NBR: Attn: Lawyers and HR peeps- Is this considered illegal?

StephanieLBerg · January 2015

To make a long story short, my husband was released from his job today, after being told on Wednesday that he was one of their best employees, for supposedly talking too much. He showed them the signed affidavit that says he was allowed to text me and only me because I was pregnant and he needed to make sure things were kosher with me. He and his bosses all signed it as a condition of his hire. So this "talking too much" excuse is bullshit, but that's not my issue.

This morning we discovered his car had blown a radiator hose and coolant leaked everywhere, so I had to take him to work. A coworker offered to drive him home as I was going to be in the middle of meeting with a new potential client. When they released him, there was 10 minutes left on the clock. He came in, grabbed his stuff, and went back outside and stood by his coworkers car. Well, his two bosses then run up to the coworker giving him a ride home and ask that he go and let my husband into his car because they, quote, "are afraid that he will come back into the warehouse and start hurting people"

My husband is not a violent man, he has never raised his voice to his superiors, never got angry about anything, hasn't given them any reason to think or even say that, and his fellow coworkers all back him up on that. The thing that bothers me about this is, there was absolutely no reason for his bosses to say that about him, muchless to a fellow employee. My question is, isn't the fact that they said something like this to his coworker, illegal? Isn't this considered slander and defamation in the workplace?

He is really upset about this and is wondering what implications it could have on future employment prospects, regardless of whether or not he puts them down as a work reference. I want to stop any and all future attacks from them because they have gone far beyond legal behavior, I mean blatant sexual harassment on some of their female employees, as well as illegally withheld wages from other employees among other things. I want to put a stop to their bullshit before it can go any farther.

So, do we have a case here? Especially with a witness to whom the comment was made to? Or is this a lost cause?

chickyclg · January 2015

I'm not a lawyer, but when I used to manage a store full of people we were trained to walk terminated employees out and watch for them to leave. It can be a safety issue to the employees, some people are fine after termination others go crazy. The laws may vary from state to state but personally I think the comment was probably made in bad taste, but I think it is a lost cause.

jeanzcarol · January 2015

I managed a business for years and the pp is right, there's no problem making sure terminated employees are off the premises. Some really lose their shit and it is always the ones you think won't.

The comment wasn't made to potential employers or to someone thinking about hiring your husband so it doesn't have any direct impact on his prospects.

As for the other stuff you listed, the behavior wasn't done to you or your husband so you don't have any standing to do anything about it.

I'd chalk it all up to a super unfortunate way to lose one's job. Especially right before your due. I'm sorry this happened to you guys but I'd say you're wasting energy pursuing anything legal. That said, I'm not a lawyer, and I only know what you wrote here about your situation.

StephanieLBerg · January 2015

I figured as much. Seems to be the way our luck goes. Happy New Year to us! :-w And I wasn't trying to bring in the other incidents that didn't directly happen to him, I was just saying that this company doesn't seem to care whether or not they break the law, even in the most inappropriate of ways. And it wasn't that he was refusing to leave the buidling, he walked outside and stayed there without a fight, no fuss, nothing. The comment was totally out of the blue, rude, and uncalled for. I hope he finds something soon or else we may find ourselves in hot water again.....I was really hoping 2015 was going to be a better year, but today has pretty much shattered all hope of that. With any luck, I am just being pessimistic and him getting fired is really a blessing in disguise. But with our due date so close, and bills piling on because its the first of the month, I really can't see how it could be...... :-<

firelizard83 · January 2015

I was fired and felt offended when they treated me like that too, but I understand why and I know there's no recourse for it. The place I was at was also full of shady, illegal work practices, but I had no real proof of anything and would have come off as a vindictive ex-employee if I tried anything, so I let it go. I found a great job 2 weeks later and have never looked back, so just keep your chins up and have him get back out there ASAP! Hopefully things work out great for you guys!

CogDis · January 2015

Sorry to hear this happened to you and your DH. That's an awful loss to deal with at anytime but especially difficult at the start of a new year and when you're so close to having your LO. FX it ends up being a blessing in disguise, like you said.

erobbins09 · January 2015

I know it's tough and the timing sucks but there is no reason this should dictate how your entire year will go...

I mean if the work environment was that bad maybe this was the kick in the pants needed to make 2015 the best.. New job.. New baby... I see the potential for a lot of good things ahead. You absolutely have a right to be upset by the news but to take a it to "lawsuit" territory and "my whole year is shattered" seems a bit much. Focus on what you can control...

toadandbug12 · January 2015

I agree with @erobbins09. It totally sucks, but I'm a firm believer everything happens for a reason. Maybe the next opportunity your H gets will be the best one ever! Just take a deep breath and put all this energy into finding some new opportunities.

cls78 · January 2015

We're you guys texting to chit chat or if there was an actual emergency?

There are times when my husband is on certain jobs and talking/texting is grounds for termination due to safety reasons. He tells me to text/call only if it is a actual emergency and lets the company he is contracting for know I am pregnant.

I am wondering how often you guys were talking while he was at work.

dreemkin84 · January 2015

The hospital I work at has security escort you out of the building after you collect your personal belongings. I've seen it before. It's sad and I'm sorry to hear about your DH. Hopefully the month will turn around for you guys!

chicagojackie · January 2015

Not an attorney but I do manage a staff and hire-fire.

@jeanzcarol‌ is 100% right--it is always the people you think that are calm that go batshit on everyone. They usually don't have violent tendencies or history of workplace violence.

The cellphone thing has become a real hot button issue. My staff has to put them away when they are on the clock. They may use them in the break room when clocked out. I don't pay people to facebook. If there is an emergency their family may call our office and we will immediately bring that person to the phone. Or their family may contact me directly and I will help. Is my policy fair? Not fair? Doesn't matter. You want to work for me you sign it on day one.

It is hard to pin down an employer on that stuff particularly if H signed some handbooks or standards of behavior or policies when he was hired. They can fire him for a lot of reasons.

Also you are not at work with him and you don't know what he's like at work. Of course he's not going to say he wastes time or doesn't get things done-and some employees don't realize they are not effective or are time ($$$) wasters.

jaztastic · January 2015

It seems that you two have the worst luck ever when it comes to employment. Really hope this pattern changes, you know since a baby is on the way and all.

MapleMomma · January 2015

HR gal chiming in to say that the advice you've already been given is correct. It sucks alot I know, but chin up and do the best you can!

jennjilljo · January 2015

Not an attorney but I do manage a staff and hire-fire. @jeanzcarol‌ is 100% right--it is always the people you think that are calm that go batshit on everyone. They usually don't have violent tendencies or history of workplace violence. The cellphone thing has become a real hot button issue. My staff has to put them away when they are on the clock. They may use them in the break room when clocked out. I don't pay people to facebook. If there is an emergency their family may call our office and we will immediately bring that person to the phone. Or their family may contact me directly and I will help. Is my policy fair? Not fair? Doesn't matter. You want to work for me you sign it on day one. It is hard to pin down an employer on that stuff particularly if H signed some handbooks or standards of behavior or policies when he was hired. They can fire him for a lot of reasons. Also you are not at work with him and you don't know what he's like at work. Of course he's not going to say he wastes time or doesn't get things done-and some employees don't realize they are not effective or are time ($$$) wasters.

***It's my text in a box***

DH isn't even allowed to have a phone at work. Phone stays in car and he goes in building.

chicagojackie · January 2015

@jennjilljo‌ couldn't resist

jennjilljo · January 2015

You get me @chicagojackie

PeanettyGoodness · January 2015

I know it sucks that he lost his job, but if the place was that bad, maybe it was for the best.

My hubby and I went through something similar right before Christmas. He pulled a muscle at work, like severely pulled it and had to ask to go to the hospital. Strike one, his manager would not let him fill out an incident report before he left and strike two, his manager did not offer to call an ambulance(this part will make sense in a moment.) After my husband was seen at the hospital and had a follow up appointment the next day, he was told to be off work for two weeks to heal, as his job required a lot of bending, lifting, and twisting. As he was trying to get back to work, he got a call that his workman's comp was denied, as his manager was claiming he didn't get hurt there and was having chest pains instead of abdominal pains. If he was really having chest pains, his manager should have called an ambulance and not let him drive himself to the hospital.

Long story short, he ended up looking for another job, as they put us between a rock and a hard spot, because he couldn't go back without a doctor's release and he couldn't see the doctor they wanted him to because of not allowing his workman's comp. He got another job and is much happier now, especially since it's a much safer environment.

Neesey · January 2015

Nevada is a right-to-work state too. They can terminate his employment for almost no reason at all.

chicagojackie · January 2015

@dorothygale01‌

Mommalawyer · January 2015

@StephanieLBerg‌ - Resident lawyer here, who doesn't practice employment law, but PP are correct. 1) Most places are right to work states. They can fire you for whatever reason they want. It super sucks they are claiming they are firing him for something that they contracted to not fire him for, but I suspect that if the issue was pushed, they'd come up with another reason anyway. 2) People at my office are supervised by law enforcement, or someone else with a gun while they pack their things in a box. Then they are escorted out. This is common practice. 3) Comments by employer are shitty, but where are your damages? Comments were made to employees, not potential employers. Comments have not done any damage to him. By their very nature, slander & defamation lawsuits are very hard to prove. And determining damages are even harder. Sadly, being an asshole isn't against the law. Sorry for your situation. Hope things get better.

@PeanettyGoodness‌ - Your husband needs a WC lawyer. Seriously. Guaranteed if he lawyered up, that shiz wouldn't happen. Most of the time you need a WC lawyer cause you'll just get railroaded....

Maple403 · January 2015

chicagojackie said:

@dorothygale01‌

@chicagojackie wins today for bringing in Napoleon Dynamite. I am going to watch that movie now.

MapleMomma · January 2015

@dorothygale01‌ I'm glad you said what most of us were thinking.

acpruchnik · January 2015

And now we wait!

modernfairytale8709 · January 2015

dorothygale01 said:
No. Just no.

It sucks he lost his job (though I'd wager his company was okay with pregnancy texting and he likely overdid it with chattin with you) and it sucks his feelings got hurt.

But SWEET JESUS no you shouldn't sue. This is the reason people laugh at Americans for being an overly litigious society. People loses their jobs every day for even less reasons - especially in an at-will state - and they put on their big boy panties and move on. It's standard operating procedure to escort fired people from the premises - he is no speshul snauxflayke here.

It's honeslty mind boggling to me that your first thought is to sue a company for doing things well within their legal rights.

You guys have shitty "luck" with jobs. I'm not trying to be mean here, but I honestly have to wonder at this point if it is luck or your attitudes. When the first thought is to sue, MY first thought is that you are behaving in an entitled fashion that cannot remotely come off well to your employers, and I wonder if that's something they see in you from the start. "I'm special and deserve special treatment" is THE fastest way to firing in my estimation. I hope it works out for you but you both need to seriously think about how you behave in the workplace since now you have a kid coming to depend on you for care and shelter.

All of this. For real.

And, as pp stated, if you work in at at-will employment state, the company wouldn't even need a reason for termination.

StephanieLBerg · January 2015

kkleigh10 said:
Wait so does the reason for termination (talking too much) refer to texting you? That's the only legal standing you could have, if he was cleared to text you before he was even hired. How many times a day do you guys text??

Maybe 3 times and it was always on his 15 minute breaks and 30 minute lunch.

chicagojackie · January 2015

Three times does not a termination make even at the super anal Chicagojackie place of employment. We are missing information and so are you.

StephanieLBerg · January 2015

And my first thought didn't go to suing. Someone in his work had mentioned that theu thought it was illegal for them to say that about him to another employee. So I was just curious. Since they have shitty business practices and all, I was just hoping to put a a stop to their bullying and all. And I am mot saying that the year is totally ruined, just that it got off to a shitty start and it sucks. I guess I should have seen the vipers coming though. I guess I deserve that much. Thanks for all the advice. He has applied for unemployment, but I do keep my fingers crossed that he finds something else. Idk how he is in the workplace, he may feel self entitled and put off that aire about him, I have no idea. As for me, the only problem I have ever had, aside Walmart, was my boss from this year and she has since ceased fire since Thanksgiving. But that's about it. Anywho, hope you ladies are having a good day and again thanks for all the advice :-)

schnitz9 · January 2015

Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?

thegoodpotato · January 2015

schnitz9 said:

Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?

My husband doesn't talk to me at all during his work day, even when I'm at home with the kids on mat leave. I was always jealous of my friends whose husbands would call to see how their days are going. DH is very serious at work, and thinks its unprofessional to call home during work hours. Guess that's why he's destined for management and I'm not.

jennjilljo · January 2015

schnitz9 said:
Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?

He calls like 2-3 times a week to ask about dinner, let me know if he plans on stopping somewhere or just to check on me.

chicagojackie · January 2015

Also this just for the lulz

misshart00 · January 2015

thegoodpotato said:

schnitz9 said:

Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?

My husband doesn't talk to me at all during his work day, even when I'm at home with the kids on mat leave. I was always jealous of my friends whose husbands would call to see how their days are going. DH is very serious at work, and thinks its unprofessional to call home during work hours. Guess that's why he's destined for management and I'm not.

My H is an audio engineer. If he's doing a show, I don't talk to him at all (though I may text him my random thoughts without expecting him to get back to me). Maintenance days, I talk to him more.

CatLadyTX · January 2015

I talk to DH a few times a day, but his job isn't heavily structured and he often has free time. If he is busy, I may not hear from him until he is on the way home.

jaztastic · January 2015

schnitz9 said:

Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?

DH works at a jail, so no phones are even allowed in the building, but he also works 3rd shift so I'm sleep anyway. But during the day we chat off and on, because we haven't seen nor talked for a while. On an average day we may talk 2 times while I'm at work, some days more. But I have one of those jobs where I could sit in my phone all day if I wanted to.

thegoodpotato · January 2015

misshart00 said:

thegoodpotato said:

schnitz9 said:

Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?

My husband doesn't talk to me at all during his work day, even when I'm at home with the kids on mat leave. I was always jealous of my friends whose husbands would call to see how their days are going. DH is very serious at work, and thinks its unprofessional to call home during work hours. Guess that's why he's destined for management and I'm not.

My H is an audio engineer. If he's doing a show, I don't talk to him at all (though I may text him my random thoughts without expecting him to get back to me). Maintenance days, I talk to him more.

Mine's just a civil engineer, so he doesn't need quiet.

seamonster said:

Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?
We work together, but usually only talk to each other to get lunch or work related things.

Actually, now that I'm back at my "regular" job, I work in the cubicle next to my husband's. And I still don't talk to him all day. We try to maintain a professional distance from each other.

toadandbug12 · January 2015

I don't talk to FI at all during the workday. There is not much to talk about. I'd rather wait until we got home and got to chit chat over dinner about how our days were. Sometimes I'll text him random things to make him smile during the day, but I never expect him to answer back. I get a random "I love you" or "thinking of you" text occasionally... and it's nice, but it's never a full sentence convo. Now that I am coming to the end of my pregnancy, I told him he has to check his phone more often in case of an emergency, but we are both not really phone people.

crystalw88 · January 2015

I just want to point out that lawyers have fees...usually pretty hefty ones. If you're hard up for money now, save the money you would have spent on a lawyer and buy, you know, diapers or something practical.

Mommalawyer · January 2015

crystalw88 said:
I just want to point out that lawyers have fees...usually pretty hefty ones. If you're hard up for money now, save the money you would have spent on a lawyer and buy, you know, diapers or something practical.

Great point. However, most civil attorneys work on a % that they get you in the end. If they don't settle or win, they don't get paid. Which means they are very, very picky on the cases that they take.....

crabigator · January 2015

schnitz9 said:
Am I the only one here who barely ever talks to my DH while we are at work? I mean I would call him or text if there was an emergency, but 3 times a day? If nothing's wrong why can't it wait til you get home?

I'm on the other end of the spectrum: my husband and I have always had desk jobs so we almost always have a long gmail chat going all day. And now we both work from home (his office and mine are on different floors though), so we chat in person whenever he comes down for coffee too, since my office is right next to the kitchen. And we lunch together about 2x a week.

And we sound disgusting now, eh?

To be fair: the conversation is most commonly about our fantasy football lineups or to share funny links we found online. Nothing particularly romantic.

nbad311 · January 2015

I'm not sure if it's a company thing or state thing, but lots of places have "at will" employment which means the company can fire you for any reason/no reason at all (except when it it discriminatory, that's still illegal). Which sucks for employees but at the same time, sucks for a company when an employee can similarly up and leave with no notice and for no reason. So unless there was something illegally - fishy about the firing (it was his age or race), I don't think you can take legal action. Sorry it happened to you guys and I hope the best for yall!

SaraL1175 · January 2015

As another resident lawyer (but not employment law) I wanted to point out that many lawyers take civil cases for a % PLUS expenses. Their expenses come first, then their % next... Someone I knew was a named defendant I n a BS employment case against the employer because she was in the chain of command. The company settled for $100k after over a year of back and forth to make it go away (liability insurance usually pays these things BTW). After court expenses and other expenses, plus the lawyer's %, the plaintiff ended up with very little money. She also ended up with a track record of being a litigious employee (something prospective employers can and do look up, and something that does make them leery of hiring).

Edited/clarifying my acquaintance was a defendant, not a plaintiff.

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NBR: Attn: Lawyers and HR peeps- Is this considered illegal?

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