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October 2013 Moms
UO
This discussion has been closed.
Re: UO
Nope octopus. I can't even keep track of how many families my husband and brother have had to tell that their little kid has died or is permanently, life-alteringly injured due to ATV and motorcycle accidents.
There is a reason that we don't allow 11 year olds to drive cars. We don't allow them to execute legally-binding contracts. And we don't allow them to be tried as adults for crimes they commit.
It is because the brains of 8, 10, 12, 14 year old kids are fundamentally different than adult brains. Even the "smartest" kids don't always fully understand that their actions have real world consequences. Research has shown time and again that even though parents tell their elementary-middle school (and even many high school) kids, they don't really comprehend that the special effects they see actors pull off in movies defy physics/laws of gravity, and that they will not be able to do the same tricks on their bikes/atv. They are much more susceptible to peer pressure to attempt things that they may otherwise never try. They see characters spring back to life for the 999th time in their favorite video game after sustaining life-ending injuries and don't fully understand the finality of death.
Those cases get to my family members who treat them. They come home and talk about how the parents are usually good parents, who bought expensive toys for their kids because "that is just how it is around here," "I grew up riding ATVs/motorcycles and nothing happened to me," and "but he had gone out riding lots before and nothing had ever happened."
Again, kids are not adults. Kids don't grasp that a hard dirt hill that was super fun to ride the other day when it hadn't rained in a month is totally different 2 days after a gully washer, causing the kid to get halfway up the hill, the ATV to pull off the soft ground and then fall backwards and crush the kid to death (that happened two weeks ago). Adults understand that terrain constantly changes from life experience and know that even the same path is not always going to act the same two rides in a row. Kids just don't have enough experiences to process those complex calculations that most of us take for granted when we get behind the wheel.
Kids on motorcycles or ATVs is fucking stupid. My husband grew up doing all that stuff as a way of life in his small, rural town, and medical school and his experiences in the children's ER completely changed his mind as to the "value" of allowing kids who we don't allow to make any other life-altering decisions (get tried as adults for crimes, vote, enter into contracts, decide whether or not to attend school, etc.) get behind the wheel of a gas-powered vehicle that can and does kill hundreds of kids every year and seriously injure thousands more...
Parents always say, "I wish I had known..." There just isn't enough publicity about how fundamentally stupid it is to allow your child/young teenager to play on ATVs/small motorcycles.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-professionals/clinical-updates/trauma/all-terrain-vehicles-too-much-for-kids-handle
TL;dr: Kids driving gas-powered vehicles is super fucking dumb. It doesn't teach responsibility. It teaches false confidence. I am at a loss for words that anyone could think differently--even though I have to hear the stories from my husband routinely about devastated parents who clearly didn't get the memo. That sounds harsh--and maybe it is too harsh. But those kids died/were horribly injured unnecessarily. And that royally grinds my gears.
Not required in AZ or FL either. Stoooopid. I've seen too many accidents to think motorcycles are safe. It's not how you drive as a motorcyclist, it's the cars around you. Not a fan.
Amjoy will throw you one. But we will call it "happy hour". Oks??
LO then (2 days) and now (1 year)
My DH is totes a giant, English-speaking dog.
I am only talking about parents who give a child the tools to kill/injure themselves, not understanding that kids just inherently don't have the ability to rationally run a similar risk/benefit analysis for each ride, regardless of how many times you try to "teach" them to be safe.
I'm a SAHM and have totally considered what I would do if suddenly widowed. This is why we have a savings account and life insurance. Sure it's morbid, but I'd rather be practical than find myself stuck in a terrible situation.
On the other hand, if you slow down 50 or 100 feet before the lane ends and put on your turn signal and wait patiently, I will come to a dead-ass halt and graciously wave you ahead of me.
I tried to phrase this as a UO, but it may be more of a FFFC.
Me too!!
Anyone disappointed that I'm not actually a pink flower?
#pullsoutallthegoodresearch
You will be forgiven if you will g2g with me and @missgpsu next time I am near PA.
You will be forgiven if you will g2g with me and @missgpsu next time I am near PA.
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Put your feet down at lights. Please. Also don't be dumb.
I think it's just as irresponsible to ignore your health. Personal anecdote (which we all know means FACT): My father had a heart attack in his 30s. He lived another 30 years overweight and with high cholesterol and then had another heart attack which killed him. So even though my father never stepped foot on a motorcycle (with or without a helmet) or jumped out of a plane or drove way too fast and recklessly on the highway, my son still never gets to meet his namesake.
Ok, this is one example, but there are SO MANY OTHERS I come across everyday, which I can't list here because HIPPA and I just get mad when people ignore their health. Exercise and take care of yourselves, people!!!
And to the many patients at work who tell me they "don't have diabetes and don't need insulin," just because you do not check your blood sugar or take medicine does not mean the disease doesn't exist.
Edit bc I used an extraneous comma and it was killing me.
I know it must be a heartbreaking decision but trust me you want them to pass with you, not with us.
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True but I think it's so sad that people die cut open on a table amongst strangers when they could have been in he presence of loved ones instead.
Eta: stuck in box
#2 due 12.23.17
Obviously if someone has cancer that's untreatable and they do surgery to debulk tumors for palliative reasons that is totally different.
Also, no amount of training or learning can account for the driver of the car that just didn't see you on the motorcycle.
I get that we want our loved ones to be here longer and WE want to be here longer, but at some point, cost effectiveness needs to be included in our decisions, lest we continue to broke this country's healthcare system. I realize this was more about selfishness, but cost is important. #damnhealthcarebusinessmakingmerational
I assume you are a medical professional. It is easy for us to think clearly about medical decision-making because it is our job and we know the consequences, etc. But in general, you can't make blanket statements like this. Just because you wouldn't want to die that way doesn't mean you can dictate how others do. Have to respect patient autonomy. You have to remember you are dealing with soneones mother, father, brother, etc. I've seen people go to surgery who were absolutely going to die without it, probably die with it. Patient and family knew and they wanted to give her a shot in hell. What if it was your child? Would you give them a shot? In addition, if the surgeon is even willing to take the person to surgery then there is probably a smidge of hope of some kind. Some surgeons will say the patient is too unstable and call it then.
Hum, this sounds like we could start talking about the cost of this...and if it truely is only going to give them another few months, why do it? #tooexpensive Quality of life, quantity of life, etc.
I get that we want our loved ones to be here longer and WE want to be here longer, but at some point, cost effectiveness needs to be included in our decisions, lest we continue to broke this country's healthcare system. I realize this was more about selfishness, but cost is important. #damnhealthcarebusinessmakingmerational
------- eta: stuck in quote box damn mobile -------
@Amjoy25 are palliative surgeries not typically covered by ins? We see palliative surgeries all the time but I admit being bedside, billing/finances/insurance behind that kind of ish isn't my forte... Just beginning to wrap my head around if all.
I'm with you 100%, we spend an exorbitant amt of $ in last year of life, proably with little benefit and much harm/suffering. However, what you speak of is also called "rationing medical care". Some family members won't understand that letting grandma go in peace without medical interventions is what's best for her or the system, Cost is rarely discussed because of the "ration" word.
I've never seen this happen, I'm sorry if you have. If there are written prior wishes from the patient, you'd be hard-pressed to find a surgeon that would operate because a family member told them to. You can't force a surgeon to operate.
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Eta stuck in quote box again even though I tried very hard not to be! Damnit mobile.
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I actually cared for a pt last week whose family did this. Typically, I am vehemently opposed to disobeying the patients wishes (esp when they can no longer speak and advocate for themselves) but in that particular situation, dealing with a very aggressive and rare type of leukemia, I can't say I disagreed with the family's decision. Most importantly, when the last stitch effort by heme onc/pulmonology was unsuccessful everyone was respectful and realistic and it was a beautiful end of life process to be a part of and the patient was able to live out their own will.
Medicine is so tricky. It's difficult to make blanket statements because much of medicine and the human body processes can be a gray area.
For example, women get mammograms every damn year after 40...is this necessary? No. Just because insurance will pay for it does not make it right. Granted, there are those at higher risk for breast cancer that absolutely should have imaging once a year, but others, no.
Another for example, oncologists are notorious for doing surgeries because they get paid a butt ton to do so. My husband's great aunt was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer...she has cancer in her liver & stomach...they are doing a surgical procedure to remove all the cancers. This is just wrong IMO. She's 90 lbs and prob will not make it out of surgery. So wrong.