Vaccine Controversy, please discuss (edit for spelling)

topaz7777 · October 2014

Ok, I'm going to do it... I thought all day about if I was going to make this post, but I feel like I need to ask this question to Anti-vaxers who do by choice and not by medical necessity.

With the recent Ebola cases in the US, if there was a vaccine for Ebola, would you want to vaccinate your child for that? Meaning, would it change your choice?

And what if you knew my DH worked at a hospital where an Ebola patient worked, or transported a confirmed Ebola patient to a hospital, and we were at the playground you and your infant are playing in?

How about if my children went to the same daycare as you? I mean it's transmitted through bodily fluids, and kids always have snot hanging out of their noses and get it on everything.

I know I'm starting a debate, but I really am curious if the fatality of this virus is scary enough that it would make an Anti-vaxer decide to choose to vaccinate.

crazychickenlady · October 2014

EDIT: Awe man. My Michael Jackson eating popcorn pic isn't working

SuperFudge00 · October 2014

Nope photo tumblr_inline_mj411sAZqm1qz4rgp_zpsd390ff17.gif

redneckmomma25 · October 2014

Maybe I am crazy but Ebola isn't really scaring me. Maybe It's me downplaying it so I don't stress over one more thing I have no control over. I'm a vaxer and I would not vaccinate against ebola because it would be such a new vaccine. Ebola isn't contagious until you are displaying symptoms. I would assume if your child was displaying symptoms they would not be in daycare. I also assume if your husband had possible exposure to ebola he would be quarantined . maybe that's me being naive again.

mrsmopar67 · October 2014

I think if you want to have an intelligent discussion, it might need to start with spelling words correctly.

kariemomo · October 2014

I plan to vaccinate my kinds, my husband and I didn't have any reactions when we were young. As for Ebola, it's probably because I'm in Japan but the only place you hear about it here is on American news stations, I think people are over reacting a little, and if it were bad where I was located, I would consider it. It Japan everyone wears surgical masks when they are sick or during flu season and less people are sick here. But from what I've heard is that the treatment would be after it's been contracted, like what the American patients have received.

I have never understood why people dont vaccinate for measles. It seems like some states have huge outbreaks and it just seems to dangerous.

redneckmomma25 · October 2014

Ebola has an r naught of 2 meaning 1 person spreads it to 2 people. Measles has an r naught of 18 meaning 1 person spreads it to 18 people. It is not spread quickly or easily.

topaz7777 · October 2014

Sorry, my bump doesn't have a button for spell check.

But I don't disagree, it's clearly not as contageous as many of the other things out there right now. I honestly didn't expect it to change any opinions but it has been getting a lot more media attention lately and I know that some people are scared about it. I actually feel better knowing that the stance taken isn't swayed by that.

I knew I would get some harsh comments from this thread, but I'm genuinely curious about the mindset.

inawe07 · October 2014

I vaccinate. But Ebola is harder to transmit person to person than say, the measles. And because of that is more rare. I would choose not to vaccinate against Ebola because I like my vaccines to be tried and tested. It would be way too new and likely rushed.

Our healthcare here compared to Western Africa is miles advanced. Our cultures are also very different. I honestly don't think you can compare the outbreak there to the one case (that I am aware of) here.

taahira · October 2014

Maybe a little more research into the facts of Ebola would have helped before posting this thread.

SuperFudge00 · October 2014

I'm in the ER so Ebola scares the shit out of me!!!!! I've been vaccinated for just about everything else.

redneckmomma25 · October 2014

I totally just typed out this whole long fb status about how I'm more concerned about pertussis than ebola and people who don't vaccinate but my brother is an anti vaxer and I just don't want the fight. Ugh. why can't I be more confrontational.

kitc101 · October 2014

redneckmomma25 said:
Maybe I am crazy but Ebola isn't really scaring me. Maybe It's me downplaying it so I don't stress over one more thing I have no control over. I'm a vaxer and I would not vaccinate against ebola because it would be such a new vaccine. Ebola isn't contagious until you are displaying symptoms. I would assume if your child was displaying symptoms they would not be in daycare. I also assume if your husband had possible exposure to ebola he would be quarantined . maybe that's me being naive again.

More people die each year from influenza than Ebola has killed in recorded history. So, I feel the same about Ebola not scaring me. It's also not in my immediate vacinity, though...

**edited because of stupid autocorrect

lneice0160 · October 2014

jmccoy18 said:
So I'm a vaxer, but I thought this article was very relevant....
Six Diseases That Should Worry Us More Than Ebola

This list is much scarier than Ebola..

I'm a vaxer and on a rescue squad and fd and honestly in my area if there was an Ebola vaccine I wounldnt get it, it's to new and to little is known about it. There's so much more to worry about, I do believe if we can prevent sickness for our children we should and I make sure that if DD gets a vaccine and I can receive it and update my vaccines I do it for her and if there's someone that seems sickly I go in the opposite direction and sanitize myself and child lol

miahbelle · October 2014

So I'm a selective vaxer. I do not follow the pediatricians suggested schedule, I picked my own (I don't really feel the need to stick my kid with twelve strains of sickness at once). I also am not giving flu or chicken pox vaccine. I do however have him vaccinated again things like pertussis, tetanus, polio, measles and so on. I don't see the need to vaccinate again the flu or chicken pox because honestly they really aren't that deadly (yes I have researched this, no you arguing with me won't change my mind).

steph77891 · October 2014

Don't vax, won't for ebola either. (Ready for onslaught of rants about how us anti vaxxers are all that's wrong with the world)

donnamartingraduates93 · October 2014

I have the feeling this will quickly turn into a food thread, so - instead- please enjoy this gif of a slow loris getting tickled and being adorable

miahbelle · October 2014

steph77891 said:
Don't vax, won't for ebola either. (Ready for onslaught of rants about how us anti vaxxers are all that's wrong with the world)

But, you don't explain why you don't vax... Yeah, so thanks for your intelligent contribution.

donnamartingraduates93 · October 2014

miahbelle said:

Don't vax, won't for ebola either. (Ready for onslaught of rants about how us anti vaxxers are all that's wrong with the world)
But, you don't explain why you don't vax... Yeah, so thanks for your intelligent contribution.

well if you look at her posting history, it is this and then a comment about how it was hilarious to her and her SO that their baby was born (or due) on 4/20, so I hope you aren't expecting a super thought-out compelling response.

vickersh1 · October 2014

clairhuxtable said:

Ebola is here in Dallas and I still wouldn't vaccinate my kid against it. Any vaccine they make now is just too new. I'd be uncomfortable. I'm treating Ebola like I do with anyone I suspect of having the flu. If you look feverish, sweaty, vomiting, etc, I'm going in the opposite direction. Because I'm a pregnant lady and I can't take any of the good drugs so I'm not trying to do what I can to not get sick this flu season.

I'm not far from Dallas and agree with you. I wouldn't vaccinate for it. Way too new. I think anyone with a fever now is being treated as though they have Ebola. There was a "low-risk" case here at a hospital a few miles from where I live. People are freaking out and blowing it way up and I get that it has the potential to be very scary. But we put ourselves at risk everyday by going outside and being around a bunch of people. I feel as though Ebola is no different and at this point, am not worrying about it.

Unknown · October 2014

This content has been removed.

Unknown · October 2014

This content has been removed.

SuperFudge00 · October 2014

somerandomchick said:

miahbelle said:
So I'm a selective vaxer. I do not follow the pediatricians suggested schedule, I picked my own (I don't really feel the need to stick my kid with twelve strains of sickness at once). I also am not giving flu or chicken pox vaccine. I do however have him vaccinated again things like pertussis, tetanus, polio, measles and so on. I don't see the need to vaccinate again the flu or chicken pox because honestly they really aren't that deadly (yes I have researched this, no you arguing with me won't change my mind).
Your kid can die from the flu or chicken pox, or can kill other people by passing it along to somebody, esp the immunocompromised. If your child gets the "harmless" chicken pox and passes it along to somebody who passes it along and it ends up in a house with an infant... Congratulations, you just killed somebody's baby.

Chicken pox and flu are both deadliest to those too young to be vaccinated. They rely on the herd immunity you are so cavalierly destroying. It's like driving around intoxicated--you're not just putting yourself at risk.

Pox are also more dangerous the older you get, which is why parents used to have pox parties.

palm513 · October 2014

I would not vaccinate my child for Ebola, not that big of a threat and way to new of a vaccine. And I am very pro-vaccine... I had a friend that is extremely anti-vaccine. And we used to have debates on facebook, over the phone, texting, in person, and on E-mail regularly.

I have a 2 and a half year old that has Aspergers (or for all of you that are up on current terminology high functioning Autism... I have dealt with the condition with the name of Aspergers for 14 years. So that is what I will always call it). He began evaluations at 9 months 3 months BEFORE receiving the MMR vaccine, and she repeatedly tells me that I gave it to him when he got that vaccine. Even though I know and the doctor knows he had it before he go the vaccine. Her mind will never be changed.

And now that the doctors think my oldest son is immunocompromised I have somewhat rudely informed her that not only can we not be friends but we can also no longer have mutual friends any child that hangs out at her house at all is not welcome around my kids.

tdmloverrn · October 2014

To say the flu isn't that deadly is crazy. In 2013-2014, 100 pediatric FLU related deaths were reported in the US. In 2012-2013, 9 infants died of Pertussis (Whooping Cough) in the US. (Found on the CDC website)

I think its safe to say, the FLU, is in fact deadly.

BabiesEverywhere · October 2014

palm513 said:
I would not vaccinate my child for Ebola, not that big of a threat and way to new of a vaccine. And I am very pro-vaccine... I had a friend that is extremely anti-vaccine. And we used to have debates on facebook, over the phone, texting, in person, and on E-mail regularly.

I have a 2 and a half year old that has Aspergers (or for all of you that are up on current terminology high functioning Autism... I have dealt with the condition with the name of Aspergers for 14 years. So that is what I will always call it). He began evaluations at 9 months 3 months BEFORE receiving the MMR vaccine, and she repeatedly tells me that I gave it to him when he got that vaccine. Even though I know and the doctor knows he had it before he go the vaccine. Her mind will never be changed.

And now that the doctors think my oldest son is immunocompromised I have somewhat rudely informed her that not only can we not be friends but we can also no longer have mutual friends any child that hangs out at her house at all is not welcome around my kids.

I can't believe she straight up told you that you gave your child Asperger's. What a horrible (and obviously misinformed) person.

lneice0160 · October 2014

@miahbelle.. You vax your child for measles but not chicken pox wtf really?? Did you know that the two are related? Or that you can easily contaminated other children or adults?
In my state in order to put you child in school you have to have he chicken pox vax thank god! People like you are the reason there's a need for the vaccine.
Not getting a chicken pox vaccine or flu vaccine is rediculous, and saying you did "research" and "neither are deadly enough" well both can be very deadly, where did you do your research?

jk3610 · October 2014

lneice0160 said:

Not getting a chicken pox vaccine or flu vaccine is rediculous, and saying you did "research" and "neither are deadly enough" well both can be very deadly, where did you do your research?

Jenny mccarthy's house of science

knitfastdiewarm · October 2014

Flu isn't deadly? So...the over 20 million people who died in the flu outbreak of 1918 and the estimated 53,000 deaths every year attributed to influenza and pneumonia are just a weird fluke? I don't understand where you are reading it's not that dangerous.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

@LynnaF, I agree, but will go on to say, it's even worse, the Spanish flu killed something between 50 and 100 million worldwide. Many of them young and otherwise healthy. The argument of "that was back before modern medicine" is a moot point. Actually, scientists have theorized that if the same strength influenza came back, it would have a similar mortality rate today. We haven't gotten a whole lot better at treating viruses since then.

Sure, we have better supportive care (IVs, ventilators for respiratory failure, etc) but if such a strong virus came back, with increased world travel and population, the health systems would be completely overwhelmed with sheer number of patients and the mortality rates would be devastating.

Also let's keep in mind the high mortality rates of H1N1 much more recently. Also, an influenza virus. Every year it is different strains of the flu that are prevalent, and so every year the vaccine is different. They predict which specific viruses to put in the vax as best they can based off of what crops up in China and are usually pretty successful, with some exceptions. All influenza viruses are serious, but the scary thing is, we never know how deadly this years flu virus is going to be. You cant necessarily predict mortality rates based off of previous years. It's a guessing game.

Hence, why I get the shot.

miahbelle · October 2014

mbm1983 said:
I should add the flu is generally what sets off other health problems for the elderly or other immuno-compromised people. So know they might not statistically die of the flu, but instead are written up for respitory (i cannot spell this today sorry) failure, heart failure, or something else.

This happened to my father in law. He got the flu, which turned to pneumonia, the resp. Failure.

My great grandmother got pneumonia within a few days of her flu and pneumonia vax every single time they gave it to her. Eventually, the pneumonia became so bad she had to be put on a feeding tube because she wouldn't breath properly and would breath food into her lungs. She died of complications from this. So don't lecture me on flu shots. I already told you, you won't change my mind.
As for the comments about the "not that deadly", cars are way more deadly than the flu, as are many many other day to day things. Technically everything can be deadly in a way. It is estimated that 100 children died fr the flu over the last flu season (extremely sad yes), but over 1,500 were killed by neglect.
I think the dangers of putting those extra "ingredients" included in the vax outweigh the potential good it could do. I think it's best to weigh the bad bad good. As I said, you won't change my mind.

lneice0160 · October 2014

miahbelle said:

mbm1983 said:
I should add the flu is generally what sets off other health problems for the elderly or other immuno-compromised people. So know they might not statistically die of the flu, but instead are written up for respitory (i cannot spell this today sorry) failure, heart failure, or something else.

This happened to my father in law. He got the flu, which turned to pneumonia, the resp. Failure.
My great grandmother got pneumonia within a few days of her flu and pneumonia vax every single time they gave it to her. Eventually, the pneumonia became so bad she had to be put on a feeding tube because she wouldn't breath properly and would breath food into her lungs. She died of complications from this. So don't lecture me on flu shots. I already told you, you won't change my mind.
As for the comments about the "not that deadly", cars are way more deadly than the flu, as are many many other day to day things. Technically everything can be deadly in a way. It is estimated that 100 children died fr the flu over the last flu season (extremely sad yes), but over 1,500 were killed by neglect.
I think the dangers of putting those extra "ingredients" included in the vax outweigh the potential good it could do. I think it's best to weigh the bad bad good. As I said, you won't change my mind.

First no one said they were trying to change your mind...everyone was just stating the dangers not only to your kids but everyone else you may come in contact with if you happen to be carrying the germ.

Second if your grandmother got pneunomia every single time then why did she keep doig it and why did whoever gave it to her keep giving it to her?

Third technically everything can be dangerous yes, but thats why people take precautions to make sure the accidents don't happen such as vaccines. And if cars are so much deadlier than a couple vaccines, please tell me you don't drive because obviously you wouldn't put you child in that kind of danger, especially if you don't give them a vaccine since the viruses aren't that deadly that kill people also.

SuperFudge00 · October 2014

miahbelle said:

mbm1983 said:
I should add the flu is generally what sets off other health problems for the elderly or other immuno-compromised people. So know they might not statistically die of the flu, but instead are written up for respitory (i cannot spell this today sorry) failure, heart failure, or something else.

This happened to my father in law. He got the flu, which turned to pneumonia, the resp. Failure.
My great grandmother got pneumonia within a few days of her flu and pneumonia vax every single time they gave it to her. Eventually, the pneumonia became so bad she had to be put on a feeding tube because she wouldn't breath properly and would breath food into her lungs. She died of complications from this. So don't lecture me on flu shots. I already told you, you won't change my mind.
As for the comments about the "not that deadly", cars are way more deadly than the flu, as are many many other day to day things. Technically everything can be deadly in a way. It is estimated that 100 children died fr the flu over the last flu season (extremely sad yes), but over 1,500 were killed by neglect.
I think the dangers of putting those extra "ingredients" included in the vax outweigh the potential good it could do. I think it's best to weigh the bad bad good. As I said, you won't change my mind.

ETA: gif is at your logic, not your great grandmother.

Cali2090 · October 2014

Funny story- I was vaccinated for MMR when kids are supposed to be and just got a call from my doctor saying I'm not immune. Lovely.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

In regards to the HPV vaccine, that is your personal choice. I don't get too riled up about that one, because it doesn't affect other people as much in terms of herd immunity. It pretty much just affects your kid and their future partners. I understand why people have qualms about it, as its relatively new.

I will say, however, that when I was 16/17, my mom declined having the shot given to me at the pediatrician, and discouraged me from ever getting it, and looking back I wish she hadn't. When I turned 18 I didn't think about it because I thought hpv is an std, and you have to be promiscuous to get stds (unfortunately a common misconception), so it wouldn't happen to me.

I was very responsible sexually. Protection, always. Monogamous relationships. I always got my yearly pelvics and paps. Other than get the hpv vaccine, I did everything they say you should do. It didn't stop me from getting pre-cancerous lesions on my vulva which required months of painful treatments, left permanent scarring, and now gives me an increased risk of both vulvar and cervical cancer. The lesions are caused by HPV. The virus can remain dormant for years, so you can still get it even if you're in a monogamous relationship. Even if you wear a condom. You don't have to be promiscuous for it to happen to you. I'm not saying any of you suggested you do, it's just I know it's a common misconception.

I hope this wasn't TMI to anyone, I just want to say, if you are leary of Gardasil when your kids are young, I don't blame you and I am passing no judgment on you at all. All I would say is, when your daughters (and sons for that matter) are around that age, educate them about HPV and the vaccine so when they are older (past 18) they will have the knowledge/tools to make that decision. There is a lot I didn't know.

Getting off my soapbox now.

Stacy915 · October 2014

I find it interesting that the OP addressed non-vaxxers, yet most of the comments are from people who do vax...

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

I got HPV from my husband, which he got from a previous partner at some point, and remained dromant until we had been together two years already. I did know his sexual history before we became sexually active. He had also always used protection. We were tested as well, for the things that we were able to get tested for. We were negative.

Unfortunately right now there is no test that can detect HPV in men.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

Basically, because there is no male test, if your male SO has had previous partners, there is no way you can know his HPV status, unless he currently has warts. Thats one way HPV is different from other STDs, which is part of why I wrote my original post.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

And no I don't smoke.

knitfastdiewarm · October 2014

@jackieanddan1989 I have HPV as well and had Dysplasia as a result. I had to have the LEEP procedure and as a result, my cervix has scar tissue which could cause (but hopefully won't) complications with labor. Thank you for talking about your experience. There are so many misconceptions about HPV.

@QSB There is no test for men so there is absolutely no way to know if your male partner has it or not. Again, that is a strictly personal choice and I understand why so many parents do not want their daughters to receive it. I wish the shot had been available for me because I would have avoided so much pain and worry. Just my two cents.

jackieanddan1989 · October 2014

Maybe I should clarify. When I say dormant, I don't mean that he essentially didn't have the virus and then it reactivated. When I said dormant, I meant he was carrying the virus but didn't have symptoms. According to my OBGYN, it is actually very common for men to carry the virus (and spread it) without knowing they have it. Men are less likely to develop symptoms from an HPV infection than women. How long men can carry the virus before the body clears it can't be known for sure, as there is no test on men. You are right, there IS no safe sex with HPV. That's what I wish I had known, and why I chose to share my experience.

As of 2010, 32 million had been vaccinated, and 18,000 adverse effects have been reported. That comes out to about 0.005%. And those 18,000 includes minor side effects. Yes Guillain-Barre has occured, but is exceedingly rare.

That being said @QSB, I completely support your choice not to vaccinate your 12 year old. I don't think it's right that you are being hounded so much about it, since as you said, its not as much of a public health risk as other vaccines. I guess I just want to make sure people realize that HPV doesn't just happen to people who "aren't paying attention". It happens to responsible and conscientious people too.

I am not sure how I will feel about vaccinating my kids at 9 or 10, but when they are teenagers, HPV and Gardasil will definitely be included in the "sex talk" and I let them know I will not assume anything about their sex lives if they want to get the shot. On the other hand, if my 16 yr old is scared to get the shot because of side effects and I know she knows about HPV and the risks, I wouldn't force her to get it either. I just want them to know everything.

Want a personalized experience?

Vaccine Controversy, please discuss (edit for spelling)

Re: Vaccine Controversy, please discuss (edit for spelling)

Choose Another Board

Search Boards