"Home birth is selfish."

2junebabies · October 2014

Hi ladies. Just thought I would share this gem. I have a friend who works and has a nanny watch her daughter during the day. I have become good friends with the nanny. The nanny is very into natural birth and is training to become a doula. When she has children some day, she hopes to have a home water birth. My friend knows all of this, but they were having a discussion recently and my friend told the nanny that she thinks women who plan home births are selfish because they are only thinking of their own comfort and not considering that the baby might need emergency personnel available. The nanny was offended and told her that in many other countries home birth is the norm and that it has better outcomes than hospital births, but my friend just brushed it off. She is pregnant and due next month and she has scheduled an ultrasound at all of her remaining appointments so she can bond with the baby. She is not high-risk, she just wants to see the baby. That's her choice, but it's so unnecessary. Anyway, I just wanted to vent about it here. It also annoyed me because my friend knows we are planning a home birth and when we told her she acted excited like she thought it was great. Guess she really thinks I'm selfish.

Would anyone like to share other ridiculous comments you've heard about home birth or natural birth? Just for fun.

jennypolkadots · October 2014

I don't get many rude comments, more just eye rolls like "oh yeah... we'll see how that works out for you!" I've had several people say to just wait that I will be begging for the epidural. It makes me laugh because I won't have access to pain medicine so I can't beg for something that isn't there. We really keep our birth plans tight lipped because most people don't understand our choices and I've noticed that many women get defensive of their own choices for no reason. Birth is just such a personal experience, no one size fits all box... so I'm finding it best to file it in the same category as politics and religion as far as conversation topics lol

A few weeks ago we were celebrating a birthday with family and they started talking about birth stories. SIL commented on how she made them bathe her son with soap before she held him because he was "so slimey and covered in gross stuff". DH laughed and told them that it's called vernix and we won't be washing our baby for several days after birth because the vernix is so good for the skin. Everyone looked at us like a couple of freaks. Oh and the time I explained that we are delivering the placenta into a bowl and keeping it attached for about an hour after birth... that was interesting.

I guess judgement goes both ways though. When I hear their birth stories I pretty much cringe and wish I could tell them what they don't know. But oh well! We all make different choices for different reasons!

misterdonut · October 2014

Ugh! That's judgmental. I think they need to do their research. Assuming something did go wrong at a home birth and a hospital was nearby, it's not like a complication immediately jeopardizes the baby/mom. There's usually time for these things. And, she's low risk!

I've been getting judgment left and right. Like the previous poster, lots of eye rolls and yeah rights. Sometimes I can shrug it off and sometimes it effects me (those hormonal days

when the words of "you're def getting an epi" start to effect me.

Ignore them!!!

2junebabies · October 2014

@hikerlady I'm sorry to hear that about your mom. Hopefully you will have a wonderful birth and she will understand why you chose that way.

I know that 99% of the skeptics are speaking out of ignorance. Our culture has taught women to think that birth is dangerous and that the hospital is the safest, so I don't fault them completely, I just wish they would do research.

With my first, when we told people we were going to have a natural birth the most common response was "You're crazy!" I even heard that from men. Now that it's the second time around and I have done it, no one will dare tell me I'm crazy and if they did I'd probably tell them to suck it.

Mama-Bear · October 2014

Not sure if I'll even go the Nat. birth route (I've been reconsidering over the past few days - fear I guess), but I told DH that I think a home birth would be neat (laid back, relaxed, not so much poking and prodding). He thinks people would think we're weird. He likes to go with the flow of traffic, so getting him to agree to something "different" can be quite difficult.

painttheair14 · October 2014

I had a long, vent-y response typed out but it was just so angry.

Summary: Other people and their biased opinions can suck it.

2junebabies · October 2014

Aw man, I probably would've enjoyed your angry response. I'm with you!

mrsmopar67 · November 2014

I remember being about 13 and driving through this remote countryside with my grandparents & my grandma pointed out the foundation in a field that was all that was left of her childhood home. She told me she was born at home and I just gasped and thought, "how incredibly feral!" LOL like it was truly one of the most insane things I had ever heard.

My grandma passed away before I got married, but oh how I would love to chat with her today!

People love to spread their fear & ignorance about birth. Not every birth or even anywhere close to every birth is an emergency. Also people do not like to believe that interventions CAN CREATE emergencies which require much more intervention. They like to believe, oh thank The Lord I was at the hospital when my baby started to have heart troubles after 30 hours on pit. I'm sooooo glad I had continuous monitoring. They were able to get me into a csection immediately.

Of course, no one has a crystal ball, but let's say they went into labor spontaneously two days later instead of induction. What is the liklihood of an emergency csection with a spontaneous labor?

painttheair14 · November 2014

Had I been at the hospital, I am 90% sure I would've ended up with a c-section.

I don't want to get into all the details, but it's not that I was in danger or making a risk at home, it's just hospital policies mixed with the fact I would've had an epidural (because I would've caved in) and it was necessary for me to change positions during labor to help progress. At the hospital, I would've been a "failure to progress."

I think my natural home birth was better for me and my baby, thank you very much!

soulcupcake · November 2014

mrsmopar67 said:

I remember being about 13 and driving through this remote countryside with my grandparents & my grandma pointed out the foundation in a field that was all that was left of her childhood home. She told me she was born at home and I just gasped and thought, "how incredibly feral!" LOL like it was truly one of the most insane things I had ever heard. My grandma passed away before I got married, but oh how I would love to chat with her today! People love to spread their fear & ignorance about birth. Not every birth or even anywhere close to every birth is an emergency. Also people do not like to believe that interventions CAN CREATE emergencies which require much more intervention. They like to believe, oh thank The Lord I was at the hospital when my baby started to have heart troubles after 30 hours on pit. I'm sooooo glad I had continuous monitoring. They were able to get me into a csection immediately. Of course, no one has a crystal ball, but let's say they went into labor spontaneously two days later instead of induction. What is the liklihood of an emergency csection with a spontaneous labor?

Is it bad that I often think "You wouldn't have ended up in Y situation if X wasn't part of the picture"? Because I do. It's a logical response to something that is, well, a logical deduction. If there is a higher chance of fetal distress caused by various induction methods, or if mom develops an infection hours after her membranes were ruptured artificially (because the vast majority do not spontaneously rupture) and she eventually needs a c-section, that isn't a case of "birth gone awry." That is a case of interventions created an environment that eventually necessitated more interventions.

Really, the only time "birth gone awry" really means what it means is in situations where something happens out of the blue, without any meddling beforehand -- something that occurs not as a result of something done previously. And I'm very familiar with various situations that apply, but they're rare in normal, physiological birth.

It seems like logic goes out the window when it comes to this topic. When I read about failed inductions or baby being in distress after labor is induced/augmented or baby is "stuck" because it's too big or mom is too small. Did they not stop and consider any other possibilities? Like perhaps the way their labor was managed? That maybe their being confined to the bed (as most are) didn't facilitate optimal fetal positioning during labor? Perhaps baby wasn't in the most optimal position to allow labor to progress, and mom's lack of mobility compounded this? Or that mom pushed on her back, ignoring that thing called gravity, instead of trying different positions that increase the pelvic outlet and aid in baby's descent. I mean, really. These things are just basic and logical, and yet they are often completely ignored.

There are situations where being at the hospital is of top priority, but that applies to the 20% of known high risk patients. But the whole "Thank the gods I was at the hospital when I needed an emergency c-section [after my failed induction/augmentation] or my baby may not have made it!!!" :eye roll:

If one consents to X, Y Z... then they should be prepared for the drawbacks and side effects. Childbirth isn't some inherently risky, unpredictable event. Mammals give birth. We know how to give birth. Complications can arise even in the most ideal of situations, but they happen much, much less frequently in such situations. If I go in consenting to a host of interventions then I can't possibly act surprised when something appears to go wrong or an undesirable symptoms appears. I am intellectually honest enough to know that certain decisions, interventions, come with risks and drawbacks, and to realize that the more you meddle, the higher the risks.

emwithpeanuts · November 2014

Two of my four births were home births. They were awesome and my favorite births. I personally do not care for hospital births but will probably be having one with this one (my 5th) for various reasons. With my first they pushed a c-section because my dr was impatient. I had a perfect v-birth absolutely no tearing. Anyone who tells me home births are selfish or terrible has no idea what they are talking about so I just ignore it.

jennypolkadots · November 2014

mrsmopar67 said:

Also people do not like to believe that interventions CAN CREATE emergencies which require much more intervention. They like to believe, oh thank The Lord I was at the hospital when my baby started to have heart troubles after 30 hours on pit. I'm sooooo glad I had continuous monitoring. They were able to get me into a csection immediately.

Yes! I keep hearing stories like "Thank god I was in the hospital because interventions caused me to need a c-section!" It is so backwards. But I just smile and nod, if I told them what I know I feel like it would devalue their already difficult birth experience. A lot of women need to feel that their bad birth experiences were 100% out of their control. Sometimes true emergencies happen and thank goodness for hospitals and surgery, but it's not a common occurrence. Women in my midwives care have a 3% chance of cesarean, while low risk women with my old OB had a 30% chance.

My SIL is a great example of medical interventions ending in a cesarean. She truly believes her body is incapable of giving birth. Her membranes ruptured at 40 weeks but she didn't go into labor right away. She was immediately admitted and put on pitocin, then given an epi, and other drugs, and given 12 hours to dilate. No bishops score or anything was considered. Then she was rushed in for an emergency c-section with her doctor telling her that her pelvis is too narrow to birth her 6 lb baby, she would never dilate fully, and later that the cord was wrapped around the baby's neck so thank god they did a c-section because you know nuchal cords are death sentences (sarcasm - they are very common). She was so out of it and doesn't remember any of her daughter's birth. She didn't even see her for over an hour afterwards and has had a lot of healing issues, still dealing with pain at the incision site 7 years later. Who knows how different this would have been if she was given 48 hours for labor to get started and encouraged through a natural birth. It may have still ended the same way, I realize, but seeing what she went through makes me so much more sure of our plan.

2junebabies · November 2014

SweetTurnip said:

Well this was full of gross judgments. Why not just let birth be birth, regardless of how it happens. Why judge other mothers for what they choose or how they perceive their own birth? Were you there? Was it your birth? Then why do you care? Not all interventions are evil, they don't all cascade to unnecessary surgery. I had two natural labors that resulted in cesarean birth both times. I personally am one of those icky, dumb people who's glad I had the hospital and surgeon available to me, because I truly don't know what would have happened to me or my kids without the option of a cesarean birth. The judgment goes both ways and it sucks both ways. I had a lot of questions about why I was planning a natural birth out of hospital the first time, why I was planning a vbac vs RCS, and now I feel like I have to justify my birth yet again to people who just decide I must have done something wrong or been brainwashed into interventions that led to surgery.

I'm sorry that you feel judged. I was not trying to say that everyone who has a hospital birth is "dumb" or "icky." My daughter was born in a hospital and we had a pretty good experience. I understand why some women are more comfortable in a hospital and want that medical backup immediately available. I also understand that interventions exist for a reason and that they can be life-saving to some women. What frustrates me is when people are uninformed about home birth and then act like it is an irresponsible choice that does not have the best interests of the child at heart. This is not true. Yes, I was annoyed when I wrote this original post, but I did not mean to come off as judgmental of anyone who chooses a different birth scenario than me. What I am advocating is fully informed choices by people who have all of the information on both sides.

painttheair14 · November 2014

I think that what most of us want (assuming here) is for others to know that they have choices. Whatever choice they make is totally up to them and none of our business. We just want them to be informed!

sschwege · November 2014

I think @paintheair14 put it so well.

It is really hard to hear some women say things like, "Can I refuse X?" or "My doctor won't allow...." There are women out there who don't realize they have a choice, which is really scary to me.

Stephij1 · November 2014

sschwege said:
I think @paintheair14 put it so well.

It is really hard to hear some women say things like, "Can I refuse X?" or "My doctor won't allow...." There are women out there who don't realize they have a choice, which is really scary to me.

This. Every time I hear a woman say, "My Dr won't let me..." without a good medical reason behind it, it makes me stabby. You are an adult and your Dr is not some all-knowing overlord. Of course listening to their advice is good, but making your own decision based on that advice (and research) is much more important.

AppleMomma · November 2014

I've heard so many rude comments about home birth. I don't make rude comments about hospital births to people. It's all about choices available and no one should judge someone else for choosing something they wouldn't. I've had both hospital (pre-e) and home birth, and I would never choose hospital birth for myself because of how long it took me to recover both times, and my 2 babies from hospital births ended up jaundice where my home birther didn't. Go figure...

2junebabies · November 2014

Stephij1 said:

I think @paintheair14 put it so well.

It is really hard to hear some women say things like, "Can I refuse X?" or "My doctor won't allow...." There are women out there who don't realize they have a choice, which is really scary to me.
This. Every time I hear a woman say, "My Dr won't let me..." without a good medical reason behind it, it makes me stabby. You are an adult and your Dr is not some all-knowing overlord. Of course listening to their advice is good, but making your own decision based on that advice (and research) is much more important.

I agree with this so much. So many people treat doctors like they're gods. Yes, they are smart people who are knowledgeable in their field, but you still have to take responsibility for your own medical care. Informed consent only works if you're actually informed.

kateslp · December 2014

I'm so glad that I was lucky enough to have a home birth with family, two midwives, and a doula. What is fascinating is that a highly skilled midwife knows red flags to observe for which would make her want to transfer you to a hospital. I loved giving birth at home

blush64 · December 2014

I agree with PP who said judgments either way are wrong. I think that woman the OP knows should have kept her opinion to herself.

It sounds so strange to complain about being judged as you completely judge someone else. (not everyone here but common with many homebirth and med free birth advocates I know) Not every woman is uninformed if they don't want a med free and/or home birth. It is not automatically ignorance if a woman is afraid of or just doesn't agree with a home birth. It is however rude and wrong if that woman insults someone else.

Choosing a hospital birth, allowing interventions, ending up with a c-section, none of those means a woman is ignorant, fearful of birth or felt she couldn't do it on her own. Being glad you were able to have a c-section is not stupid or uninformed.

I did not fear birth and I completely trust my body but I do not feel comfortable or safe having a home birth. I am aware of the facts. I have gone med free and had an epidural. Some people hate the epidural, some people find it evil. I loved it. Next time I will probably go med free but maybe not. I know women who also loved the epidural and see no reason to feel all the pain if they don't have to. That is just as valid a choice as anything else.

We don't know what goes on during labour and delivery unless we are directly involved. I agree the c-section rate is higher than needed but who are we to decide which were necessary and which were not. No matter how the situation sounds you are viewing it from the outside. In fact, I don't think a c-section is a good choice unless it is required but I would never say anything negative to a woman who chose to have one for no medical reason. (and it does happen)

Things are biased from both sides.

lisalisanorgren · December 2014

Hello! I'm new to the natural birth board but so glad to have found it! We are planning a home birth in May with 2 midwives and a Doula - no family

Really the most ignorant comment I've heard so far came from my best friend when I told her how lucky I felt that my health insurance will give me up to $500 for home birth supplies. Her response?

"What, like a bucket and a mop?"

Honestly. How ignorant. Then I launched in to my spiel about midwives and how they are highly trained medical professionals who come fully equipped with oxygen, piticoin in case of hemorrhage, etc.

I do my best not to be judgmental back when I hear things like that and just calmly explain why I believe this is the best option for me. I also love to throw out the statistic while only 10% or so of women medically need a c-section the rate at the renowned hospital near my house has a nearly 40% rate of c-section.

stahlop · December 2014

With our first, my mom told me I was doing a home birth just to spite her and if the baby died it would be all my fault. Thanks for the support mom. She was much more open to it the second time and now this time around.