fighting sleep ... cry it out?

Lilwatz · January 2015

Jumping in...splash!

In terms of CIO, I am not doing that. Someone bought me Baby Wise for my shower (actually 2 people did!) and said it was a godsend for them. I read a few chapters, but didn't finish (mostly laziness). I know they have revised and I didn't read it all, but nowhere did I see CIO in there. It said to feed your baby sooner than the proposed schedule if they cued. Again, I am not doing it and didn't read it all so I really don't know.

But, what I actually came to post was I wonder if the people on feeding schedules are not EBF. I say this because, as I write too many places on TB, we had a very rocky start to breastfeeding due to LO being slightly premature and a tongue tie. This forced us to EP for a bit and supplement with formula. LO couldn't even really latch at one point without getting super pissed from the difficulty of trying. Because of this it was not a positive experience for her. I wonder if because she didn't get the same type of comfort and bonding during the bottle feeding (she certainly got some as I did it skin to skin) she came back when she was hungry not before? She has been a 3 hour eater largely since birth. I cannot think of a time that she has cued anything like cluster feeding--unless I am completely misreading her. It may just be my baby, but she really does largely eat on a schedule. Having said that, she sometimes cues after 2 or 4 hours (or anything in between), but I almost could set a clock by when she cues. She's been breastfeeding with supplemented bottles for 3 weeks now and it hasn't changed. Again, just speculating but I wonder if the bottle feeding from the beginning versus the breast made an impact in her schedule. Or maybe it's just her!

kstirton · January 2015

We are ebf here. Still eating every 3 hrs. But, if she cues sooner we eat then. Like, 2.5 hrs. She gets a big enough feeding each time to last her at least that long. If its sooner then 2 hrs then its something else.

Lilwatz · January 2015

Yeah, maybe that is what I was trying to ask with the EBF or not question. Maybe because I have been burned before (thought she was eating fine, but getting no milk in the beginning), I feel like with BFing I never know how much she is getting. but with bottle feeding I KNOW she ate 3 oz. Maybe that fills her longer? Maybe all babies are different, too...

howin23 · January 2015

@Becks517 @lizgrace03 @ClrkKntismyAE @jac409
Not sure what Baby Wise is, so we're def not using that approach. Our LO does four hours without much trouble actually and is gaining weight well. We certainly don't let her cry it out, or really cry much at all (other than during changing). She doesn't usually start to get hungry until around 3 hours and 45 min during the day and then will feed for a while (both sides).

Our big challenge with crying was getting her to fall asleep at night and nap during the day, and she'd cry a ton even if we had just fed and burped her and even while we held and rocked her. Now with the schedule she goes to sleep with much less fanfare and is much calmer during her awake time. I'm not saying it works for every baby, just that it has helped us a ton.

Edit to add: If LO gets hungry early, we will of course feed her, but will then try to do a full feed at that point rather than just a small snack. We're not letting her go hungry.

Also, I EBF but I have a pretty good idea of how many ounces each breast produces per hour based on time of day, and I usually pump to empty after she nurses, so I have a decent idea of how much she eats at each feeding.

Maelara · January 2015

AmyG* said:

jlk6 said:

I don't think she meant that daycare would intentionally make her baby CIO but that with 3 or 4 babies to one provider, that there could be times when 2 or more of the babies are crying and one has to wait while the other baby is being fed or rocked to sleep or whatever.

this. its the same when you have multiple children of your own to care for. Someone at some point in time is going to have to wait. You learn to prioritize needs. Whomever's needs do not need immediate attention has to wait. Its just how it is.
Yeah and at daycare just like at home it should be the caregiver juggling needs with bobodybgettingbup to full blown cry scream fest in order to get their needs met. I've seen daycare with 1 baby in a swing With a caregiver in front of the swing in a chair holding two fussy babes and trying to comfort the one in the swing too. She was pulling bout all the tricks rotating them Arians so ever babe got held and patted and fed and burped and such. Every baby got some attention nobody was alone and crying in a crib and everyone settled down and she got every baby to sleep and in their cribs. It was a reminder that we don't pay daycare workers enough! daycare shouldn't be leaving any baby alone in their crib crying without trying to hussle over there to see what the problem is and give a kind word a song or a shush and a pacifier in between caring for everyone else in the room. Yeah there are some times they cry for a minute but it shouldn't be long.

I only have two at home and the reality is that this doesn't always work. If I'm changing my oldests bum and A decides to have a screaming fest, well, she's going to be left to scream until I'm done changing my oldest and have washed my hands. I'm not leaving an 18 month old to fall off of the change table to run to the swing to put a pacifier in A's mouth.

missnacholover · January 2015

Shit, Claire has shower radar. EVERY time I get in the shower, she starts crying within 5 minutes. I hurry to get out, but it's not like I leap out of the shower soaking wet, shampoo in her hair, to see what's up. I know she's in a safe place and she'll be OK for a few minutes while I finish up.

But, it does stink to think about how she will have to share attention with 3 other babies at daycare, but she'll be OK.

Lilwatz · January 2015

AmyG* said:

I do want to mention that it's ok and good even for a baby to "snack" in between meals. How would you feel of you were hustbablittke bit hungry or just wanted a drink and someone made you sit down to a full meal every time and encouraged you to clean your plate? That's encouraging overeating and teaching babe to look at the clock for when they should eat rather than listening to their own hunger. That is suggested to be a large part of the obesity epidemic in the us. Large meals far apart are not good for anyone. Frequent small meals are better for your metabolism and healthy weight for life.

I guess my concern is that she doesn't cue for it before 21/2 -3 hours. I always try to feed on demand, but if she's not demanding it...is it still bad for me to just give full meals?

lizgrace03 · January 2015

lissydee said:

Maelara said:

AmyG* said:

lissydee said:

jlk6 said:

I don't think she meant that daycare would intentionally make her baby CIO but that with 3 or 4 babies to one provider, that there could be times when 2 or more of the babies are crying and one has to wait while the other baby is being fed or rocked to sleep or whatever.

this. its the same when you have multiple children of your own to care for. Someone at some point in time is going to have to wait. You learn to prioritize needs. Whomever's needs do not need immediate attention has to wait. Its just how it is.
Yeah and at daycare just like at home it should be the caregiver juggling needs with bobodybgettingbup to full blown cry scream fest in order to get their needs met.

I've seen daycare with 1 baby in a swing With a caregiver in front of the swing in a chair holding two fussy babes and trying to comfort the one in the swing too. She was pulling bout all the tricks rotating them Arians so ever babe got held and patted and fed and burped and such. Every baby got some attention nobody was alone and crying in a crib and everyone settled down and she got every baby to sleep and in their cribs.

It was a reminder that we don't pay daycare workers enough!

daycare shouldn't be leaving any baby alone in their crib crying without trying to hussle over there to see what the problem is and give a kind word a song or a shush and a pacifier in between caring for everyone else in the room. Yeah there are some times they cry for a minute but it shouldn't be long.

I only have two at home and the reality is that this doesn't always work. If I'm changing my oldests bum and A decides to have a screaming fest, well, she's going to be left to scream until I'm done changing my oldest and have washed my hands. I'm not leaving an 18 month old to fall off of the change table to run to the swing to put a pacifier in A's mouth.

touché.

There is a huge difference between purposely leaving a baby to cry to get them on a "schedule" and having them cry out of matter of necessity. You simply cannot be multiple places at once and only have so many hands/arms to offer in a particular moment in time when you have multiple kiddos to look after. If one kiddo has been fed, burped, changed and soothed and is still crying for whatever [unknown] reason and another is needing one of the above then the one's who's basic needs have already been met has to wait a bit. There is enough parental and caregiver guilt to go around...lets not dish more out when it isn't really needed. Sometimes babies cry for unexplained reasons, even when given all the attention in the world, and it still does a lick of difference. Baby will survive though and so will mom, dad, caregiver if they just cut themselves slack every now and again.

FWIW, I am totes again CIO. I am only responding to the bit about worrying about your baby crying when at day care. Its going to happen. It just is. But it doesnt necessairly mean that your child and their needs are being neglected.

------- qbf

This is why I cannot imagine having more than one LO to take care of at a time and my hat goes off to all of you doing it.

Seriously, I respect moms (and dads) so much more now than I did before giving birth. I have one "easy" baby and I feel so overwhelmed all the time.

Maelara · January 2015

lissydee said:

Maelara said:

AmyG* said:

jlk6 said:

I don't think she meant that daycare would intentionally make her baby CIO but that with 3 or 4 babies to one provider, that there could be times when 2 or more of the babies are crying and one has to wait while the other baby is being fed or rocked to sleep or whatever.

this. its the same when you have multiple children of your own to care for. Someone at some point in time is going to have to wait. You learn to prioritize needs. Whomever's needs do not need immediate attention has to wait. Its just how it is.
Yeah and at daycare just like at home it should be the caregiver juggling needs with bobodybgettingbup to full blown cry scream fest in order to get their needs met. I've seen daycare with 1 baby in a swing With a caregiver in front of the swing in a chair holding two fussy babes and trying to comfort the one in the swing too. She was pulling bout all the tricks rotating them Arians so ever babe got held and patted and fed and burped and such. Every baby got some attention nobody was alone and crying in a crib and everyone settled down and she got every baby to sleep and in their cribs. It was a reminder that we don't pay daycare workers enough! daycare shouldn't be leaving any baby alone in their crib crying without trying to hussle over there to see what the problem is and give a kind word a song or a shush and a pacifier in between caring for everyone else in the room. Yeah there are some times they cry for a minute but it shouldn't be long.

I only have two at home and the reality is that this doesn't always work. If I'm changing my oldests bum and A decides to have a screaming fest, well, she's going to be left to scream until I'm done changing my oldest and have washed my hands. I'm not leaving an 18 month old to fall off of the change table to run to the swing to put a pacifier in A's mouth.

touché.

There is a huge difference between purposely leaving a baby to cry to get them on a "schedule" and having them cry out of matter of necessity. You simply cannot be multiple places at once and only have so many hands/arms to offer in a particular moment in time when you have multiple kiddos to look after. If one kiddo has been fed, burped, changed and soothed and is still crying for whatever [unknown] reason and another is needing one of the above then the one's who's basic needs have already been met has to wait a bit. There is enough parental and caregiver guilt to go around...lets not dish more out when it isn't really needed. Sometimes babies cry for unexplained reasons, even when given all the attention in the world, and it still does a lick of difference. Baby will survive though and so will mom, dad, caregiver if they just cut themselves slack every now and again.

FWIW, I am totes again CIO. I am only responding to the bit about worrying about your baby crying when at day care. Its going to happen. It just is. But it doesnt necessairly mean that your child and their needs are being neglected.

Exactly! When multiple children are involved, someone is going to cry and you will get to them as fast as you can but the needs come before the wants. This doesn't mean your kid is CIO.

beckerji · January 2015

I'm feeling very fortunate because my LO is consistently going to sleep between 8:30-9:00pm. I have found that I have to very consistent with her routine though. First change her diaper, then nurse/burp, swaddle, and turn on white noise. If she's not completly asleep when i lay her in the crib then I'll offer her a pacifier and that does the trick. I can't go out of order though and if I skip even one thing I basically have to start over.

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