Improving Birth Labor Day Rally

painttheair14 · July 2014

Are you planning to attend one of the Labor Day Rallies sponsored by Improving Birth?

peanutmuse · July 2014

Never heard of it. But no, probably not.

ccip82 · July 2014

I have not heard of this. What is the point of the rally? Is this a US thing?

peanutmuse · July 2014

@ccip82 -- I just looked it up. It really looks like it's one of those "no one should ever be induced, c-sections are bad, fetal monitoring is bad, all women who have had a c/s should try for a VBAC" type things.

So yeah, eff no. Definitely not my thing.

peanutmuse · July 2014

itsmeally said:

Ha! Guess they would be rallying against me then. Induction turned c-section and all the fetal monitoring...

Yup, me too @itsmeally.

ccip82 · July 2014

Considering I had a planned C/S for my first (breech presentation) and a failed VBAC resulting in an emergency C/S for my second...This rally would most definitely not be for me.

For people who think C/S and fetal monitoring are bad....WTF would you do if your LO's HR was dropping off the chart with everyone of your contractions? My emergency C/S and monitoring quite possibly saved my son's life.

I do not understand the logic behind this new birth movement when taken to the extreme. This further proves my point that people today are effing idiots. Educate yourselves. Seriously.

nolagal79 · July 2014

I will most definitely not be participating with my planned/scheduled c-section self.

Without the section, there's a high possibility my uterus would've ruptured putting baby and me in life or death jeopardy. Eff that.

KrystalCrockett · July 2014

I want to start a rally to support moms in their decisions. Where is that sign up sheet?

peanutmuse · July 2014

@PaintTheAir -- are you going to this rally?

caloneis · July 2014

I spoke with a woman organizing this in my town at a LLL meeting. She framed it as an action protesting hospitals with blanket no-VBAC policies. I don't plan on attending but I have no problem with that. Although I am sure it attracts the "natural" birth is best crowd. For the record, I was in labor for 27 hours with pitocin and epidural, almost had to have a c/s, and S was born with pneumonia and had to be in hospital for a week.

precious72381 · July 2014

Nope. I believe in modern medicine and doing what is best for baby and mommy. I was induced, monitored, and almost a csection but she came out with the vacuum. Her heartbeat dropped with every contraction and I was on oxygen. Oh and on all the drugs!!! I think it is amazing that some women do it without drugs but next time I would get the drugs sooner, not at 8cm (not my decision - no one could get me an epidural for 3 hours!).

monkeybutt61612 · July 2014

I'll go, but I'll wear low rise undies and a crop top to let my c-section and epidural scars hang out.

painttheair14 · July 2014

@peanutmuse‌ Yes I am attending if I am able to make it!

In my understanding, the group is dedicated to evidence based practices. They are NOT anti c-section, hospitals, etc. Instead, they are pro women having choices and being informed. Whatever decision a woman makes with that information is fine!

I am most definitely all about evidence based birth!

Eta tag and a sentence

painttheair14 · July 2014

tarajeannette said:

ccip82 said:

Considering I had a planned C/S for my first (breech presentation) and a failed VBAC resulting in an emergency C/S for my second...This rally would most definitely not be for me.

For people who think C/S and fetal monitoring are bad....WTF would you do if your LO's HR was dropping off the chart with everyone of your contractions? My emergency C/S and monitoring quite possibly saved my son's life.

I do not understand the logic behind this new birth movement when taken to the extreme. This further proves my point that people today are effing idiots. Educate yourselves. Seriously.

Exactly. I've said it before and a I'll say it again, it's shit like this that ruins it for the rest of us. All we should want for every woman is to know all of her options, presented as much without bias as possible. It's about choice and education and the more people make it into a GD lifestyle choice, the more polarized these CHOICES become. I swear to effing eff.

-------eta this is where quote ends-------

I don't know how to bold on mobile but I agree with the bit about wanting women to know their choices. That is what this group is about. I think almost any cause taken to an extreme is dangerous.

I imagine thus rally more to be a group of people sharing information, not like angry protesters yelling. The one I'm going to is in a park, nowhere near a hospital.

SandFHasse · July 2014

I looked it up and there's no way in hell that I would go to one of these. I had a c section this time around and I have a healthy happy baby because of it. My c section saved my son's life.

peanutmuse · July 2014

PaintTheAir said:

@peanutmuse‌ Yes I am attending if I am able to make it! In my understanding, the group is dedicated to evidence based practices. They are NOT anti c-section, hospitals, etc. Instead, they are pro women having choices and being informed. Whatever decision a woman makes with that information is fine! I am most definitely all about evidence based birth! Eta tag and a sentence

@PaintTheAir, I think the real question is -- does anyone here feel like they were not informed about their chioces? I know that I don't feel that way. All you need to do is ask the questions. You don't need a rally to do that.

And their "evidence" -- did you actually read the 22 sources they cited? I went through a few of them. Not impressed.

peanutmuse · July 2014

PaintTheAir said:

I imagine thus rally more to be a group of people sharing information, not like angry protesters yelling. The one I'm going to is in a park, nowhere near a hospital.

Confirmation bias does not equate to responsible discourse on a topic.

peanutmuse · July 2014

Arya808 said:

Truth. If we're going to rally for anything I think it should be for paid maternity leave or a more breastfeeding-friendly workplace.

Which go hand in hand. (And I totally agree, by the way.)

ccip82 · July 2014

I would protest for maternity leave and I SAH. The standard maternity leave in the US is pitiful. The US lags behind every other industrialized nation and many developing ones on this issue. This should be the conversation that people are having.

precious72381 · July 2014

I felt very informed and that I made my own decisions, when I could, but when my baby's heartrate dropped and I couldn't push my baby out I'm glad the doctor made the choice to get my baby out and I trusted that. I'm not trained to make that decision. I wanted a healthy baby, that was my decision.

painttheair14 · July 2014

esd said:
I was extremely informed with all my deliveries. I had the option of a VBAC with DS1 and decided a RCS was best for me and him.

I don't understand the need for this rally. I've had 3 c/s and am happy with my decisions.

I am glad that you had positive experiences with your 3 births! Sadly, this is not the story for many women. That's who these rallies are for.

painttheair14 · July 2014

If I had gone to our local hospital, I am 80% sure I would have ended up with an unwanted c-section. Since I stayed home, I was able to have a safe vaginal birth.

Would I have welcomed a section if my baby was at risk? Yes. However, I didn't need/want one and avoiding the local hospital was my best bet to do so.

Disclaimer: this varies hospital to hospital. If I were in a different area it could have been a different scenario.

Eta: I don't judge women who make informed desicions to have a c-section for whatever reason. It's your choice for what is best for you and your baby.

peanutmuse · July 2014

PaintTheAir said:

I was extremely informed with all my deliveries. I had the option of a VBAC with DS1 and decided a RCS was best for me and him. I don't understand the need for this rally. I've had 3 c/s and am happy with my decisions.
I am glad that you had positive experiences with your 3 births! Sadly, this is not the story for many women. That's who these rallies are for.

@PaintTheAir, not all women who have unmedicated vaginal deliveries have positive birth experiences either. You do realize that, correct?

painttheair14 · July 2014

peanutmuse said:

PaintTheAir said:

esd said:
I was extremely informed with all my deliveries. I had the option of a VBAC with DS1 and decided a RCS was best for me and him.

I don't understand the need for this rally. I've had 3 c/s and am happy with my decisions.

I am glad that you had positive experiences with your 3 births! Sadly, this is not the story for many women. That's who these rallies are for.

@PaintTheAir, not all women who have unmedicated vaginal deliveries have positive birth experiences either. You do realize that, correct?

_-------------
Absolutely! Birth trauma is a very real thing.

sugarland726 · July 2014

caloneis said:

I spoke with a woman organizing this in my town at a LLL meeting. She framed it as an action protesting hospitals with blanket no-VBAC policies. I don't plan on attending but I have no problem with that.

My hospital has a blanket no VBAC policy. It's a small hospital. Very small. Both deliveries I was the only woman laboring and delivering in the entire hospital. They don't keep an anesthesiologist on hand 24/7. If delivery went south quickly, there is not enough time for him to drive in for the c-section. Maybe the organizers should consider that there might be legitimate reasons for a policy like that.

painttheair14 · July 2014

I feel like I should try to phrase my intents more clearly.

What is best for one woman is not best for all. For one, a c-section would be best, for another an epidural, for another a home birth. In fact, these needs may change throughout her pregnancy! Each of these deserve respect.

My hope is that all women have these options and are able to decide what us best for them, understanding the unpredictability of birth.

painttheair14 · July 2014

@rtsw‌ I don't feel like getting into all the details here. A few key (vague) points that give me this assumption are:

-the c-section rate at that hospital
-items from the report of my first labor
-the way this labor progressed

ETA: The baby was not in position even though I was fully dialated. I had to change my position to get him into a better position. If I had an epidural, I wouldn't have been able to do that. I know I would have had a hard time resisting an epidural if I were there.

While this doesnt guarantee a c-section I feel like these factors combined increase the likelihood.

painttheair14 · July 2014

@esd I'm glad you said EVERYONE came out healthy and not just baby.

I agree that you shouldn't be judged.

Also, sounds like you had great nurses!

amt0312 · July 2014

Edit: don't read my comment, I'm an idiot.

I don't understand this whole movement in improving women's birth experiences. It seems to me that women get traumatized over the littlest things. Like women who go, "oh no! I got an IV during labor and it was the worst thing that could have happened to me!" It's such a selfish mindset. As long as mom and baby are healthy, then who cares?

The birthing process, while undoubtedly important, is such a small part of the whole raising a child process. I agree with @arya808 and that we need to rally for improved maternity leaves, breastfeeding @ work and also some freaking decent affordable child care for everyone.

Roses87 · July 2014

Hmm. I had twice a week nst from 24 weeks on and a c section cause dd was breech. Maybe we should do a safe birth/ healthy baby movement. Some women/babies need closer monitoring, not everyone has uncomplicated pregnancies.

PreDempsey · July 2014

Have I mentioned lately how much I loved my c-section and how you couldn't pay me many dollars to attempt a VBAC?

painttheair14 · July 2014

amt0312 said:
I don't understand this whole movement in improving women's birth experiences. It seems to me that women get traumatized over the littlest things. Like women who go, "oh no! I got an IV during labor and it was the worst thing that could have happened to me!" It's such a selfish mindset. As long as mom and baby are healthy, then who cares?

The birthing process, while undoubtedly important, is such a small part of the whole raising a child process. I agree with @arya808 and that we need to rally for improved maternity leaves, breastfeeding @ work and also some freaking decent affordable child care for everyone.

Please don't play down someone else's trauma. Whether or not the same events would have traumatized you does not change how that person feels.

ETA if the woman leaves with trauma, she is NOT healthy.

painttheair14 · July 2014

@PreDempsey‌ sounds like you made an informed decision to have a c section. Good for you for doing what was right for you!

Eta: or at least feel happy with how the birth went, planned or not.

peanutmuse · July 2014

PaintTheAir said:

I don't understand this whole movement in improving women's birth experiences. It seems to me that women get traumatized over the littlest things. Like women who go, "oh no! I got an IV during labor and it was the worst thing that could have happened to me!" It's such a selfish mindset. As long as mom and baby are healthy, then who cares?

Please don't play down someone else's trauma. Whether or not the same events would have traumatized you does not change how that person feels. ETA if the woman leaves with trauma, she is NOT healthy.

Although I have not agreed with much that you've said in this thread, I do agree with this. This is coming from a person who had kidney stones and an obstruction, stent placement surgery, a nasty antibiotic resistant infection, stent removal surgery, and then a traumatic induction and c-section -- I am no stranger to pain and trauma. Yet I can still say that I had a bad experience with my IV during one of my hospital stays and I just about ripped it out of my arm. Turns out it severely damaged my vein. It felt like burning acid was being poured into my vein. I also had an infiltration in a different vein during the same hospital stay and that caused me to be unable to bear weight on that arm for several days. So yeah, IVs can cause problems.

That being said, none of my IV problems happened during my labor/delivery. You can't prevent trauma from all circumstances, it's just not possible. Not even with this so-called "evidence based birth" nonsense.

RedSaffron · July 2014

I'm confused, what is the point of this rally? Is it a group circle where mothers share their birth experience to FTMs or a rally against hospitals?

My SIL informed me that the hospital we both gave birth at is trying to discontinue the use of epidural during vaginal birth. I don't believe her, but if its true..I would petition to keep epidurals.

Rebis58 · July 2014

amt0312 said:

I don't understand this whole movement in improving women's birth experiences. It seems to me that women get traumatized over the littlest things. Like women who go, "oh no! I got an IV during labor and it was the worst thing that could have happened to me!" It's such a selfish mindset. As long as mom and baby are healthy, then who cares?

The birthing process, while undoubtedly important, is such a small part of the whole raising a child process. I agree with @arya808 and that we need to rally for improved maternity leaves, breastfeeding @ work and also some freaking decent affordable child care for everyone.

@amt0312 okay maybe I'm misreading your intent (I certainly hope I am), but I think it's unfair to minimize the trauma some women feel after giving birth. I highly doubt the majority of women who feel traumatized (physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, whatever) feel that way due to an IV. But even if that is what traumatized them, how on earth is that selfish?? Do you think a person can CHOOSE what is traumatizing and what isn't?

I had a traumatic birth experience. I won't go into details because I've told my story here before and it's probably boring to anyone but me at this point, but I have sadness and anger when I think back to what should have been the best day of my life, but felt like one of the worst. I have anxiety about future pregnancies because I don't want to have to go through that again. It took me longer to bond with my daughter and I had extreme guilt because of that. But because she and I were physically fine after my c-section I shouldn't be traumatized?

Don't get me wrong - I'm so grateful for the medical staff who likely saved my daughter's life and who gave me a perfect c-section that healed well. I love my daughter and our traumatizing start doesn't take away from the wonderful present and future we have together. But just because we were both physically okay doesn't mean I don't have emotional scars. Maybe other women are stronger than me and could (or did) go through an experience similar to mine and come out unscathed, but just because I didn't doesn't mean I should feel guilty, selfish, or foolish for feeling traumatized by my birth experience or wishing it had been different.

Judging women for feeling traumatized (whatever it was that they felt traumatized by - even if it was just the IV that traumatized them) is just as bad in my opinion as judging women for choosing a different birth plan. I won't be going to any rallies and I certainly don't want anyone pushing any birth plan on me, but I also don't want anyone judging me for taking time to work through an extremely scary, painful, and, yes, traumatizing experience.

amt0312 · July 2014

I rescind my comment and realize what I said was uncalled for. Definitely was not my intention to downplay the trauma that women experience during birth. Sorry if I offended anyone. @Rebis58‌ @peanutmuse‌ @paintheair

ChuggingWater · July 2014

Lol. It took 13 tries to get my second IV in for the pitocin (to be induced because I had HELLP). THIRTEEN. Traumatic, yep.

I feel like this was a post that would have been really heated a year ago.

painttheair14 · July 2014

ChuggingWater said:
Lol. It took 13 tries to get my second IV in for the pitocin (to be induced because I had HELLP). THIRTEEN. Traumatic, yep.

I feel like this was a post that would have been really heated a year ago.

Once again, your lack of trauma doesn't negate someone else's trauma in the same experience.

I'm assuming you were being sarcastic with that comment. Sorry if I read that wrong.

SandFHasse · July 2014

PaintTheAir said:

ChuggingWater said:
Lol. It took 13 tries to get my second IV in for the pitocin (to be induced because I had HELLP). THIRTEEN. Traumatic, yep.

I feel like this was a post that would have been really heated a year ago.
Once again, your lack of trauma doesn't negate someone else's trauma in the same experience.

I'm assuming you were being sarcastic with that comment. Sorry if I read that wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong @ChuggingWater but I don't think she was trying to be sarcastic. I think being pricked in the arm 13 times could be traumatic. I'm sure wasn't trying to negate anybode else's experience.

ChuggingWater · July 2014

PaintTheAir said:

ChuggingWater said:
Lol. It took 13 tries to get my second IV in for the pitocin (to be induced because I had HELLP). THIRTEEN. Traumatic, yep.

I feel like this was a post that would have been really heated a year ago.
Once again, your lack of trauma doesn't negate someone else's trauma in the same experience.

I'm assuming you were being sarcastic with that comment. Sorry if I read that wrong.

@PaintTheAir‌ yeah, no. I wasn't being sarcastic. By the time I'd left, just for IV tries and routine blood draws (because couldn't those either) was over 30 times.

Not sure where I tried to negate anyone's experience?

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