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Circumcision

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Re: Circumcision

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  • beezybabybeezybaby member
    annerz22 and Snapdragon750
    Thanks for the insight.  I guess I know that they are all different, but what happens between when they take him and when he comes back alert and awake?  I think It would be really hard for me to not know how he handled it, and even harder of course, to watch.
    If DH is insistent and we can't arrive at an agreement, maybe the mohel option would be good for us.
    Agh, I just can't imagine willingly putting my child in pain, when for the rest of his life I will be fighting to keep him from it.  But, I do get it that no kid remembers this pain, and most probably don't resent their parents for the choice either way. So, who knows where that leaves me

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  • Snapdragon750Snapdragon750 member
    edited December 2014
    Ashtastic515 said:
    No, we will not circumcise. When I was pregnant with our first son I researched it and decided I didn't want to. Then I asked dh his opinion and he didn't even hesitate. No.  

    Our 9-year-old is intact and this LO will stay that way, too. 

    Someone way back on the first or second page of this thread talked about little children noticing the difference.  I was a kindergarten teacher for a long time.  I never saw any of their penises, but I've taught over 300 5-year-olds. I'm sure many of them were not circumcised (I'm basing this on the fact that I teach many children from different countries where there is no RIC.)  Never once have I had a boy say a word about another boy's penis and then all went into the bathroom together to use the urinals.
    First off, please sincerely excuse my ignorance.... Circumsized penises are considered to NOT be "intact?" That word in itself just seems super harsh.. Is that truly the medical term? Both of our DS are circumcised and if someone ever told them their little birds were not "intact" I do believe my mama bear claws would come out real quick! Mostly because it just sounds like a personal attack on their masculinity. Anyways.. Not political.. Don't care which way you swing.. Just curious about that terminology!
    I'm not a fan of the word either; in fact I find it pretty offensive, but I wasn't going to be the first to bring it up.  I think it's purposely inflammatory language meant to vilify circumcision.  We don't call anyone else "intact" for not having any sort of specific surgery, even cosmetic, and the obvious heavy implication is that men and boys who are circumcised are not intact, which is making the strong statement that the foreskin is meant to be there and that removing it is taking away something important.  

    I don't necessarily think everyone who ever uses the word means it that way (I think sometimes it's just easier to type/spell or it's just the first word that comes to mind), but I think that's where it originated.
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  • bugaboo15bugaboo15 member
    @Beeorgange I didn't know if took that long for the skin to stay back. Thank you for informing me. I did however mean it would be easier for him to clean when he is older, rather than pull the skin back every time he cleans himself.
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  • Ashtastic515Ashtastic515 member
    Snapdragon750 said:


    Ashtastic515 said:

    petrichor10 said:

    No, we will not circumcise. When I was pregnant with our first son I researched it and decided I didn't want to. Then I asked dh his opinion and he didn't even hesitate. No.  


    Our 9-year-old is intact and this LO will stay that way, too. 

    Someone way back on the first or second page of this thread talked about little children noticing the difference.  I was a kindergarten teacher for a long time.  I never saw any of their penises, but I've taught over 300 5-year-olds. I'm sure many of them were not circumcised (I'm basing this on the fact that I teach many children from different countries where there is no RIC.)  Never once have I had a boy say a word about another boy's penis and then all went into the bathroom together to use the urinals.
    First off, please sincerely excuse my ignorance.... Circumsized penises are considered to NOT be "intact?" That word in itself just seems super harsh.. Is that truly the medical term?

    Both of our DS are circumcised and if someone ever told them their little birds were not "intact" I do believe my mama bear claws would come out real quick! Mostly because it just sounds like a personal attack on their masculinity.

    Anyways.. Not political.. Don't care which way you swing.. Just curious about that terminology!

    I'm not a fan of the word either; in fact I find it pretty offensive, but I wasn't going to be the first to bring it up.  I think it's purposely inflammatory language meant to vilify circumcision.  We don't call anyone else "intact" for not having any sort of specific surgery, even cosmetic, and the obvious heavy implication is that men and boys who are circumcised are not intact, which is making the strong statement that the foreskin is meant to be there and that removing it is taking away something important.  

    I don't necessarily think everyone who ever uses the word means it that way (I think sometimes it's just easier to type/spell or it's just the first word that comes to mind), but I think that's where it originated.


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  • bugaboo15bugaboo15 member
    @EntropicEpona‌ you are right it is your own personal opinion and I also support the people who do not wish to do so. I'm not sure I'm understanding your response. All I was saying is I feel like it would be easier for him to clean in the future rather then pulling skin back. I can't control whether he maintains good hygiene when he's older and cleaning himself so, in that case I will be circumcising him. You have every right to not circumcise him and I respect your decision
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  • Leslie2003Leslie2003 member
    Both of my boys are circled.  If this had been a boy, he would have been circled too.  My OB does them on the day of discharge from the hospital.

    I don't think it's my place to care/judge what other parents do or do not do to their son's penis. 
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  • ellab043ellab043 member
    We will not if we ever have to cross this road. DH is not and has never had an issue, am infection or any other negative from it. I honestly never noticed until he mentioned it once and I said "what?! Really? Let me see.!" So I don't think that it is often all that noticeable to anyone. Also, I worked in a daycare with all age children throughout college and I have never had a child ask about another child's penis.
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  • roundtwoOMGroundtwoOMG member
    shmeell25 said:


    roundtwoOMG said:

    It is one of the few things I feel very, very strongly about and actually don't fall into the "it's a personal decision/up to you/I don't care what others do" camp.



    I truly am not trying to start a debate here, but am I reading this right? You don't think it's someone's personal decision whether they circ their own kids or not? How could it affect you if they don't?


    Sorry - yes it doesn't affect me so in that sense it truly is personal but I personally believe that it is ...well... Personal? To the baby boy and shouldn't be about the parents.



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  • Pintobean39Pintobean39 member
    petrichor10 said:

    No, we will not circumcise. When I was pregnant with our first son I researched it and decided I didn't want to. Then I asked dh his opinion and he didn't even hesitate. No.  


    Our 9-year-old is intact and this LO will stay that way, too. 

    Someone way back on the first or second page of this thread talked about little children noticing the difference.  I was a kindergarten teacher for a long time.  I never saw any of their penises, but I've taught over 300 5-year-olds. I'm sure many of them were not circumcised (I'm basing this on the fact that I teach many children from different countries where there is no RIC.)  Never once have I had a boy say a word about another boy's penis and then all went into the bathroom together to use the urinals.
    That was my 21 yr old sons kindergarten teacher. There was only one child that I knew of that wasn't circumcised and he was born in California. The mom said she didn't circumcise him because she was a single mom, no dad in the picture and she didn't even know anything about it. I knew the mom really well that's how I knew the story. Maybe it's because where you were a teacher being uncircumcised wasn't that big a deal. I know when my son was born it wasn't even a second thought you circumcised your son. Things are so much different than they were 21 years ago. Now I'm sure there may be more than 1 child that's not circumcised and they may not think twice about it.


    I'm with everyone else, intact ..... Yeah not liking that word.
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  • robotgalrobotgal member
    edited December 2014
    If any future sons I have want a circumcision, they can make that decision for themselves when they are mature enough to understand the implications of that decision. Same with children who want their ears pierced, or any other cosmetic procedure.

    Personally, I believe the arguments for "infection rates are lower" or "circumcised penii are easier to clean" are just excuses for "It's always been done this way," "I think it looks weird" or "we want our son to look like his dad." Altering someone's genitals without their consent because it's easier to clean and/or easier than teaching them about safe sex seems insanely overkill to me.

    If my parents had altered my genitals without my consent for non medically-necessary reasons, *especially* if it affected future sexual pleasure, I'd be furious at them.
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  • beezybabybeezybaby member
    SaltyH2O  I agree that pain, and how we deal with it, makes up a good part of who we are.  But I don't think it is a valid argument for this case.  As far as vaccinations etc...the good clearly (except to anti vaxers) outweighs the bad.  As for heartbreak, knee scrapes, and so on, we don't hope for these things to happen to our kids so that they can grow from them, but we do use them for that purpose when they occur.  I do try to protect my kids from pain, fully knowing that I can't always.  I don't keep them from doing anything risky-climbing trees, riding bikes, climbing the rock wall at the playground, and I won't use potential heartbreak as reason not to fall in love.  But, I will teach them how to be safe, how to protect their hearts, to minimize, and avoid when possible, inevitable pain.
    This isn't really arguing about circumcision now, more just a friendly reply in a friendly discussion.

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  • Ashtastic515Ashtastic515 member
    I'm not here to argue either, no worries! I live in a household of 4 boys including our neutered cat! When I think of intact.. The main word that comes to mind is attached! As in the penis is still attached to the body. I'm not a circumcision crusader by any means! I think when you look at the entire definition and all of the synonyms it no longer only applies to a non circumsized penis.
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  • a316ba316b member
    Left it up to DH, I don't have those parts...

    DH decided not to circumcise our son. Pediatrician was indifferent.

    As long as you take care of and clean properly and teach hygiene I didn't see a prob with it.

    Good luck with your decision.

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  • robotgalrobotgal member
    Starbuck128 said:
    The foreskin has a lot of nerve endings. More nerve endings=more pleasure is how I understand it. The most benign version of female circumcision removes some of the labia, which also contain nerve endings and produce pleasurable feelings during sex. Sorry if that's not a good comparison. I'm a little distracted a the moment.
    @Starbuck128 answered for me. This article links to a bunch of studies in the first paragraph:

    Bullet point summary:
    • 4.5 greater chance of suffering from ED
    • Sensitivity reduction of 75% (unsurprising when you're losing 20,000 nerve endings on 50% of the mobile skin)
    • 5 times more likely to experience premature ejaculation

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  • robotgalrobotgal member
    @Lalalady54, as I mentioned, the article directly links to the peer-reviewed articles in the first paragraph. But if you'd like me to do the work for you, then here you go:

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  • Lalalady54Lalalady54 member
    SaltyH2O said:


    udubbaby said:

    DawnLilly said:

    @udubbaby‌ naturally ribbed for her pleasure ;)

    I just died ;)

    I have friends that put it on their "fuck-it" lists...

    Those are a thing? Gross.

    I was thinking the same thing, then decided I must just be, old... Sighhhhhh....(And things have changed a lot since I was a single lady or I was just a huge prude)
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  • Lalalady54Lalalady54 member
    SaltyH2O said:


    Lalalady54 said:

    SaltyH2O said:


    udubbaby said:

    DawnLilly said:

    @udubbaby‌ naturally ribbed for her pleasure ;)

    I just died ;)

    I have friends that put it on their "fuck-it" lists...

    Those are a thing? Gross.
    I was thinking the same thing, then decided I must just be, old... Sighhhhhh....(And things have changed a lot since I was a single lady or I was just a huge prude)

    I paused myself wondering if my reaction was the same @lalalady54, but young or old, to me it's still gross. 

    I'm with you. Totally gross. If you want to have casual sex, whatever your prerogative, seeking out specific character traits to "fuck" makes me wanna barf. Oh well, I'm not doing it.
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  • DawnLillyDawnLilly member
    "Buck-it" "Fuck-it"

    I get it. My husband said once, "I never did get to have twins" Yea right. It's not necessarily dead serious. It's just a joke. What's a woman going to do; walk around a bar and ask?
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  • CTcoffeequeenCTcoffeequeen member
    My son is circumcised and if this baby is a boy, he will be too.
    My son coincidentally is immuno suppressed and when he's been sick, we have been able to cross certain infections off the list as being applicable to him because he is circumcised. If he wasn't and had a fever of unknown origin it could be an issue relating to being uncircumcised. Not likely, but possible.
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  • queenrichqueenrich member
    edited December 2014
    I am from Canada and we will be circ. ours if it's a boy.
    My doctor says it's a personal choice but if you ask for his personal opinion he is all for getting it done.
    These reasons include:
    -A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
    -A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
    -Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.

    And I just have a feeling if my teenage son has a problem with himself he probably won't tell me or be too embarrassed to talk about it.

    Of course if you keep an uncirced penis clean it's just fine. I think there is nothing wrong with leaving it. I just would rather not have to teach my son how to clean his uncircumcised willy because we have no experience with that.

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  • Snapdragon750Snapdragon750 member
    petrichor10 said:
    *********** END QUOTE*********

    But if we were on a disabilities board and there was a poll about whether or not anyone was an amputee, I might very well respond, "No, all of my limbs are intact."  And why in the world would that be offensive.  It's simply a fact.

    And, true, I said my son is intact. The same way many others said their son is circumcised. To me the word penis was implied in my sentence. That's the topic of discussion.

    And, circumcised boys have had a part of their bodies removed. Again, there is no judgement in that statement. It is simply a fact.

    I am in no way criticizing anyone's child.  I've apologized for using a term that I wasn't aware was offensive. I won't use it again here.  But I honestly don't understand why it isn't an accurate description. 

    And, actually, to me having to say that my son is uncircumcised makes it sound like I neglected to do something that I was supposed to do to him.  


    I get the feeling you didn't really understand most of my post.  I'll try again.

    Would you reply on the amputee board, "No, I am intact?"

    Would you refer to your breasts as intact on a breast cancer support board in which women have had mastectomies?

    What about all those other (albeit very imperfect) analogies I mentioned?

    I find it interesting that in the beginning of your post you can't possibly wrap your mind around the idea that a factual statement can carry implicated and offensive meaning, yet by the end of your post you admit that "uncircumcised" carries some negative meaning for you.  Why should it?  After all, it's a factual statement.
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  • zinnmommazinnmomma member
    Will never understand the reason why people dont. For cleanliness and comfort. I am an infant teacher and have seen so many that don't clean and then the end up getting infections constantly. Once he is older it becomes very uncomfortable and it is very painful to have it done when they are older. JMHO
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  • roundtwoOMGroundtwoOMG member
    @dawnlilly yes - bingo. 
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  • Snapdragon750Snapdragon750 member
    petrichor10 said:
    petrichor10 said:
    *********** END QUOTE*********

    But if we were on a disabilities board and there was a poll about whether or not anyone was an amputee, I might very well respond, "No, all of my limbs are intact."  And why in the world would that be offensive.  It's simply a fact.

    And, true, I said my son is intact. The same way many others said their son is circumcised. To me the word penis was implied in my sentence. That's the topic of discussion.

    And, circumcised boys have had a part of their bodies removed. Again, there is no judgement in that statement. It is simply a fact.

    I am in no way criticizing anyone's child.  I've apologized for using a term that I wasn't aware was offensive. I won't use it again here.  But I honestly don't understand why it isn't an accurate description. 

    And, actually, to me having to say that my son is uncircumcised makes it sound like I neglected to do something that I was supposed to do to him.  


    I get the feeling you didn't really understand most of my post.  I'll try again.

    Would you reply on the amputee board, "No, I am intact?"

    Would you refer to your breasts as intact on a breast cancer support board in which women have had mastectomies?

    What about all those other (albeit very imperfect) analogies I mentioned?

    I find it interesting that in the beginning of your post you can't possibly wrap your mind around the idea that a factual statement can carry implicated and offensive meaning, yet by the end of your post you admit that "uncircumcised" carries some negative meaning for you.  Why should it?  After all, it's a factual statement.
    *************************, Yes, I would use intact in the situations you describe if I was directly asked about part of my body because I don't see it as a negative word. It just describes something that has been altered. When would you use intact? And I don't call my son unknighted, but he has never had knighthood bestowed upon him. It just doesn't make sense to me to describe someone as not something when there is no reason he would have been that something in the first place. And as for the last part, if people are saying that me saying he is intact is implying that their sons are somehow lesser then it can also be taken the other way if the un language is preferred.
    First of all, can we just clear up that when most people refer to a penis they just refer to it as a penis, without mentioning the state of its foreskin?  You only say it's not circumcised when the subject comes up.  To use your own knight example, if someone asked you if you were knighted, you would say "no I'm not knighted," not something like "No, the lack of prefix to my name is intact." When someone asks you if your ears are pierced, do you say they're not pierced or do you say they're intact?  

    I had my wisdom teeth out.  Am I not intact?

    You clearly have a problem using "uncircumcised," so you're acknowledging that you feel there is a more positive connotation to "intact."  That in itself is why people take offense to using the word intact. 

    I think I'm being very level-headed and logical here, but your inability to understand the basic definition of connotation is starting to puzzle me.  If you want to argue that it's better and more natural to be uncircumcised and therefore intact is the proper word, just come out and say it. 
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  • Ash1103Ash1103 member
    Yes we will have it done at birth. It's just what our families have done and believed was the better choice. I'm not 100% against it though. It's the parents choice. I've always believed its better hygeinically speaking
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  • sabriel1sabriel1 member
    edited December 2014
    josim said:
    icajesica82 said:
    roundtwoOMG said:
    We did not circumcise our son and if this baby had been a boy, we would leave him intact as well.

    It is one of the few things I feel very, very strongly about and actually don't fall into the "it's a personal decision/up to you/I don't care what others do" camp.

    That said - I'd never want to get into a fight with someone about it. If someone asks me IRL, I always preface the discussion by saying "just FYI - I feel very strongly about this and will be unable to give a balanced, two sided argument".

    Anyways - I also get the sense that in Canada anyway, leaving boys intact is becoming more normal so I'm pretty sure my son won't be the only one in his class...
    I think it is becoming more common in the US too to not circ.  That's really what opened my eyes to it and made me want to look more into it.

     


    This is true in the part of Canada I'm from too - I would say it is probably more likely than not to meet someone with and uncircumcised penis. Actually, I've never seen a circumcised one in real life or heard of anyone doing it for their kids/

    I just read that in Canada the circumcision rate is only 10% in hospitals and is on a downward trend. I also once saw an interesting map of the States that showed how circumsision rates are so regional, it's actually extremely interesting.

    I wouldn't have it done to my son but it's a personal choice for others so what other people do doesn't bother me at all. ------quote box fail------ I'm curious to know where you read that stat...I'm in Canada too, and I have seen many penises (hubs plays hockey and those boys like to be naked. All. the. time.) I have only seen one uncut guy. And yes, guys do check each other out. And yes, they think it's weird if someone on the team doesn't shower with them. Maybe it's just hockey culture. The women at my office who have all had sons have had them circumcised. So maybe circumcision a regional thing in Canada--we're not in a cold part of Canada. Or maybe I'm basing it off a homogenous group. I doubt it's under 10% though. Either way, if we have a son, he will be circumcised. My hubby feels very strongly about it--not because he wants our LO to "look like dad". I don't have an opinion one way or another--we're not religious and I haven't done any research on it yet.
     
    ---QUOTE box fail again---

    @josim This is where I had read the stat, not sure how reliable it is though https://www.circlist.com/rites/canada.html

    As I mentioned above this would only by hospital circumcisions and would not include ones done outside of the hospital.

    Maybe guys checking each other out is a thing with some groups. DH says he's never heard of that and he asked some of his friends last night and they agreed

     DD born Oct 2011 - DS#1 born Jan 2014 - DS#2 born Apr 2015 - DS#3 born Sept 2016 - LO#5 due Feb 7, 2018

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  • MLS82MLS82 member
    Ds is circumcised and this one will be too.
    We are jewish so it's not even a debate for us- I've never given it much thought.
    Outside of that I think it's a personal decision and really have no judgement either way.
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  • TarheelMama202TarheelMama202 member
    Damn, it looks like I'm a little late to the penis party. 

    DS1 is circumcised and DS2 will be as well. DH is a third year med student and has strong feels in favor of circumcision. 

    For those who haven't experienced having a son circumcised, we had it done in the hospital and it truly was not a big deal. At all. He left for a little bit and came back ready to nurse. 

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  • awoo22awoo22 member
    edited December 2014
    Snapdragon750 said:
    I will purely for religious reasons.  I don't know what I would choose to do if that weren't a factor, and I really don't care what non-Jews choose to do with their sons' penises.

    I will put it out there, by the way, that a circumcision from a mohel is very different from one at the hospital.  If you want to circ but have been turned off by horror stories of hospital circs, look into how a good mohel does it and if there's one who services your area. (I can rec you one if you're near St. Louis or Dallas)
    @snapdragon - what is the difference in the 2 procedures?  I'm Christian and DH is Jewish but he wants to use a mohel.  That is totally fine by me, but I figured that if we were already at the hospital when I gave birth and it's obviously a sanitary environment (and perhaps covered by insurance), this would be the safest and most efficient way.   Just curious what the differences were.
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