The SleepEasy Thread

nunzchucks · December 2014

meg2j said:
Ok, so LO started getting up once a night to eat when she was getting teeth. It's never been a consistent time, but only once. I can't decide if I should try to break this or wait. We are about to start two weeks of travel/guest/interrupted sleep schedule. Would I save myself some grief if I pretty much started over when the crazy is over? Or easier to work on the feed knowing it's very likely we are going to have a major regression?

Personally, I'd get that feed out of there. Then there's no question that any wake ups will just be check ins.

babygabe614 · December 2014

Ugh we are off to a horrible start. I brought up the training to my mom last week because she watches LO during the day and I wanted to be sure she was on board with the nap stuff. That is our biggest hurdle since she only gets up 1x/night around 4:30am right now but naps like shit. Anyways it turned into a big fight (tl;dr my mom is super dramatic). So I dropped it for a bit and figured once I got DH on board with helping me at night, we would start that and do as best we could with the napping. Then mom comes over on Sunday and says "Oh you left that book out so I read it and did the nap stuff Thursday and Friday." Well that's great, but you probably could have MENTIONED that to me on Thursday! Because LO is still getting mixed messages because we weren't doing it because my mom had fought me on it! So Sunday I tried doing the nap schedule and it sucked. Sucked, sucked, sucked. But maybe that's why they say to start with nighttime in the book. Either way now I am just totally frazzled by my mom messing up my starting point, LO is probably confused because half the time her cries are answered and half the time we do checkins, I am totally freaked about weaning the night feeding because even now at 5.5 months and 18 or so lbs she will take a full 5-6oz bottle and sometimes cry for more so I have no idea how we are going to wean her and I basically just want to cry and say screw it and quit before we even start.

nunzchucks · December 2014

@babygabe614‌ it's ok! It's only been three days. S will never remember. Plus, it's really no different than what you've been doing all along - rocking or feeding or bouncing or whatever. You can still start fresh and wean if you're interested.

I don't have the book in front of me, but I think in the example, the kid was taking a 6-8 oz bottle during weaning.

babygabe614 · December 2014

Thanks @nunzchucks‌. That whole situation with my mom had me feeling really defeated. However, tonight DH and I decided we would just start now and stop putting it off. He was actually super supportive which helped a lot. She cried for 16 mins at bedtime but we thankfully only had to do one check in, I did the first one at 5 mins and DH was on his way upstairs to do the second 10 mins later, and he could hear her winding down so he waited and a few seconds later, she was out. Whew. Now hopefully that 330am feed will be equally successful!

katekat8721 · December 2014

babygabe614 said:

Thanks @nunzchucks‌. That whole situation with my mom had me feeling really defeated. However, tonight DH and I decided we would just start now and stop putting it off. He was actually super supportive which helped a lot. She cried for 16 mins at bedtime but we thankfully only had to do one check in, I did the first one at 5 mins and DH was on his way upstairs to do the second 10 mins later, and he could hear her winding down so he waited and a few seconds later, she was out. Whew. Now hopefully that 330am feed will be equally successful!

Good luck tonight mama!

lola4411 · December 2014

hey ladies, i realize this was likely covered 10 pages ago, but i would like to hear how those who are breastfeeding have dealt with engorgement. also, did anyone notice changes in supply? thanks

nunzchucks · December 2014

@lola4411 I was painfully engorged for 3-4 days after fully weaning night feeds. I'm still very full in the morning, but it doesn't hurt. I would not pump because you don't want to signal your body to make more milk.

I did not notice a supply change, but I SAH and nurse somewhat on demand

cece673 · December 2014

Hi guys, just wanted to share my experience with naps for anyone whose LO struggles with staying awake the full 2 hours/2 1/2 hours. My DS was a good napper but would go through phases where he'd wake after only 45 min and cry. Anyway, I started keeping him up the 2 hours and 2 1/2 hours, per the book, and he was clearly overtired and would cry so much and take super short crappy naps but I kept on trucking. After a few days of this I decided to shorten his wake time to even less than what the book says (1.5 before first nap and 1.75 after each of the next two naps), just because I could tell at those times that he wanted to go down. Ever since I switched to those wake times a week ago, he has been taking 1.5-2 hour naps. I've been having to wake him from every nap actually! Just wanted to share this in case anyone else's LO has been struggling too. Sometimes I think it's best to follow their cues rather than follow the book as if it's the bible. Just my two cents.

babygabe614 · December 2014

So last night went pretty well. I woke up a little before my 3:30am alarm and went in to feed LO and she was confused but stayed mostly asleep which was good. She only ate 2oz of the 5oz bottle I had for her and wouldn't take any more when I tried several times, so I put her back to bed. I know the book says to try to get her to finish it an hour later but knowing she doesn't NEED the feed and isn't one to wake up hungry to begin with (she normally won't take a bottle until about 30 mins after she wakes up every morning), I did not try again at 4:30. She slept until 5:51 and just hung out in her crib quietly for 15 minutes. Then we had 24 mins of crying before I got her at 6:30, and I did checkins per the book.

Questions - Since she only ate 2oz, how much should I offer her in the bottle tonight? Originally I was going to go down one oz from last night to 4oz, but should I just offer her 2oz? Also, it says to make up the ounces she "lost" from the nighttime bottle during the day. If she is on formula and solids, how do I go about that? She eats solids about 3x/day in addition to her normal bottles.

I also noticed the check ins really ramp up her crying and just seem to make it worse. I know other people have said this too so please reassure me that doing check ins will get better because it sucks sooo bad for her to be kind of whimpering/crying, and then hear my voice and start getting hysterical again.

nunzchucks · December 2014

@babygabe614‌ check ins did not help DS. We just leave him alone if he wakes. I probably would not have done check ins with her waking only 30 min early as she likely thought you were coming to get her up. (Not a big deal, tho) I really can't speak to the formula volume tho as I have no experience with that.

babygabe614 · December 2014

nunzchucks said:
@babygabe614‌ check ins did not help DS. We just leave him alone if he wakes. I probably would not have done check ins with her waking only 30 min early as she likely thought you were coming to get her up. (Not a big deal, tho) I really can't speak to the formula volume tho as I have no experience with that.

Thanks @nunzchucks‌. That is her normal wake time (somewhere around 545-6am) so if we have the same scenario tomorrow I think she'd do better if I just let her hang by herself until it's time to get up.

Another thing I forgot to mention is when I got her up at 630 she had pooped. So I wonder if that's what caused the crying instead of just being pissed she was awake and no one had come to get her yet. And on that note I hate thinking she sat in a dirty diaper for any amount of time. Anyone else deal with this?

babygabe614 · December 2014

@CAMag I recall someone (maybe it was you, or someone else) also saying that after a few rough mornings, they found that 10.5 hours of sleep worked best for their LO(s) and if that ends up being the case for us too, I have no problem having her get up at 6 instead of 6:30. Especially if it means 30 fewer minutes that she's sitting in a wet/dirty diaper. I will see how she does tomorrow morning and if it's the same deal, we may end up moving to a 6am wakeup.

Ugh, I felt awful when I realized she was upset for more than just the fact I hadn't gotten her up yet. I'm sorry you have felt that too!

nunzchucks · December 2014

@babygabe614‌ DS is a 10.5 hr kid. It sucks getting up at 5, but it is what it is. We gave him a week and a half to try to make it to 5:30, but he was wide awake and smiling at 5

babygabe614 · December 2014

nunzchucks said:

@babygabe614‌ DS is a 10.5 hr kid. It sucks getting up at 5, but it is what it is. We gave him a week and a half to try to make it to 5:30, but he was wide awake and smiling at 5

***stuck in the box***

@nunzchucks We will give it a couple days but I think we'll be in the same boat just based on the fact that she's consistently gotten up at this time for months now. Thank goodness we're early risers anyway, although a 6am wakeup on the weekend doesn't feel great no matter how much of a morning person you are. I'm sorry you are getting up at 5 - yeesh!!

lola4411 · December 2014

nunzchucks said:

@babygabe614‌ DS is a 10.5 hr kid. It sucks getting up at 5, but it is what it is. We gave him a week and a half to try to make it to 5:30, but he was wide awake and smiling at 5

this is my question too! baby boy wakes up crying after about 10 hrs. is it ok to get him up then? we have been trying the check ins to get him to calm down but they dont work in the morning. also, is it ok to pick him up crying when he wakes up? i know not to touch him during check-ins at night, but what about the morning?

btw, thanks @nunzchucks (again!!) regarding engorgement. last night was night 2 of no night feeds, i think i just have to wait it out.

nunzchucks · December 2014

@lola4411 10.5 hrs is the minimum with 12 hrs as the maximum. If LO is up within 45 min - 1 hr of wake time, check ins can make things worse. Use your judgement. We just let DS go. Sometimes he goes back to sleep, sometimes no, but 10.5 hrs is the soonest we get him up

The book says some kids are ok with 10.5 hrs, but you really need to be sure. DS is clearly awake, happy and fully rested.

Also, totally fine to pick him up crying at wake time. Be positive. You did it! You stayed in your crib all night!

lola4411 · December 2014

nunzchucks said:

@lola4411 10.5 hrs is the minimum with 12 hrs as the maximum. If LO is up within 45 min - 1 hr of wake time, check ins can make things worse. Use your judgement. We just let DS go. Sometimes he goes back to sleep, sometimes no, but 10.5 hrs is the soonest we get him up

The book says some kids are ok with 10.5 hrs, but you really need to be sure. DS is clearly awake, happy and fully rested.

Also, totally fine to pick him up crying at wake time. Be positive. You did it! You stayed in your crib all night!

@nunzchucks thank you so much for all your help! i cant believe how far we've come in 1 week. no more night feeds and he stays asleep basically all night. thank you so much

nunzchucks · December 2014

I'm so happy for you @lola4411! I felt like I got my life and marriage back after the kids were sleeping well. I hope you feel the same!

babygabe614 · December 2014

@lola4411 it is really encouraging to hear about your progress! I also had the question about whether to pick up while crying in the morning, but forgot to ask. Thanks @nunzchucks!

lola4411 · December 2014

@nunzchucks yes, i totally feel like we have our life back! i kept waiting for baby boy to "grow out of this phase". looking back i cant believe how long i waited! it also felt like LO was waiting for us to come up with a sleep solution because he sleeps so much now!

@babygabe614 totally recommend this!

btw, glad my sleep woes brought me back to j14. cant believe i stayed away for so long

shellbell813 · December 2014

@nunzchucks‌ Help! We had been doing wonderfully. Noah was sleeping through the night great. Then we started some acute teething... light fever, rosy cheeks, messed up bm schedule, not eating. So I would follow the book and get up to soothe him as he needed. Well our teething seems to have paused again and he is now back to the bad habit of waking up all night long.

So tonight I tried to start over with our sleep training. He cried so long and hard, gave himself those little hiccups and just sounded worse than when we originally did this. I gave in at 5 am and gave him his paci and he went back to sleep. I don't know what to do! Am I right in trying to sleep train again? Or is the fact that he is doing this mean that something is wrong and I should be comforting him? What did you do for teething and such?

babygabe614 · December 2014

Night 2 was very successful. Much better than the first night! LO went down at 7:12pm with no crying(!!!) DH got up at 3:30 for her weaning feed and she cried for 5 mins after he put her back to bed, and then fell asleep. She rustled a bit around 5:30am because DH was making noise in the shower across the hall from her bedroom and the light from the bathroom kinda wakes her up too, but she put herself back to sleep and woke for the day at 6:20am. Yay! It was so nice to start her day off happy rather than in tears!

She still only ate 2oz during the night, like she did on night 1. We will continue to lower the amount 1oz each night but gosh I hope once we get to the 1oz night she doesn't lose it when she runs out of formula. LO is NOT a happy baby when she sucks the bottle and gets air, lol.

@shellbell813 I'm sorry the teething messed you guys up!

I am so scared of this when LO's next tooth comes through.

nunzchucks · December 2014

@shellbell813 For teething, we normally do Motrin before bed and just let them go. Neither kid really woke up much while teething. I feel like you'll have to go back to check ins to get him used to self soothing again.

katekat8721 · December 2014

Teething wasn't too horrible for us either. During the day was rougher than at night. Like nunz, we just gave some tylenol/motrin before bed and they did ok. There was one particular nap time when V wouldn't sleep, we gave her tylenol and took her on a walk in the ergo. Even that didn't put her to sleep. She missed her usual 'big nap time' but it was all ok, still went down regular time and up regular time. Hopefully you guys have similar luck!

TunieBee · December 2014

shellbell813 said:
@nunzchucks‌ Help! We had been doing wonderfully. Noah was sleeping through the night great. Then we started some acute teething... light fever, rosy cheeks, messed up bm schedule, not eating. So I would follow the book and get up to soothe him as he needed. Well our teething seems to have paused again and he is now back to the bad habit of waking up all night long.

So tonight I tried to start over with our sleep training. He cried so long and hard, gave himself those little hiccups and just sounded worse than when we originally did this. I gave in at 5 am and gave him his paci and he went back to sleep. I don't know what to do! Am I right in trying to sleep train again? Or is the fact that he is doing this mean that something is wrong and I should be comforting him? What did you do for teething and such?

I posted basically this same thing 3 nights ago. The first night was awful. Much worse than when we originally sleep trained. Night two and three were MUCH better. It's really hard, especially since they're getting older and can put up more of a protest. Good luck mama!

shellbell813 · December 2014

Thanks everyone! I guess we will be kind of starting over again. I just was feeling guilty that I was possibly letting him suffer with teething pain or something. But I really do think it's just become a bad habit that we need to break. Hopefully tonight will go better and I will stand my ground.

babygabe614 · December 2014

Night 3 was good, but the morning sucked again. I am really starting to think LO has a 10.5 hour limit for sleep.

She went down at 7:03pm no problem with zero crying. I fed her 3oz at 3am (and she didn't freak when she hit the bottom of the bottle like I thought she would - whew!) and she went back down. She did a lot of moaning and groaning after that, like she never got back into a really deep sleep but wasn't crying so we left her. She was up at around 5 and I let her fuss until 5:30 when she really started crying hard. I tried to do a check in but she just got more worked up so I pulled her out of bed at 5:35.

The only thing making me think maybe she does need longer than 10.5 hours is that after she was up for the day, she hung out for about an hour and then cried for a bottle, drank all 6oz and went back to sleep for about 45 minutes. So it does seem like she was still tired but I don't know how to tack that 45 mins she needed onto her nighttime sleep while also weaning the bottle because it seemed like she needed to be full to sleep?

eta: tagging @nunzchucks. I know you didn't do the bottle weaning part but maybe can impart some of your wisdom anyway

EmSue412 · December 2014

Hi ladies! I'm a long time lurker, but I was very active on my DD1's BMB in August 2011. I recently came across this thread and I think it's fate!

A little background... DD2 is not the great sleeper DD1 was and is. It sucks. She's nearly 6.5 mos and still wakes multiple times a night crying/fussing/talking/looking for the boob. I nurse her twice a night, but as the book says, I think it is out of habit, not hunger. She has slept all night a handful of times without waking or eating so I don't think she NEEDS the feedings. DH and I are deep into the book, taking notes and forming a sleep plan. I've already read it once through, but I have a few questions I wanted to ask here, mostly for opinions.

First, I'm unsure if I need to wean her off of her feedings. 2 months ago or so, she was making it til 3,4 or even 5 am without a feeding, so I don't think she needs it. (She is 17 1/2 lbs now.) the last couple months, she's gotten worse with her wake ups and I end up typically feeding her around 1 then 5 just to calm her and get her back to sleep. She will only actively suck and swallow for 5 mins or less. Out of my bad habit, I let her suck for another 15 mins or so just because I am a glutton for punishment. So would you follow the weaning schedule in my case, or should I go cold turkey and not do it at all? I know the book says she doesn't need to eat at night at this age/weight. I just am worried I won't know if she's crying during the night out of hunger or not. I know she's capable of not eating during the night though. Opinions?

Second, has anyone had success starting with nighttime sleep learning and later on tackling naps? I do have to rock her for naps but most of the time, when I catch her at the right window, she's out in a few minutes. She naps anywhere from 45 mins to 2 hrs, mostly 3x a day. I'm afraid of messing with this decent napping, but I also don't want to confuse her.

Again, I'm aware about what the book says, I'm really interested in hearing real moms' opinions! Thanks so much!!

(Sorry if this is one long paragraph- I'm on mobile.)

nunzchucks · December 2014

@babygabe614 If she's up after 10.5 hours, I would just get her since she seems to be doing that consistently. See if she can make it the 2 hrs after that for her first nap. The goal for naps is to keep them up long enough that they start to consolidate their sleep. So instead of 4 45 min naps, you're getting 2 solid hour plus naps and a blip nap.

You may find that after you wean that she sleeps better. When I cut DS's dream feed, he stopped having his 1AM chatty time. I felt like I was disturbing his sleep pattern by doing it.

nunzchucks · December 2014

@EmSue412‌ It sounds like you're a little unsure about whether or not LO needs to eat at night. For your peace of mind, I would wean both feedings.

I did naps and nights at the same time. I want to ask though - are you really ok rocking her for every nap? How long will you be ok with it? I know the more aware my kids got, the less effective rocking was. They'd rather hang out than sleep! I just don't think I could have gone thru the whole crying and check ins again. I preferred to just rip the band aid off. Up to you, obviously.

babygabe614 · December 2014

@nunzchucks Interesting point about the weaning feed "interrupting" sleep. Our first no-feed night will be Saturday so I'll be interested to see if she just sleeps right through or not. I wish I could just go cold turkey right now because it feels so unnecessary to wake her when I know she doesn't NEED the feed, and I think she'd just put herself back to sleep in a few minutes if she did wake on her own around that time. Sigh.

lauren8384 · December 2014

Is anyone still having a hard time with naps? Nighttime is almost perfect! I'm happy with it, but naps are really getting to me. A couple of days ago, he finally fell asleep after crying for 45 minutes. That was the first time he had done that since we started. This morning he fell asleep without crying and slept for 20 minutes...then cried. I had to run a few errands after that nap and of course he fell asleep, but it is just because he's so exhausted! This is so hard!!!!! And, @nunzchucks‌ , it makes me feel better that you didn't really do the check ins, because I think he did better when I didn't...at least at night.

EmSue412 · December 2014

@nunzchucks‌ You are right... I'm on the fence about the night feedings so I should probably go ahead with weaning them both. Hopefully it will be quick and painless. And no, I surely can't imagine rocking her to sleep for naps for much longer! So you have a good point. May as well suck it up all at once!

And just an added note... I am TERRIFIED of doing this! But as I sit here at almost 10 pm and DD has already woken twice since 845 crying, I think I need to bite the bullet and do it. I'm scared...

katekat8721 · December 2014

@lauren8384 naps are the f$cking worst. It gets better xo.

Jazznit1984 · December 2014

LO has been sleeping like a dream. Naps or night, she goes down with minimal fussing. We are flying from Singapore to Canada tomorrow, nervous about the jet lag! Happy holidays xoxo

babygabe614 · December 2014

@CAMag That is good advice about the weaning, and the wakeup time as well. I am pretty sure we're stuck with a 10.5 hr schedule and I am just fine with that. I'd much rather have a happy baby who sleeps for 10.5 hours than one who starts her day in tears because I made her stay in her crib for an extra half hour.

Last night went well; DH put her to bed around 7:10. I got up at 3am for the dream feed (2oz) which she took and for the first time since we started, she got very annoyed when she hit the bottom of the bottle. She cried a little but quickly got over it and fell back asleep when I put her down (<1 min). Then she was up for the day around 5:40am.

I'm supposed to go to a 1oz dream feed tonight but I am skipping it and just seeing if she wakes on her own and then playing it by ear. Reason being, I know my kid, and since day 1 she has freaked out when she sucks air when a bottle runs dry. To this day she does this. And I know she will suck down that 1oz and get agitated, but last night she was in such a deep sleep before I went in to wake her, I think she could have possibly STTN had I not gone in there for the dream feed. So that is our plan for tonight and we'll see how it goes.

EmSue412 · December 2014

This is hell! Night 1 and she fell asleep in 38 minutes. Now it's 4 hrs later and she's up to 1 hour of crying. Horrible. I had set my alarm for 2 am for a feeding but obviously that wasn't soon enough. Now it's killing me to think I have to pick her up and feed her after she falls asleep!

EmSue412 · December 2014

@CAMag‌ Thank you for responding! I keep telling myself this is a short (hopefully) time of sleep hell for a long time of sleep heaven! I hope!! This thread has really encouraged me.

DD ended up crying for 1h 15m from 12:30-1:45. Her first and only wake up. Like I said, I really missed the mark with her feeding time, but I did wake her at 2:30 for the first feeding. That went well- she fussed and whined for about 5 mins when I put her back down. Then she was just staring at the monitor camera! Weirdo. I fell asleep and she did too. Then I missed my damn alarm at 4:30 but thankfully woke at 5:45 and I decided to do the second feeding then. She went right back to sleep and then just woke at 7:20 for the day. So she was in her crib for a total of just under 11 hrs. I guess night one was pretty good.

Now onto naps... I'm scared!

ETA: nap one success! Took 12 minutes to fall asleep. Coming up on 2 hrs of sleep so according to the book, I have to wake her at the 2 he mark, correct?

katekat8721 · December 2014

@Emsue412 yeah wake her up at 2 hrs.

You're doing great - the first week sucks but it is worth it to have a happy, well rested baby in the end!

EmSue412 · December 2014

Thanks @katekat8721‌ for your support!! Nap two wasn't as great, but not awful. Took 36 mins to fall asleep but only needed one check in. Then she slept for 42 minutes.

I think I remember reading about some ladies saying they thought the check ins at nap amped baby up more. I think that happened today. May have to see how it goes next time.

Also, what's your cut off for attempting the third nap? Bedtime is 8:30. She woke up from nap 2 at 3:30. I'm definitely going to attempt one today, but I'm curious what you all do?

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