Work problems... WWYD?

GirPipley · January 2015

For those that don't know, I own a daycare. It's small, under 10 kids. I have two full time employees and a few part time ones. (One of the full timers is "the manager"

One of my full timers and both part timers started school this past Monday. My plan was for me to fill in the gaps until I found a new full timer. I am super picky about my staff, and it usually takes about 2 months for me to find someone.

When I got thrown on bedrest over the weekend, I scrambled, and offered the position to the best candidate I had found, knowing I had some reservations.(mainly just that her personality is a lot different than mine and my head girl, but she was great with the kids and parents, and that what really matters) The only alternative was to close this week, which I wasn't comfortable doing on no notice.

Today was supposed to be her 3rd day, and she called out. Well, she didn't even call, she emailed me at 8:30am, for her shift that started at 9. This lady is in her late 30s, and has worked at other daycares, so she knows that we have to stay in ratios and such. Her reason for calling out: she wants to spend today filling out her new hire forms. Like- the w-4, I-9, and some licensing forms. Um... Those forms should take less then 20 mins to fill out, which she could have done yesterday when she was here, all day,with my manager and only 3 kids all day, riding the clock.

My questions is, should I even bother giving her another chance? Legally, she is not an employee until her background checks come back clear, which she hasn't turned in yet. (I have 30 days, as long as she's under direct supervision of someone who has been cleared). I'm also an at will employer, so really, I can fire her without cause.

I'm just worried about next week, I just have today, and Monday (thankfully a Holiday) to find someone. I can always use a backup service for a sub, but that's gunna cost me a stiff $25-$30/hour, which....yeah.

Any other bosses out there? I fucking hate the HR hat. It's my least favorite part of owning a business.

What do you all think?

Sorry so fucking long!

alygator11687 · January 2015

That's a tough situation to be in! Seems shady to me that she would call out for filling out forms... Does she have off on Monday making it a 4 day weekend for her? If you're an at will employer I'd say that it's not working out and part ways. Do you have any other candidates who you haven't interviewed yet? Good luck!

GirPipley · January 2015

@wormgerm‌ you are right, and this is not even a minimum wage job. That's part of why I'm so confused. I pay them $3-$4 more an hour than the centers do, I offer paid holidays, vacation, and a benefit package after 90 days.

GirPipley · January 2015

@wormgerm‌ you are right, and this is not even a minimum wage job. That's part of why I'm so confused. I pay them $3-$4 more an hour than the centers do, I offer paid holidays, vacation, and a benefit package after 90 days.

sgarmand · January 2015

I'm not a boss, but I am a functioning adult in the workforce that has held a steady job for years and that's a really stupid, unacceptable reason to call out IMO.

ETA: I guess my point is, if she's that comfortable doing that three days in, there's no telling how much it will happen down the road when she really feels settled in.

GirPipley · January 2015

@pcrunk‌ everything was absolutely explained. I also have a zero tolerance for bullshit, which is why I'm struggling here, since I'm screwed for next week now.

I am positive you had amazing boss qualities, I a boss that puts firm expectations out there, and then follows through, is the best kind. <--- I just answered my question.

This is a great company to work for. I'm just mad I was so emotionally drained this week, and didn't/wasn't able to continue interviewing.

GirPipley · January 2015

sgarmand said:
I'm not a boss, but I am a functioning adult in the workforce that has held a steady job for years and that's a really stupid, unacceptable reason to call out IMO.

ETA: I guess my point is, if she's that comfortable doing that three days in, there's no telling how much it will happen down the road when she really feels settled in.

This is exactly my fear. If I let this slide (out of desperation really) what is the future going to look like? She's going to call in to get her hair cut? Nails done? Take the dog to the park? Wtf.

@alygator11687‌ -yes, 4 day weekend. We also were closed Wednesday for snow, so.... Yeah.

thelittlestbee · January 2015

I'm not a boss either, but that is just a shitty excuse to miss work. She sounds incredibly unreliable and irresponsible. If you give her another chance, she's going to keep coming up with stupid reasons to be late or not show up at all. We have someone like that in our office and it annoys the shit out of me to no end. 4 out of 5 days this week she texted me with bogus reasons for being late to work. I can't deal with people like that and I certainly wouldn't want them working for me.

thelittlestbee · January 2015

BTW I read your other post about being put on bed rest. I hope you and the twins are doing OK!

alygator11687 · January 2015

@GirPipley‌ - that's sketchy as hell. I'd be ticked! At this point how do you even know she will be reliable for next week?!

GirPipley · January 2015

thelittlestbee said:
BTW I read your other post about being put on bed rest. I hope you and the twins are doing OK!

Thank you, we are all doing much better!

kls6382 · January 2015

I am a boss, and I would strongly consider letting her go. If she does not have the sense to think about how she will be perceived when emailing out on the Friday (before a long weekend !?!?! suspicious much?), then she just doesn't have any common sense and probably won't be a stellar employee. You need someone with better work ethic.

GirPipley · January 2015

pcrunk said:

GirPipley said:

@pcrunk‌ everything was absolutely explained. I also have a zero tolerance for bullshit, which is why I'm struggling here, since I'm screwed for next week now.

I am positive you had amazing boss qualities, I a boss that puts firm expectations out there, and then follows through, is the best kind. <--- I just answered my question.

This is a great company to work for. I'm just mad I was so emotionally drained this week, and didn't/wasn't able to continue interviewing.

Oh, I completely get how you feel with the being screwed thing. Kind of. On a smaller scale. I obviously wasn't pregnant with twins and dealing with scary pregnancy things... I had to fire one of my assistants one year a week before Black Friday, aka the biggest shopping day of the year, for sexual harassment. Like WHY? Why couldn't you wait a week to be a skeeze? Or in your case a frosted flake? I know it's not ideal but if you keep her on, even just until you find someone, I think it'll probably cause more trouble than it's worth.

Lol, at "wait a week to be a skeeze"

This just made me wonder if she thinks I can't fire her, because I'm "desperate". She knows I'm on bedrest. I feel slightly taken here.

kimmarie1105 · January 2015

I am a boss. I would not have her come back. StRt looking for someone else now. Filling out her new hire paperwork does not take an entire day unless you are Helen Keller. I foresee a bucket full of excuses.

effthisnoise · January 2015

kimmarie1105 said:
I am a boss. I would not have her come back. StRt looking for someone else now. Filling out her new hire paperwork does not take an entire day unless you are Helen Keller. I foresee a bucket full of excuses.

Shoot, even Helen Keller could see this girl's bullshit. @GirPipley‌ definitely get rid of her. If she needed today off for some reason, she could have told you before you hired her.

finchfeeder80 · January 2015

As an employee who has many times had to pick up the slack for a chronically absent/late co-worker, I'd say just say no! I was so resentful at this employee by the time she left, I was almost ready to head up a good bye party committee!

As a former team lead, I was extremely no nonsense with my boss, if I felt (especially with the temps) that they weren't taking the job seriously I had no qualms giving my honest opinion. Which is probably why no one liked me and they tried to stage a coup during a team meeting.

I'd say she's not going to be worth your bother. She could have filled those forms out on Monday or Wednesday, you know, when she already had the whole day off.

khaze · January 2015

sgarmand said:

I'm not a boss, but I am a functioning adult in the workforce that has held a steady job for years and that's a really stupid, unacceptable reason to call out IMO.

ETA: I guess my point is, if she's that comfortable doing that three days in, there's no telling how much it will happen down the road when she really feels settled in.

This exactly. Find someone else. I typically try to wait at least 90 days after starting a new job until I start taking time off.

GirPipley · January 2015

wormgerm said:
Just to clarify I assumed the position was decently paid. I mentioned minimum wage jobs because those are the most basic low responsibility jobs there are. Flipping burgers isn't on the same level as caring for strangers young children. Why would anyone put up with that crap? Obviously no one who has replied so far would. Yourself included. I hope you find an awesome replacement soon so you can get back to focusing on growing those boys!

Oh, I totally knew you weren't assuming it was, I just wanted to throw it out there, that this is kind of a cushy job, and she's kind of an idiot for fucking it up.

kej0004 · January 2015

jenniebird327 said:

I'm a retail manager and have been for years. If a new hire pulled that with me I would have told her either she comes in or the offer is rescinded.

I was a supervisor for about 2 months before I got pregnant and couldn't do the job anymore (not like a discrimination thing, a safety thing--toxic chemicals, etc), so I'm obviously SUPER qualified to answer this question...

But I agree with @jenniebird327. Not sure what all goes in to her everyday work at the daycare, but surely there would have been a couple minutes to fill out forms if she needed to. Or even leave a few minutes early maybe? But not coming in at all would have been the end of her employment to me.

Twinteriscoming · January 2015

I'm a small business owner and have struggled with this sort of thing for years! I'm too big of a softie and I hate confrontation. I've had employees steal from me, come in late consistently, take off without giving notice. I lay out the expectations and while I do expect them to do what I tell them to do, I'm really bad at the follow through. I usually say nothing or almost nothing and then fire then suddenly when I snap. Don't do that. Don't feel employer guilt. Hold her accountable. Send her an email and let her know parents and children count on your center and you can't have last minute cancellations over non-emergencies. For that reason, you won't be asking her to come back but thanks for your time buh bye. She will definitely do this again and you'll just kick yourself for not giving her the axe right away. If she actually cared about the job she wouldn't have pulled that stunt. Be done. Find a replacement you trust even if you have to pay more for a few days (hopefully you won't have to). Above all, take care of yourself and your babies. These issues cause stress that can be life threatening for you right now. The last thing you need is a flaky new employment you don't even get along with very well. Fire her. Right now is a good time. Leave no room for discussion. You're a mama bear. :-)

GirPipley · January 2015

@kej0004‌ there is PLENTY of time during the day. The kids are all under 2. They nap twice a day for 2 hours, and yesterday, there was only 3 here, because the flu. During the kids first nap, I expect staff to be proactive with cleaning, lesson planning, organization etc. the second nap, IDGAF what they do. They deserve a rest, the kids can be exhausting.

Technically, I only need 1 adult for 4 kids. So I gave her the option to either stay and read some CDA books (she needs 16 hours of child development training/ year) study licensing, clean, or go home. She stayed, and did "some reading" though I'm guessing I could ask her 5 questions and she wouldn't know the answer to any of them. She should have filled out her shit. I also don't care about her tax forms, that's on her, she can't get set up for payroll until she turns them in, so....

mmo2112 · January 2015

This chick is a walking disaster. I'd also give her the boot (although I might wait until you can interview replacements if you feel comfortable waiting that long?).

Today, can you tell her to bring her forms in with her and fill them out at work? I'm not sure why she needs to be off-site while she takes care of that...?

bruunk · January 2015

I would have to be REALLY sick to call in sick my 3rd day - I would have done the forms the night of my first day and gotten them to you asap (but I'm a people pleaser...). Especially since you need to not have extra stress and by able to trust your employees, she doesn't sound like a good fit.

GirPipley · January 2015

So... I just spoke with my head girl, and she told me that yesterday, new girl called her mom at break and was asking her mom how to phase an email about being paid on Monday. She also asked my head if she could take the employment forms home so her parents could review them. #:-S

Oh, and I looked at her record, she's 42. WTAF is going on here.

If she has a disability of some sort, she HAS to tell me up front, like, is she trying to get a civil rights thing going here? I can't have someone who needs her mom to review her forms working at a DAYCARE, as a care giver.

I called her most recent employers and they said she was able to be rehired. (That's all they can usually say) I also called her personal references and they all seemed good. We did 3 working interviews last week. I don't understand.

mmo2112 · January 2015

GirPipley said:

So... I just spoke with my head girl, and she told me that yesterday, new girl called her mom at break and was asking her mom how to phase an email about being paid on Monday. She also asked my head if she could take the employment forms home so her parents could review them. #:-S Oh, and I looked at her record, she's 42. []

GirPipley · January 2015

I don't know why that smilie came up...

Twinteriscoming · January 2015

I can't wait till you send her the adios email. Just sounds crazy to me! I have no idea what her deal is. So weird!

finchfeeder80 · January 2015

@girlpipley Wow, if those aren't some red flags, I don't know what is! I'm 34 and have been filling out my own tax paperwork for jobs since I was 16. Oh, and that hypothetical email..... the emailing in general. Why can't she just come to you, or the head person and just ask? There are so many things here that I just don't like. I'm so sorry.

It is extremely odd that she was so normal seeming during the interviews and now she's just falling apart. What a strange situation.

staciecoffey · January 2015

@GirPipley‌, WTAF?! I see one big red flag over this girl... I'm 23 and have more sense than to take time off to fill out forms...they take 20 minutes too. I'm not a business owner but my dad is and he has a 0 bull shit policy when it comes to that kind of nonsense. I think firing her would be the best choice in the long run, even if it puts you in a bit of jam next week.

MamaBish · January 2015

UGH! She would be out immediately. Or, you could just keep her around until you find someone else. That is beyond unprofessional and there is no way I would deal with it. I wouldn't even feel badly about letting her go.

mamalmd · January 2015

Agree with others...what a ridiculous excuse. Completely rude of her to not give any notice either (30 minutes, really!?).

ktbear9512 · January 2015

Agree with the others that her behavior is unacceptable. If you have 30 days leeway, can you use the next 27 to keep looking for a suitable replacement? Or would you rather cut ties now?

GirPipley · January 2015

ktbear9512 said:
Agree with the others that her behavior is unacceptable. If you have 30 days leeway, can you use the next 27 to keep looking for a suitable replacement? Or would you rather cut ties now?

I'm cutting ties now. I sent her an email around 9am saying that her absence is not excused, and spelled out (once again) my expectations of employees. Her response (at 12:35) was "I decided to come in today" um.... Wow. I'm sooooo confused here! She seems so normal.

I emailed one of my clients who is a teacher and hoping she has some substitute friends. If not, I'll suck it up and pay the insane hourly rate for the on call people.

honeybunches101 · January 2015

Definitely let her go. She has been there three days and is already causing you problems, there's no way this will be an isolated incident. I used to work for a temp agency that supplied lawyers to law firms for temp projects. We had a zero tolerance policy for this type of thing. It's one thing if she had a medical emergency, but there's no way she was actually filling out forms. She probably wanted to get a head start on the weekend and thought you were desperate enough to let her get away with it. Or go on another job interview. She sounds crazy, full of drama, and not the kind of person you want to have responsible for a bunch of tiny kids.

I'm so glad you and the babies are doing better, you've been on my mind lately!

sammyca · January 2015

She sounds like a nightmare! Wishing you lots of luck with finding a replacement ASAP!

alygator11687 · January 2015

GirPipley said:

ktbear9512 said:
Agree with the others that her behavior is unacceptable. If you have 30 days leeway, can you use the next 27 to keep looking for a suitable replacement? Or would you rather cut ties now?
I'm cutting ties now. I sent her an email around 9am saying that her absence is not excused, and spelled out (once again) my expectations of employees. Her response (at 12:35) was "I decided to come in today" um.... Wow. I'm sooooo confused here! She seems so normal.

I emailed one of my clients who is a teacher and hoping she has some substitute friends. If not, I'll suck it up and pay the insane hourly rate for the on call people.

Wait I'm confused... If she went into work, wouldn't head girl have said something? Can you verify her presence? Bitch better not be lying about being at work.

I'd pay the insane hourly rate for the other subs. At least they would be reliable/not wishy-washy...

neongreen · January 2015

If she's causing you this much of a headache three days in, it's never going to get better. Never. I hope you can find some reliable subs, but if not, I'd suck it up and pay the temp fees for a little while. Your health (and that of your boys) come first, and one of the things I've learned over the years is that whenever possible, paying a little bit more money to save yourself from stress is usually worth it.

TheAlmostMom · January 2015

Ughhh that sucks!!! My mom runs a daycare too- and those ratios are noooo joke. I say term her. Its not even a real day 3 yet and she is already calling out?? and not even with a legitimate "I have a temp over 100 and legally I cant come in and expose a room full of children" She sounds like she has pretty poor judgement which, honestly, I wouldn't want in a daycare setting. I hope you have good luck finding a new replacement! KUP!

GirPipley · January 2015

Just got a text that she JUST showed up. I'm so fucking confused. I told her not to come in, I am so confused. We close in an hour, why would she show ip

GirPipley · January 2015

jenniebird327 said:

GirPipley said:
Just got a text that she JUST showed up. I'm so fucking confused. I told her not to come in, I am so confused. We close in an hour, why would she show ip
I'd go there or call and tell her to leave. Holy weird.

I can't go there, I'm at the hospital, but my manager said she told her 3 times that she can leave, and she won't be paid for today. I am so confused.

MamaBish · January 2015

GirPipley said:

Just got a text that she JUST showed up. I'm so fucking confused. I told her not to come in, I am so confused. We close in an hour, why would she show ip

To save her job because she realized you weren't having it.

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