I know you don't know me IRL....and I it probably doesn't come across through mobile bumping, but I do have a master's degree and consider myself to be educated enough to review scientific abstracts and research. I am by no means a medical professional or a professional scientist or professional researcher.
I can't be the only educated person who doesn't believe very bit of scientific research and always accept it at face value without questioning it....or am I?
I get paid to be skeptical about and question scientific and medical research. But I have many years of medical and scientific training behind me. So, yeah, I'm a highly educated individual who doubts many pieces of scientific data. In fact I often doubt more than I believe, but I know how to properly arrive at that doubt, which pieces of methodology/protocol/statistical analysis to doubt/question, and which analysis/animal model/in vitro/clinical tests to request in order to verify or support the data in question.
Scientists and medical professionals do not blindly believe every in vitro/vivo finding.<\b>
I guess I kind of feel like my doctor doesn't necessarily believe in the benefits either. Although it is being recommended, I get the feeling it is more for liability purposes, like that the practice feels it has to make me aware of the current CDC recommendations but the doctor doesn't necessarily feel strongly about me getting the vaccines during pregnancy.
Your doctor is concerned about liability on both sides, recommending and not recommending. That's why he seems on the fence of indifferent. Not all physicians are this way.
5 cycles of "TTC" - 3 intentional, 2 not so intentional. 5 BFPs. My rainbow arrived 10/15/14. TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
Also, imagine the guilt you would feel if your baby were hospitalized or DIED from a vaccine-preventable illness that you choose not to get your baby vaccinated for.
The risks of every vaccine out there are significantly lower than the risks associated with the diseases that the vaccines protect against.
Even worse, imagine the guilt the OP will have if she contracts pertussis (which seems to present just like a normal cold in adults) and then passes it on to her newborn with fatal results.
I guess if you could live with that, then feel free not to get the vax yourself. I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
Also, imagine the guilt you would feel if your baby were hospitalized or DIED from a vaccine-preventable illness that you choose not to get your baby vaccinated for.
The risks of every vaccine out there are significantly lower than the risks associated with the diseases that the vaccines protect against.
Even worse, imagine the guilt the OP will have if she contracts pertussis (which seems to present just like a normal cold in adults) and then passes it on to her newborn with fatal results.
I guess if you could live with that, then feel free not to get the vax yourself. I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
I was already planning to get the vaccination in the hospital just after giving birth. I just don't like the idea of exposing LO to the vaccine in utero.
I don't really want the vaccine either, but I feel like it would help prevent me from contracting and passing on to LO. At least this way, only I would be subject to any negative side effects, not LO.
What "negative side effects" are you referencing exactly. I'm just curious. Where did you find them? How prevelant are they? Are they worse that contracting the illness?
I'm just trying to understand WHY you think you and your unborn, unprotected child don't need these vaccines (flu and pertussis).
ETA: and please don't say "the only time I got the flu shot I got the flu" because...well...that is just annoying and one time does not a pattern make.
I was already planning to get the vaccination in the hospital just after giving birth. I just don't like the idea of exposing LO to the vaccine in utero.
...Except if you read the research, you'd see the part about getting it in utero is in part to pass some immunities on to your baby, but also because (my understanding is) there's a sort of ramping up process. The vaccine isn't effective like, immediately upon the needle entering your skin. You can still theoretically contract it and pass it on in the meantime.
But this makes no sense to me. Is it that you plan to vaccinate yourself against pertussis and never vaccinate your child? Or is it just the pregnancy part? Because it really doesn't make any form of sense that you would be scared of getting it while 8 months pregnant, but would later be OK with vaccinating.
I'm coming in on the tail end of this, but seriously please just get the vaccines. I'm a pharmacist and have done tons of research over the years both in class and on my own. The benefit completely outweighs any potential minuscule risk for healthy individuals. Delaying or refusing vaccination can not only put your child and family in danger, but also seriously jeopardizes public health. Enjoy the benefits of living in our modern society and protect your child, family, and others by stopping the spread of preventable diseases.
What "negative side effects" are you referencing exactly. I'm just curious. Where did you find them? How prevelant are they? Are they worse that contracting the illness?
I'm just trying to understand WHY you think you and your unborn, unprotected child don't need these vaccines (flu and pertussis).
ETA: and please don't say "the only time I got the flu shot I got the flu" because...well...that is just annoying and one time does not a pattern make.
Exactly, and from what I've seen, when people say they still got the " flu", that usually means they got a stomach bug. So many people don't seem to understand that influenza is respiratory not intestinal.
What I don't understand is that it seems you are only critical of the vaccine and those that advocate it. Can't some of the " research " you've done be from biased sources or from those with an agenda, or is big pharma and the CDC the only ones with an agenda and wanting to make a profit ? Why do you think that those scientists or drs that are following current recommendations are doing it blindly ?
Ok, ok....I hear you all. That's why I asked. I wasn't expecting everyone to agree with me, but I was hoping for a bit more of a two sided discussion. Seeing how that wasn't the case, I know that I need to reconsider. I'll be doing some more research as I am now much less confident in my decision than I was this morning. I do get what you all are saying and really don't want to put my LO at risk. I'm going to continue to weigh the options until my appointment tomorrow, but I'm now leaning more towards getting at least the TDAP. Thanks for all of the opinions and for engaging in discussion... and not completely flaming me for just bringing up the subject.
I fucking hate the anti-vaxxer movement. I wonder how many people's "gut" told them vaccines weren't safe or necessary before vaccine paranoia became a trendy thing?
I think I am in the minority that I've always been cautious about vaccines....not just joining the bandwagon of the recent "anti-vaccine" movement. Probably instilled in me by my mother who did delayed vaccinations with me when I was a child. I received all vaccines, just didn't get all of them exactly when recommended. I've always been pretty healthy. I try to avoid most medications in general because I've found that the more medications I take, the worse my overall health becomes. The one time in my life that I did get the flu vaccine, I was sick so many times that year. I guess I just don't trust that the pharmaceutical companies have my best interests in mind. I am also somewhat skeptical that the CDC isn't being influenced by these companies and their skewed data. Perhaps this is all unfounded paranoia, but it's how I feel. So therefore, I don't really trust the "research" that has been done and since these recommendations are fairly new, there is little history of whether there is really a real benefit and whether that potential benefit outweighs the risks.
I've spoken to my doctor and they just tell me that it's the current recommendation but it's up to me. They haven't really pressured me to get them, which is also why I'm thinking it's not really necessary. I guess my guilt is coming from the reading of all of the past threads here about them and the fact that most people seem to be getting them.
oh FFS
Pharmaceutical companies do NOT decide which drugs you receive, we do NOT have a seat at the table when guidelines are established by ACOG, ASCO, EULAR, or any other professional organization that establishes treatment guidelines for a specific discipline or specialization.
Do you even understand the "research" that you are referencing? or understand the clinical development process? drug development process? drug approval process? guideline development process? how to determine statistical significance? the evidence that must be shown for a vaccine in order for it to be approved and made a requirement? what about a fucking p-value?? Vaccines are one of the most difficult things to get approved and put into guidelines because they are given to healthy individuals - the trial sizes and safety databases have to be established are tremendous.
I can't deal with these people who know nothing about medicine, science, the drug development process, and can't even properly interpret statistics or a clinical trial report/read out thinking that they're smarter or know better than all the professional involved in making these decisions. I really can't.
So many people hate pharma. Until we develop a drug that saves their life or the life of someone they love.
This seems to have ended, but NPR had a great story about vaccinations this morning. It's really worth a listen/read. I LOVE what she concludes about delaying vaccination schedules, and how the middle ground does not necessarily = the right choice.
4. Asked non-medical professionals on an online community who you don't know IRL.
I can see that logic and reason have very little place in your life...
1. Also read information why I shouldn't 2. Part gut instinct and part educated decision based in my research 3. Felt guilt because I don't know what the right decision is and I don't want to expose LO to more risk (from having or not having the vaccine) 4. Asked non- medical professionals who I don't know after I've already asked medical professionals.
Logic and reason play a huge part in my life, which is why I'm really struggling with this. Everything I do is based on what is most logical, but I guess I just haven't found sufficient logic to convince me to get the vaccinations...other than just blindly following "the recommendations".
This post makes me seriously question why I blindly stop at red lights and blindly go at green ones.
4. Asked non-medical professionals on an online community who you don't know IRL.
I can see that logic and reason have very little place in your life...
1. Also read information why I shouldn't 2. Part gut instinct and part educated decision based in my research 3. Felt guilt because I don't know what the right decision is and I don't want to expose LO to more risk (from having or not having the vaccine) 4. Asked non- medical professionals who I don't know after I've already asked medical professionals.
Logic and reason play a huge part in my life, which is why I'm really struggling with this. Everything I do is based on what is most logical, but I guess I just haven't found sufficient logic to convince me to get the vaccinations...other than just blindly following "the recommendations".
What is a "non-medical professional" to you? Because I'm a banker, which makes me a non-medical professional, and I would not disagree with a medical professional when it comes to issues concerning medicine.
Coming in at the end here too, but you know in most countries its not even an option. I had to get them - because the WHO recommends and most EU countries require against WHO guidelines. The US is one of few first world countries that allows people to wander without vaccines as important as TDAP. I cannot understand disregarding medical facts (read: facts, not opinions) when it comes to your baby. Based on logic and reason you should be vaccinating yourself and allowing your little one access to some of that vaccination if at all possible. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I imagine you wouldn't fly a plane without training and knowledge, nor go build a bridge without training and knowledge. Yet you're personally deciding your child's medical situaiton? Makes zero sense.
Native NYC-ers living in Switzerland - First time parents - 36 + 37
5 cycles of "TTC" - 3 intentional, 2 not so intentional. 5 BFPs. My rainbow arrived 10/15/14. TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
In case anyone is interested. ..I went ahead and got both the TDAP and flu vaccinations yesterday. Although it sounded like I was being argumentative the other day, I was really just trying to explain some of my fears and talk (or type as the case may be) out some of my thoughts. I'm glad you all fought me and made me do a little more research to calm my fears and help me decide to get the vaccinations in the end.
ashleyvictoria, I totally understand your views and second-guessing. I'm also pregnant with my first child and never got the flu shot before. I'm sure I'll get the Tdap and flu shot in the next month or so.
As much as there are doctor's opinions and CDC notices about vaccines, there's also information on what the risks have been to babies who get too many vaccinations too fast. I'm not anti-vaccine, but if you dig on the internet, there are plenty of settlement cases of parents who had tons of problems occur after their babies were vaccinated. Also, you can find info on the ingredients of the vaccines and have an informed decision. I plan on getting this book by Dr. Robert Sears: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316180521/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316180521&linkCode=as2&tag=askdcom0c-20
Millions of people receive vaccines every year. The fact that settlements exist should be surprising to absolutely no one. It's the rate of adverse events, and the rate of SEVERE adverse events that matters; not the fact that there have been settlements. Also, there are often settlements because it's not worth the legal battle, not because the case had extreme validity.
5 cycles of "TTC" - 3 intentional, 2 not so intentional. 5 BFPs. My rainbow arrived 10/15/14. TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
ashleyvictoria, I totally understand your views and second-guessing. I'm also pregnant with my first child and never got the flu shot before. I'm sure I'll get the Tdap and flu shot in the next month or so.
As much as there are doctor's opinions and CDC notices about vaccines, there's also information on what the risks have been to babies who get too many vaccinations too fast. I'm not anti-vaccine, but if you dig on the internet, there are plenty of settlement cases of parents who had tons of problems occur after their babies were vaccinated. Also, you can find info on the ingredients of the vaccines and have an informed decision. I plan on getting this book by Dr. Robert Sears: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316180521/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316180521&linkCode=as2&tag=askdcom0c-20
You realize there's no science behind the delayed vaccination approach, right? Dr. Sears only came up with that to encourage people who were nervous about shots to get needed vaccines. It's merely a way to calm down worrywart parents who might not otherwise get their children vaccinated.
I'm not looking for anyone to respond to me. Keep your comments to yourself.
I was replying to ashleyvictoria.
This is a public forum. You do not get to determine who responds to you an who does not. If you wanted a private conversation, you should have sent a private message.
5 cycles of "TTC" - 3 intentional, 2 not so intentional. 5 BFPs. My rainbow arrived 10/15/14. TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
5 cycles of "TTC" - 3 intentional, 2 not so intentional. 5 BFPs. My rainbow arrived 10/15/14. TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
@Mnerva74 - I'm glad I'm not the only one uneasy about vaccinations. I had previously read about delayed vaccination schedules and decided that if I was going to vaccinate at all, I may as well stick to the recommended timeframes. The schedule is designed that way for a reason. If it was a schedule made up by my doctor (and not the CDC) I would definitely question it, but if I am comfortable with the vaccinations they recommend, I feel like it only makes sense to stick to the schedule they recommend as well. I know the decision is for every parent to make themselves, but I really had to make a serious effort to focus on the facts when making my decisions about vaccinations, because I had (and still have) a lot of overwhelming fears. The fear of possibly making the wrong choice and harming my baby was overshadowing the fact that doing nothing (not getting the recommended vaccines) could end up resulting in much greater harm to my baby. The diseases that the vaccines are preventing are very serious diseases (especially for tiny babies) and I ultimately decided that the diseases were a worse enemy than the vaccinations themselves. I know sometimes it's hard to consider the opposite viewpoint, especially when you feel like others are not taking your concerns seriously....but don't let your pride get in the way of making the decision that is best for your baby...and don't let your fears cloud your judgment.
I skipped ahead but I wanted to share my thoughts on 'big pharma.' A drug pushed through too soon and not properly tested caused my fathers death. This was proven by the fact it was taken off the market and in a court of law. That said, I sport two band-aids on each arm from my recent vaccinations. I don't particularly love the big pharmaceutical companies (especially the one that will not be named) but I can't deny they conduct and help fund life-saving research and drugs. For every money-hungry executive there is an earnest and passionate doctor/researcher/chemist who is determined to find a cure for some awful disease. But aside from that, there is a big difference between an experimental drug and a flu/Tdap shot. You get the shots. *I admit I read only half-way through but there is something inherent within me that will not allow too much love for big pharmaceutical companies. I recognize I benefit from their drugs but I still hate every person involved in pushing the drug that killed my father through too fast. But I don't disagree that vaccinations equal good - and I am an example of someone that could have a case to be wary. I am just logical about my baby's health.
@SPurp13 Just showed the recipe to my mom and we decided we are going to try it for lunch. We are both bored and love eggplant parmesan so what the hell.
I will report back if labor becomes imminent. @Mrssinner402 yoi have been warned.
I skipped ahead but I wanted to share my thoughts on 'big pharma.'
A drug pushed through too soon and not properly tested caused my fathers death. This was proven by the fact it was taken off the market and in a court of law.
That said, I sport two band-aids on each arm from my recent vaccinations.
I don't particularly love the big pharmaceutical companies (especially the one that will not be named) but I can't deny they conduct and help fund life-saving research and drugs. For every money-hungry executive there is an earnest and passionate doctor/researcher/chemist who is determined to find a cure for some awful disease.
But aside from that, there is a big difference between an experimental drug and a flu/Tdap shot. You get the shots.
*I admit I read only half-way through but there is something inherent within me that will not allow too much love
for big pharmaceutical companies. I recognize I benefit from their drugs but I still hate every person involved in pushing the drug that killed my father through too fast. But I don't disagree that vaccinations equal good - and I am an example of someone that could have a case to be wary. I am just logical about my baby's health.
5 cycles of "TTC" - 3 intentional, 2 not so intentional. 5 BFPs. My rainbow arrived 10/15/14. TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
Re: Vaccination Guilt *Update in Thread*
I guess I kind of feel like my doctor doesn't necessarily believe in the benefits either. Although it is being recommended, I get the feeling it is more for liability purposes, like that the practice feels it has to make me aware of the current CDC recommendations but the doctor doesn't necessarily feel strongly about me getting the vaccines during pregnancy.
Your doctor is concerned about liability on both sides, recommending and not recommending. That's why he seems on the fence of indifferent. Not all physicians are this way.
TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
I guess if you could live with that, then feel free not to get the vax yourself. I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
I guess if you could live with that, then feel free not to get the vax yourself. I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
I was already planning to get the vaccination in the hospital just after giving birth. I just don't like the idea of exposing LO to the vaccine in utero.
I'm just trying to understand WHY you think you and your unborn, unprotected child don't need these vaccines (flu and pertussis).
ETA: and please don't say "the only time I got the flu shot I got the flu" because...well...that is just annoying and one time does not a pattern make.
Thank you....well said!!!!!!!
Very nicely said when she writes on delayed schedules:
"when you split the difference between information and misinformation, you still end up with misinformation."
What is a "non-medical professional" to you? Because I'm a banker, which makes me a non-medical professional, and I would not disagree with a medical professional when it comes to issues concerning medicine.
Native NYC-ers living in Switzerland - First time parents - 36 + 37
TTC: 8 Months / BFP: 2/8/2014 / EDD: 10/20/2014
TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.
Legit lol
A drug pushed through too soon and not properly tested caused my fathers death. This was proven by the fact it was taken off the market and in a court of law.
That said, I sport two band-aids on each arm from my recent vaccinations.
I don't particularly love the big pharmaceutical companies (especially the one that will not be named) but I can't deny they conduct and help fund life-saving research and drugs. For every money-hungry executive there is an earnest and passionate doctor/researcher/chemist who is determined to find a cure for some awful disease.
But aside from that, there is a big difference between an experimental drug and a flu/Tdap shot. You get the shots.
*I admit I read only half-way through but there is something inherent within me that will not allow too much love
for big pharmaceutical companies. I recognize I benefit from their drugs but I still hate every person involved in pushing the drug that killed my father through too fast. But I don't disagree that vaccinations equal good - and I am an example of someone that could have a case to be wary. I am just logical about my baby's health.
TFMC 08.02.13 at 19+ weeks. Everyday I grieve for my little Olive.