Vaccine Controversy, please discuss (edit for spelling)

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

Also, there are a lot of different HPV viruses, and the ones that cause genital warts are not the same strains that cause cervical and vulvar cancer. So just because a man doesn't have genital warts doesn't mean he isn't carrying other forms of HPV, the forms that are the most dangerous.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

I'm just wondering, if these reactions weren't reported in the VAERS, how and where were they documented? Are they anecdotal, or is there a study demonstrating these reactions? Forgive me if that's a dumb question, admittedly I don't know a whole lot about the reaction reporting system.

I'm not saing it's not true, I'm just curious because I'm interested in researching it further.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to read the first study about Japan because I don't have a medscape account, so I apologize if the answer was in that article.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

Actually when I wrote the 0.005% figure I got that from the figures of ALL 18,000 reported reactions from a total of 32 million. Those 18,000 were mostly mild reactions.

To my knowledge there have not been 18,000 cases of Guillain-Barre.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

*total of 32 million vaccinated, not 32 million reactions. Sorry I can't edit on my nook.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

When I first did the math of creating a percentage of 32 million, I did it by hand. Then I realized, wait, I suck at math. So I went online and double checked my math on a percentage calculator. Turns out, 18,000 is only 0.0005% of 32 million, not 0.005%. Keep in mind also that if your percentage of deaths from cervical cancer came from the us population of 316 million, that only about 110 million are adult women. Maybe you did take that into account, I don't know because as I said, I'm awful at math, and the calculator won't let me go above 8 digits, hah.

And yes, the numbers of reported reactions are a bit dated (from 2010), but so are the numbers of people vaccinated. More reactions may have occured since then, but more vaccinations have occured as well. So the overall percentage may not have increased.

There could very well be other serious reactions that doctors just aren't classifying as reactions, but there is no way to verify that without hard data on it. We can't verify that its causation, and not just correlation. Again, not saying its not true, and I'm open minded to exploring it more, but I would like to see data on that.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

Wait. Math comes out to 0.0005 but then must be multipled by 100 to get the percent. Which is 0.05%. I swear I'm not trying to deceive anyone I'm seriously just this bad at mad. Aand its 130 am. I apologize.

I still stand by my argument, however, that most of those are mild reactions, but everyone who has cervical cancer, even if they don't die, has serious permanent affects which can include risk of infertility and/or pregnancy loss.

Also yes much more than that probably have localized pain, but most won't bother going to the doctor and reporting it because they know its normal.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

18,000 is the number of people that reported those symptoms. Most of those were mild, such as fainting, dizziness, and pain. I am not suggesting that everyone who got pain reported it. Of course a higher percentage than 0.05% got localized pain. But of the 18,000 effects that were worth reporting, most were still mild.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

And on that note, I think its clearly time to get some sleep, since I messed up a bunch of numbers already.

I always appreciate a good scientific debate, even though we disagree, as being a way to learn a bit more about the subject, and I'm glad it has stayed civil and informative.

I plan to come back to it tomorrow with a hopefully higher functioning brain, good night.

MPKbaby237 · October 2014

I'm just now reading your HPV debate. Both of you are well-educated on the topic and inspired me to do research of my own, so thank you

Lol as far as the math goes, you lost me. But I get the point

OliveMom3 · October 2014

Two things: 1. the reason we have booster shots recommended at various intervals is because of immunity wearing off over time. 2. I'm not sure why the "newness" of a vaccine influences people to not get it. The flu vaccine is new every single year. The same methods and safety testing are required for all vaccines, regardless of the therapeutic area. For reference, I'm in pre-clinical drug and vaccine development in a government audited and accredited facility in Canada. We test drugs for safety and toxicology for companies that are members of the OECD (which includes the US FDA).

michellexsheree · October 2014

Amazing how many insults and rude comments come from a single post simply inquiring about others opinions on a matter that is on a lot of our minds. I was excited to read people's responses in hopes of learning more on the topic, as I am on the fence as to whether to vaccinate or not. Shame on some of you.

Aside from that, being that Ebola is a fresh issue in the US, I think that I would vaccinate (and I'm also coming to the decision that I will vaccinate against MMR, Poleo and other major diseases.)

I'm leaning toward NOT having my baby receive certain vaccinations like Hep B, and possibly Vitamin K, although I have heard you can request a preservative free version of it. I still need to do more research.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

Insults? Rude comments? From who? I have seen nothing but a intense but overall respectful debate. I don't know what you're referring to. Unless you think presenting scientific data is insulting?

rwalton1 · October 2014

It is terrifying, as a nurse and an even more now as an expectant mother, to know that other people's misinformed and selfish choices may have devastating effects on the health and well being of my family. Before I was pregnant, I would occasionally take care of people with mumps or rubella or other infectious diseases. It worried me, but I did not have an unborn child with little to zero immunity to worry about. As a caregiver, we are forced to get every vaccination imaginable to PROTECT the patients we take care of. It is incredibly selfish that people in this country chose not to vaccinate. For example, I know of more than a few young infants in the hospital system recently that have contracted whooping cough and have passed away from complications of the disease because they contracted it from an unvaccinated child. I am now expected to have an additional whooping cough vaccination at 28 weeks. And I'll do it, gladly. In my opinion, it should not be a choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate. Vaccinations are what seperate the US from plagues, rampant diseases and mass casualties. These childhood diseases are not as trivial as a common cold or even the flu. A single infected person affects hundreds or more within hours. If you want to make uninformed, negligent choices for your own family, find a way to do it without infecting mine. I don't even let my puppy play with other unvaccinated dogs... I know this is a controversial post, and people will likely be nasty and hateful, but is something that I am passionate about and I just don't care. As an educated, passionate, and well informed nurse, I will continue to educate my patients about the importance of and responsibility to your children and your community to vaccinate.

rwalton1 · October 2014

Thank you for your post. Also chickenpox, shingles, or varicella, are ALL deadly to my unborn child.

frenchyj · October 2014

Vaccinate and protect your kids and don't worry about what other's do. Can't change stupid anyway.

lneice0160 · October 2014

To any antivaxer: have you all thought about the children that medically cannot be vaxed or the children that aren't old enough to have received all of their vaxes? Those children rely on everyone one else to use common sense and vax their children. You dont just vax your kid to keep him/her safe you do it for everyone.
Your child(ren) are the most important thing in this world, its your responsibility as their parent to do any and everything in your power to keep them safe, why would you not do something as simple as a vaccine? I understand that some things doctors vax for are slight possibilities of our children catching but why not take a simple precaution? After all anything is possible.

lneice0160 · October 2014

@somerandomchick‌

https://m.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-exemptions-states-pertussis-map

I think everyone should read this. Thank you for posting!

Ncountrygal · October 2014

I really didn't want to open this post but I did; can I say in general I'm impressed with our conversation? Way to stick to evidence-based responses! We rock!

I do the same thing with this decision as I do with all medical decisions: do my research, weigh the pros and cons, talk to my doctor, and then decide. For me, it's a clear case that the benefits of immunity outweigh any unknown risks.

We do space out the vaccine load in the first year. Our babies get one or two vaccine doses every month rather than all of them every other month. I'll be the first to admit that is not an evidence-based decision on my part, just a gut-instinct thing. My veterinary friend anecdotally explained vaccine loads for animals based on body weight and I just would rather have baby deal with a smaller load more frequently than a big one while she's so little. My pediatrician didn't bat an eye about it.

frenchyj · October 2014

angi3o said:

frenchyj said:
Vaccinate and protect your kids and don't worry about what other's do. Can't change stupid anyway.
What about newborns?

Vaccinations begin when a child is a newborn. Not understanding your point? My post was quick and to the point- didn't feel the need to state "of course there are exceptions like children who CAN'T get vaccinated", so let me add the obvious in my original post.

If your child has the ability to receive vaccinations- get them.

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Vaccine Controversy, please discuss (edit for spelling)

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