately.... have any of you met an uncircumcised man who is glad he was not circumcised?
My husband is not circumcised and he's glad he's not. Like PP said, how do they know unless they've test driven a circumcised penis, I don't know. But he is glad he isn't. My husband is Hispanic... No one in his family is circumcised. He has 5 brothers and his second oldest brother decided to get circumcised at like 28 years old. He wishes he didn't do it now. Not only because it was painful but bc there is a loss of pleasure sensation.
Honestly... I didn't even know my husband wasn't circumcised until seriously almost a year of dating. Maybe it's just me, but when it's hard you really can't tell and I didn't have much to do with his penis if it was flaccid so I just never noticed lol.
In many African and middle eastern countries and others, women are "circumcised" (female genital mutilation really) and it's to control female sexuality and take the pleasure away from sex. I would not want this done to me or this decision to be made for me. So I will also not be making that decision for my son. I do not think I would feel differently if my husband was circumcised either. If my son wanted to have the procedure done later I would support him and help him find unbiased resources to research and make an informed decision. This is a very sensitive topic though and to each their own!
Edited for typo
I'm going to give a guess about your stance on infant ear piercing too...
There's a difference between infant male circumcision and third world female genital mutation though. Now the difference may not be that both could be argued as unnecessary, but when discussing valid reasons for or against having your infant male son circumcised after birth, you're really just playing to shock and awe to bring up a frequently barbaric oppressive practice.
I think you missed her point
While I get that her point was that these decisions are the child's to make in the future, and that the decision should not be taken from a person at birth, I agree with @pink*sheep that mentioning female genital mutilation (which is entirely different and unjustifiable) was unnecessary and unproductive. People who choose to circumcise their sons are in no way comparable to people who choose to mutilate their daughters.
I didn't read it that she was comparing the people who practice FGM to those who circumcise or saying they were in any way similar. I read that she was giving an example of how she would not want a decision made about her sexual organs and sexual pleasure to be taken away from her at birth and as such she won't be doing that for her child.
Obviously posts can be misinterpreted on here, maybe I'm wrong in my interpretation.
No worries. The way I read it, it seemed to suggest that making the decision to partake in FGM "to control female sexuality and take the pleasure away from sex" (which the poster stated was a decision she would not want made for her) was in some way comparable to making the decision to circumcise a male infant. They are entirely different decisions, made for entirely different reasons, and I don't think the comparison was helpful. Often, these threads lead to comparisons of circumcision to mutilation, and I may have been a tad too sensitive that that may be where this was headed.
Fur daughter: 02/2011 Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017 *formerly kayemjay*
Btw to piggyback off this thread for a second I noticed someone mentioned ear piercing a baby. I used to work somewhere that offered this service and it got to the point where I refused to do it to a baby. There are so many things that can get screwed up so just something to think about as well.
@mollypuss1 but you do realize that as parents it is our responsibility to make decisions and give guidance because they are not able to make decisions for themselves, right? I'm not arguing that one should or shouldn't, that's their decision, but I can't get down with the whole "they can make that decision when they're good and ready". Just say, I do or don't want it done.
Female genital mutilation happens during infancy and at birth also...and let's not forget why male circumcision began in the first place. It wasn't because of cleanliness or cancer. It was to "keep males pure" and to stop masturbation hence cutting off the part of the penis that was said to give them said pleasure. Maybe that's not the reason that people circumcise NOW but that is why it began. It has absolutely no relation to infant ear piercing either.
The infant ear piercing comment was in relation to the statement "I'll let them make their own decisions when they're old enough to do so". It lead me to assume she would not be a fan of infant ear piercing.
@mollypuss1 but you do realize that as parents it is our responsibility to make decisions and give guidance because they are not able to make decisions for themselves, right? I'm not arguing that one should or shouldn't, that's their decision, but I can't get down with the whole "they can make that decision when they're good and ready". Just say, I do or don't want it done.
Yes, I do realise it's a parent's responsibility to make decisions and give guidance. I don't see where in my previous posts I have given any indication that I believe otherwise? Little confused by this.
@mollypuss1 but you do realize that as parents it is our responsibility to make decisions and give guidance because they are not able to make decisions for themselves, right? I'm not arguing that one should or shouldn't, that's their decision, but I can't get down with the whole "they can make that decision when they're good and ready". Just say, I do or don't want it done.
Yes, I do realise it's a parent's responsibility to make decisions and give guidance. I don't see where in my previous posts I have given any indication that I believe otherwise? Little confused by this.
Then reread the second to last sentence I wrote. I was referencing the comment you made about the pp statement where you said "she did not want to make a decision about her child's sexual organs". I think it is a cop out to say "I'm going to let them make that decision when they're old enough". Either you want it done or you don't. They can literally do just about anything they want when they're old enough. TO ME it is not a valid argument. That was my point.
@mollypuss1 but you do realize that as parents it is our responsibility to make decisions and give guidance because they are not able to make decisions for themselves, right? I'm not arguing that one should or shouldn't, that's their decision, but I can't get down with the whole "they can make that decision when they're good and ready". Just say, I do or don't want it done.
Yes, I do realise it's a parent's responsibility to make decisions and give guidance. I don't see where in my previous posts I have given any indication that I believe otherwise? Little confused by this.
Then reread the second to last sentence I wrote. I was referencing the comment you made about the pp statement where you said "she did not want to make a decision about her child's sexual organs". I think it is a cop out to say "I'm going to let them make that decision when they're old enough". Either you want it done or you don't. They can literally do just about anything they want when they're old enough. TO ME it is not a valid argument. That was my point.
Maybe I should have been more clear then, what I meant was she did not want to make a decision to alter her child's sexual organs, not that she did not want to make a decision at all. Anyone who says they will leave it up to their child to make the decision whether they wish to be circumcised at a later stage in life is obviously making the decision not to circumcise. That seemed pretty obvious to me.
This is probably one of the only things that I will have my son decide for himself. Please don't devalue me as a parent in whole for that one decision. I understand that my job as a parent is to make decisions and give guidance because he can't do it for himself. Like I said originally, it is not a decision that I would want made for me. I understand that there are other decisions I'm going to have to make for him that he might not agree with or like but those things aren't quite the same as this. There aren't enough studies that provide concrete proof that it is medically necessary in my opinion. I understand from this thread that people often make the decision based on cleanliness, tradition, so their son doesn't feel different, etc. but that doesn't take away from the reason that circumcision began. Even if someone is doing it only for medical reasons, it's still taking away from sexual pleasure like it was designed to do. That was the only way I was comparing it to FGM because that is one of the main reasons it's done. They were created to do the same things and both have been deemed as medically unnecessary.
@mollypuss1 but you do realize that as parents it is our responsibility to make decisions and give guidance because they are not able to make decisions for themselves, right? I'm not arguing that one should or shouldn't, that's their decision, but I can't get down with the whole "they can make that decision when they're good and ready". Just say, I do or don't want it done.
Yes, I do realise it's a parent's responsibility to make decisions and give guidance. I don't see where in my previous posts I have given any indication that I believe otherwise? Little confused by this.
Then reread the second to last sentence I wrote. I was referencing the comment you made about the pp statement where you said "she did not want to make a decision about her child's sexual organs". I think it is a cop out to say "I'm going to let them make that decision when they're old enough". Either you want it done or you don't. They can literally do just about anything they want when they're old enough. TO ME it is not a valid argument. That was my point.
For me it's not a cop out. I know where I stand and have no problem making the decision. Sorry if I didn't make that clear or if I'm still misunderstanding. My son will not be circumcised because there is no concrete proof that it will benefit him medically. But if he decides later that he wants to be circumcised because all the boys in the locker room are or that's what the girls like (which are the only reasons I figure he would want it unless there is some new ground breaking study in the future) then THAT is when the decision will be up to him.
ETA because I hit post on accident: And if he comes to me with the two reasons I said besides a ground breaking new study, I will help him research the topic to make a better decision than "well that's what girls like".
It's a real stretch to say that parents who decide not to circumcise but would support their son's decision to do it later aren't able to make parental decisions. As pp said, obviously the decision is not to circumcise. My DH is displeased the decision was made for him so why then would we not learn from that?
And to answer another question, I don't agree with infant ear piercing. But not sure what that has anything to do with this topic.
This is probably one of the only things that I will have my son decide for himself. Please don't devalue me as a parent in whole for that one decision. I understand that my job as a parent is to make decisions and give guidance because he can't do it for himself. Like I said originally, it is not a decision that I would want made for me. I understand that there are other decisions I'm going to have to make for him that he might not agree with or like but those things aren't quite the same as this. There aren't enough studies that provide concrete proof that it is medically necessary in my opinion. I understand from this thread that people often make the decision based on cleanliness, tradition, so their son doesn't feel different, etc. but that doesn't take away from the reason that circumcision began. Even if someone is doing it only for medical reasons, it's still taking away from sexual pleasure like it was designed to do. That was the only way I was comparing it to FGM because that is one of the main reasons it's done. They were created to do the same things and both have been deemed as medically unnecessary.
Actually circumcision was started long before the 'stay pure, cut it off to stop masturbating' thing. It was started for cleanliness in the time of the bible. When running water/clean water wasn't available and there were legitimate issues with hygiene. Please do some further research into the origin of both FGM and Circumcision.
Formerly known as Kate08young August '18 Siggy April Showers:
Me: 28 H: 24 Married: 7/22/14 Baby L: 8/4/2015 August 2015 Moms Baby E: 11/18/2016 December 2016 Moms TTC #3 08/2017 BFP 11/27/2017. Twin B lost 11/22/2017, Twin A doing well.
I was really hoping this wasn't going to go here but I would like to see where you're getting that information from because there are conflicting sources of when and where circumcision began.
Man, the last time I commented on this thread everyone was still civil.
I don't want to be made to feel bad for allowing my husband to make the decision that he wants our child circumcised. I don't want to be made to feel bad for choosing to breastfeed during the day and then mix with formula at night for a (hopefully) longer sleep pattern. I don't want to be made to feel bad for not worrying about eating hot dogs and deli meat.
It'd be great if everyone could just be like, "hey, this is what I'm doing." and everyone else would be like, "oh cool, I'm doing it this way instead." and then we all move the eff on, because at the end of the day, what you do with your child doesn't affect what I do with mine.
Man, the last time I commented on this thread everyone was still civil.
I don't want to be made to feel bad for allowing my husband to make the decision that he wants our child circumcised. I don't want to be made to feel bad for choosing to breastfeed during the day and then mix with formula at night for a (hopefully) longer sleep pattern. I don't want to be made to feel bad for not worrying about eating hot dogs and deli meat.
It'd be great if everyone could just be like, "hey, this is what I'm doing." and everyone else would be like, "oh cool, I'm doing it this way instead." and then we all move the eff on, because at the end of the day, what you do with your child doesn't affect what I do with mine.
The end.
This still seems reasonably civil thread to me in comparison to some others I've read (the gender disappointment one today for example) and I don't think anyone was trying to make anyone else feel bad for their decisions, I know I certainly wasn't. I think things can get a little heated when discussing such a sensitive subject but I do think the majority are respecting each other's opinions even if they disagree. Like I said ages ago, I don't expect my opinions to change anyone else's views anymore than their opinions will change mine. We're just all giving our opinions which is what the OP asked for in the first place.
Can I give my 2 cents worth? My stepson (who is 21) didn't have this done until he was almost a teenager and he has said many times he wishes the hubs and the ex had done this when he was younger. I had a cousin who is 50+ who just had it done because it kept causing infections. I've had friends who have had their DS' circumcised when they were born and never regretted it.
Now all that being said..The hubs and I did discuss it and I left it up to him. He said yes. He has seen what can happen and doesn't want this LO to go through that. So yes, we are having it done.
I was really hoping this wasn't going to go here but I would like to see where you're getting that information from because there are conflicting sources of when and where circumcision began.
If it was as simple as letting him decide when he is older I would be all for that, but it's not. The fact is it is a whole different ballgame when they are older vs infant. I dunno just based on my own personal research I will make this decision for him since it's not an easily fixed one later on
When the dr first asked if we were going to circumcise, I said yes without a thought because as far as I knew, circumcision is just what you do. That surprised my husband because we hadn't talked about it and so he wasn't sure why he was in on the convo that went on in my head lol.
But when we discussed it, we decided we would circumcise because my husband is circumcised. Ironically, he told me he didn't even know he was circumcised until college when he and his roommate somehow got on the topic.
I'm not worried about being judged by those who think I'm going to be torturing my son or that we're circumcising him unnecessarily. This is our decision as a couple. We discussed it and we've made our decision. I'm not worried about "scarring" my son - contrary to popular belief they don't have a functioning memory of anything that close to birth and they won't know what happened. The open heart surgery my husband had to have before he was 1 was much more scarring than circumcision.
That being said, I want to make it clear that I don't have a problem with parents who decide to leave their son uncut. At this point in our culture and health advances, it's a decision the parents need to make. My husband and I have made ours and we don't see a point in second guessing it.
First of all, the cancer idea is ridiculous; like someone said, correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Secondly, my obgyn said it is considered a cosmetic procedure nowadays which makes complete sense to me. Lastly, I find it bizarre that no one has brought up the fact of oversnipping. If the doctor were to mess up and cut a bit extra that could likely lead to a micropenis or worse; it happens and more often then you'd think. Personally, I would feel beyond responsible for my son being micro or maybe even having to go through transitional surgery just because I wanted him to be "normal" or "clean". Think about it.
The pediatric urologist we used actually errs on the side of caution and takes less using the Plastibell technique. I believe a lot of specialists are leaning toward this now.
All of those in favor should watch a video of it being done, since you in fact will be present for this cosmetic surgery.
We have chosen not to change our sons body but will support his right to choose if he wants have the process done later. I think being worried of being "different" is such a crazy reason to do it. Also, to think it's more painful for them to get it done later is just as crazy, it's painful at any age!
Not always. The doctors took our son back to a separate room to do the procedure. He didn't have it done until a month old, but even at the hospital they would have taken him and brought him back.
Man, the last time I commented on this thread everyone was still civil.
I don't want to be made to feel bad for allowing my husband to make the decision that he wants our child circumcised. I don't want to be made to feel bad for choosing to breastfeed during the day and then mix with formula at night for a (hopefully) longer sleep pattern. I don't want to be made to feel bad for not worrying about eating hot dogs and deli meat.
It'd be great if everyone could just be like, "hey, this is what I'm doing." and everyone else would be like, "oh cool, I'm doing it this way instead." and then we all move the eff on, because at the end of the day, what you do with your child doesn't affect what I do with mine.
The end.
I let my husband make the decision and FF from about our second day home, I had to give up BF due to severe PPA. I ate all the Jimmy John's I could find. At the end of the day, like you said, these are each parent's choices to make. If your baby is happy and healthy (within what you have control over, obviously; we can't control all health conditions), you win, in my opinion.
If it was as simple as letting him decide when he is older I would be all for that, but it's not. The fact is it is a whole different ballgame when they are older vs infant. I dunno just based on my own personal research I will make this decision for him since it's not an easily fixed one later on
The truth is though that it is just as painful for an infant as it is an adult. Just because they aren't able to express to you the pain they are in, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt just as much. Also, as an adult, the ones I've seen as a nurse, are done under sedation. Your infant will be fully awake for this procedure and unable to comprehend why he is experiencing so much pain. I stand by my previous post though. Research through unbiased medical journals will be your best source. They are unopinionated and give you the best information. In doing so, you'll be able to make the best decision for you and your family, whatever it may be.
If your husband is not cut and wishes he was, then let him get cut and see how he likes it. Very few whole men wish they were cut, and many who choose to have it done as adults say it was the worst decision of their lives. This is especially so if they just did it to stop being "different".
That has nothing to do with your son. If you cut your son, he may grow up to join the increasing number of men who hate being cut, and there is little they can do about it. Again, if he ever wants to be cut, he can be. The rate is around 55% the USA and falling, so he'll be the same as about the same number as he's different from. Any teasing could go either way and there probably won't be any. (If there is, he will have a ready answer: "Do you know what they did to you?")
What mollypuss1 is missing is that cutting part off a baby is not equal and opposite to leaving his genitals alone. One is an irrevocable change (for the less). The other is casting your vote for the status quo, standard procedure when votes are tied.
If your husband is not cut and wishes he was, then let him get cut and see how he likes it. Very few whole men wish they were cut, and many who choose to have it done as adults say it was the worst decision of their lives. This is especially so if they just did it to stop being "different".
That has nothing to do with your son. If you cut your son, he may grow up to join the increasing number of men who hate being cut, and there is little they can do about it. Again, if he ever wants to be cut, he can be. The rate is around 55% the USA and falling, so he'll be the same as about the same number as he's different from. Any teasing could go either way and there probably won't be any. (If there is, he will have a ready answer: "Do you know what they did to you?")
What mollypuss1 is missing is that cutting part off a baby is not equal and opposite to leaving his genitals alone. One is an irrevocable change (for the less). The other is casting your vote for the status quo, standard procedure when votes are tied.
I 100% agree, I don't think I was missing the point :S
I struggled with this decision with DS #1. My research concluded there was no clear recommendation either way from the medical profession. We decided not to do it. My reasoning was he could always do it later in life. I also know someone that had issues w their son because more was cut than should have been cut. Just seemed unnecessary to me
Re: Circumcision or Not?
This. Thank you @kayemjay2
I didn't read it that she was comparing the people who practice FGM to those who circumcise or saying they were in any way similar. I read that she was giving an example of how she would not want a decision made about her sexual organs and sexual pleasure to be taken away from her at birth and as such she won't be doing that for her child.
Obviously posts can be misinterpreted on here, maybe I'm wrong in my interpretation.
Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
*formerly kayemjay*
Maybe that's not the reason that people circumcise NOW but that is why it began.
It has absolutely no relation to infant ear piercing either.
ETA because I hit post on accident:
And if he comes to me with the two reasons I said besides a ground breaking new study, I will help him research the topic to make a better decision than "well that's what girls like".
And to answer another question, I don't agree with infant ear piercing. But not sure what that has anything to do with this topic.
Formerly known as Kate08young
August '18 Siggy April Showers:
Married: 7/22/14
Baby L: 8/4/2015 August 2015 Moms
Baby E: 11/18/2016 December 2016 Moms
TTC #3 08/2017 BFP 11/27/2017.
Twin B lost 11/22/2017, Twin A doing well.
I don't want to be made to feel bad for allowing my husband to make the decision that he wants our child circumcised. I don't want to be made to feel bad for choosing to breastfeed during the day and then mix with formula at night for a (hopefully) longer sleep pattern. I don't want to be made to feel bad for not worrying about eating hot dogs and deli meat.
It'd be great if everyone could just be like, "hey, this is what I'm doing." and everyone else would be like, "oh cool, I'm doing it this way instead." and then we all move the eff on, because at the end of the day, what you do with your child doesn't affect what I do with mine.
The end.
Now all that being said..The hubs and I did discuss it and I left it up to him. He said yes. He has seen what can happen and doesn't want this LO to go through that. So yes, we are having it done.
Anyways . . .
Here are 2 decent sources:
https://www.cirp.org/library/history/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/circumcision.html
This one has many different sources, as it is an actual study done of different religious and historical texts:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/23135/23135-h/23135-h.htm
Formerly known as Kate08young
August '18 Siggy April Showers:
Married: 7/22/14
Baby L: 8/4/2015 August 2015 Moms
Baby E: 11/18/2016 December 2016 Moms
TTC #3 08/2017 BFP 11/27/2017.
Twin B lost 11/22/2017, Twin A doing well.
But when we discussed it, we decided we would circumcise because my husband is circumcised. Ironically, he told me he didn't even know he was circumcised until college when he and his roommate somehow got on the topic.
I'm not worried about being judged by those who think I'm going to be torturing my son or that we're circumcising him unnecessarily. This is our decision as a couple. We discussed it and we've made our decision. I'm not worried about "scarring" my son - contrary to popular belief they don't have a functioning memory of anything that close to birth and they won't know what happened. The open heart surgery my husband had to have before he was 1 was much more scarring than circumcision.
That being said, I want to make it clear that I don't have a problem with parents who decide to leave their son uncut. At this point in our culture and health advances, it's a decision the parents need to make. My husband and I have made ours and we don't see a point in second guessing it.
That has nothing to do with your son. If you cut your son, he may grow up to join the increasing number of men who hate being cut, and there is little they can do about it. Again, if he ever wants to be cut, he can be. The rate is around 55% the USA and falling, so he'll be the same as about the same number as he's different from. Any teasing could go either way and there probably won't be any. (If there is, he will have a ready answer: "Do you know what they did to you?")
What mollypuss1 is missing is that cutting part off a baby is not equal and opposite to leaving his genitals alone. One is an irrevocable change (for the less). The other is casting your vote for the status quo, standard procedure when votes are tied.