@amdecker1016 - I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but as a teacher I am highly offended by your statement. No matter how much a child irks me or gets on my nerves I - or any other teacher i know - would NEVER, EVER physically hurt a child and your insinuation makes me sick to my stomach. in my state you have to sign of on the fact that corporal punishment in schools is illegal - forget guns. But your insinuation is disgusting and insulting. We're professionals. Please treat us as such.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me. You made my wedding day complete.
@amdecker1016 - I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but as a teacher I am highly offended by your statement. No matter how much a child irks me or gets on my nerves I - or any other teacher i know - would NEVER, EVER physically hurt a child and your insinuation makes me sick to my stomach. in my state you have to sign of on the fact that corporal punishment in schools is illegal - forget guns. But your insinuation is disgusting and insulting. We're professionals. Please treat us as such.
No i don't mean to say that just because a kid calls you names you will pull a gun. Like snow said it was more along the lines of what if a teacher has a mental breakdown. Did not mean to offend you or @addisonsmom22 i apologize!
Having been trained on what to do in an active shooter scenario it has been shown numerous times that only law enforcement agents who are highly trained can actually withdraw a fire arm, aim, keep steady and shoot with accuracy within a couple of seconds, if they even get that amount of time. Recreational licensed to carry fire arm owners do not have what law enforcement officers have, years of intense training, under pressure.
In this world some tragedies will never be eliminated 100 percent, there are other ways to try and prevent these situations and having people carry to try and protect is a false sense of security.
@amdecker1016... If a teacher has a mental breakdown I would hope they would know how to deal with it and not take it out on the students. Like I said go to the bathroom, walk away for a minute. It's just something you have to learn how to do. It's not easy being with 20-30 kids all the time. My first year teaching I had such a horrible class. I would call an admin once a day for a week to have them watch my kids for a little so I can just step away.
To me, what you have described as a mental breakdown is not right. A ment breakdown is (to me!) a temporary inability to function. Because you can function and choose to leave the room isn't (in my head) a true mental breakdown (although I definitely don't underestimate the stress you must be under!). A mental breakdown as @amdecker1016 I think was meaning is totally lost it, cannot reason to make the decision to walk out. This is when it could be dangerous. Perhaps an impossible situation to predict, but I'd expect they would need to be under stress from a number of sources for this to happen.
Mental breakdowns do not affect certain people who do certain professions and ignore those in others. Sadly, like all mental illnesses I don't think anyone is immune.
The government should pay for installation in public schools to ensure safety. They come with the money to pay for other stuff, why not this. It would be a one time pay out not something that is continuously costing money (except for repairs).
Or, you know, they could just enact sane gun laws. To echo the POTUS, the US doesn't have a monopoly on crazy. What we do have are the most lax gun laws of any other industrialized nation.
I always find the 'stricter gun laws just mean only bad guys have guns' logic really strange. Probably because I live in Canada. Gun laws are tougher here and as a result our gun crime per capita is way lower than in the U.S.
I always find the 'stricter gun laws just mean only bad guys have guns' logic really strange. Probably because I live in Canada. Gun laws are tougher here and as a result our gun crime per capita is way lower than in the U.S.
"as a result?" Correlation does not equal causation...
This article looks at the relationship between gun ownership, gun laws and gun deaths. With some of the most lax gun laws in first world countries the U.S. has such an incredibly high death rate from guns that it is predicted that by next year deaths by gun violence will exceed deaths by motor vehicle accident. Seems like there is a pretty good case for causation to me.
@saisongbird I don't think @amdecker1016 meant it that way at all! Just because most teachers wouldn't, doesn't mean there isn't someone who would.
@mommyKT310 in 6th grade we had several bomb threats toward the end of school. So many, that school was let out 2 weeks early. The next year, every school had metal detectors, lockers were taken out, and all backpacks had to be mesh or clear. While I think the lockers were a good idea, the metal detectors took forever to get into school. They are expensive, and they have to be manned. Not to mention that it was humiliating as a middle schooler to have your tampons dumped out of your gym bag on the search table!
@mommyKT310 while I think it is up to the parent as to whether or not they homeschool I hope this wasn't the sole reason you made that choice. Planes fly into buildings, people shoot strangers in movie theaters and gyms, bombs go off at marathons. The world is a big ol f'd up place!
And in regards to the govt installing metal detectors...where would the money come from? I could be way off base (since I don't know your thoughts on this subject) but I would guess that as a parent who homeschools, you might get pissed at a tax hike to pay for the equipment in schools your children aren't using. Like someone said, the money's gotta come from somewhere though!
It just rubs me the wrong way when teachers become scapegoats for everything and anything that is wrong with schools. If a teacher snapped, it's not because they're a teacher, it's because they're mentally ill and need help. But I guarantee it wouldn't be reported that way.
I pay my taxes, take care of my baby, and when I am working, work my ass off to take care of yours. When do we get acknowledged as the good guys here?
We don't. And that's sad too.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me. You made my wedding day complete.
@saisongbird I'm so sorry you feel this way. I honestly feel like teachers are very valued. I loved getting thanked and praised by students and parents, and even strangers. I have never been made to feel like a scapegoat, and it makes me sad to think there are teachers who feel this way. Maybe you should reconsider the school district you are in?
I also think that because we work with kids we should be held to a higher standard.
Right. I appreciate and respect teachers and will teach my kids that they should do the same but I think we're in the minority in this country on this.
You most definitely are. I get constantly told, in one way or another, that because their taxes pay my salary that the parents are in charge. And it's like this all over LI. It doesn't help that we pay some of the highest school taxes in the state (and possibly the nation) and that 3/4 of our tax dollars go upstate. But that's a whole other argument for another day.
We get blamed when kids fail. Not, did Johnny pay attention in class or study at home. We get blamed when kids misbehave or get hurt. Not, did Johnny listen to the teacher when he was nicely told to stop. It's gotten worse since I started teaching 10 years ago. Helicopter parents don't let their kids fail. You have to let your kids out of a bubble at some point and let them make their own mistakes - otherwise you have parents calling college professors and telling them to change their grades.
But again, that too is a whole other argument for another day.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me. You made my wedding day complete.
Right. I appreciate and respect teachers and will teach my kids that they should do the same but I think we're in the minority in this country on this.
You most definitely are. I get constantly told, in one way or another, that because their taxes pay my salary that the parents are in charge. And it's like this all over LI. It doesn't help that we pay some of the highest school taxes in the state (and possibly the nation) and that 3/4 of our tax dollars go upstate. But that's a whole other argument for another day.
We get blamed when kids fail. Not, did Johnny pay attention in class or study at home. We get blamed when kids misbehave or get hurt. Not, did Johnny listen to the teacher when he was nicely told to stop. It's gotten worse since I started teaching 10 years ago. Helicopter parents don't let their kids fail. You have to let your kids out of a bubble at some point and let them make their own mistakes - otherwise you have parents calling college professors and telling them to change their grades.
But again, that too is a whole other argument for another day.
I wholeheartedly agree. Back in my day, if I screwed up on a test it was MY fault. My mother was angry at ME, not my teacher. I also walked three miles to school. Uphill. Both ways. In the snow.
All that said, I do think the system needs to change in regard to tenure. I had some really, really, REALLY shitty teachers that, when budget cuts were made, were able to stick around and instead, the new, outstanding teachers were forced out simply because they hadn't been there as long. It's a shame this happens.
If it were me losing my mind about to go on a shooting rampage, I wouldn't pick a target area where I knew others could be armed with guns. Therefore "gun free zones" can often be targets. If a teacher at my child's school wanted to conceal carry, I wouldn't object.
On the subject of teachers, I can only have an opinion on the teachers I have had experiences with, and I must say that they were a joke! I live in the least funded per student county in the nation. If I want my children to have a quality education I'm going to have to either pay for private school, or homeschool them. Do I believe that other teachers don't suck as bad as my local ones? Yes. But my opinion on teachers in Virginia sure isn't going to be relevant.
If it were me losing my mind about to go on a shooting rampage, I wouldn't pick a target area where I knew others could be armed with guns. Therefore "gun free zones" can often be targets. If a teacher at my child's school wanted to conceal carry, I wouldn't object.
But you are not having a mental breakdown and no longer care about yours or anyone else's safety...... I don't really have an opinion on gun laws (little uk poster! So we don't often have guns and would never carry them if we do (ok so we do, but husband is a farmer.... So it's unusual we do)), but trying to make others remember these aren't reasonable people who do these unthinkable things!
@saisongbird I think saying teachers are under appreciated and made to be the 'bad guys' is a little much. There isn't a job out there where the employee isn't a punching bag for someone. Teachers get it from parents...I'm in corporate banking..I get beat on by my clients and bank management. Bank management gets beat on by the SEC and governing bodies. Everyone is a bad guy to someone. My mom was a teacher and my sister is a teacher so I have the utmost respect for the job they do/did; however they aren't getting any sympathy on the basis that their job comes with the requirement of dealing with some shit from people because, well, so does everyone's job. Teachers don't get shit on any more than any other profession....it just comes from parents instead of a traditional manager. Same shit...different source!
@clo1982 - I totally get that everyone gets shit at their jobs. Never said anyone else didn't. But lately it seems like we've come under attack. We get paid too much, we don't work a full year, tenure shouldn't exist, parents should have the right to dictate how we educate, Common Core, evaluations linked to flawed state tests that make us "bad" teachers - the list goes on and on.
And I would be willing to bet that someone in corporate banking gets one heck of a lot more perks than I get. I would settle for a bathroom where the toilet stalls actually closed and a faculty room that was properly heated and cooled. Or that had a working microwave.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me. You made my wedding day complete.
I won't get into the negative parts or complaints of my job, but much like yours, there are many. Sure there are perks, but there are perks in any job. I have flexibility in my hours, you are off summers. There are good parts to being a teacher just as there are good parts to my job and any job....and the same on the flip side with bad things. Also, as ridiculous as it is, if you had seen my old office space you probably would have laughed. Our ceiling tiles would literally fall down on desks...but the building was owned free and clear and it's tough to justify the cost of renting office space to shareholders when you have a debt free building! Again, I see how hard teachers work and respect the hell out of them but I can't get on board with feeling bad about the hardships of the job. I can empathize but I can't sympathize. Being under appreciated and being a punching bag seem to be universal feeling a regardless of the industry!
I grew up in Norwood and lived in Old Tappan for a bit. It's the most northeastern area of the county, right on the border to Rockland NY. Where are you in Bergen?
I think one of the differences is the way in which teachers are judged. It always seems to me that because everyone went to school they seem to think they have an insight on how to be a teacher and because they pay taxes they seem to think they have a right to treat you as they see fit.
I don't pretend to know how or try to tell someone how to be a lawyer, farmer, store manager, bookkeeper, etc. However it does come of offensive to me as a special education teacher when someone presumes they know how to do my job because they have had teachers and went to public school... Or when people say things like "I pay your salary". That is true of any position. My husband is a bookkeeper at a large tile company, but when someone isn't happy with their tile, which their purchase technically pays his salary, no one gets in his face and says things about knowing how to do his job and paying his salary.
The political climate in my state is not teacher friendly. I make $32,000 a year which is a few thousand less than I made when I was hired 5 years ago. I am on a pay freeze for the next 5 years. With the new teacher assessments I have been rated highly effective. I could still be let go tomorrow and have no opportunity to earn any additional pay at my job. I accept all of this and I chose this profession.
I guess what just gets me is that the difference is how invested everyone is in trying to tell teachers how to do their jobs, that they should or shouldn't carry a weapon, that they should be happy with earning a small income because they have other perks. I don't presume to have an opinion on how others should do their job and how much they should make and what they should and shouldn't put up with, so it does bug me that people do that to me.
On the note of guns, as I mentioned I am a special education teacher. I specifically work with students with mental illnesses and behavior disorders. I have had things done to me in my classroom no one should have to deal with, such as being sexually assaulted. That being said, the day someone expects me to carry a weapon is the day I leave the field. I sincerely believe that as a 5'2" woman who has students a foot taller than me and a hundred pounds heavier than me it would put me, my students, and the 1200 students in my building in extreme danger.
I think teachers are the most well respected and acknowledged professionals out there.
Uhh... really? I think if they were, they'd be paid an actual salary and parents wouldn't flip shit at them when little Johnny fails his spelling test (due to Johnny's lack of studying).
Cause some people suck, but I think the majority of people hold the same opinion I do.
This culture of shitting on teachers because your child isn't doing well wasn't the case 20 years ago. The same goes for people verbally and physically abusing their nurses on a daily basis. That's a whole other story, but it says a lot about our culture nowadays.
honestly I think it's a cultural issue with a lack of respect for others in general. I think there is an entire cross section that has become self involved and tend to disregard the action of themselves or their progeny and rather blame vs finding constructive solutions. I think this will always be an issue for persons in any business but especially for ones in public service.
Just because there are those people doesn't mean the rest of your students parents don't respect you...maybe overlook at times, but a lit of us can't be lumped into that. I verbally thank my day care staff every day and will probably do the same withvalued teacher as LO grows
@LittlePigeon totally agree! This is why I don't understand school boards (probably a UO). In what other profession do people who know nothing about your profession make the important decisions?
Edited to add: @clo1982 as a teacher married to a banker, I hear you!
Thank you @clo1982 that's what I wanted to say, but I didn't want to pull out the comparison card. But you know what, I am because EVERYONE has reasons to hate their job.
I miss out on holidays, weekends, and summers with my job. While people are at home on Christmas with their family I am stuck in the hospital working for 13 hours straight without sitting for more than 30 minutes to chart some days. I also don't get to go to the bathroom because one of my patients is too sick for me to leave their bedside, nor do I get to eat breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Sure, everyday isn't like that but more are than they're not. I get screamed at on a daily basis, threatened, cussed at, sexually and physically assaulted sometimes. I risk my health and wellness taking care of people who are really sick, with contagious things that I could contract or bring home to my baby. I fuck with blood and body fluids infected with Hep C and HIV. For 'nurses appreciation' we get a cookie. I get yelled at by upper management for anything and everything, like not taking my unpaid lunch break but yet I don't have time to in the first place.
My job doesn't come with perks, praise, respect from my 'clients' and their families either. It also didn't when I was in retail or a waitress. It's not just teachers!
Don't forget that everytime you turn around you are being reminded that your license can be yanked for just about anything.
Our school had one or two police officers that roamed around. They were cool dudes and interacted with the majority of the student body. This was because of the open campus in the middle of downtown though. They had guns. I'd be cool if some of my teachers had guns. I know some of them were trained in weapon safety.
Re: FFFC
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
Like snow said it was more along the lines of what if a teacher has a mental breakdown.
Did not mean to offend you or @addisonsmom22 i apologize!
In this world some tragedies will never be eliminated 100 percent, there are other ways to try and prevent these situations and having people carry to try and protect is a false sense of security.
Mental breakdowns do not affect certain people who do certain professions and ignore those in others. Sadly, like all mental illnesses I don't think anyone is immune.
Or, you know, they could just enact sane gun laws. To echo the POTUS, the US doesn't have a monopoly on crazy. What we do have are the most lax gun laws of any other industrialized nation.
"as a result?" Correlation does not equal causation...
https://www.businessinsider.com/americas-gun-problem-explained-2013-4?op=1
Eta article link
@mommyKT310 in 6th grade we had several bomb threats toward the end of school. So many, that school was let out 2 weeks early. The next year, every school had metal detectors, lockers were taken out, and all backpacks had to be mesh or clear. While I think the lockers were a good idea, the metal detectors took forever to get into school. They are expensive, and they have to be manned. Not to mention that it was humiliating as a middle schooler to have your tampons dumped out of your gym bag on the search table!
They only lasted for a semester.
And in regards to the govt installing metal detectors...where would the money come from? I could be way off base (since I don't know your thoughts on this subject) but I would guess that as a parent who homeschools, you might get pissed at a tax hike to pay for the equipment in schools your children aren't using. Like someone said, the money's gotta come from somewhere though!
I pay my taxes, take care of my baby, and when I am working, work my ass off to take care of yours. When do we get acknowledged as the good guys here?
We don't. And that's sad too.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
I also think that because we work with kids we should be held to a higher standard.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
On the subject of teachers, I can only have an opinion on the teachers I have had experiences with, and I must say that they were a joke! I live in the least funded per student county in the nation. If I want my children to have a quality education I'm going to have to either pay for private school, or homeschool them. Do I believe that other teachers don't suck as bad as my local ones? Yes. But my opinion on teachers in Virginia sure isn't going to be relevant.
Bergen? I grew up there. We're in Union now. The taxes are a bit less, but still insane by the rest of the country's standards.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
We looked in Morris too. Sometimes I miss Bergen, but then I go shopping on Sundays and all is forgotten ;-)
I don't pretend to know how or try to tell someone how to be a lawyer, farmer, store manager, bookkeeper, etc. However it does come of offensive to me as a special education teacher when someone presumes they know how to do my job because they have had teachers and went to public school... Or when people say things like "I pay your salary". That is true of any position. My husband is a bookkeeper at a large tile company, but when someone isn't happy with their tile, which their purchase technically pays his salary, no one gets in his face and says things about knowing how to do his job and paying his salary.
The political climate in my state is not teacher friendly. I make $32,000 a year which is a few thousand less than I made when I was hired 5 years ago. I am on a pay freeze for the next 5 years. With the new teacher assessments I have been rated highly effective. I could still be let go tomorrow and have no opportunity to earn any additional pay at my job. I accept all of this and I chose this profession.
I guess what just gets me is that the difference is how invested everyone is in trying to tell teachers how to do their jobs, that they should or shouldn't carry a weapon, that they should be happy with earning a small income because they have other perks. I don't presume to have an opinion on how others should do their job and how much they should make and what they should and shouldn't put up with, so it does bug me that people do that to me.
On the note of guns, as I mentioned I am a special education teacher. I specifically work with students with mental illnesses and behavior disorders. I have had things done to me in my classroom no one should have to deal with, such as being sexually assaulted. That being said, the day someone expects me to carry a weapon is the day I leave the field. I sincerely believe that as a 5'2" woman who has students a foot taller than me and a hundred pounds heavier than me it would put me, my students, and the 1200 students in my building in extreme danger.
Edit: Mobile formatting
This culture of shitting on teachers because your child isn't doing well wasn't the case 20 years ago. The same goes for people verbally and physically abusing their nurses on a daily basis. That's a whole other story, but it says a lot about our culture nowadays.
honestly I think it's a cultural issue with a lack of respect for others in general. I think there is an entire cross section that has become self involved and tend to disregard the action of themselves or their progeny and rather blame vs finding constructive solutions. I think this will always be an issue for persons in any business but especially for ones in public service.
Just because there are those people doesn't mean the rest of your students parents don't respect you...maybe overlook at times, but a lit of us can't be lumped into that. I verbally thank my day care staff every day and will probably do the same withvalued teacher as LO grows
Edited to add:
@clo1982 as a teacher married to a banker, I hear you!
They had guns. I'd be cool if some of my teachers had guns. I know some of them were trained in weapon safety.