Circumcision...

mrsrroberson · July 2014

@Cryssteen‌ I'm in California, hubs born and raised in Los Angeles, previous husband is from Central America, and DS was born in suburbs of Maryland (both still all natural).

I agree with PP's love this thread! Even though we still don't know the sex as I mentioned earlier, it's such great info regardless! This also will be my last (third). D14 is amaze-balls!!!

Cheekers2010 · July 2014

gradschoolmom1234 said:

For second time moms whose sons are not circumcised: how much of an issue is smegma for your child? obviously it's not dangerous, but it's kind of gross, yes? It's a weird thing to try to research online, i can't find any studies showing how frequently it occurs or the social ramifications. I just don't even know how common the issue is or if I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill in allowing that to be part of the consideration.

not an issue whatsoever. Never even seen it.

Cheekers2010 · July 2014

gradschoolmom1234 said:

@cryssteen - I'm not sure how reputable this source is, but the chart does align with the other things I've read.

(edit: typo )

Just to add to this, we are in the Pac NW and my DS is not circ'd.

ninee88 · July 2014

DH and I agree with circumcising LO (although this thread has prompted me to do a but more research!). I just assumed we would although I didn't have a huge preference. DH is adamant that we do it. He was circed at twelve years old because he chose to be, and wishes it had been done as a baby.

Demographics: I was born and raised in Massachusetts, of European decent, and Christian. DH was born in Greece, raised in various parts of the US, and we currently live in Massachusetts.

I think it is interesting that DH's older brother was circed (born in Germany where they just did it at the time), and so was his younger brother (born in PA, again, because it was just done there). It was not common practice in Greece when DH was born there.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

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NiqueMN7 · July 2014

I'm very strongly against yet my hubs is all for....no idea what's gonna happen if this ones a boy. I didn't get it done to my oldest then had a girl and now faced with the issue I never thought would be a problem. So idk, we'll have to see cause we're both very firm in our reasons and choices...

kapio2012 · July 2014

If we have a boy, we are planning on circumcising.

I am a nurse, and have seen many uncircumcised old men that do not take care of and clean it properly and that creates a lot of other problems.

And honestly, it is a quick procedure that baby will never remember. They may cry a little bit, but will get over it quickly.

weezy29 · July 2014

gradschoolmom1234 said:
@cryssteen - I'm not sure how reputable this source is, but the chart does align with the other things I've read.

(edit: typo )

Yep, I'm in Texas and it is very common here. I honestly don't know anyone who hadn't done it, myself included!

spoonleg · July 2014

When I was in nursing school, I witnessed several newborns get circumcised, and it was heartbreaking.

My husband is circumcised. I felt that the medical evidence did not support modifying our sons' bodies, but I do value his opinion on the matter because he has had the experience of owning a penis. His initial reaction when asked was yes, of course. I asked him why, and he didn't have an answer. After doing some reading together, he very firmly changed his decision to no.

Those of you who have partners or sons who were circumcised later in life: can you share the reason? Were there compelling health issues that caused them to need the procedure? What was their experience like?

AnonnAni · July 2014

@spoonleg I posted about our expereince on like page 4 I think..... We did my son's at 1yrs old and he didnt vocalize a bad experience beyond the first pee hurting him.
We did it after having bad experiences with getting sterile urine samples when he was sick where they had to pull back the foreskin and tape it back until he peed into the "urine collection baggie thing" (not sure what its called), after the second time which made him bleed, we scheduled a consult for a circumcision cuz we refused for that to have to happen again if we could prevent it.
When DS was born we were going to do it then opted out and planned on letting him choose later in life but after those two expereiences we made the choice for him. At that point he was 1 and had already had bad experiences getting testing done b/c he wasn't so for us we didnt feel comfortable doing that to him over and over every time he needed medical treatment that required a urine sample cuz you just never know how many times your child will get sick.
He has only had to do one other sample after that and it was after the procedure and was way easy they just place the "collection baggie" and never had to manipulate his penis b/c obviously the foreskin was no longer there. So maybe that 3rd time will be the last and he never needs to do it again but for us twice was enough to push us off the fence.

AnonnAni · July 2014

And I totally agree with the other comments, we have SO gone about this very touchy subject in a classy manner. Kudos ladies!!

rshamos · July 2014

Arizona. We are circumcising. MH is as well. I come from all sisters, and never asked my dad if he was. I have never seen an unaltered penis in real life. And I went to ASU, so I've seen a few penises. I saw one in a porn once though!

turkeyleg5 · July 2014

I just started looking into this and was surprised to learn how much of a regional difference there was, throughout the world and even in the US, and also how much the circumcision rate has been decreasing over the last 30 years.

According to the CDC, in 2010, the rates in the US were:

All US regions: 58%

Northeast: 66%

Midwest: 71%

South: 58%

West: 40%

(https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/circumcision_2013/circumcision_2013.pdf)

The WHO map and info on the Wikipedia page "Prevalence of Circumcision" is also fascinating. (Sorry, I can't seem to get the image to show up here.)

turkeyleg5 · July 2014

Personally, I have dated men both who were and weren't circumcised, and it didn't affect me at all. IMO, the person that it affects the most would be my son if we have one, and so right now I'm leaning towards not wanting to have it done. DH is open, and we figure we'll discuss if necessary once we find out the sex of the baby.

FWIW, I've asked talked to two uncircumcised guys about whether or not they ever felt different or uncomfortable in the locker room, and both looked at me funny, and said something to the effect of, "Seriously? Contrary to popular belief [by women] we don't stand in the showers checking out each other's packages, and no one really cares."

gimmeyronionrings · July 2014

@turkeyleg5‌ - I also asked DH about the whole locker room thing after this thread popped up, and through his years of playing hockey he said no one ever talked about each other's penises.

byrne15 · July 2014

DH is and both boys are. If this one is a boy, he will be as well.

Meether · July 2014

Cryssteen said:

I'd love to know, geographically, where everyone is from and what their preference (non-religious) is. In my - ahem - field research, I found that northeastern US typically does circumsize, unless born abroad or to foreign born parents. In Western Europe (England, in particular), it is not at all common. Living in NY, it's not a question. We will absolutely being doing it. In curious about other areas of the country.

I just moved out from NYC and none of our friends have had their kids circumcised. Even DH who is Jewish (non practicing) is against it. We now live in NNJ and it's the same, two of our friends had boys this year and both did not circumcise.

babydreams13 · July 2014

Cryssteen said:

I'd love to know, geographically, where everyone is from and what their preference (non-religious) is. In my - ahem - field research, I found that northeastern US typically does circumsize, unless born abroad or to foreign born parents. In Western Europe (England, in particular), it is not at all common. Living in NY, it's not a question. We will absolutely being doing it. In curious about other areas of the country.

Same, I'm from NY and I can't really think of anyone that I know of that is uncircumcised. When any of my girl friends growing up encountered an uncircumcised penis it was a big deal and a rare event! I saw one once and I was shocked but I guess I was just thrown off bc I didn't even know they existed...not kidding. I was young- don't judge. It didn't go any further than that bc I had no idea what was going on. I was actually surprised by this thread bc I thought it was the norm in the US but not the norm over seas. Good to know!

So that being said since our kid is going to grow up in NY we will be getting him circumcised. I respect everyone's decisions and people need to do what they believe is right for their family.

kirstey728 · July 2014

Being a medical student I can say that it is thought and proven to be a more sanitary thing. Some people look at it as genital mutilation, but I think of it this way: it's like an appendix, we don't need that any more and since we're not running around nude there isn't any reason to have more skin down there than necessary. I have a friend who is extremely against circumcision. So much to the point where she shames me and my hubby for choosing to do it... Let's just say that we aren't really on speaking terms right now... Her son is due a week before ours is. Basically the point I am trying to make is whatever reasons you have for it or against it, do your research and figure out what YOU believe is best for your child don't let anyone else influence your decision. When it boils down to it, this is your child not your FIL's he will get over it if you don't do a Bris. My family lineage is Jewish and we haven't performed any Bris since my great great grandfather was born....

Cryssteen · July 2014

Thanks for all of your responses. I just asked DH what he thinks and talked a little about the differences in thinking throughout the US. His response, "I'm circumsized, right?" Hahaha

mrsrroberson · July 2014

@Cryssteen‌ Laughed Out Loud for real hahahaha

I just asked hubs to please consider the research and to not make a decision based on (insert manly voice) his manly-ness! He proceeded to roll his eyes at me! Lol

vintagejjane · July 2014

From Illinois, but we live in Texas

SoyMissK8 · July 2014

My mom mentioned years ago that she made the choice to do it because my father had it. The boys match the dad. My MIL thought it was a horrible idea and didn't have her sons circumcised and we plan to stick with the boys matching the father. I don't see the need if hygiene is taken care of, though I haven't done a lot of research.

ColeyCannoli · July 2014

kirstey728 said:

Being a medical student I can say that it is thought and proven to be a more sanitary thing. Some people look at it as genital mutilation, but I think of it this way: it's like an appendix, we don't need that any more and since we're not running around nude there isn't any reason to have more skin down there than necessary. I have a friend who is extremely against circumcision. So much to the point where she shames me and my hubby for choosing to do it... Let's just say that we aren't really on speaking terms right now... Her son is due a week before ours is. Basically the point I am trying to make is whatever reasons you have for it or against it, do your research and figure out what YOU believe is best for your child don't let anyone else influence your decision. When it boils down to it, this is your child not your FIL's he will get over it if you don't do a Bris. My family lineage is Jewish and we haven't performed any Bris since my great great grandfather was born....

I'm also a medical student and though I understand what you are saying, you don't remove an appendix of a newborn just to avoid a possible appendicitis later. We don't remove tonsils, tailbones or pinkie toes either just because they don't have any practical use anymore. Ironically the practice of circumcision itself had more merit back when we had less sanitary conditions - hence why it became a cultural thing dating back thousands of years. Nowadays we have antibiotics and regular baths, so the scary unsanitary foreskin is not really a threat (in this area of the world at least).

That being said, no one should shame you for doing it or not doing it. It's your son, after all. People going on about mutilation should look up female circumcision to see what that really means and why it's illegal in the Western world. Seriously, I can't believe people do that to their baby girls >_<

leoandethansmom · July 2014

We didn't even question it when DS was born, we had the procedure done because DH did. However, my son has had a couple of yeast infections on the tip of his penis even though he is kept very, very clean and we are wondering if it has any connection to the circumcision. It didn't seem to pain him when it was done but they are so small and young at the time it's not like they can communicate it to you. However, I did know a guy who had to have his circumcised when he was 20 and he was traumatized. I think with this boy we will have it done because 2 young brothers in the bath will probably be comparing their goods and wondering why they are different.

jlmynes · September 2014

DH and I completely agree and feel strongly about having our LO circumcised. Not only for aesthetic reasons but also for medical reasons. Too many risks of infections (having known a boy that didn't have it done and at the age of 6 had it done and it traumatized him but he had too many infections to keep up with it). Don't want him to be different than daddy or other boys in the locker room and from a woman's perspective uncircumcised men really freak me out!

soulcupcake · September 2014

ColeyCannoli said:
I'm also a medical student and though I understand what you are saying, you don't remove an appendix of a newborn just to avoid a possible appendicitis later. We don't remove tonsils, tailbones or pinkie toes either just because they don't have any practical use anymore. Ironically the practice of circumcision itself had more merit back when we had less sanitary conditions - hence why it became a cultural thing dating back thousands of years. Nowadays we have antibiotics and regular baths, so the scary unsanitary foreskin is not really a threat (in this area of the world at least).

That being said, no one should shame you for doing it or not doing it. It's your son, after all. People going on about mutilation should look up female circumcision to see what that really means and why it's illegal in the Western world. Seriously, I can't believe people do that to their baby girls >_<

This. The removal of any body part as a prophylactic measure makes no sense to me. I wouldn't prophylactically remove my baby's tonsils or appendix because he/she *might* develop problems with either later in life. I mean, really. Also, the practice of circumcision in the West has little to do with hygiene and everything to do with puritanical and dogmatic beliefs centered around the evils of masturbation.

It makes sense to actually research the origins of a particular practice. Just because it is "tradition" does not mean it should be a valid routine practice in the modern, developed, world. Especially when we simply know better because we have access to better information. Europe is on the right track. If European mean can keep their penises clean with no problem then American men should do fine once they're properly educated and misinformation has been dispelled.

I'm all about equity. I wouldn't circumcise, remove the prepuce (clitoral hood), of my girls, and I see no benefit to removing a functioning part of the male anatomy. It does serve a function.

As far as the African studies. More can be read here.

https://atlc.org/Resources/Downloads/AJPMGreenetAl2010.pdf

https://www.zimeye.org/wp-content/live_images/2012/01/44-419-1-PB.pdf

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-6405.2011.00761.x/full

https://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA458066

^

‎"The proportion of circumcised men did not significantly differ between cases (84.9%) and controls (81.8%). Prevalence of circumcision among men born in the U. S. was higher (85.0%) than those born elsewhere (58.1%). After adjustment for demographic and behavioral risk factors lack of circumcision was not found to be a risk factor for HIV (OR = 0.9; 95% CI: 0.51, 1.7) or STI (OR = 1.08; 95% CI 0.52, 2.26). The odds of HIV infection were 2.6 higher for irregular condom users, 5 times as high for those reporting STI, 6.2 times higher for those reporting anal sex, 2.8-3.2 times higher for those with 2-7+ partners, nearly 3 times higher for Blacks, and 3.5 times as high for men who were single or divorced/separated.

Conclusions: Although there may be other medical or cultural reasons for male circumcision, it is not associated with HIV or STI prevention in this U. S. military population."

https://sti.bmj.com/content/79/6/499.full

Common sense hygiene practices (apparently, American men lack this):

https://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/aap-circumcision-policy-seriously-flawed-070100133.html

"In 2010, the AAP released a statement defending female genital nicking for cultural reasons, only to retract it under pressure from children's rights groups opposed to circumcision of girls and boys."

More of the above can be read here:

https://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/05/27/AAP.retracts.female.genital.cutting/

The HIV "studies" conducted in third world countries in Africa can not be extrapolated to infants in America.

I read a while back that these circumcised group of males in these third world country studies were taught sex safe practices (use of condoms) and the uncircumcised males were not taught these practices. So, basically, the circumcised group were given a "heads up" on how to safely practice sex, whereas the uncircumcised group were left to their own devices, leaving them ignorant on safe sex practices. Questionable study design.

Case in point: While being noncircumcised did not increase the likelihood of HIV and most STI infections, results indicated that circumcision was associated with higher rates of condom use, suggesting that those who promote condoms among MSM may need to better understand condom-related behaviors and attitudes among noncircumcised men to enhance the extent to which they are willing to use condoms consistently.

This is from AIDs Patient Care & STD's, August 2010. Authors Jozkowski, J and Rosenberger, J. Focused on patients at highest risk for AIDS & STDs (men having sex with men)

and

Recommending mass circumcision by generalizing from the particular RCCTs to the diverse populations of Africa highlights problems of external validity identified in several areas of preventive medicine and public health research. Studies published since the RCCTs show that (1) male circumcision is not correlated with lower HIV prevalence in some sub-Saharan populations[14] and [15]; (2) circumcision is correlated with increased transmission of HIV to women20; and (3) male circumcision is not a cost-effective strategy.[17] and [28] This new evidence warrants caution and further study before recommending circumcision campaigns. In addition, ethical considerations, informed consent issues, and possible increase in unsafe sexual practices from a sense of immunity without condoms must be weighed.

The global health community understands that the most important modifiable factor in sexually transmissible HIV is human behavior.40 The policy questions to be considered are not whether a link exists between male circumcision and reduced rates of HIV infection, but, rather, whether mass circumcision is (1) an ethical and safe public health choice, and (2) the most cost-effective use of limited resources.

From American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Nov 2010. Authors Green, et al. Male Circumcision and HIV Prevention: Insufficient Evidence and Neglected External Validity

Last I checked, infant boys are not sexually active and the best way to prevent HIV and STIs is through safe sex practices and education. Also, consider the U.S. has the highest rate of HIV infection in the Western world and also the highest circumcision rates. Also, it's important to take into account the demographics of those who contract HIV, which makes up a very, very small percentage of heterosexual individuals who are also not intravenous drug users.

chetrick · September 2014

As a girl from New England (RI), a circumcised penis really freaks me out (do people look at a penis and think "that's a great looking penis?"). My son is uncircumcised and there have been zero issues.

soulcupcake · September 2014

chetrick said: As a girl from New England (RI), a circumcised penis really freaks me out (do people look at a penis and think "that's a great looking penis?"). My son is uncircumcised and there have been zero issues.
---------- quote box fail-----------

Right? A penis is a penis. I don't think "Oh! That one doesn't have a hoodie, so it's cute." It's a fucking penis, for crying out loud. It isn't meant to be good-looking. It's a sexual organ.

Meether · September 2014

We moved here from the Uk, but I remember my dad coming home from the gym and telling my mom that all American men are circumcised, he was so surprised! I have girls but DH (American, Jewish) and I have decided if we have a son in the future, we won't circumcise. We just don't think it's necessary, we will teach him to clean himself properly. I'm pretty sure the US has one of the highest HIV/std rates in the developed world. So much for circumcision helping, maybe it has to do with the fact that we have private healthcare and doctors make money off of this procedure? If it was really necessary, then Medicare would cover it....why did they stop?

colliebabe · September 2014

katehgee said:
Yep! I'm going to out myself as a former promiscuous college student, but I have seen my fair share of penises, both circumcised and uncircumcised. Neither looked weirder than the others. MH is not circumcised, and our little guy (and possible future little guys) won't be either. Anyone who spends that much time penis comparing with his peers gets what he deserves.

This. I don't care what others do, but the locker room argument is old. With the statistics changing now and more people choosing not to circ, chances are there are going to be plenty of both circ'd and uncirc'd penises in our children's generation. Heck even the men my age that aren't circ'd said that they were never teased in the locker room for it.

colliebabe · September 2014

@Anna930 I think it could still occur for our generation, but if the stats are changing for babies being born now, then both circ'd and uncirc'd penises are going to be common when our kids are teenagers. That is kind of what I was trying to say in my post. My DD has more of a chance of seeing an uncirc'd penis than I did, if you know what I mean.

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