Need opinions on work options

britb618 · September 2014

Ok, so my boss sat me down last week and said that my billable hours have been suffering a bit since becoming a mom. For the most part they are okay with that. I am the only woman in the firm and they know this would "most likely" be an issue with any woman they would hire. I call him my boss but as he says over and over again we all work together and I don't have to "ask" for time off, I just use my judgment. Anyway. He gave me two options. One, try to up my billables once I have baby number two. Or agree to a reduction in pay and work less hours.

To be fair to myself, as the youngest attorney in the firm I am the one who is always sent on the running errands, doing answers to discovery on plaintiffs cases (which aren't billable) and always somehow get stuck with the clients that my "bosses" have known for years and therefore get reduced rates. I explained that to him and stated that I do think that I do just as much work as everyone else in the firm but I am being given crappier cases and not getting credit for a lot of the work I do. He said we could try to rectify that and also said I'm a valued asset at the company and have a knack for trial work so they definitely don't want to lose me. They just want to work with me so that I can do both of my jobs (mom and lawyer) as well as I want. He stressed that he knows being a mom is more important and that none of the men in the firm have to go home and do what I do, even though most of them are dads to young children. So overall not a bad conversation but I did cry on the way home from work because I feel like I am trying to juggle everything and I thought I was doing a really good job. Additionally, I get insurance through my husband while everyone else in the firm gets insurance for their entire family through the firm at a cost of approximately 10 grand per employee, if not more depending on the ages etc., and I personally think my salary is completely commensurate with the work that I do. (Its actually really low tbh, but in a small firm that gives me flexibility with my schedule etc. I find it fair).

So now I have to make a decision. Do I try to step it up next year when I have two under two and work my ass off to keep my relatively low salary, or agree to a reduction and work decreased hours and spend more time with my kids. My concern is I will agree to the decreased salary and expect to get out of work daily by like 330 4 oclock only to end up really working til 5 anyway trying to keep up. We can most likely afford it so it is not necessarily the money that I am concerned with, I know we can always figure out where to budget etc. to make it work. But to the ladies that went down to part time after their child was born, are you actually able to work the decreased hours and not end up doing the same amount of work AND is that extra time really that beneficial at home...OR would it make more sense to just push harder at work and force my "bosses" to give me better cases or at least recognize that I won't bring in as high of billables but deserve same salary because they are the ones decreasing the billables because of the cases they are giving me....

Thanks for reading if you made it this far! Just looking for some advise and/or discussions on experiences but all opinions are welcome

Mom2anAngel2 · September 2014

I reduced to PT after DS was born. There are days that I feel as though I am expected to get the same amount of work done as when I was FT, but I just do what I can. I work in medicine, not law, so I obviously can not see patients when I am not there. However, the paperwork does begin to pile up at times. I also find myself remoting into the office to finish notes after DS is asleep.

All that said, I love being home 2 days and only working 3. I have been able to do so many things with DS that I would not have gotten a chance had I been working. Mommy and me classes tend to be during the week. We also go to story time at the library and so many other activities. Our weekends tend to get hectic, so have time during the week to have mommy/LO time has been such a blessing to me.

britb618 · September 2014

Thanks! For me I can't imagine that I would actually be able to not come in on any days, just more an 8-4 thing maybe instead of 8-6...So I am not sure if it would be worth it. Although if I could do just three days (hell even four) that would be nice

britb618 · September 2014

@lilaccourt thanks for the support! I actually didn't mention the insurance thing but will be sure to do that regardless in my next convo once I decide what I am doing. I felt kind of on the spot and it was only after we had met did I think about that point as well. And like you said, with the job market for lawyers, it would be impossible to get another job that gives me any more flexibility than this one already does. So while I would make more it would make my home life suffer. Which is why for the most part I was pretty happy with my situation. I guess I just have to keep track of what I am doing and discuss it with them further at the end of this year to determine if I am on track for what they want. I should also point out, he said I should be earning double for the firm what I take home, and currently I am. So I don't really get the problem....so I guess I just have to wait until our end of the year billables are available to point that out as well so long as I stay on track with what I am doing.

luckylady18 · September 2014

@britb618 -

UGH. I hate the billable hour. It's the worst system ever. DH and I are both attorneys. I dont have to bill for my time but he does. It's such a nightmare.

I need to gather my thoughts on your situation. It's totally shitty. It seems very unfair on its face that they are calling you out on this, as the only woman at the firm. No? If there were other attorneys who were also mothers who they could compare your billables to, that's one thing. But it seems that for all the non-billable work they have you do, its like you're put in a worse position than anyone else because they are expecting you do that PLUS bill like everyone else. And if you don't, then they want you to take a pay cut? It seems like they are setting you up for failure, IMO.

BTW I totally hear you on the non-billable work - DH gets stuck with this sometimes and it pisses him off so much because he feels like his billables don't reflect all that he did for the month. Again, a shitty system that I despise.

I need to think this through. I'll send you a PM. I'd also like to speak to DH about this since he has the firm mentality - would you mind if I spoke with him and talked it out with him?

Maebb · September 2014

I personally think it's inappropriate for your boss to correlate your reduction hours with "becoming a mom" or to say that would most likely be an issue with any woman they would hire. Maybe it's a reality (or at least perceived reality), but I would be pissed. Men have families too, or other hobbies and responsibilities outside of work, so why should the women be the ones to get the shaft professionally?

I work on billable hours too, and I have to be proactive and intentional about the type of projects I'd like to take on and make that clear to my boss. Then I work hard to have really exceptional work so that people will request me for projects. It sounds like you're already doing that.

As far as what to do, I agree with PP's to decide what you really need in terms of income and insurance, think about how many hours you'd like to work, and then hopefully find a balance where you feel like you're giving and getting what you want from your work and home life. Good luck - that balance is hard to achieve, and for me it can flex from week to week, but I try to make it work.

luckylady18 · September 2014

I'm thinking along the lines of what @emmyg65 said. If you are getting assigned non-billable work and then you are getting crap for your hours, and they are trying to say that it's because you are a mom, then it doesn't feel kosher. Your "boss" should never have mentioned you being a mom in the conversation. If your billables arent what they should be, they need to tell you to step it up. The bottom line is that you should be held to the same standard and rules as everyone else. That conversation would have led to your argument that you get assigned non-billable work. Then you could have gone from there....

britb618 · September 2014

Thanks ladies, I personally appreciate that he recognizes that I need accommodations because I am a mom. I do not want to be held to same standard as the men and I am fine with not making what they make. They work longer hours and are here on the weekends, I'm not so I am not opposed to them being paid more because of it. My concern is that when it comes to plaintiffs work I am not getting the same credit as they do. I don't feel discriminated against at all as a woman or a mom, I feel like since I am the youngest attorney I get put on a lot of stuff that other attorneys wouldn't, thats kind of the name of the game though I think in most firms. Which is fine, but I just don't think it is fair to say because I have to do a lot of the "grunt" work" that my salary should be based off of my billables since clearly I am providing a service outside of that. I should make it clear that I know for a fact that they don't want me to leave and are not trying to push me out. We have discussed long term and they want me on board whether its part time or full time. I think the only issue is whether or not I can keep up with the demands of my "salary" @luckylady18 I wouldnt mind you speaking with your husband at all. Thank you everyone for your input I appreciate it

britb618 · September 2014

thanks @saiven! Also love your siggy-my daughter and I were that last year for halloween

RibbetRibbet · September 2014

Is this something that needs to be decided today? Did he give you a time line? Can you wait until you go back to work and see what best fits your needs?

I worked as an auditor (I have since left to go to one of my clients) but at the firm I worked for we had billable and non-billable hours. We were required to record all of our hours. I will say that if we just recorded them as "admin time" instead of specfically as "campus recruiting" or "training new staff" that we would be questioned a lot more about our non-billable vs. billable hours. I also know that I saw many women who had reduced schedules at the accounting firm I was at- that really didn't have reduced schedules (not saying it is like that every where)- but one thing I did learn from that is that if you decided to go the route of less hours and less pay YOU have to manage that, and be very real with your boss about expectations. Additionally, I do think your non-billable hours sound more like you get those because you are the least senior person which to me sounds normal. Good luck in your choice! It honestly sounds like a very flexible place and because of how he approached you about it, it sounds like he's open to ideas.

butchmum · September 2014

My partner went part time (with a reduction in salary) when she went back after maternity leave with our first. She ended up having more responsibility and a larger work load than she'd previously had at full time, but with far less money. The bonus was that she got to spend time with Baby A. She technically worked 3 1/2 days, but in reality it meant that she worked till 2:00pm 3 days a week, and till 9ish the other 2, while only getting 7/10ths of her full time salary. The kicker was when she was about to return to full time work and her boss said that once she'd returned he was expecting she'd get much more done because she hadn't been pulling her weight! Needless to say, she got a different job. She now works 9-6, five days a week for more than twice what she was on before.

britb618 · September 2014

haha @butchmum, I totally hear you on that and have thought if I found a general counsel position or something I would make double at least and work way less! O well! and yes @ribbetribbet, it is pretty normal and I don't have to decide now but it seems like I should just plan on staying full time because in the end I will end up working that either way.

Thank you all ladies for helping out in my decision!

Stargirlb · September 2014

yeah this kinda reeks of sexist discrimination to me. Pay cut?! uh.....

Sorry I have no experience in this so can't say anything helpful, but track the work you are doing, (non-billable stuff) and the next time this comes up you need to show all the time that is going into this other stuff. If they want you to do that stuff, you gotta be getting paid for it.

If you suspect you will be working til 5 anyways trying to keep up, do NOT agree to a reduction in hours/pay. Sounds like boss is discriminating here, or preparing to.

Stargirlb · September 2014

I would also *consider* getting a different job after baby. Just keeping eyes open and such. If you want to advance, and you should want to if advancing means more billable hours and you get to delegate shit to other people, talking about a reduction is sort of a bad omen from your boss. I would also consider (after baby) sitting down with him and talking to him about your long term growth plan (getting promoted,) and if he can't foresee that or help you with that then that's a good sign to move on. You don't want to be stuck at the bottom getting this short end of the stick where you can't win.

melmarie4 · September 2014

If I were you I'd stick with full time. Part time hours in my opinion are only beneficial if you can have at least one day off a week instead of working the normal 5. Having an extra day off with your kids can totally be worth it. Getting off a couple hours early? Usually not so beneficial, especially if you end up working late most of the time to keep up with your workload. Definitely start keeping track of the non billable hours of work you do and the clients that receive "discounts" that you do work for. What made your boss being up you being a mom? Unless you're calling in more than your coworkers or taking off early all the time, it doesn't seem fair to bring that up. If you didn't have a child right now, would you be working a lot more hours?

peckmiranda · September 2014

I have to agree with @saiven and say that if they're telling you to go part-time, you should actually go part-time. What you're describing is not part-time, it's just you getting creative about when/how you work. Plus, if he thinks you aren't getting enough billable hours now, he definitely won't think you are after baby #2. It's going to be so much harder for you with a second baby, that's when you need the firm to be especially accommodating, not less so! That being said, with the job market being what it is, I can see why you would want to stick with the firm that's willing to give you flexible hours, even if it means taking a pay cut. Which, really, is what it sounds like they're aiming for.

Lots of promises were made to me by my boss when I was pregnant with DS. I was going to get to work part-time for a month or so after having him, bring him to work with me for 6 months, and after that I was going to work from home part-time. None of these happened. Well, technically, I brought him to work with me for 6 months, but only because I had several emails with that in writing and I put my foot down about it. But the others just never happened. There was always something that came up or some reason I had to be in the office. In my case, anyway, my boss never trusted that I was getting the same amount of work done, regardless of the evidence.

britb618 · September 2014

I think he brought up me being a mom because he said he understood why my hours were down and that I had a job at home to do which is more important then my work here. So because of that he recognized that regardless I was trying my best to do both but if I wasn't able to keep up my billables then let him know and we could reduce my hours and pay so that I felt more balanced. I really didn't feel like I was being attacked at all and as I said I don't sense discrimination. If anything I get extra nice treatment from everyone because I am a woman; maybe some think I should be treated the same but they have always recognized that me coming in on a Saturday isn't going to happen because they all have wives at home running around doing everything and they understand I don't and that my husband being a police officer and working odd hours means that I have to pick up even more slack then their wives because at least they are home at night. I think he was just trying to give me options to be honest.

I am not concerned in the least about advancing like I stated before because I have been told time and again I am part of this firm, they aren't my bosses we all work together and eventually if I want I can be a partner. I think they are attempting to accommodate my life without hurting the firms bottom line. Despite their good intentions I do know that I need to keep track of all of my non-billable work so I can point that out as you have all said. While I think in the long run I will make a lot more money because the older partners are on their way out so that leaves only four of us to run the firm and keep the profits , for now I have to decide whether or not the accommodations would be worth a reduced pay. It sounds like it won't be from all of your experiences. So I will have to have a serious chat with them to explain why I think I am pulling my weight here and why I don't think I will need a reduced salary to make up for what I am or am not doing. Thank you to everyone for all the advice and support

I really seriously appreciate it!

luckylady18 · September 2014

Good luck! if I have any more thoughts later tonight after talking to DH, I'll comment again.

stephchris0321 · October 2014

I think that if you accept a pay reduction, you should cut your hours and only work 3 or 4 days a week. Otherwise, you'll get stuck meeting with clients and stay later than you plan. It will be nice to spend a day or two with your LO and not have to commute every day!

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