Seriously?!

juliagulia38 · June 2014

@TShea721‌, so your saying if I spark my kid at home and he goes to school and tells his teacher I spanked him for misbehaving, the teacher will call CPS? Because that's crazy to me. Also obviously abuse means different things to different people. It's an opinion.

northport6 · June 2014

JaxxM said:

northport6 said:

leahraewku said:

One of my (many) problems with spanking is where is the line drawn between corporal punishment and child abuse? Does the instrument matter? Hands are ok, but belts, paddles, and switches are not? Is it ok to hit as long as you don't leave welts or bruises? Reasonable force is a subjective concept. Why risk opening yourself up to legal scrutiny, when there are perfectly good, non-violent alternative forms of discipline?

This this this.

this this this is the problem.... lol i wish i grew up in the 50's where children actually behaved, listened and respected their parents. hahahhahahahahahha

I will be a spanker if my child gets out of line. But really it does depend on the child, some laugh when you spank... some are actually affected by it.

But again i ask...... why does anyones parenting styles matter to you?

I dunno, I guess because spanking is a form of violence to me. And children got the sh*t beat out of them in the 50s, when things were definitely more of a private matter. My mom was a perfect angel at school and at the stores because her father shouted her down and slapped her around at home.

People's parenting styles don't just affect their children, because their children interact with other kids and whatever they experience at home comes out in their interactions with others. So in that way it sure does affect me.

And that's the last I'm going to say to you, because you were a joke when you were around on a regular basis and the joke wasn't funny then.

grannyweatherwax · June 2014

ColeRose said:

I'm leaving work right now which is probably a good thing because I am getting really pissed off and upset over this thread. And honestly, the images of a child being spanked in general is really bothering me.

I want to clarify that while I see the differences legally between abuse/hitting and spanking, I think they all fucking suck. As someone who was raised in a home with spanking, it fuckinig sucks. As a child who was taught to fear your parent(s), I can tell you that it fucking sucks. So if you want your child in 33 years to be writing on an internet message board about how much it sucks to be spanked and how traumatizing it was as a child to be spanked and to watch your sister spanked until she pissed all over the floor, then by all means, continue what you are doing.

I should pack my bags and move to Delaware where they have made spanking illegal. Thank fucking god.

I will give you all the hugs now. I am sorry

juliagulia38 · June 2014

I was also spanked as a child and feared my parents. I think there is a "healthy" fear. I didn't want to disappoint my parents and get spanked so I behaved vs. I don't want to go home because I'm scared my dad will hit my across the face. I want my children to respect, obey and behave so I decide to discipline the way I do. I'm obviously not going to change any ones mind here and I hope all y'all don't think I'm crazy now.

juliagulia38 · June 2014

@ColeRose‌, I am sorry you had to go through that. >:D< Creepy Internet hugs.

golfingdarwinfish · June 2014

I've read "discipline vs. abuse" multiple times in this thread; people seem to forget the subjective nature of these words.

There are children with broken bones, bruises and welts in the name of "discipline". The person inflicting that "discipline" saw it as exactly that and wouldn't categorize their behavior as abuse. We can talk until we are blue in the face about how you are different, and how you would never do that, etc., etc., but while it happens, there will be a need to differentiate between the two and understand how a person defines both terms, especially if they are placing their hands on their child with the intent to inflict pain to teach a lesson or get a desired outcome.

If you choose to lay a hand on your child in the name of "discipline" you have something in common that person - you are raising your hand to your child and applying it, with force, to a part of their body in order to reach a desired outcome.

Once you have that action in common with someone who fits the aforementioned description, I do think it's important to understand how you define "discipline" and "abuse" and where you draw your lines in the sand. When you already think it's okay to raise a hand to your child, are you more likely to add force over time to further prove your point if the original "spanking" wasn't effective? Are you more likely to get out of hand with it if your child laughs at you?

I think it is important for CPS to make sure parents who truly "discipline" are not actually "abusing". If you choose to raise your hand to your child I have no problem with you having to prove that you do not cross the line into abuse.

Lastly, I think that if you advocate spanking as discipline you should also acknowledge the importance of the subjectiveness of discipline vs. abuse and be willing to prove that your actions do not cross over into the first example.

I have other issues with spanking, but I think it may be harder for people to agree on the moral and long term impact of it, so I think the subjective nature of the two, and how that subjectiveness has led to "discipline" causing the death of children is a better place to actually begin the conversation or try to find common ground.

kittyh8r · June 2014

My home is not an abusive home. That's absolutely ridiculous. We spank when Emma put herself in danger after we instruct her otherwise. She is not scared of us.

I'm perfectly comfortable with our choice. It's not lazy parenting, for us anyways. Carry on

golfingdarwinfish · June 2014

Cashingn2 said:

I hate to say it but I completely disagree with some of the extreme comments for and against spanking in this thread. I absolutely do not believe that someone who pops their child on the bottom is anything close to a person that beats their child until they have bruises, broken bones, welts, etc. I just can't with that. Sorrynotsorry.

That's actually not what I was saying. Both groups believe it's okay to put a hand to their child. It's then important to separate group A (non-abusers) from group B (abusers).

golfingdarwinfish · June 2014

Yez9 said:

@VCGolfNYC‌ well said. The layers involved are myriad. And what should be done if it's a one time thing, as my childhood experience was? Should I have been taken from my home? My parents counseled or monitored? Would CPS consider verbal abuse to be as significant as spanking too hard? The subjective nature of this makes pinning down a set of standards for any type of discipline very difficult.

I agree with the bolded, and I think that's why people become overzealous and passionate about this topic.

juliagulia38 · June 2014

I'm not hitting my child. I'm spanking him on the bottom. There's a difference IMO. I also don't need to discipline an adult. But wherever.

notkateanymore · June 2014

Cashingn2 said:

Also, my Dad always spanked me outside wherever we were or in private because I would scream/cry and disturb others. I don't really think taking the child to the restroom is a problem because I understand that aspect. I liked to exaggerate in public because I wanted everyone to think my Dad was terrible for spanking me. I was manipulative. At home, I laughed as mentioned earlier.

I think it's ridiculous to remove a child from the situation and then still spank them. Why can't you just talk to them about what they did?

golfingdarwinfish · June 2014

Cashingn2 said:

VCGolfNYC said:

Cashingn2 said:

I hate to say it but I completely disagree with some of the extreme comments for and against spanking in this thread. I absolutely do not believe that someone who pops their child on the bottom is anything close to a person that beats their child until they have bruises, broken bones, welts, etc. I just can't with that. Sorrynotsorry.

That's actually not what I was saying. Both groups believe it's okay to put a hand to their child. It's then important to separate group A (non-abusers) from group B (abusers).

Ok, I can get on board with this. I do think so many parents spank their children in anger. That really does bother me. Truthfully, I think if they calmed themselves down before taking action, they'd be more likely to come up with a punishment that does not cause pain to their child. As I don't have a child of an age that discipline is really a concern, I truly don't know what I will do. I have already considered time outs, taking toys, grounding, etc and would prefer to stick with that. I also have a temper and refuse to punish my child because I'm angry. I also think that children are often punished for being children. Plus, in the past, how many spectrum children were punished because parents didn't know about autism? I do have a lot of feels on this. I do agree that there are so many other forms of punishment that work. But what I think works best is setting a good example for our children. Be a good person and they will watch you and see that.

Sorry, I think I did a poor job of explaining what I meant & the distinction in my original post.

The bolded made me cringe. You're so on point there.

DH and I haven't discussed discipline yet; perhaps that will be a fun topic of conversation this evening! I tend to have a temper also so I can sympathize with that and am on the same page as you there. DH is very level headed and I'm glad we are on different wavelengths in that regard.

juliagulia38 · June 2014

KateMW said:

Cashingn2 said:

Also, my Dad always spanked me outside wherever we were or in private because I would scream/cry and disturb others. I don't really think taking the child to the restroom is a problem because I understand that aspect. I liked to exaggerate in public because I wanted everyone to think my Dad was terrible for spanking me. I was manipulative. At home, I laughed as mentioned earlier.

I think it's ridiculous to remove a child from the situation and then still spank them. Why can't you just talk to them about what they did?
--------------------------------------
What if talking doesn't work? What do you do then? Im actually curious not trying to be rude.
Eta: quote fail

notkateanymore · June 2014

EmmaBoBemma said:

My home is not an abusive home. That's absolutely ridiculous. We spank when Emma put herself in danger after we instruct her otherwise. She is not scared of us. I'm perfectly comfortable with our choice. It's not lazy parenting, for us anyways. Carry on

So you spank her bc you were scared she would get hurt...hmmm. I don't think spanking always equals abuse, but that makes zero sense.

Oh and yippee...Jaxx is back.

kittyh8r · June 2014

julie08williams said:

KateMW said:

Cashingn2 said:

Also, my Dad always spanked me outside wherever we were or in private because I would scream/cry and disturb others. I don't really think taking the child to the restroom is a problem because I understand that aspect. I liked to exaggerate in public because I wanted everyone to think my Dad was terrible for spanking me. I was manipulative. At home, I laughed as mentioned earlier.

I think it's ridiculous to remove a child from the situation and then still spank them. Why can't you just talk to them about what they did?

--------------------------------------
What if talking doesn't work? What do you do then? Im actually curious not trying to be rude.
Eta: quote fail

When Emma is in the frame of mind, where she is running toward the road, as we are running behind her yelling, "Emma no, stop!" She is no longer in a place where she can be talked to. I spank her butt on the spot and look at her and tell her how dangerous it is. Then I pick her up and cry because, damn. She could run into a busy road. The reason I keep using this example is because it is burned into my mind the most. This happened the day after reading about red balloons for Ryan.

Every once in a while she will try to break from my hand in a parking lot(very rare) and I will spank her then too.

Again, when she is in this frame of mind, there is no talking to her. Luckily, she is a relatively easy child and rarely puts herself in dangerous situations.

If your child was easy to talk to, god bless their soul, mine is not.

golfingdarwinfish · June 2014

EmmaBoBemma said:

My home is not an abusive home. That's absolutely ridiculous. We spank when Emma put herself in danger after we instruct her otherwise. She is not scared of us. I'm perfectly comfortable with our choice. It's not lazy parenting, for us anyways. Carry on

@emmabobemma

I was in no way inferring that your house is an abusive home. I was saying that there are some people out there (extremely sick people) who do cross the line into abuse while claiming (and maybe honestly believing) they are disciplining their children.

RanFan28 · June 2014

I think what @EmmaBoBemma‌ is trying to say, @KateMW‌, is something equivalent to this: When my little brother and I were kids, we only got spankings when we were putting ourselves in danger. My brother would run into the street because he didn't understand the danger that something could happen. He didn't have abstract thought, no matter how many times my mom told him. So, she would pop him on the butt when he did that. He associated running in the street with the very small amount of pain that he felt, which was far less than, say, being hit by a car.

I think that's what she means. Obviously, she can, and I'm sure she will, speak for herself.

On a different, broader, note. There is so much hurt and judgement and slander in this thread from both sides. I think this is one of the most vile threads I've read on here, and that's saying something.

Eta: Emma already spoke for herself.

KFED103 · June 2014

Stop engaging in dialogue with yourself Herc.

What the fuck is wrong with you two. I use the term "two" loosely

RanFan28 · June 2014

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.

kittyh8r · June 2014

VCGolfNYC said:

EmmaBoBemma said:

My home is not an abusive home. That's absolutely ridiculous. We spank when Emma put herself in danger after we instruct her otherwise. She is not scared of us.

I'm perfectly comfortable with our choice. It's not lazy parenting, for us anyways. Carry on

@emmabobemma

I was in no way inferring that your house is an abusive home. I was saying that there are some people out there (extremely sick people) who do cross the line into abuse while claiming (and maybe honestly believing) they are disciplining their children.

No worries. I was referring to loo's comment that spankig homes are abusive homes. Gag gag gag.

kittyh8r · June 2014

KateMW said:

EmmaBoBemma said:

My home is not an abusive home. That's absolutely ridiculous. We spank when Emma put herself in danger after we instruct her otherwise. She is not scared of us.

I'm perfectly comfortable with our choice. It's not lazy parenting, for us anyways. Carry on

So you spank her bc you were scared she would get hurt...hmmm. I don't think spanking always equals abuse, but that makes zero sense.

Oh and yippee...Jaxx is back.

Absolutely not. I spank her, in that situation, because she needs to know how serious I am about her not running into the road. Because we spank so little, she realizes just how serious I am.

RanFan28 · June 2014

hercules03 said:

RanFan28 said:
@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but THAT comment about ANY kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.
Well for one, I didn't say Loo's kid. I was referencing all those who won't yell or spank because, you know, it is abuse.

Secondly, loo's been up my butt all day - and I'm kind of tired of it.

Okay, well to your first point, I fixed my quote for you.

notkateanymore · June 2014

ColeRose said:

What the actual fuck is wrong with some you?

LOL

notkateanymore · June 2014

hercules03 said:

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.
Well for one, I didn't say Loo's kid. I was referencing all those who won't yell or spank because, you know, it is abuse. Secondly, loo's been up my butt all day - and I'm kind of tired of it.

So you get to be a bitch bc you're tired of somebody? Ok.

notkateanymore · June 2014

EmmaBoBemma said:

EmmaBoBemma said:

My home is not an abusive home. That's absolutely ridiculous. We spank when Emma put herself in danger after we instruct her otherwise. She is not scared of us. I'm perfectly comfortable with our choice. It's not lazy parenting, for us anyways. Carry on

So you spank her bc you were scared she would get hurt...hmmm. I don't think spanking always equals abuse, but that makes zero sense.

Oh and yippee...Jaxx is back.
Absolutely not. I spank her, in that situation, because she needs to know how serious I am about her not running into the road. Because we spank so little, she realizes just how serious I am.

I just can't.

cboink · June 2014

I'm not sure even snickers can help this thread.

notkateanymore · June 2014

RanFan28 said:

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.

And I don't usually like you, so it should come as no surprise that I agree.

notkateanymore · June 2014

JaxxM said:

ColeRose said:

What the actual fuck is wrong with some you?

oh did the making fun of people rule change while i was gone? i must have missed that memo.

Why the hell did you bother to come back? People still think you suck, you don't seem to like anybody here...what reason could you possibly have for wanting to be back?

notkateanymore · June 2014

hercules03 said:

hercules03 said:

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.
Well for one, I didn't say Loo's kid. I was referencing all those who won't yell or spank because, you know, it is abuse. Secondly, loo's been up my butt all day - and I'm kind of tired of it.

So you get to be a bitch bc you're tired of somebody? Ok.
Don't even start, Kate. You take that cake. Big time.

I love cake. Thanks!

cboink · June 2014

JaxxM said:

cboyington said:
I'm not sure even snickers can help this thread.
Tmi but I haven't even started my pp period. Its due. Ugh. Maybe that will take away my snark....

Nor have I.
And it probably won't help you.

.
Welcome back

notkateanymore · June 2014

hercules03 said:

hercules03 said:

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.
Well for one, I didn't say Loo's kid. I was referencing all those who won't yell or spank because, you know, it is abuse. Secondly, loo's been up my butt all day - and I'm kind of tired of it.

So you get to be a bitch bc you're tired of somebody? Ok.
If anyone else was calling someone a bitch on the bump - the bump police would be all over it. Prejudice against us poor people and cloth interiors.

Then report me.

RanFan28 · June 2014

KateMW said:

RanFan28 said:

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.

And I don't usually like you, so it should come as no surprise that I agree.

I know we don't agree on a lot of things, but I don't feel like saying you don't like me was necessary. I thought we'd always been pretty civil.

notkateanymore · June 2014

RanFan28 said:

RanFan28 said:

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.

And I don't usually like you, so it should come as no surprise that I agree.
I know we don't agree on a lot of things, but I don't feel like saying you don't like me was necessary. I thought we'd always been pretty civil.

LOL I was talking about Herc.

leahraewku · June 2014

Well, fuck. No one can say today has been boring.

ETA: Am I not supposed to be cussing anymore? Whatever came of that?

notkateanymore · June 2014

You know what Herc...I even like you half the time lately, but you remind me so much of my daughter when she shows off for her friends. You only start acting like an ass when you have an audience.

notkateanymore · June 2014

hercules03 said:

JaxxM said:

ColeRose said:

What the actual fuck is wrong with some you?

oh did the making fun of people rule change while i was gone? i must have missed that memo.

Why the hell did you bother to come back? People still think you suck, you don't seem to like anybody here...what reason could you possibly have for wanting to be back?
People think you suck, too! That doesn't keep people from coming around.

You don't count.

RanFan28 · June 2014

KateMW said:

RanFan28 said:

KateMW said:

RanFan28 said:

@hercules03‌ I usually like you, but the comment about Loos kid in the street crossed the line. Big time. Not cool.

And I don't usually like you, so it should come as no surprise that I agree.
I know we don't agree on a lot of things, but I don't feel like saying you don't like me was necessary. I thought we'd always been pretty civil.

LOL I was talking about Herc.

Reading comprehension fail. Sorry. This thread has me stabby.

northport6 · June 2014

Stop. Right now, everyone is deeply, deeply wrong. Just stop.

notkateanymore · June 2014

hercules03 said:

Stay classy with the name calling, Kate. I expect nothing more from you.

Thanks! I just call them like I see them.

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