Just a fun story to share and asking for opinions

oliv0026 · December 2014

I just had to share this story...

So, I had a wedding gown I never wore as I ended up getting married in the court only with a blue dress. This wedding gown was sitting in the closet using a huge space and now that we are getting the bedroom ready for our coming kids I had to get rid of it. I posted it on Craigslist actually a few weeks ago and no one showed interest on it and I was about to just give it away (I paid 500 on that thing). Well, last night this woman contacted me interested on the dress for her daughter. She was really hoping it would fit her as she couldnt afford a dress from the store and the dresses she found were not clean or looking nice. As we talked I mentioned to her why I was selling the dress and that is when she shared with me that she was adopted with her twin sister from the MN waiting Children when she was 5! Of course I started with one million questions and she was nice enough to answer everything. I was so excited to meet someone like her that has grown to be a great adult with a beautiful daughter!

They came in today and when I saw the girl I thought " crap, she is short! the dress wont work!" but turns out it fitted her perfectly! I sold to her for a very small price as she couldnt afford much, actually I almost gave her for free but my DH would be mad at me if I did that... Her daughter is my age and she has 4 kids of her own! I dont know what impressed me more, her age or how many kids she had because when I first saw her I thought she was on early 20s and she is actually 30!

Anyway, one of the things I had to ask that woman was if she had an open adoption and if she kept contact with her Birth Parents. I was very impressed when she told me she had the option of seeing her bith parents but she chose not to and she never wanted to see them again. I didnt want to ask why but I am thinking she didnt have good memories from them which is very said. She also told me she was very scared her birth parents would ever find her and she was happy the couple who adopted her lived far from the city in a farm. She said she felt happy and safe there with her sister. Isn`t this sad? She told me to be very careful with that.

That makes me ask, if the kids are very young, yet have memories of the birth parents, but are not able to verbalize their feelings, how do we know if the open adoption is the best for them? How do we know that having them keep in touch with the birth family is making them happy or sad?

Anyone here have this experience? Anyone has and open adoption with older kids ? I would love to hear some different experience or opinions...

oliv0026 · December 2014

Well, Pinkie you are correct I might have used the word incorrectly, but what I was trying to say is that I thought that woman would say she wanted to meet her birth mom and be with her. I was impressed, maybe surprised? That she had such negative thought about her birth family. Why do I come across negative?

Bookworm92, you always post comments to me in which I feel you are always attacking me. Why is that? I am not involved in your adoption. I am not judging why you made the decision you made. I am not judging you in anyway at all! This post was meant to people who are working with foster to adopt and I wanted to hear their experience and thoughts. Your case is different!

Let me just make something clear here; I am not doing Infant adoption exactly because I dont think I have the right mindset for this type of adoption. I am going through Waiting Children Program in which is very very different from Infant adoption. When I started the process, I must admit I was very closed and did not want any contact with birth family before, but then I learned more and more and as I educate myself I am learning that these kids have a past that must not be erased. I learned that in some cases having contact with birth family is actually healthy. What makes me nervous is that in this adoption, we dont have a "contract" that makes me visit the birth family every certain time. I am actually the one who decides that, but then, how do I know when the visits are good or bad for my kids? I really want to do whatever is best for my kids no matter what. That was my original question! I dont want to force my kids to do anything and I want to make sure I am not holding them from anything that can be good for them either. IF you read my post and if you truly have been following me, this has been my question all this time. If you are not sure what is the Waiting Children program, maybe you want to do a little research and then you will understand why I have all these questions. I will ask you thought to please, stop attacking me so much over here. I know there will be all the people here who like to protect you that will attack me too, but I am not here to be negative or judge. I am here looking for people with similar experience than mine that can share what they have done and maybe find some help to make the best decision possible for my kids. I am looking for positive comments that will make me feel netter when everyone else around me is putting me down just like you do when that happens to you. I will just ask you please, if you dont know what I am talking about and you cant answer my questions or help me, just skip it. It is amazing how people say "After reading bookworm`s post" I get attacked (at least I feel like) and I dont even know why!

oliv0026 · December 2014

Spooko, Thank you for your post. That is the kind of help I am looking for!

oliv0026 · December 2014

Bookworm, I dont think you realize how judgmental you are being. I think my husband and I have been doing a pretty good job on the adoption process and how it is. No, I might not know 100% of what is coming, I might be coming here everyday asking for help just as I do now, but more often. What I do know is that we are committed to these kids regardless of how hard it will be. No matter what we have to give up on, once we take these kids, we will sacrifice whatever to be able to provide them a happy and healthy life. Yes, it will be hard. I know! Specially when I am still in school and it is not like we have a bunch of money laying around, but we know we can provide a loving, health, and safe environment for our kids. I dont even have these kids and I already love them to death. All what I want to do is whatever is best for them.

Thank you for your concerns though. Your views are very interesting to me.

oliv0026 · December 2014

Anyway, I will just apologize if I came across so negative. That was not my intention at all. I was just sharing something that happened to me this morning. I thought it was funny how this woman got to me, the dress fitting her daughter perfectly and what she shared about her adoption experience just made me think how I should know if I have a child that isnt comfortable being with the birth family. That was all.

And Bookworm, I still think it is not right for you to judge and say what is right or wrong for a person that you dont know. You read couple of my posts and that was all. That doesnt say who I am and what I need.

oliv0026 · December 2014

Okay, I am honestly trying to understand here what is going on. I told a story of what happened and made a question. Can you please point out to me what part was so offensive that made you get all mad?

Maybe you can tell me how I could have rephrased the post?

olp920 · December 2014

"I was very impressed when she told me she had the option of seeing her bith parents but she chose not to and she never wanted to see them again. "

'Impressed' is not the word I would use here. It sounds like you are happy and proud that she didn't want to know her birth parents. That's he only part that made me cringe a little. The sentence afterward makes me think you use impressed differently than I would.

Dr.Loretta · December 2014

I'm going to address a couple of things here, so forgive me if this sounds a bit rambly.

The first thing that put me off was that you were excited to see this woman grew up to be a great adult with a beautiful daughter. That implies that this isn't expected from kids who were adopted. Some of us (myself included) have gotten that from people: "Oh, I know so-and-so who was adopted, and he turned out so smart!" Um, OK.

Another thing I found odd was that you said you were impressed she didn't want to see her birth family, and that she expressed a (mostly mythological) fear that they would come back for her someday. That description just perpetuates the myth of birth families swooping in years after a legal, ethical adoption and stealing a child away.

I think your post also reflected some ignorance of how all this works. Note I said ignorance, which isn't necessarily a negative term. We all go into this with a certain level of it.

As for your questions, one thing to remember is that adoption, even if it was a super positive experience, still has a component of loss. The birth family has lost the ability to raise their child. The child has lost the ability to be raised by their first parents. The adoptive family experiences losses as well, and has to navigate any sense of loss their child feels. And you know what? It's OK to be sad about it sometimes. It's OK for adoptive parents to wish they had a different level of contact/interaction with their child's birth family. It's OK for the child to sometimes wish they were with their birth family. Or to wish their adoptive family was their only family. And to switch back and forth between those feelings. As long as you deal with their emotions appropriately, it's OK for them to be happy and sad about any openness in adoption.

If you're going through the Waiting Child Program, my understanding is they are legally free for adoption, correct? So any openness may be a moot point, as my understanding is that these children have had parental rights terminated.

I think you would be wise to research what open adoption means, in its many forms. Open adoption can be as basic as exchanging letters and pictures through an agency, with no actual contact. Or just having information about the birth family. On the other end, you have birth families and adoptive families who know each other intimately and visit regularly. And a lot of in-betweens. Open adoption for YOUR child may mean there's more remote communication. Or there's communication with extended family. You won't really know until you get there.

This type of question also makes me think of posters such as CaptainSerious, who adopted 2 older boys internationally. She has talked extensively about wanting a closed adoption, but over time realizing that her children yearn for their birth families, and she has no information to give them. Which breaks her heart. And other adoptive parents have grieved the loss of "ideal" birth families and come to have at least an understanding that they were doing the best they could under the circumstances.

I hope that helps clarify some things for you. I wasn't necessarily offended by your post, and we welcome discussions such as this. We do occasionally get some trolls who want to set the board on fire, so we tend to sometimes tread cautiously with newbies.

alishakay · December 2014

I think the word impressed was referring to her having the option to see the birth family...considering this would have been 50+ years ago when open adoptions didn't happen? I don't think she was referring to her choosing not to that impressed her. A word choice doesn't deserve all of this. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone choosing not to be in contact with their birth family. My husband was adopted 35 years ago, he is grateful and thankful for his birth family's choice, although he has not an ounce of wondering or wanting to contact them. I don't know why this is not acceptable? And not every birth family wants to be contacted either. I think we ALL need to realize that adoption comes in all shapes and sizes, there may be a wrong way as it keeps being focused on, but there isn't always a right way to do things either, it's circumstantial in a lot of cases. I had to comment because some of the things and way people have been treated I've seen lately on this board have been in my eyes ridiculous. So many speak of the insensitivity people use when speaking about adoption but the insensitivity they receive in return isn't okay. This is a support board not a one person highway to the way they think every adoption should be...because that's never going to happen, we don't live in a perfect world, and you can't "fix" everything. We won't all be on the same page, but we can be supportive, and we can help others without making them feel as if they're the worst person in the world!

oliv0026 · December 2014

Thank you. I didnt realize I was being so offensive, but I really hope for some positive comments and help. If I am to be scared of every word I say here, maybe this isnt really the place for me...

I have been told that EM and BM leave this board because of people like me, I have been called insensitive, ignorant, and other things. I dont know how this is to support.

Thank you for those who helped me understand what was wrong with the post. I do not know how much more I can apologize. I never knew there were so many BM and EM here that would get offended at anything one say. How dare o me to use a wrong word? That is insane! One wrong word and you are called so many names. One wrong word and I am a horrible person. Me, a person who loves kids so much, who loves to help everyone, who likes to make a difference in people`s life, who would never hurt a fly because I believe everything has the right to life. How dare of me to use one wrong word. Oh, and if I have a grammar mistake? No, that cant happen because everyone else here writes so perfectly.

I really think it is or the best to leave this board so BM and EM and others can feel more comfortable without such ignorant comments like mine. I am sorry to all of those that were offended by me.

blackbird818 · December 2014

oliv0026 said:

Thank you. I didnt realize I was being so offensive, but I really hope for some positive comments and help. If I am to be scared of every word I say here, maybe this isnt really the place for me...
I have been told that EM and BM leave this board because of people like me, I have been called insensitive, ignorant, and other things. I dont know how this is to support.
Thank you for those who helped me understand what was wrong with the post. I do not know how much more I can apologize. I never knew there were so many BM and EM here that would get offended at anything one say. How dare o me to use a wrong word? That is insane! One wrong word and you are called so many names. One wrong word and I am a horrible person. Me, a person who loves kids so much, who loves to help everyone, who likes to make a difference in people`s life, who would never hurt a fly because I believe everything has the right to life. How dare of me to use one wrong word. Oh, and if I have a grammar mistake? No, that cant happen because everyone else here writes so perfectly.
I really think it is or the best to leave this board so BM and EM and others can feel more comfortable without such ignorant comments like mine. I am sorry to all of those that were offended by me.

GBCB

bbyskittels · December 2014

Word choice is very important, even when it is my own opinion. I realize that by being open minded about something, it doesn't save me from saying something ignorant. It's hard to read what we say from someone else's perspective. They may feel sad and read something and it conveys a different message than if they read it happy.
It's a general rule I keep for myself, to re-read, because my words can hurt others whether I mean to or not.

I do agree with pp, that the child will let us know when they are not comfortable with seeing BM, etc. That may change with time too, and may become positive. All difficult challenges ahead.

@Dr.Loretta what you said strikes such a chord with me. One that makes me look in the mirror humbly. What "scares" me about an open adoption? Is it really the social myth of having the birth family take them back?
I think it brings me back to what I thought when DH told me he wants to adopt. Like I mentioned in my intro, lots of introspection led me to understand my relationship with the child will be special just like with their BM. Different, and that's ok. Just because we don't share dna doesn't mean we don't belong to each other.
So, I don't know if open or closed is "better" or "best." I think I'll mull over why I would want either now.

Eta: by either, I mean which is better for us and our future family.

redandblue · December 2014

Being. Newbie here and having lurked for a while I have to agree with some of @alishakay‌ comments. I have noticed some very negative responses and 'attacking' type comments. This is why I lurked for a while to try to get a feel for this board. After reading this thread I feel a lot of us could perhaps benefit from practicing 'I statements' when responding. It may help soften what you perceive as supportive feedback. I honestly need to say that I am looking for a community to help through our journey into adoption, but unfortunately don't know if this board it the right place. It is too bad there are not more adoption related boards that people could go to for support, like the different TTC boards. Reading the posts do not give me a supportive feeling or open vibe. Sorry. Just my opinion from a newbie who has lurked for a while.

PKP30 · December 2014

I am new to this board and have been just looking at the posts. I promise I will introduce myself soon!

Anyway, what I find interesting in this case is how people concentrated on an incorrect word choice even after this person said she was sorry, but only one post answered her original question "how do we know if the open adoption is the best for them? How do we know that having them keep in touch with the birth family is making them happy or sad?

Anyone here have this experience? Anyone has and open adoption with older kids ?"

PKP30 · December 2014

Okay, I am sorry. I did not mean to offend you Spooko.

alishakay · December 2014

Right on! This board is an adoption board, for the entire triad, not just a board for EM and BM. Adoptive parents or those waiting should be able to post a question here and feel safe. Getting an answer that is educating is helpful, I've learned a lot here, but there have been times that I've been hurt here and that shouldn't be the case for anyone. When I ask an adoption related question, it's not a personal attack on EM or BM, maybe my question is specific to the BM in my life and maybe I'm just seeking advice on if anyone else has had that experience. I may not be looking for someone to tell me how it should be handled. We need help, maybe we need educated, maybe we didn't sit down and read through a thousand books before we adopted because we wanted a family so badly and were busy filling out tons of paperwork and cleaning our house with a fine tooth comb and getting fingerprinted 5 times and going over and over again how we were going to afford this journey. My point is, you can talk to someone, as some kindly do, without putting them in a place where they need to feel as if they must defend themselves. I've been there, and a simple apology has not always been a solution.

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