C-sections less traumatic?

Stargirlb · August 2014

So I've heard a couple people say that c-sections are "less traumatic" than vaginal births. I know of some who elect to have them, without a medical reason. That's fine, I am all about supporting women's choice of how/where they give birth, no matter what their reason. Just the desire alone is good enough for me!

That said, this video of a c-section being performed just came across my newsfeed. Despite all my reading, I had actually never seen one before. All I can say is WOW. Holy shit. If I had to have a c-section I would def make sure I had a doc who performed a "gentle" one. Watching this, I don't think anyone could say that this is the "Easy way out" pardon the pun.

(Obviously don't watch if birth videos or surgical birth videos are too much for you.)

https://tinyurl.com/o8cmhrs

LaBellaVida · August 2014

I'm not gonna watch, I get a little grossed out, but I've seen them and they seem so. ....violent lol.

I'm really not sure if there is a gentle way though, seems like they really gotta get all in there.

Stargirlb · August 2014

contrasted with this free birth (my fave vid. fast forward to 8minutes if you just want to cut to the chase

):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFMHB4RqpjI (not graphic.)

LaBellaVida · August 2014

Yeah, I've seen that video. ^^

mom2case · August 2014

C-sections are major surgery. Both methods permanently change your body, but in different ways. I can still hold my pee just fine while some women who've had a vaginal birth can't. My scar randomly feels attached again and will tug and pull when I move. People with a vaginal birth don't experience that. And your lady bits on the inside are never quite the same after labor no matter which way your baby came out. I've had both types of births and don't give a darn what kind happens with this LO. For a c-section though, you're completely numb and can't feel a thing. I couldn't even feel the "pressure" of them tugging. I recovered very quickly and didn't mind that method of birth at all. The VBAC recovery was infinitely faster and an easier experience in general, but my baby was only 2lb 10 oz so that made a difference.

Maebb · August 2014

I didn't watch either video, but I had a vaginal birth with an epidural, and it wasn't the least bit traumatic.

jc51723 · August 2014

I'm not watching that video. I had a c section, DD was frank breech. It was scary, although I didn't feel a thing. My husband watched and he said it was pretty intense and I was literally coming up off the table. I was oblivious to that, thank goodness. Just being awake through the whole thing was scary for me. This time I'm terrified of a repeat C, if I end up having one. I mean, just terrified, way more than the first time! I switched hospitals though so now I have the option for a vbac, but that's freaking me out too!

Mrs_Bennett · August 2014

Not watching the video because I'd most likely be out cold if I did....
But I've had two vaginal births, and neither of them were traumatic or violent. There is no way that I would ever elect for a major surgery instead of a vaginal birth, unless our lives truly depended on it.
That being said, if someone else chooses an elective c-section..... , it's your body, your recovery, and I really don't care!

MusicFanatic · August 2014

CrazyMonkeyBear said:

I'm not going to watch the videos posted, though. I'm already freaking out about birth, and I still have ~20 weeks to go until I get there. Normally, blood and guts wouldn't bother me, but for some reason, I have a weaker stomach now that I'm pregnant.

I've actually found that watching birthing videos has helped me

(I did watch both of the above- the c-section freaked me out 100x more- but I'm not into slicing videos in general).

I've been super terrified of giving birth, probably for the first 20 weeks. Like terrified. Since I'm supposed to be resting, I've had free time on my hands and I've actually been watching a lot of videos, researching, etc. And believe it or not, my tables have kinda turned and I'm getting more comfortable with it (and definitely more informed). I can almost claim with a small part of me (very small) that I'm getting excited. It's helped to dive right in. Not saying that would work for everyone (you) but it's helped me immensely.

thompnia · August 2014

I have to say the c section video is pretty accurate. In my area, there are a few differences. For example, I've never seen a doctor use forceps to remove the baby's head - usually they just use their hands and if there is not enough space they extend the incision. The assistant will also push on the fundus to help push the baby out.

I'm not a fan of the draping in this surgery... The drape should be lifted so mom's face is not visible. It's not cool to have the gas wafting over the drapes. Mom did not appear to be conscious, so I can't see any benefit from doing it this way.

I respect if a woman chooses to have a c section electively, even if I don't understand it. It is major abdominal surgery - there is nothing easy about it. Too many people say, "it's just a c section." There is no 'just' to flaying a person to get to the uterus and yank the baby out of a hole not much larger than your vagina.

Stargirlb · August 2014

well there is no blood coming out of that second one I posted, the unassisted home birth. I find that video one of the most affirming "I can do this!" birth vids there are! Highly recommend it. And most of the other free birth youtube vids, even if that's not a route you would ever choose.

MusicFanatic · August 2014

Stargirlb said:

well there is no blood coming out of that second one I posted, the unassisted home birth. I find that video one of the most affirming "I can do this!" birth vids there are! Highly recommend it. And most of the other free birth youtube vids, even if that's not a route you would ever choose.

If only I would be so calm when I give birth. I was astounded at her ease and calmness. (and on the other end, I watched one the other day that was quite the opposite and I was for sure thinking she would break some glass with her screams). Nice to see all ends of it, though.

Tauristar · August 2014

I came across the second unasstisted home birth video while I was pregnant with my DS. It helped me tremendously, she is so calm and in control. None of the Hollywood screaming and fear. She is dealing with the pain like a soldier. It gives new respect for the female body.
My plans for a natural birth didn't work out, DS was breech. When they went in he was so small that my doctor couldn't reach him. I ended up with a low incision externally but a vertical and horizontal incision in the uterus.
Traumatic, heck yeah, but everything was. I was having a 29 weeker in distress so there were 20 doctors and nurses all very serious and clearly stressed by the situation.
Needless to say VBAC isn't the best option for me, I'm hoping for a much less traumatic C-Section this time.

BookitBoo · August 2014

I've never had a natural birth but I would never call a Csection 'less traumatic.' But when I needed one, I was 1000% more concerned about DS than my own body. His Heart rate kept dropping and I was worried they wouldn't get to him in time. I'm pretty sure I held my breath until they pulled him out, perfect and blinking sleepily at me. He did not cry and the nurses told DH they would have to be more rough with him while bathing him to check out his lungs. And he does have a nice set of lungs.

Just some affirmation: If you end up needing (or even wanting) a Csection it's not the end of the world. You can do it. Your body is pretty amazing. And even If it looks traumatic, it's not that painful in the moment. I mean, maybe it's more traumatic if you're watching it, IDK. In addition to having a drape, I wasn't wearing my glasses and I'm incredibly near sighted so I wouldn't have seen much anyway. My recovery was a little unique but once I got over the initial hurdle it was fairly simple recovery.

robsbabygirl08 · August 2014

thompnia said:
I have to say the c section video is pretty accurate. In my area, there are a few differences. For example, I've never seen a doctor use forceps to remove the baby's head - usually they just use their hands and if there is not enough space they extend the incision. The assistant will also push on the fundus to help push the baby out.

I'm not a fan of the draping in this surgery... The drape should be lifted so mom's face is not visible. It's not cool to have the gas wafting over the drapes. Mom did not appear to be conscious, so I can't see any benefit from doing it this way.

I respect if a woman chooses to have a c section electively, even if I don't understand it. It is major abdominal surgery - there is nothing easy about it. Too many people say, "it's just a c section." There is no 'just' to flaying a person to get to the uterus and yank the baby out of a hole not much larger than your vagina.

It definitely seemed like an older method than what I've ever seen. The first thing I noticed was how they did the dissection, I don't think I've ever seen them actually cut the rectus muscles, they usually just pull them apart so the "split" on a more natural plane. And I have NEVER seen forceps used during a c-section. As far as draping goes, WTF ;-)

chauliodus · August 2014

I agree that it depends on one's definition of trauma. A CS is major abd surgery. I've seen a lot of CS and a lot of vaginal births going through a pediatric residency. The first time I saw a CS at as 3rd year med student, I was convinced something was going wrong with all the pressure/pushing and bleeding. But everyone was totally calm and CS are bit of a different beast than regular abd surgery. You still have to get something big out a small hole. I'm not sure there is such a thing as a gentle CS unless there is a large cut. It does take a lot of pressure to get the baby's head out of the uterus no matter which way one delivers unless they make a huge incision which will be harder to heal from. One does bleed more from a CS than a vaginal delivery but it's also mixed with amniotic fluid so it's not straight blood that you see. I've also not seen a lot of forceps use in the OR, usually the surgeon uses their hands while the nurse or resident applies pressure to the top of the uterus, so I would not say this is a totally accurate representation of CS in the US. I've also seen plenty of good vaginal deliveries and plenty of not-so-great ones, medicated and non-medicated. Trauma is entirely in the eye of the beholder. If one could physically see the contractions and pressure gradients that occur during a vaginal birth, it's not going to look peaceful either. 3rd/4th degree tears, shoulder dystocia and meconium are not fun during vaginal deliveries either.

Should people be able to have a totally elective CS at 38 wks without any medical reasons? Probably not, but there is absolutely a place and time for doing a CS. I guess I really don't see the point of posting a CS video, it seems like "oh, look how scary this way of giving birth is!" The fact is, there are women on these boards who have had CS and will be having more or women that are planning for a vaginal birth that will end in CS for reasons beyond their control. I don't want anyone to be more scared or feel bad about getting a CS if they wind up needing one. Most people recover from CS just fine, you can have lingering issues after both types of births.

sanbry · August 2014

I would consider my c section somewhat traumatic. I had been in labor 36 hours when I had it, my DD had meconium present in the water so there was fear of aspiration and I felt actual pain on my left side during, because my epidural line shifted during labor. I also lost a lot of blood. I wish I could have delivered vaginally, but in the end we were both fine and healthy and haven't had a single issue since and I really applaud my drs for trying every last option before the c section. Sometimes they are necessary.

Beauxbaton · August 2014

I had a vagibal delivery. I had a great nurse who was training to be a doula, I was allowed to walk around. Be all the birthing ball, be in the shower, and eat. I still had a panic attack and passed out during labor. While I don't particularly want a csection, I'm not afraid of one. I find it somewhat pointless to be afraid of a csection. Sometimes thats what it comes down to, and that's how it goes. More than likely the more stressed or upset you are about having a csection the more traumatic it is. I'd like see statistics (or a poll) of women who had an emergency csection first time around and a RSC the second time, and if they found the second way less traumatic, or if they were equally traumatic.

The way I go into everything I "go as long as I can without " When I had DS it was go as long as possible without medication, once I got medication it was go as long as possible without a csection. I didn't end up having a csection because it was a completely different experience after the epidural was placed.

I find this post kind of fear mongery. "Look how traumatic traumatic this csection is. Now look how " beautiful" and calm this free birth video is." Not everyone would be that calm giving birth at home by themselves. So for some people the second birth would be way more traumatic than the first.

MusicFanatic · August 2014

chauliodus said:
I guess I really don't see the point of posting a CS video, it seems like "oh, look how scary this way of giving birth is!" The fact is, there are women on these boards who have had CS and will be having more or women that are planning for a vaginal birth that will end in CS for reasons beyond their control.

I don't actually believe it was posted for that reason, unless I'm way off base. In fact, she stated right in her OP that she supports all ways of birth. I don't think it was meant to be a scare tactic- more of an educational piece to show how it can be. That's how I read into it. And I actually appreciate that. As much as we hope and plan to perhaps have our birth a certain way, it doesn't always work this way. And any of us can end up having a CS- and like you said, some already planned and know so. And some when things don't work out as expected. I appreciate seeing how it's performed. Like I said above, I personally feel more comfortable and at ease when educated and informed about how things work. If I go BLINDY into something, I tend to have a "freak the hell out" mentality. If I grasp it beforehand, I don't have that as much. Knowledge is power

And that includes watching a video that might look scary. It's still knowledge.

Beauxbaton · August 2014

MusicFanatic said:

chauliodus said:
I guess I really don't see the point of posting a CS video, it seems like "oh, look how scary this way of giving birth is!" The fact is, there are women on these boards who have had CS and will be having more or women that are planning for a vaginal birth that will end in CS for reasons beyond their control.

I don't actually believe it was posted for that reason, unless I'm way off base. In fact, she stated right in her OP that she supports all ways of birth. I don't think it was meant to be a scare tactic- more of an educational piece to show how it can be. That's how I read into it. And I actually appreciate that. As much as we hope and plan to perhaps have our birth a certain way, it doesn't always work this way. And any of us can end up having a CS- and like you said, some already planned and know so. And some when things don't work out as expected. I appreciate seeing how it's performed. Like I said above, I personally feel more comfortable and at ease when educated and informed about how things work. If I go BLINDY into something, I tend to have a "freak the hell out" mentality. If I grasp it beforehand, I don't have that as much. Knowledge is power

And that includes watching a video that might look scary. It's still knowledge.

------
There's ways to be educated on csections without having to watch a video. When I took birthing classes last pregnancy the birth prep class used an animation. It still showed the incision, spreading of muscles, moving the organs out of the way. And pulling the baby out and sewing it up, and everything in detail. Id say it was more "weak stomach friendly." Accurate, but probably wouldn't make anyone pass out.

LadyXaverian · August 2014

None of this is meant to be a rebuttal to anything anyone has said- these are just my thoughts:

I think giving birth any way can be traumatic or not traumatic.

I labored for 18 hour and then pushed for 2 hours to no avail. Nora was stuck up high for a couple of reasons (large fibroid, large baby combination), and so I had a c-section.

I was not traumatized emotionally by the 20 hours of trying to get her out vaginally; I was not traumatized emotionally by the c-section. I have no regrets.

Physically speaking, recovery wasn't a cake walk, but I also wouldn't say that my body was physically traumatized by any of it.

Birth matters, healthy babies matter. I hope everyone gets what they are hoping for when it comes to delivering their baby, whatever that may be. No choice is less valid or less beautiful or less miraculous than another. I hope no one is physically or emotionally traumatized. I hope all of us bring home healthy babies.

BookitBoo · August 2014

@LadyXaverian‌

I think I love you.

NatureLovers · August 2014

Honestly, before I got pregnant, I assumed I would deliver vaginally. Now I know that that is risky for my personal situation, and I'm completely at peace with the idea of a c-section. That doesn't mean I'm not nervous or scared, but I'd feel that way regardless. I now have zero desire to deliver vaginally, suffering hours of terrible labor, culmininating with the possibility of severe tears and peeing on myself every time I sneeze. I have suffered way too much pain and misery with this pregnancy already, I don't need more. Kegels don't work for everybody. 3rd and 4th degree tears happen. My MIL had a bladder and uterine prolapse after one 7lb baby. Awful things happen with vag deliveries too, and I found the UC video to be way more traumatic and scary looking than the c-section.

Disneygeek77 · August 2014

My first was born via emergency c-section at 32 weeks due to her heart rate dropping. She did end up passing away 15 weeks later after having open heart surgery.

My second pregnancy was very difficult mentally. She didn't have any birth defects like her sister but I still had an impending sense of doom. I just couldn't imagine coming home from the hospital with a healthy baby. My Dr gave me a choice between a RCS and a VBAC ( and I think he was trying to gently steer me towards a VBAC) and after thinking about it for a while, I chose I RCS. I understood if came with more risks, but I did it mostly for my mental health at the time and decided to go with what I had already experienced, what I already knew and what I could plan. I was so afraid of having a panic attack during a vaginal birth and then I would panic for having a panic attack and I would probably spiral down. Again, I also understood something could go wrong during a c-section, but the thought of it didn't make my heart race like with a vaginal birth. Therefore I chose a RCS mostly for my mental health. I understand my choice seems very strange but I did what was best for me at the time.

LadyXaverian · August 2014

Disneygeek77 said:

Therefore I chose a RCS mostly for my mental health. I understand my choice seems very strange but I did what was best for me at the time.

Totally valid choice for valid reasons.

Not implying that this was the intent of the original post, because I don't think it was at all, but it really gets to me that anyone feels they have to explain their choices related to birth.

F*** anyone who has any opinion to give anyone on their "birth plan". I mean, maybe if someone told me they wanted to give birth from a flying trapeze, I *might* try to steer them in a different direction, but other than that, I have nothing to say about it.

When I was planning my hypnobirthing vaginal birth, I got tons of snarky comments. ("You won't win a medal if you go without the drugs" etc...)

When I had a c-section, I got tons of accusatory questions about "WHY?!?" (It was probably an "unnecessarian" etc...)

F*** them all.

A button of mine might feel pushed right now by no one person and for no apparent reason. Thanks for letting me rant about it!

I also want to add that I didn't watch either of the videos, so I'm not disagreeing that this particular c/s video looks more traumatic than this particular natural birth video.

letsgox · August 2014

I agree with many posters. C-sections are definitely not the "easy way out." Many women labor first and then require surgery. Then, you have the vaginal and abdominal pains to deal with. That's not exactly how I've seen them done, but for the most part: yes. It is, after all, major surgery. I would just hate for anyone to feel badly/guilty/shameful about their birth experience no matter which way the baby came out.

These are surgeries that save the lives of many babies every day.

Beauxbaton · August 2014

@LadyXaverian‌ what about a dolphin assisted birth?!

https://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/a-dolphin-doula-couple-plans-animal-assisted-childbirth/article12194288/?service=mobile

BookitBoo · August 2014

That's interesting!

I would like a manatee assisted birth. Those guys are just so cute and sweet! But I really don't want to labor in water, and I don't think I can get a sea cow in Kansas.

@CuppyCakes721‌

Beauxbaton · August 2014

BookitBoo said:
That's interesting!

I would like a manatee assisted birth. Those guys are just so cute and sweet! But I really don't want to labor in water, and I don't think I can get a sea cow in Kansas.

@CuppyCakes721‌

Well, you could have a regular cow. I think I know a few people you could borrow one from :P

LadyXaverian · August 2014

By dolphin, by manatee, by flying trapeze. In a hospital, or at home. With or without medical interventions. It's sometimes traumatic, sometimes not, but always awesome, beautiful, and miraculous, in my opinion.

womberptyof4 · August 2014

Well the unassisted birth video def will help someone ease anxiety. To be 100% honest I was terrified of a c section with my first and still am. I was able to give birth vaginally and without any complications I am hoping for that same outcome this time.

BookitBoo · August 2014

@LadyXaverian‌ for president!

LadyXaverian · August 2014

womberptyof4 said:

Well the unassisted birth video def will help someone ease anxiety. To be 100% honest I was terrified of a c section with my first and still am. I was able to give birth vaginally and without any complications I am hoping for that same outcome this time.

It is my goal to help people not fear c-sections. You know the groups of people who advocate for low-intervention births? I want to do that, sort of, but for c-sections. Not in a "everyone should choose a c-section" kind of way, but it an "there's nothing to be afraid or ashamed of" kind of way.

That said, I hope you are able to have an uncomplicated, vaginal delivery. Good luck!!

LadyXaverian · August 2014

LOL @BookitBoo. I've just been thinking about it a lot as I'm going to be faced soon with deciding whether or not I want to pursue VBAC or opt for the RCS. I've not talked about it much with anyone other than my husband and my OB because no one else's opinion matters to me, but birth choices and all that goes into making them has been on my mind.

Disneygeek77 · August 2014

MarxieVonTrapp · August 2014

I had to get a c section and was not traumatized by it. I felt guilt for not being able to deliver vaginally, but that has dissipated over time.

Recovery was pretty easy. I was back to one mile walks within two weeks. Everyone is different. A friend of mine had a med-free, unassisted birth, and wound up having to get complete reconstructive surgery on her vagina and anus. So...yeah. Everyone is different, and everyone has different experiences.

Thank you, LadyXaverian.

NatureLovers · August 2014

Um, this entire thread was focusing on c-section horror stories, to point out how c-sections are more traumatic than vag births @Beckydewell‌ So the other side of the coin definitely deserves to be heard. There's this idea that vag births are "always" the better, safer choice and that simply is not true.

longcat07 · August 2014

i'm all for being educated and informed, but i'm not a fan of horror stories on either side of the coin. traumatic birth experiences (and births that are traumatic physically) can happen no matter how it's done. we all get that.

i had a vaginal birth with minor interventions and it was not traumatic. i wouldn't say it was a wonderful, empowering experience, because it absolutely wasn't, but i think that had more to do with the bad place i was in at the time than anything else. it was hard work and it hurt like a bitch, everywhere, but it wasn't traumatic at all. i have a friend who's had two c-sections and will be having a third in november, and she wasn't traumatized by her experiences either, nor did she have especially hard recoveries. every situation is unique, and there isn't a real point in fearing any kind of birth (although i realize that it's not a rational thing, so that's not meant to be a criticism). i just don't think that horror stories in general are particularly helpful at this juncture.

Stargirlb · August 2014

"Um, this entire thread was focusing on c-section horror stories, to point out how c-sections are more traumatic than vag births"

wat.

when/where/how?

My OP was in reference to something I've heard somewhat often from elective-csectioners (non-emergency, or non-high-risk) that a vag birth sounds traumatic and horrifying so they just want the nice clean section. After seeing this video of an actual section (and continuing my spree on youtube, since I'm addicted to watching surgery and birth videos anyways,) I was hit with "what!? This is in no way 'nice clean simple' or 'easy way out' it's actually pretty freaking hardcore IMO and it's amazing what a woman's body can heal from and go on to produce more babies just fine only a year later.

That's all. I find this sort of thing highly educational, and seeing it is disillusioning.

Obviously "trauma is in the eye of the beholder" or else people would not make all sorts of different choices. The choice YOU make of how/where to give birth, whether you are all alone in the jungle or with a team of surgeons at hand in a fully equipped medical facility is yours entirely, and I fully support the sovereignty of women over their own bodies.

It looks like basically every person on this thread is saying the same thing, with their own personal flavour of experience. With the exception of whoever was accusing me of "fear mongering." lolz.

I don't see a focus on "c-section horror stores" at ALL.

Stargirlb · August 2014

Oh, and naturelovers, remember when you told me that you hoped neither me nor my baby 'pays the ultimate price' for my birth choice? That's a pretty shitty thing to say to someone.

LadyXaverian · August 2014

I didn't think you were fear mongering at all @stargirlb.

You may be referring to different conversations that the ones I'm about to reference, but many planned c-section moms I've spoken with have told me that their 2nd c/s, when planned, was less traumatic emotionally and physically than their first one which was an emergency or at least unplanned and sometimes preceded by a long labor and pushing.

I can absolutely see that being true.

Otherwise, as I've said a few times in this thread, I think all births have the potential to be amazing and empowering or scary and traumatic. Or maybe a mix of both.

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