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The cult of natural childbirth

atrinh11atrinh11 member
edited June 2014 in January 2015 Moms

Sorry if this was already posted, but I didn't see it yet. I know we have already had plenty of fun debate on natural childbirth, so I thought this might add to the discussion. This article also touches on the medical and insurance systems from some other debates.

FWIW, I have zero shame that I had an epidural with my son. I will have one again.

https://m.theweek.com/article/index/263443/the-cult-of-natural-childbirth-has-gone-too-far

Thoughts?

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Re: The cult of natural childbirth

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  • aerotigergirlaerotigergirl member
    I definitely think that reality TV has gone too far, in a number of ways. Wasn't there a show once called "I Want To Marry a Millionaire?" 

    But I wouldn't call advocates of "natural childbirth" a "cult." I don't know the actual numbers, but I'd be willing to venture a guess that most women (in the US, at least) are birthing in hospitals, and most women (in the US, at least) are birthing with pain management. If there are women who prefer to do it differently, the majority certainly shouldn't be threatened by that, I wouldn't think.

    I believe that women should have choices in how they deliver babies, and that each mom and family should be able to choose the birthing method/location that is right for them. 
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  • atrinh11atrinh11 member
    ICarriedAWatermelon said:
    I saw this article, and I interpreted it to mean that the "cult" they describe is the phenomenon that some women electing for epidurals (or whatever) are looked down on as "less of a woman/mother", etc. Just another extension of the mommy wars... WOHM/SAHM, breast/bottle feeding, etc. The comment from Mila Kunis hit me hard. Nothing she said was outright offensive, but had subtle undertones of disdain for anything "not natural."

    I agree about the Mila Kunis statement. I like her, she is just goofy and doesn't seem to care what people thing, which I enjoy. That statement bothered me though. Just because I got pregnant willingly, I need to forego any form of medical assistance. Not cool.
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    Childbirth has been colonized by men, so I think getting to a place where women can feel empowered to make their own choices and not use fear/shame as a weapon against each other in the process will come in time. The 'natural birth' movement, however militant and judgy it may seem at times, is a pushback on modern patriarchal authority over the children, family, and routine medical management of childbirth. More choices, more knowledge, and more access is the right direction.
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    Women who have natural births do not get treated with more respect. They often are met with blatant hostility from the medical establishment. I speak from my own experience and that of many others. When you are treated like you are not the authority of your body, you have to empower yourself in other ways, including celebrating the fact that you achieved the outcome you wanted against whatever stood in your way.
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  • LadyXaverianLadyXaverian member
    Stargirlb said:
    Childbirth has been colonized by men, so I think getting to a place where women can feel empowered to make their own choices and not use fear/shame as a weapon against each other in the process will come in time. The 'natural birth' movement, however militant and judgy it may seem at times, is a pushback on modern patriarchal authority over the children, family, and routine medical management of childbirth. More choices, more knowledge, and more access is the right direction.
    The feminist view is absolutely about more choices, knowledge, and access. One of those perfectly legitimate choices that should not be viewed with judgement is one that includes pain management. Or even *gasp* elective surgery. This should also include non-medicated birth at a birthing center or at home, if that is what one desires.

    I'm not saying that you're arguing against these things, @stargirlb . I'm just pointing out that some people welcome and are thankful for "routine medical management of childbirth". And there's nothing wrong with that.
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    Sure, but discussions about it are still important.
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  • aerotigergirlaerotigergirl member
    @ICarriedAWatermelon - I agree. I have definitely met women who seem to look down their noses at other moms who chose a different path, and I can see where it might be described as "cult-like." 

    Ultimately, I agree exactly with what @LadyXaverian and @Stargirlb said (because I think they may actually be on the same page). I think that giving women more education and information about what their options are is the most important thing we can do. And then, as women, we all should be able to give each other the freedom to choose what works best for us individually without using your birth experience as yet another pedestal to stand upon. 
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    You should join some natural birth groups and listen to the stories.

    My own OB did it subtly. I told him (1st preg,) I wanted to do it without any drugs, and on all 4s. He chuckled and assured me I would change my mind when I was in birth, and that women "should stop trying to be heroes, a healthy baby is all that matters." That he completely disregarded ME and the fact that this was MY body. I am not just a vessel for an infant, and that suggestion really infuriated me, and made a deep impression. I see women do this to each other as well, focusing on the baby, beyond the fact that it's an intensely personal experience for a woman to give birth. It's her body first.
    When I joined natural birth groups I heard versions of this story over and over and over. Women who have homebirth a rarely do so with their first child, and many do have stories about their prior medical experience with birth that pushed them to explore other options. Many stories are far worse than a doctor just brushing aside their birth plan. It doesn't mean that those doctors are villains, just that the way the system is designed does not respect the inherent sovereignty of the woman. Some call their experiences Birth Rape. I really do implore that you take the time to listen to those who chose to leave the system and find out their reasons for doing so.
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  • LadyXaverianLadyXaverian member
    Stargirlb said:
    Sure, but discussions about it are still important.
    I've never had this discussion with anyone who felt strongly about non-medicated birth that didn't have an air of superiority and "you're doing it wrong". I think that's why the idea of the "cult" (which is absolutely silly, IMO) and/or a back lash is happening. I planned for a non-medicated hypnobirth with DD. I ended up with a c-section. The "there-theres" (I have zero regrets) and implications that I ended up with an "unnecessarian" (it wasn't- I am confident) from my natural birth advocate friends was just sickening. 

    I recognize that my personal experiences are fogging my view, though.

    All this to say that ultimately I agree with your original statement: Do what thou wilt.


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  • CinemaGoddessCinemaGoddess member
    Stargirlb said:
    You should join some natural birth groups and listen to the stories. My own OB did it subtly. I told him (1st preg,) I wanted to do it without any drugs, and on all 4s. He chuckled and assured me I would change my mind when I was in birth, and that women "should stop trying to be heroes, a healthy baby is all that matters." That he completely disregarded ME and the fact that this was MY body. I am not just a vessel for an infant, and that suggestion really infuriated me, and made a deep impression. I see women do this to each other as well, focusing on the baby, beyond the fact that it's an intensely personal experience for a woman to give birth. It's her body first. When I joined natural birth groups I heard versions of this story over and over and over. Women who have homebirth a rarely do so with their first child, and many do have stories about their prior medical experience with birth that pushed them to explore other options. Many stories are far worse than a doctor just brushing aside their birth plan. It doesn't mean that those doctors are villains, just that the way the system is designed does not respect the inherent sovereignty of the woman. Some call their experiences Birth Rape. I really do implore that you take the time to listen to those who chose to leave the system and find out their reasons for doing so.
    But then your doctor is an asshole. 

    That doesn't mean that natural births are maligned across the country.  


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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    Some look at porn stars and think "wow how degrading!" Without considering the agency of the woman, and the fact that just because you would feel dirty/degraded/hurt in that line of work does not mean someone else cannot feel totally empowered by their choice.

    Sometimes when you have been harmed or felt disempowered by something in the past (sexuality, in my example,) you can project that on others. I think this applies to birth choices as well. It's a complex and highly individual thing.
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  • aerotigergirlaerotigergirl member
    CinemaGoddess said:
    Stargirlb said:
    You should join some natural birth groups and listen to the stories. My own OB did it subtly. I told him (1st preg,) I wanted to do it without any drugs, and on all 4s. He chuckled and assured me I would change my mind when I was in birth, and that women "should stop trying to be heroes, a healthy baby is all that matters." That he completely disregarded ME and the fact that this was MY body. I am not just a vessel for an infant, and that suggestion really infuriated me, and made a deep impression. I see women do this to each other as well, focusing on the baby, beyond the fact that it's an intensely personal experience for a woman to give birth. It's her body first. When I joined natural birth groups I heard versions of this story over and over and over. Women who have homebirth a rarely do so with their first child, and many do have stories about their prior medical experience with birth that pushed them to explore other options. Many stories are far worse than a doctor just brushing aside their birth plan. It doesn't mean that those doctors are villains, just that the way the system is designed does not respect the inherent sovereignty of the woman. Some call their experiences Birth Rape. I really do implore that you take the time to listen to those who chose to leave the system and find out their reasons for doing so.
    But then your doctor is an asshole. 

    That doesn't mean that natural births are maligned across the country.  


    Exactly. I planned an unmedicated hospital birth with DS, and had the full support of my team of midwives and everyone I met at the hospital on delivery day. Everyone on my team respected our wishes and didn't offer pain management or try to dictate what positions we could use, etc. After only 10 hours of labor (which I realize was short, and for that I am thankful), when I was fully dilated and ready to push, the midwife discovered that my son was frank breech, and our plans needed to change. 

    Now, it could certainly be argued that we shouldn't have been backed into a c-section by default simply because there was only one doctor in town who would attend a vaginal breech delivery (and even then, he may have refused our case since I was a first-time mom with a butt-first baby and we had never even met him and I was at the point of pushing). I agree that vaginal breech deliveries should be more available as an option. 

    But the point that I'm trying to make is that, up until that point, everyone on our team was behind us 100%. I never got the treatment that you did, @Stargirlb, and I'm very thankful for that. I wonder if, in more rural areas for example, the access to different options simply isn't there? 
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    I am not in a rural area. He was an OB that all my friends where just fine with.

    And I have a great team of midwives so I am well aware the entire medical profession is not working to personally undermine women.

    I'm glad your experience was positive!
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    edited June 2014
    thompnia said:

    I'm sorry, but I am probably turning this into more of an UO thread or fffc thread with this comment. I have read several 'birth rape' stories that were utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately it was a few years ago, so I remember few specifics.

    One woman claimed 'birth rape' because after she agreed to an emergency c section, her husband was no longer allowed in the room. Her husband wasn't in the room because she had general anesthesia (which was another issue, it wasn't calm enough.)

    She had a prolapsed cord. In the OB department I worked in, that earned you a ride to the OR with a doctor or resident's hand in your vagina holding your baby's head off of the cord so he wouldn't die. Literally. Then you are quickly knocked out so the surgery can begin. Nothing calm about that and no way for us to babysit a husband through a scary time like that. Seconds matter. I've been in rooms where from time of prolapse to time of birth was less than ten minutes.

    Was her experience traumatic? I'm sure of it and I'm sorry she had to go through that. Is it fair to say that the healthcare providers that saved both her and her baby's lives 'raped' her? NO WAY!

    To compare that experience with a woman being truly raped sickens me. I am sure there are women out there with unjustifiably bad birthing experiences, but I still won't call them rape.

    I'm sure every one of us could pull out some stupid story we read online. Don't paint everyone with the same brush.

    I've been raped and it doesn't "sicken" me to read an experience where a woman calls what happened to her during childbirth rape. The psychology is one of being dominated and forced into submission, not necessarily violently, subtle tactics can be used to force compliance, and completely violated. That shit happens and it's completely fucking awful. I hope it never happens to you or anyone you know.

    It's like when I'm on a thread discussing rape and some dudebro comes in to tell a story about the time he was falsely accused of rape and therefore he thinks the discussion is bullshit. Go home.

    #notalldoctors

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  • AlfiesMOMAlfiesMOM member
    LadyXaverian said:
    I do not care how or where others choose to give birth, and I'll raise my eyebrow at anyone who cares about how and where I choose to do the same.
    This 100%! I won't judge you if you don't judge me! Giving birth is hard and however you choose to do it as long as you are making safe decisions for yourself and the baby, I am cool with!
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    Who is the judge of what is a safe birth decision?
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  • alibc123alibc123 member

    Just the thoughts of going natural without drugs makes me cringe in pain. I do not deal well with pain so I already know I will be getting drugs! More power to you if you can do it drug free.

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  • AlfiesMOMAlfiesMOM member
    Stargirlb said:
    Who is the judge of what is a safe birth decision?
    You are in a feisty mood. Something with such non-malice intentions being turned into a discussion...

    But since you asked I would hope we all can judge what is safe and what is not safe but the intention of my statement was in what I would consider its most basic form. I would say if you are having a home birth and something is going wrong (either with you or the baby) you made the decision to seek medical help. I would judge someone who's child died of medical complications which could of been avoided had they had the proper medical attention. 
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  • jennyhattjennyhatt member
    Can I just say @stargirlb I SO enjoy the discussions and arguments you bring to the table. I could seriously lurk your convos all day! Lol

    There is also no medal for child birth. How you choose to do it is your choice. Whatever you have to do to get that baby out safely and healthy- that in the end is what matters.
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    Ohhh I'm sure I've got way more goodies to come.... ;)
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  • MaebbMaebb member
    I got an epidural with DS and will do it again if I can. I agree that people should be able to make their own choices about birth and not be made to feel lesser for it as long as it's safe for mom and baby.

    I gave birth in a hospital and never felt pressured to go against any of my birth plan wishes.
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  • thompniathompnia member
    Stargirlb said:

    thompnia said:

    I'm sorry, but I am probably turning this into more of an UO thread or fffc thread with this comment. I have read several 'birth rape' stories that were utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately it was a few years ago, so I remember few specifics.

    One woman claimed 'birth rape' because after she agreed to an emergency c section, her husband was no longer allowed in the room. Her husband wasn't in the room because she had general anesthesia (which was another issue, it wasn't calm enough.)

    She had a prolapsed cord. In the OB department I worked in, that earned you a ride to the OR with a doctor or resident's hand in your vagina holding your baby's head off of the cord so he wouldn't die. Literally. Then you are quickly knocked out so the surgery can begin. Nothing calm about that and no way for us to babysit a husband through a scary time like that. Seconds matter. I've been in rooms where from time of prolapse to time of birth was less than ten minutes.

    Was her experience traumatic? I'm sure of it and I'm sorry she had to go through that. Is it fair to say that the healthcare providers that saved both her and her baby's lives 'raped' her? NO WAY!

    To compare that experience with a woman being truly raped sickens me. I am sure there are women out there with unjustifiably bad birthing experiences, but I still won't call them rape.

    I'm sure every one of us could pull out some stupid story we read online. Don't paint everyone with the same brush.

    I've been raped and it doesn't "sicken" me to read an experience where a woman calls what happened to her during childbirth rape. The psychology is one of being dominated and forced into submission, not necessarily violently, subtle tactics can be used to force compliance, and completely violated. That shit happens and it's completely fucking awful. I hope it never happens to you or anyone you know.

    It's like when I'm on a thread discussing rape and some dudebro comes in to tell a story about the time he was falsely accused of rape and therefore he thinks the discussion is bullshit. Go home.

    #notalldoctors

    I have also been raped, and it sickens me. Maybe you shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush.

    My point is that every story I read was an unfortunate situation, but necessary for health. These women did not talk to their doctors after the fact about the situation (assuming here based on the fact that none of them claimed to have any level of understanding about what happened after the fact compared to during.)

    These women were not raped; they were saved. And none of the ones I read were 'dominated' or 'forced into submission.'. They were counselled and agreed to do what was best for them and their babies, and cried rape after.

    I won't say such a thing never happens, but it can be a buzzword and is overused. Just because your birth plan wasn't followed doesn't mean you were raped.
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    The term applied to the most extreme birth trauma experiences is "birth rape" not "my doctor raped me" or even "I was Raped" which have very different implications.
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  • thompniathompnia member
    @Stargirlb‌ if you have a link to stories that are birth rape I would like to see them. I was saying that the ones I read were not what I would consider to be out of line. I do not appreciate when people talk about their doctors treating them inappropriately when they agreed to the treatment and didn't ask questions before or after. I don't like the lack of personal responsibility.

    I'm not trying to be snarky here. I really want to know. I feel sorry for what happened to these women. I just dont like the way they portray it.
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  • StargirlbStargirlb member
    Most of what I have read has been shared in groups, but this seems like a place to start: https://birthraped.wordpress.com/
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  • CbeanzCbeanz member
    When I opted for natural childbirth, I got a lot of crap from family, coworkers, and even the OBs in my practice.  I got a lot of, "Why are you trying to be a hero?"  And "What if [XYZ rare complication] arises?  Will you try to be a hero then?"

    Well my question is, "Why WOULDN'T you try to be the hero in your childbirth story?"  Why turn the anesthesiologist into some kind of savior?

    My childbirth experience was a life-changing, pinnacle moment in my life and I wish more women could experience themselves at their absolute strongest.

    Am I in a cult?  No, but I do think it's a pretty cool club to belong to.
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  • MahriM23MahriM23 member
    I had my first baby epidural free. I am lucky to live near one of the best women's hospitals in the country which happens to have an alternative birthing center right inside, just downstairs from an amazing NICU. That said my labor was still traumatizing for me (36 hours and 3 hrs of pushing out a 9lb 10oz baby will do that sometimes) and although I wish I could do that room (the ABC) again I really hate the thought of going without an epidural, birthing was completely different for me the 2nd and 3rd time (much easier! -with epidural). This was just my experience though, everyone has their own story and their own reasons for doing things. 
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  • CbeanzCbeanz member
    edited June 2014
    In no way was I inferring women who choose anesthesia are weak. My point was: there is a level of strength inside EVERY woman and childbirth is a chance to amaze even ourselves.

    Didn't mean for it to be taken negatively. I'm all about empowering women, never putting them down.
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  • CbeanzCbeanz member
    calindi said:



    Don't you think a woman who chooses an epidural amazes herself? Or do you think she missed out on something? Is a woman who grew a baby in her belly a "hero of her own birth story" even if she chooses an elective repeat cesarean?

    See above, the "hero" comments were sarcasm directed at me for choosing to go natural. But I'm saying BE the hero. Own your birth experience. Don't be ashamed of being the hero.

    Education is the key and I respect informed decisions even if they're different than mine.

    But for crying out loud the number of times I've heard women fawn over their anesthesiologist for saving them... You are the one bearing a child into the world. YOU are doing this.
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  • CbeanzCbeanz member
    Interventions remove different degrees of mother's control. Interventions can lead to the need for more interventions and further loss of control etc.

    And I'm bothered when the focus of a labor/delivery turns from mom to an intervening stranger. It's not empowering, to say the least.
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  • CbeanzCbeanz member
    "Epi made it more enjoyable" is completely different than, "I couldn't have done it without Dr. X's epi."

    Because yes you probably could've.

    (The latter was what I was referring to.)
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  • britb618britb618 member
    @Cbeanz‌ but I actually couldn't have done it without him- emergency c here that saved mine and my daughters life- and I can't stand this topic bc yes everyone who went natural in my circle (esp) one friend loves to state how she is so proud of herself and her body for what she was able to do for her child...well I'm proud that my daughter was born Alive and that I advocated for her birth while throwing up and barely able to move...you think you are advocating for everyone having their own choice but sometimes people don't have a choice and they are just thankful for the doctors and a safe
    Delivery...
    I felt like a failure afterwards bc I missed pushing but I wanted that c section, I kept asking for it and doc said I was right to because the cord was around her neck and poor kid just kept basically bungee jumping into my birth canal trying to drop but unable too, she came out with a cone head despite the c section which is normally not the case...so I know I did what was best and I was thrilled that I was able to tell the dr to keep pushing the drugs so I didn't feel the tugging of the surgery as I was awake- and I didn't! So I found that empowering ...ok end rant
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  • MichaelSC28MichaelSC28 member
    LadyXaverian said:
    I do not care how or where others choose to give birth, and I'll raise my eyebrow at anyone who cares about how and where I choose to do the same.
    I jump on this wagon...to me child birth is child birth...I am not going to judge a woman who request epiderial or not.  I have chosen to a natural birth...now with saying that this is my first...does not mean that it might not change. I think its your choice...who cares about what another chooses it happens to be their choice. Babies healthy leave it alone.
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  • jennyhattjennyhatt member
    @calindi‌ when I said there are no medals I was in no way putting down the decision to go medication free. I went medication free during my daughters birth and I will do it again. But I did not receive a medal for doing so. I'm not sure how that puts down mine or anyone's decision to do so??

    It was my choice and it no way impacts the next woman's choice. My best friend texted me at 4 cm: "how the hell did you do that!? I need an epidural NOW" I told her "do it babe!!"
    Pregnacy, childbirth, motherhood all of it is tough!! If it was easy, men would do it
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  • jennyhattjennyhatt member
    Somehow part of my comment got cut off ? I also said @calindi I agree with you. We must support and empower each other.
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