Consults completed..

J&D2007 · July 2014

I had my 2 phone consults today. My first with Shady Grove regarding their DE shared risk plan. Dr didn't really add much to what I already know. Recommended DE vs OE. Gave me access to the fresh donor bank to have a peek. Only looked for a minute, but only baby pics are shown as most of you already know. Their shared risk plan 1:3 for 6 cycles/money back guarantee is $30,000. My second consult was with RBA for a frozen DE. I talked with Dr.Shap.iro. I really liked him. He talked to me for almost an hour about everything even though I didn't really have or ask any questions! He would love to try OE ivf first. He was very interested in why no one tried an ivf without the use of menopur (he wants bravelle or follistim only) at 600iu. He poo-poo'd the c.crm clinic a bit, which my previous RE did as well. Said they def over inflate their percentages,etc,etc. Anyway, he sees no reason why I shouldn't try another OE ivf. Cost is $20,000. He doesn't want to do any genetic testing on our embryos but does recommend a freeze all because he thinks my other transfers didn't work because my progesterone was too high and my lining was breaking down around transfer. He recommends dhea only for supplements and thinks that's why my ivf #3 got a beautiful and normal embryo. If we don't want to, he suggests the FEA plan for frozen DE. He says the donor pool should be getting a lot more people in it over the next few months. Basically, I really liked him and I LOVE LOVE the idea of using OE for another ivf, but financially after that we would not be able to then afford the FEA($28,000). I am so confused on what to do now. I know DH will NOT go for OE ivf, but my heart really wants that. Any advice would be greatly accepted.

RunCC37 · July 2014

Oh, that's a lot of options to take in all at one time! I hate that money is such a big part of the decision making process. I hope you & your DH can take some time to digest it all and come up with a plan you feel confident with.

hmz819 · July 2014

Sounds like the consults went well. What are your DH's reasons for not wanting to try OE again? What's the FEA at RBA? Is that the refund option? I echo run...I hate money plays apart in all these decisions. It sucks so much!

J&D2007 · July 2014

hmz819 said:

Sounds like the consults went well. What are your DH's reasons for not wanting to try OE again? What's the FEA at RBA? Is that the refund option? I echo run...I hate money plays apart in all these decisions. It sucks so much!

DH basically thinks all the hormones and injections are going to kill me eventually. And doesn't see the point on repeating the same thing over and over after we keep getting the same results. And, yes, the plan at rba is a live birth guarantee program where you are refunded if no live birth.

kflynn81 · July 2014

Warning... very lengthy post, LOL

I was in your shoes pretty exactly last year. I did a round a Clomid (no response), 2 IUI cycles with Menopur, and 4 IVF cycles(1 cancelled and 3 completed) with my first RE at a major medical hospital in Chicago all BFN. She started telling me I needed to go the DE route but before making that decision I got lots of second opinions and doing some research online. I had a phone consult with SIRM and they were awesome!!! That RE (Dr. Dayal) basically told me what I had read about online that if you have certain conditions like PCOS perhaps where your LH is elevated then medications such as Menopur only adds to the already elevated levels and studies have shown that elevated LH levels can harm the egg quality. She was the first one to tell me to get rid of the Menopur completely!!! Everything she told me made sense but she was in St. Louis and that would be a bit much for DH and I to make those trips. CCRM , I was underwhelmed with. They seemed more to favor DE than OE. Then I met an RE locally with top 5 stats ratings and had personal IRL reviews about how great he was. He was 2 hours late, didn't read my chart, then told me I only had 1 cycle left for my insurance and he didn't want to waste it on my OE and recommended DE. When I told him that I didn't have a cap (we have a rockin' insurance plan) he changed his tune and suddenly my OE were just fine. I felt like a cash cow and ended up crying on my way home. My 2nd local RE is my current one....he had the same plan basically as SIRM and got rid of the Menopur. You can see from my cycles that I've posted below that it made the world of difference. Not only was it my first cycle to freeze anything but it was from that first FET that I got my Jack Its worth looking into....hope this helps, PM me if you have questions

Here's what my IVF cycles looked like with RE#1 vs. RE #2:

IVF #1 (Menopur 150iu/Follistim 75iu/& Ganirelix starting day 5) cancelled due to adverse reaction to Ganirelix

IVF #1.2 (Menopur 150iu/Follistim 300iu/ 10units Microdose Lupron twice a day) - 19removed, 11 mature, 5 fertilized- Only one made it to an 8cell

IVF #2 (Same protocol as IVF #1.2)- 11removed, 7 mature, 5 fertilized- two became 5 cells and three were only 3 cells- Transferred both 5 cells w/severe fragmentation

IVF #3 (Same protocol as IVF 1.2 & 2) adding Tev Tropin, a HGH in addition to the supplements that began in December. -- 19 Retrieved, 11Mature 8 Fertilized-- Transferred (2) 8cell A- , AH embryos with minimal frag. Other 6 left to culture. One grew to blast but poor quality not able to freeze and other 5 stopped completely

New RE....

IVF #4 ----525iu Follistim and 5units low dose hcg. but also adding baby aspirin in too. ER--45 retrieved, 31 mature, and 26 fertilized!!!! ET-- 2 perfect expanded blasts and froze 7 pretty blasts.

J&D2007 · July 2014

Kflynn, thank you so very much for taking the time to tell me all of that! That is extremely impressive and it gives me hope. I am extremely confused about what to do next, but you are definitely helping me. I will think on this awhile and I may have more questions..

chucktgirl · July 2014

How exciting! I love the new input! It is tough to make any choices, but it seems your heart is so set on OE. It's hard to betray yourself. I've gone that route and been miserable. Maybe a third party (counselor, doctor) could help you convince your DH to try OE again. I totally understand his feeling about the meds (I'm also certain that I've irrevocably affected my body in some way) but a baby is the trade off. My advice is to just look at the next step, not the whole future. I thought for certain that my baby quest was over. Since then, I had a natural pg (for a while) and am now PUPO. Don't say this is your last attempt or option. Say it is your next one. It really helped my outlook, and I realized I really don't know my future as much as I thought I did! Good luck, J&D, you're in my thoughts!

Mrs.McIrish · July 2014

I don't know that what I'm about to write will help you but it's a different perspective. First off, glad you liked Dr. S. Obviously I have affection for him since he's the only one out of 6 REs who a managed to get me to be 18 weeks along. But that's immaterial.

I do agree with no menopur should not be used if you have higher LH. I definitely have a high starting LH along with my high FSH and Dr Check said no menopur. IVF 4 with straight follistim was my best cycle --meaning we had 3 eggs and 3 to transfer (but they were still crappy 4-5 cells/highly fragmented). Of course one of my twins was also a crappy 4 cells "C" on day 3 so you never know. Anyway, it was exactly 2 years ago that I did my last OE cycle. The RE said we could keep trying or not... Up to me. Like Kflynn, we still had ridiculous insurance with no preapproval needed and no one cared about my high FSH. It "only" cost us about $2K per IVF with travel to NJ. But I couldn't do it anymore. I was done. Getting 1-3 eggs at almost 39 seemed like a needle in a haystack. I became more afraid that if someone did stick, what was the chance they'd be healthy? I wondered if I was being "protected" from a worst fate than not getting pregnant. I can tell that you aren't ready to give up on OEs. Maybe I wouldn't have been either if I was 35. I hate that it comes down to $ for you because I "know" you would try again with OEs. Not even a question. All I want to say is that I don't view DE as a consolation prize. I hate that some view it that way. I simply don't care about the bio aspect of it. But I know it's not that simple for others.

Just an FYI, you don't have to do the FEA. You could do one more OE and then the $18K RBA 2 high quality embryo program.. We spent more than we needed to with the FEA. I don't think you are ready to move on to DE just yet. I know you want a baby "now" but you have time for DE if you need to do OE again and then save more $. I'm sorry this is a tough decision.

J&D2007 · July 2014

"I "know" you would try again with OEs. Not even a question. All I want to say is that I don't view DE as a consolation prize. I hate that some view it that way. I simply don't care about the bio aspect of it. But I know it's not that simple for others. " @mrsmcirish, I really hope I didn't offend you or anyone else who chose DE. I guess I do sort of view it as a consolation prize in a way though if I'm being honest with myself. It's always a 'second best option'. I can't say I'm excited about it, I wish I could be more like you and not care about the bio aspect of it, but I'm not there yet. Once I make the decision, I think I may be able to get to that. If I had insurance coverage, there wouldn't be any thought at all. I'd do OE. I just don't want to be dumb about all of this and put us in the poor house doing 10 Ivfs without hope of any success. I want to be logical and do the 'right' thing for us. I don't WANT to follow my heart, I want to follow the next logical steps. If we were only getting a few eggs or had an actual 'problem' that we knew of, it would make the next step easier. I cannot spend another $50,000 and feel good about my decision to do so. I cannot go to DE and feel good about my decision either. Ugh.

J&D2007 · July 2014

chucktgirl said:

How exciting! I love the new input! It is tough to make any choices, but it seems your heart is so set on OE. It's hard to betray yourself. I've gone that route and been miserable. Maybe a third party (counselor, doctor) could help you convince your DH to try OE again. I totally understand his feeling about the meds (I'm also certain that I've irrevocably affected my body in some way) but a baby is the trade off. My advice is to just look at the next step, not the whole future. I thought for certain that my baby quest was over. Since then, I had a natural pg (for a while) and am now PUPO. Don't say this is your last attempt or option. Say it is your next one. It really helped my outlook, and I realized I really don't know my future as much as I thought I did! Good luck, J&D, you're in my thoughts!

Congrats on being pupo:-). And thanks for the advice. I am such a planner that it's tough to look at this one step at a time. I feel like I've made soooo many bad decisions where this IF is concerned. I didn't research any RE clinics before I started, I didnt look into any shared risk programs that would have saved us a ton of money, I followed protocols blindly without question, I went to c.crm which I highly regret.. I could go on and on about my poor decisions and I feel so guilty wasting so much money and I feel very selfish about wanting to do OE again. I feel like I'm quitting or I failed and I cannot stand that feeling. I am so at a loss right now.. Your advice certainly helps and I thank you.

RunCC37 · July 2014

J&D2007 said:
"I "know" you would try again with OEs. Not even a question. All I want to say is that I don't view DE as a consolation prize. I hate that some view it that way. I simply don't care about the bio aspect of it. But I know it's not that simple for others. "
@mrsmcirish, I really hope I didn't offend you or anyone else who chose DE. I guess I do sort of view it as a consolation prize in a way though if I'm being honest with myself. It's always a 'second best option'. I can't say I'm excited about it, I wish I could be more like you and not care about the bio aspect of it, but I'm not there yet. Once I make the decision, I think I may be able to get to that. If I had insurance coverage, there wouldn't be any thought at all. I'd do OE. I just don't want to be dumb about all of this and put us in the poor house doing 10 Ivfs without hope of any success. I want to be logical and do the 'right' thing for us. I don't WANT to follow my heart, I want to follow the next logical steps. If we were only getting a few eggs or had an actual 'problem' that we knew of, it would make the next step easier. I cannot spend another $50,000 and feel good about my decision to do so. I cannot go to DE and feel good about my decision either. Ugh.

Big, huge hugs for you. We are just getting started with the DEgg process, and I want to tell you that what you are going through right now is incredibly hard. Like you, I once felt like DEgg was all wrong for me. Not that it isn't a wonderful opportunity, but I had to go through a grieving process before I felt ready. Eventually, the idea didn't make me feel overwhelmed and I learned to tolerate it. Then somehow I found myself feeling genuinely excited and hopeful about the possibility. But like you said, it IS a second choice. I can't imagine that there is anyone out there who would choose to go this route if their eggs weren't called into question. But I do feel it is important to hash out all of your emotions before pursuing the path. When I think that there is a possibility of a real, live child at the end... I feel such a huge responsibility to do what is best for the hopeful child. I want to go into this with an open heart so that I can honestly tell my hopeful child someday the beautiful story of how he/she came to be. But let me tell you.... It was a painful process to get to this point. Time needed to pass. Unfortunately, there's no express lane. I'm sending more hugs your way

Grateful&Thankful · July 2014

***PAIF warning****

I'm happy to hear your consults went well. It's definitely refreshing to hear what other medical professionals have to say.

I have no advice. I know it's an incredibly hard decision. I just wanted to touch on the menopur issue a bit. My first clinic told me I would never grow any follicles without menopur. They said it was absolutely needed in my protocol. At that clinic, I cycled with 150 menopur(then upped to 225 menopur) & 300 menopur on cycle 2. My first cycle I had nothing to transfer. On the cycle with the 300 menopur, I produced the most mature eggs but my embryo quality was horrible. I did get pregnant but m/c'd. I had a SCH, but my RE felt that was my body's way of rejecting an embryo that was probably chromosomally abnormal. They would not budge on protocol. I went to S.I.R.M. What a difference! After trying their "famous" agonist/antag conversion protocol, I got one really good looking embryo. It gave me hope but I still felt like the protocol could be tweaked. Now here's where the difference comes in: they actually listened to me & took my concerns into consideration. They worked with me & they were open to trying different meds. From the get-go they would not go above 1 vial or 1/2 vial of menopur, they were pretty firm about that but they did let me get rid of the ganirellix & try LLP. With that 1st cycle with them, I saw that the prior huge amounts of menopur did nothing for me. I also have a maturation issue so I knew I was never going to get a lot of eggs. I cycled with them a few more times and ended up doing long lupron which most DOR girls don't do well with. I never went above 1/2 a vial of menopur & got pretty good results (considering my issues). I continued on a high dose of gonal (between 525 & 600). So I say all this to say; drastically reducing the menopur helped my egg quality. I wish you the best of luck!

hmz819 · July 2014

J&D2007 said:

chucktgirl said:

Congrats on being pupo:-). And thanks for the advice. I am such a planner that it's tough to look at this one step at a time. I feel like I've made soooo many bad decisions where this IF is concerned. I didn't research any RE clinics before I started, I didnt look into any shared risk programs that would have saved us a ton of money, I followed protocols blindly without question, I went to c.crm which I highly regret.. I could go on and on about my poor decisions and I feel so guilty wasting so much money and I feel very selfish about wanting to do OE again. I feel like I'm quitting or I failed and I cannot stand that feeling. I am so at a loss right now.. Your advice certainly helps and I thank you.

I could have wrote this same thing. I feel like I have made all the wrong decisions in my journey as well. I hate that money dictates our choices. It is not fair.

LeggyJeggy · July 2014

That's good that your consults went well, but I'm sorry they've made things more complicated. All I know is that with myself with my last cycle, I wasn't thinking it was my last OE cycle. I thought I would have at least one more, especially since I hate that protocol (EPP) and now know for sure after 2 cycles that I do terrible with it. I couldn't have that be my last cycle. Had it been a MDLF again, then I would be fine moving on to DE. But it wasn't, so I tried to accept that and tried to start the DE process. However, I too have excellent insurance and now here we are about to start our next cycle with my OE for one final time. I'm nervous as all heck. My anxiety last week started up again due to this and stress at work. It now kinda feels worse knowing this is my last OE cycle. But personally, I felt like if I don't try once more then I would regret it forever. If we didn't have this insurance though, then we would be doing DE and I'd be pursuing therapy a lot harder. Like McIrish said, with DE, you can always wait longer and save up money if needed. I hope you and your H are able to make a decision you can be happy with together. ((hugs))

J&D2007 · July 2014

LeggyJeggy said:

That's good that your consults went well, but I'm sorry they've made things more complicated. All I know is that with myself with my last cycle, I wasn't thinking it was my last OE cycle. I thought I would have at least one more, especially since I hate that protocol (EPP) and now know for sure after 2 cycles that I do terrible with it. I couldn't have that be my last cycle. Had it been a MDLF again, then I would be fine moving on to DE. But it wasn't, so I tried to accept that and tried to start the DE process. However, I too have excellent insurance and now here we are about to start our next cycle with my OE for one final time. I'm nervous as all heck. My anxiety last week started up again due to this and stress at work. It now kinda feels worse knowing this is my last OE cycle. But personally, I felt like if I don't try once more then I would regret it forever. If we didn't have this insurance though, then we would be doing DE and I'd be pursuing therapy a lot harder. Like McIrish said, with DE, you can always wait longer and save up money if needed. I hope you and your H are able to make a decision you can be happy with together. ((hugs))

Thank you a for your help and input. I am very jealous of you insurance ladies! I couldn't imagine having that as a covered option for me. You are truly blessed for having that option. Good luck on your upcoming cycle!!

Consults completed..

Re: Consults completed..

NTNP 2009-2012 TTC since 2012:

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