Winesday Wednesday

cagoldi · December 2014

I have a UO for tomorrow that will likely be very divisive, but I can't keep it in any longer.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

My popular opinion: @cagoldi should start a UO thread today!! It's cold and rainy And I need something to do.

UntaggableKatie · December 2014

I vote for a UO Wednesday especially for @cagoldi!

cagoldi · December 2014

@klongoria11‌ I sent her a TB PM. She was on that day and posting in a couple threads so I hoped she would see it.

sands42 · December 2014

Maybe she's only mobile and didn't see? I just stalked the FB page and can't figure it out... I'm bored.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

@cagoldi I wanna know the uo!

UntaggableKatie · December 2014

Grab the popcorn?

PeachsMama · December 2014

@MotherEFFingKatie‌ I can't open your thread again because I don't have time at work to read the whole thing and my OCD is in full swing today so I can't not finish a thread.. But I wanted to tell you I'm glad you got a diagnosis and wish you the best in making decisions for treatment!

[Deleted User] · December 2014

@Dapostrophe‌ how old is ds2?

cagoldi · December 2014

@Sing2phins I'm fairly certain you will agree with the opinion. I don't know how unpopular it is, but I think some people will really dig in their heels. We'll see.

Yay!! A @Dapostrophe sighting!!!

[Deleted User] · December 2014

cagoldi said:
@Sing2phins I'm fairly certain you will agree with the opinion. I don't know how unpopular it is, but I think some people will really dig in their heels. We'll see.

Yay!! A @Dapostrophe sighting!!!

Can we do it today since there was no hdbd?

[Deleted User] · December 2014

Dapostrophe said:

Mommyxtwo1113 said:

@Dapostrophe‌ how old is ds2?

He's 2 1/2, so he hadn't been FF very long. He doesn't flail and arch his back the same way he used to, so it's easier to get him in RF than it ever was before. Just in time for E to start pitching a monkey fit every time she gets in the carseat

We turned DD forward facing at 2, but I was wondering if people were moving their older kids back to RF. I think I would if she was still that young, but she'll be 4 in March.

cagoldi · December 2014

Geez! The peer pressure! I can't take it!!!

I think conservatives have a knee jerk reaction to defend LE. As conservatives, our default position is generally to be skeptical of the government and government agents, but this is not usually the case with police officers and I don't understand it. I realize they have to make quick decisions, but if they make the wrong decision it can leave you imprisoned or dead. Apparently they can hide behind faulty training. It kind of feels like they can mete out extrajudicial punishments and people that care about the rule of law should really start to pay attention.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

Okay, does anyone else's kid bang their head on the wall for fun? He thinks it's hilarious.

cagoldi · December 2014

@shanbp We do have quite a few by TB standards, I think, and I'm interested in their thoughts. It's puzzling to me.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

I agree with you @cagoldi for the majority of conservatives. I, however, (at least in the recent cases that have been in the media) have been suspicious of the LE.

mskatiep · December 2014

I don't consider myself conservative, but I think that the big picture needs to be considered here. Yes, we hear about LE mistakes and wrongdoings often because we are so connected via social media and news, but I don't think it is fair to paint all LE with the same brush. Yes, there are bad apples, but OVERALL I think that most LE try to make the best possible decisions in very stressful situations.

cagoldi · December 2014

Yeah Sing. That development sent me over the edge.

I am a conservative, so is Pete, but we find ourselves at odds with a lot of other RRs with this position. It's very inconsistent, if you ask me. The Kelly Thomas (Caucasian, mentally ill transient) beating in Fullerton a few years ago really solidified this for me.

Also, I am a white girl from Orange County that has had unpleasant encounters with police. I can only imagine how it must feel for a minority in a country and city that has a long history of persecution and malicious prosecution, police brutality, excessive force, etc.

UntaggableKatie · December 2014

Mommyxtwo1113 said:

Okay, does anyone else's kid bang their head on the wall for fun? He thinks it's hilarious.

Yes, and every time he does I threaten to put him in a padded room...

[Deleted User] · December 2014

cagoldi said:

Yeah Sing. That development sent me over the edge. I am a conservative, so is Pete, but we find ourselves at odds with a lot of other RRs with this position. It's very inconsistent, if you ask me. The Kelly Thomas (Caucasian, mentally ill transient) beating in Fullerton a few years ago really solidified this for me. Also, I am a white girl from Orange County that has had unpleasant encounters with police. I can only imagine how it must feel for a minority in a country and city that has a long history of persecution and malicious prosecution, police brutality, excessive force, etc.

I'm right there with you @cagoldi.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

Today sucks. I'm barely making it through work. I had to cancel my therapy appointment. I'm physically exhausted. It's been a trail just to move around the house. I've also been farting all day. That's the worst part. I CAN'T STOP FARTING! !!!!

[Deleted User] · December 2014

I also haven't read anything yet. Hi!

cagoldi · December 2014

mskatiep said:
I don't consider myself conservative, but I think that the big picture needs to be considered here. Yes, we hear about LE mistakes and wrongdoings often because we are so connected via social media and news, but I don't think it is fair to paint all LE with the same brush. Yes, there are bad apples, but OVERALL I think that most LE try to make the best possible decisions in very stressful situations.

I agree with this, but like Foxy said, it's the knee jerk reaction to defend them that is bothersome to me. When someone dies as a result of their actions it should be investigated.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

@cagoldi YGPM

[Deleted User] · December 2014

I'm trying to go back and skim through the thread because there seems to be an interesting conversation going on but all my love fits aren't showing up so just imagine my tits everywhere you look

mskatiep · December 2014

cagoldi said:

mskatiep said:
I don't consider myself conservative, but I think that the big picture needs to be considered here. Yes, we hear about LE mistakes and wrongdoings often because we are so connected via social media and news, but I don't think it is fair to paint all LE with the same brush. Yes, there are bad apples, but OVERALL I think that most LE try to make the best possible decisions in very stressful situations.
I agree with this, but like Foxy said, it's the knee jerk reaction to defend them that is bothersome to me. When someone dies as a result of their actions it should be investigated.

I agree that deaths should result in an investigation. Although I'm pretty sure that every officer involved shooting/death is investigated BUT not necessarily by the right people.

cagoldi · December 2014

I'm just going to go ahead and say I am sure race does okay a role in many of the stories we've heard about recently. My bigger problem is that I do believe there are plenty of officers that think they are above reproach, and the fact that no one us getting indicted for these incidents probably lends to that.

**Trigger Warning**

Fullerton PD has been under investigation for the rape of young white women. You don't have to be a young black kid to be victimized by LE.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

LJGS1010 said:

I mean, is anyone following the Tamir Rice story? It's ridiculous.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2854617/Cops-shot-12-year-old-Tamir-Rice-dead-holding-BB-gun-did-not-aid-watched-lie-agony-died-just-hours-later.html

LE has basically been trying to lie their way out of it (saying he was with a group when he was actually alone, saying that they told him to raise his hands three times when they actually pulled up and almost immediately shot him). He was 12. The cop who shot him then gave him no first aid, until the FBI showed up 4 minutes later.

Yea, this is hands down shady. I mean the video IMO shows that something went VERY wrong on the cops end...I have a hard time believing he had no other options.

cagoldi · December 2014

mskatiep said:

cagoldi said:

mskatiep said:
I don't consider myself conservative, but I think that the big picture needs to be considered here. Yes, we hear about LE mistakes and wrongdoings often because we are so connected via social media and news, but I don't think it is fair to paint all LE with the same brush. Yes, there are bad apples, but OVERALL I think that most LE try to make the best possible decisions in very stressful situations.
I agree with this, but like Foxy said, it's the knee jerk reaction to defend them that is bothersome to me. When someone dies as a result of their actions it should be investigated.
I agree that deaths should result in an investigation. Although I'm pretty sure that every officer involved shooting/death is investigated BUT not necessarily by the right people.

Yes, but why do so many people immediately defend the police officer before the circumstances have even been investigated? They have a dangerous job, I get it, but it's also kind of their job not to fucking kill innocent people.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

Guys I'm going to be 31 next week

and I'm feeling down about it. I didn't mind 30 cause I was sleep deprived from snuggling Luke the newborn all night but man 31 is hitting me hard for some reason.

cagoldi · December 2014

MotherEFFingKatie said:
Does anyone else not know what LE stands for?

Sorry. Law Enforcement.

mwhipple77 · December 2014

MotherEFFingKatie said:
Does anyone else not know what LE stands for?

This was me for the longest time while reading! Then POC came up as well, decided that stood for people/person of color? Hopefully.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

I have a lot of feelings. The most heart breaking conversation I ever heard was when my dad explained to my little brother why the N word applied to him but not his friends and what the kkk is. I used to love watching movies from the 20s and 30s. When I was young I remember refusing to watch any movie that was in color. I also remember the day when I realized that some of those movies were making fun of people who look like me.

One day I'm going to have to explain these things to my kids. I have to figure out how to make them open and accepting to others yet cautious. Caution especially towards law enforcement. I want them to trust in LE but be very aware that something could go wrong no matter how well they follow the rules. I don't know how to do that and it scares me.

cagoldi · December 2014

LJGS1010 said:
You definitely don't need to be a POC to be victimized by LE. But your definitely much more likely to to be than a white person.

Right. I think they have all the more reason to be suspicious of LE.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

@tgrimes1980‌ dh and I had almost the same conversation just re: officers wearing cameras/recorders

cagoldi · December 2014

MotherEFFingKatie said:
I think the baddies are the exception not the rule. But they should be investigated if there is an issue. But it's a slippery slope. You know there are assholes out there who cry wolf too. I am not victim blaming, that's just the truth. (I am definitely not referring to the cases that have been brought up here)

I guess my point is some people suck and some are victims on both sides. And both of the victims should be defended. Just, how do you figure it all out if there isn't video, etc?

I think LE is afforded a lot of latitude, and I don't feel it's a slippery slope to say that all claims of wrongdoing of any kind should be investigated. If, as a public servant working for the citizens of that city, one of those citizens has a complaint then it should be looked into.

It seems like a lot of these officers are not getting indicted because they can say they acted in accordance with their training. We'll never know in all instances if that's true, but I rather doubt it. If it is true, then their training fucking sucks. I think requiring them to wear cameras on their person is a good step, but who will review the footage and what consequences will there be if they don't comply? Cameras in cars are a good tool also, but the Fullerton officers them off when they assaulted their female victims.

cagoldi · December 2014

Sing2phins said:
Also, fat lot of good the video evidence did Eric Garner.

Same with Kelly Thomas. He is sitting on a curb when the LE puts on gloves and says, "See these fists, I'm going to fuck you up." Then proceeds to stomp him to death.

cagoldi · December 2014

Sing2phins said:
I really really hate "I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't care if you erode my civil rights" argument. There's a straw man if I ever saw one.

Yes, yes, a million times yes. You have basic human and civil rights and you shouldn't just cede those to an agent of the government. Whether or not you are in commission of a crime is immaterial.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

@Sing2phins‌ I am assuming that you were responding to what I said or commented on re: my conversation with my dh. I am not saying that at all. I am saying that if officers are innocent having a camera on their person should be able to corroborate their innocence and protect them from false claims against them.

I also agree that this is not infallible but it would help more than hurt I believe.

cagoldi · December 2014

LJGS1010 said:

cagoldi said:

Sing2phins said:
I really really hate "I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't care if you erode my civil rights" argument. There's a straw man if I ever saw one.
Yes, yes, a million times yes.

Are street cameras a civil rights violation? Pretty sure there's no expectation of privacy....what am I not thinking of?

I can't begin to imagine how they are a violation, but you and all the other lawyer folk are smarter than me. I believe Sing was referencing concerns about cameras officers would wear on their person. Or we know there are always people who ask why didn't they just stop if they were doing nothing wrong, even if that hasn't been asked in this thread.

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