Regrets that I didn't temp and chart before ivf

vballbaby · December 2014

i am having some anxiety that I didn't temp and chart while ttc before jumping to ivf. We had one failed iui last month. I have however, had unprotected sex for a few years and tried to time it with ovulation only tracking my very regular periods. I did use OPKs on a few diff occasions never getting a solid reading. I just wish I would have really, really temped and charted for this past year. Now here I am jumping on the ivf bandwagon per my drs advice. I wish I had more time. I am 42 so I don't have time to dilly dally. Am I making the wrong choice at my age? Dr says I only have a very small chance of conceiving on my own naturally due to age and diminished ovarian reserve. I just feel like I'm taking a huge leap of faith and wish I had more time

guess I'm just venting and wondering if I'm making the right decision. Thanks for listening.
Edited for spelling

Rangiroa · December 2014

I'm not an IVF veteran (just had my first retrieval), but IMO, don't worry about not charting or rushing into things. You mentioned you tried for a few years and I see an IUI in your siggy. To me, that's definitely taking it slow. I would make the leap to IVF now if I were in your shoes. You also might consider CCS with your IVF.

vballbaby · December 2014

Thanks @Rangiroa‌. Is ccs icsi? We are doing that as well. I just wish I'd really taken control sooner. Maybe I was missing my real window all these years. At my age though, I can't go back that's for sure. Wish I would have found this board sooner!

Rangiroa · December 2014

CCS is comprehensive chromosomal screening. They take a little biopsy of the day 5 embryo (it doesn't hurt it) and test to make sure it has the correct number of chromosomes. It tells you whether the embryo has a chromosomal disorder. It's usually recommended for women over 35. Here's some info on it: https://www.colocrm.com/Services/ComprehensiveChromosomeScreening.aspx

If you do CCS, you have to do ICSI to avoid DNA contamination from other sperm. The ladies on this board pretty much all agree ICSI is a good idea anyway, so it's good you are doing it.

vballbaby · December 2014

I actually asked my dr about that and he said they can't /don't do that because it destroys the embryos. I wonder why some clinics do and some don't. That's actually been bothering me. There's got to be a reason behind it. Thanks for the info I plan on doing more research.

Rangiroa · December 2014

That's interesting. I've always heard it does not substantially decrease survival rates. I'll poke around and see what stats I can find. I've got two embies growing that are supposed to get CCS on Wednesday, so I'm curious too.

vballbaby · December 2014

I would feel a lot more confident having them screened rather than experiencing a loss that might be avoidable you know?

vballbaby · December 2014

@rangiroa, apparently the old method of evaluating embryos using fluorescent light is what caused them harm (FISH). https://www.rmact.com/getting-started/fertility-testing/ccs-comprehensive-chromosome-screening. Maybe CCS isn't a widespread testing option just yet, so you're lucky that you're clinic offers it. I'll have to ask my Dr. more about it nonetheless... @lemonliz, you're right, we actually haven't used BC for the past 5 years, aside from somewhat trying to be careful so I'm sure if it was going to happen, it probably would have. He also has low morphology so they may have trouble implanting who knows. Bottom line wish I was 30! LOL My husband is also 9 years younger so that adds a little pressure.
Edited for spelling

vballbaby · December 2014

@rangiroa, are you paying a lot more for CCS? I was just browsing some other blogs and one lady mentions it was $7K additional. That's crazy if that's the norm...

emmuffy · December 2014

not everyone has good eggs and is super fertile at 30. I had my AMH done for the first time at 30 and it was the same as it is now. Some people just have bad luck, even if they start "young".

Twinkie0612 · December 2014

vballbaby said:

@rangiroa, apparently the old method of evaluating embryos using fluorescent light is what caused them harm (FISH). https://www.rmact.com/getting-started/fertility-testing/ccs-comprehensive-chromosome-screening. Maybe CCS isn't a widespread testing option just yet, so you're lucky that you're clinic offers it. I'll have to ask my Dr. more about it nonetheless... @lemonliz, you're right, we actually haven't used BC for the past 5 years, aside from somewhat trying to be careful so I'm sure if it was going to happen, it probably would have. He also has low morphology so they may have trouble implanting who knows. Bottom line wish I was 30! LOL My husband is also 9 years younger so that adds a little pressure.
Edited for spelling

Definitely don't worry about not charting. If you have been having regular sex (like 2-3 times a week) charting isn't really going to make a difference.

Also to the bolded, being 30 doesn't necessarily mean things will be easy. I have normal AMH (2.25) and FSH (5ish) and did my first IVF at age 30. I thought IVF would be a slam dunk for us. We ended up finding out that I am a poor responder to meds and that I have crappy egg quality. I am now 32 and just finished up my 4th fresh IVF which was converted to a freeze all due to lining issues. We got two blasts to freeze. While age is usually an indicator of egg quality, I'm proof that it isn't perfect.

Good luck with your IVF cycle, I hope you find at least one good egg!

vballbaby · December 2014

good luck to you as well @Twinkie0612! I guess what I meant, in my situation, was that I wish I were 30 so I could keep trying naturally for a bit longer, and temp and chart and really get to know things better, but at my age I don't have that luxury. I've gotten way too caught up in the stats of things that can go wrong at my age so I'm going to try to turn my negative thoughts into good thoughts. A good friend of mine who's a homeopathic Dr. has been trying to encourage me to do acupuncture but I know nothing about doing it while going through the IVF process so I need to research that. If anyone has any experience with that, I'd love to hear it.

vballbaby · December 2014

p.s. I totally didn't mean to offend anyone saying "I wish I were 30" because I know age doesn't always mean it's an easy path, so my apologies if it came out that way. But I do wish I were still 30 for other reasons hehe. The main one being, I wish I still had my 30 year old sex drive, that's for certain!!

tptbabe · December 2014

It's easy to look back and say that you wish that you did something differently, but if you were off birth control for a few years (without charting) you were likely hitting your fertile window for at least half of those cycles regardless. So that would equal probably a year and a half to two years of excellent timing.

Maybe you could think of it as saving yourself the stress of temping (if you're the type where that would stress you out?) and the money on OPKs and a BBT

tumbleweed123 · December 2014

vballbaby said:

I actually asked my dr about that and he said they can't /don't do that because it destroys the embryos. I wonder why some clinics do and some don't. That's actually been bothering me. There's got to be a reason behind it. Thanks for the info I plan on doing more research.

It seems really strange to me that your RE won't test the embryos. I would seriously discuss this with him/her. If your RE has a good lab, they should be able to biopsy and send out for testing. If you are in a town with more than one RE, and your current RE will not test, I would seriously consider getting a second opinion, if testing is important to you.

BootsOrHearts · December 2014

**Ticker warning**

I was in the same boat, when we first went to see an RE, I was over 35 and we had been 'trying' for over 6 months but I wasn't charting (I was so ill-informed about my own fertility and cycles when I think back on it). I tried to use OPKs but I rarely got a positive so I thought I wasn't ovulating consistently. Turns out (once I started charting) I O just fine every month, I just didn't know how to monitor my fertility signs and I learned the hard way that FMU for OPKs does not work for me, I only get positives in the afternoon.

You have to do what feels right for you. If you're ready for IVF then go for it. And hopefully it will work and you'll never have to worry about charting (unless you want to try for more), and if it doesn't, then try charting for a few months before you try again. Yes age is a factor, but in the scope of things a few months won't make any difference either so if you feel better trying on your own for a few months, then go for it and know that IVF is your plan B.

Good luck whatever you choose! And if you need charting help, there are lots of us who are Fertility Friend 'vets' haha!

Davie813 · December 2014

I really don't think you're rushing into IVF, just being realistic and giving yourself the best chance of success. I don't know that anyone is excited about the IVF process itself, but I very much doubt that anyone who is successful that way spends time looking back and wishing she had conceived her children differently.

As @BootsorHearts mentions, you can always reconsider your options if this cycle doesn't work, but of course I hope it does. FX for you!

vballbaby · December 2014

@tumbleweed123, I have a nurse consult today so I'll be asking more q's but from what I can gather from researching online, these tests can run anywhere from $2,500 - $7,000 and is usually not covered by insurance and aren't always accurate. @bootsorhearts thank you. I think I just started overthinking things. I'm ready to give IVF a shot, and if it doesn't work, I'm guessing they want you to take a month or two off so I can always try temping then and see what happens. Dr.'s outlook was grim on me trying to conceive naturally, he said like 1 or 2% change in a cycle. IVF for me is only a 15% chance of a live birth. @davie813 you're right I'm not rushing, I'm 42 and sometimes I forget that!

tumbleweed123 · December 2014

*****losses mentioned****

@vballbaby - yep most insurance will not cover the testing -- and depending on which test you do, there are varying levels of accuracy. I'm testing (cost of about 5K for me, using CGH testing) because I have had multiple losses and zero live births. My last loss was because of a proven chromosomal error in the embryo. Personally, for me, the 5K is worth it, because every miscarriage costs me about 2 or 3K in co-insurance/co-pays and generally about 3 or 4 months for my body to recover. So, 5K is really nothing, when factoring in how much suffering might be avoided. statistically, my RE says that a chromosomally normal embryo from a women in her early 40's has a 1 in 4 chance of leading to a live birth. An untested embryo from a women in her early 40's has, I believe, he said, about a 1 in 8 chance of leading to a live birth. So, it's really a numbers game. Obviously, this is all so personal, and ultimately you need to be ok with whatever you choose. For me, though, and maybe this is at least informative/helpful in some way to you, I just would do anything to avoid another miscarriage. It doesn't look like you have a loss history, so perhaps none of these worries are relevant to you -- which is great! The main thing is that you should know that IF you want to test, you should have the right to -- and your clinic should support that. I hope you get some answers from your nurse today! I'm sorry that you are feeling up against the wall on all this. I hope you find a good plan soon!

vballbaby · December 2014

@tumbleweed123 thanks so much! And I'm so sorry for all of your losses, that's gotta be so painful. I'm hoping the best for you now and that the testing will help! When do you do your transfer? Sorry if I didn't catch that part. I did get some answers today though, the nurse explained to me today that they DO offer PGD (pre genetic diagnosis) screening and it runs about $5K out of pocket. However, she said if we do that we can't do a fresh transfer, they would have to send them off for testing and freeze them, and I'm assuming wait another cycle before putting them in. I think at this point, I'm comfortable taking my chances at the least with the first round. I have not experienced a loss yet (and thinking positively that won't happen) but what will be, may be, so we'll give it a shot. At least I know now that they offer it. I start stimming Jan 2nd and I was surprised that they said NO exercise while you're stimming and up until you do the pregnancy test, so basically a whole month! wow, well hopefully I can at least go walking?? I didn't specifically ask that but she said no volleyball, no yoga, no weights etc. I'm guessing that's normal. I was hoping to at least keep up with yoga while stimming to take any crazy person edge off

Thanks so much to all the ladies that offered insight and help on this thread, I must say I'm feeling much more optimistic and positive about everything, instead of focusing on the negatives (like mourning not being able to conceive naturally) and I go to my first acupuncture appt tomorrow so I'm excited about that (also ran it by the head nurse and she was all for it).

tumbleweed123 · December 2014

vballbaby glad you got some answers! I think your plan sounds good -- so glad that you are feeling better about everything as you proceed. FX for you!

I think you'll find that as you start stims that you might not want to exercise too much. I definitely felt some discomfort once those eggs got growing! I'm a big runner, so I understand your desire to keep exercising! I'm sure your doc will say that walking is just fine - if that's any concession.

vballbaby · December 2014

@tumbleweed123 yea it's a pretty depressing thought, not being able to do anything but I'll definitely make the most of the walking to decompress. And until then, I'm allowed a little wine

At least I can have some champagne on New Years. So you already got your biopsy pgd test done, then went to freeze so now you're waiting for transfer? So you had to wait a cycle to wait out the testing?

tumbleweed123 · December 2014

vballbaby I just had egg retrieval, so I'm waiting to see how many make it to freeze. After that, the biopsies will be sent out for testing. About two weeks after that, the results come back. If we have normals, we'll transfer sometime in January. In general, one has to wait six weeks before the FET. It's a long process!

vballbaby · December 2014

@tumbleweed123 gotcha! well good luck with everything!

vballbaby · December 2014

@Sunshinelady15‌ thank you. I would like to think they would have gone over that eventually without me having to ask...you would think. We still have to go in and sign all our waivers and I don't start stimming until jan 2. I did see it in the waivers about the testing so maybe we just haven't gotten there yet? Ahh. I've thought about a second opinion but at this point since I've already paid for meds etc how much of this entire process would I have to redo and re pay for? Three of my friends have gotten pregnant through him and they all loved him. I like him but not like over the moon. Maybe they say that because they've gotten pregnant. One friend is 44. Lots to think about. I think you always have to be your own/best advocate in any health situation. I've witnessed that with my sisters epilepsy situation hats for sure. I guess i have some thinking to do. Thanks for all your input.

Davie813 · December 2014

@vballbaby, I'm actually not doing any genetic testing this time around (and I'm 40). My RE did discuss it with us and offer the option, but actually did not recommend it for me, in spite of my age. I think her reservations were that she feels the process yields more false positives (and false negatives) than she thinks is acceptable, that it is hard on embryos, and that it doesn't increase the odds much more than simply transferring more embryos.

Of course, if this cycle doesn't work, we may revisit it.

Everyone (and their history) is different, and so is what's right for them, but I wouldn't panic yet. I would ask him about it, though.

vballbaby · December 2014

Yea at this point I'm going to stick with him and see how it goes. We did do the Recombine genetic screening to see if we are carriers for any genetic diseases ($300 each) and we are not so at least we have that For some confidence.

probably going to throw caution to the wind the first try and hope for the best. But you are all right in that no one should go through all this with their eyes shut and not knowing all of the options that's for damn sure!!!! I'm so thankful for all of you, for all your support and knowledge. You really do have to be your own advocate in many situations. ESP when it comes to health.

Regrets that I didn't temp and chart before ivf

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