June '14 BFing/Pumping Questions Thread

ElTrain5 · June 2014

I'm still working my way through this thread, so I apologize if this was already asked...but did your breasts stay bigger after your supply came in? I've heard from most that they definiltey get bigger at first, but that they usually go back down....Did yours return to around your normal size? How long did that take?

ncbelle · June 2014

MrsRahl - It will get better! Side lying nursing is helpful for a fast flow and for getting some rest. PLEASE do not sleep with baby in a recliner or on a couch - that's when accidents happen. There are safe bed sharing guidelines here: https://cosleeping.nd.edu/safe-co-sleeping-guidelines/ - as well as some research on bed sharing and breastfeeding. Babies do sometimes use their tongues to control flow - do you hear clicking noises when she nurses? If the nipple pain continues, I'd have an IBCLC take another look.

meritmacalpine - That sounds great! Good luck - I bet things are going smoothly in no time!

fsumom · June 2014

I ended up giving Lucas some formula. He took .75oz. I was leaking the other day but it feels like my supply is dwindling down

. My breasts are super soft and neither start leaking when I feed. I've been feeding on demand so I'm not sure what else I can do. His weight is concerning so my priority now is to make sure he's gaining weight.

meritsamomma · June 2014

@ncbelle‌ SO EXCITED! The last two feedings I was able to use SNS and no nipple shield! I think being home and all of us getting some sleep is doing wonders!
Thank you for taking time from your new addition to help all of us with ours!!!

ELC252011 · June 2014

@ncbelle‌ just got back from her ped apt. She has only gained 6oz in almost 3weeks. She needed to gain at least a pound. He then told me she should be having 5-6poopy diapers a day, she only has 1-4. He also feels there is a problem with my supply. They both (her ped and my LC) want me not to stop BF but want me to give her a little bit of formula after each feeding. She doesn't have a tongue tie. No other options were given to me.

ELC252011 · June 2014

AmyG* said:

@ELC252011 said:

@ncbelle‌ just got back from her ped apt. She has only gained 6oz in almost 3weeks. She needed to gain at least a pound. He then told me she should be having 5-6poopy diapers a day, she only has 1-4. He also feels there is a problem with my supply. They both (her ped and my LC) want me not to stop BF but want me to give her a little bit of formula after each feeding. She doesn't have a tongue tie. No other options were given to me.

6 oz weight gain from lowest weight, or from birth? I think from reading baby is 3 weeks old, so is baby at birthweight or still lower than birthweight. what is weight gain history so far?

Its normal for a breastfed baby to lose up to 10% of their birthweight in the days before your milk comes in. And then it's normal for them to gain 4-7 oz per week, avg of 1/2-1 oz per day from the LOWEST weight.

So let me give you an example.

a 7lb baby that loses 10% of weight is a loss of 11 oz and that lowest weight is usually the day before your milk came in, so say avg is 3- 5 days of age, so at 4 days of age, baby is down to 6lb 5 oz. and then if baby is gaining 1 oz a day, they regain birthweight in 11 days from day 4 which is day 15, so 2 weeks 1 day old. right? However, if baby is a girl they tend to gain weight at a bit lower rate than boys, so they maybe it's normal for your baby to gain at a rate of only 4 oz a week, or 1/2 oz per day. Now to put that into perspective, to regain 11 oz at 1/2 oz per day is 22 days, starting at day 4 when milk came in if everything was perfect, that's day 26 or 3 weeks 5 days old, almost a month old to regain birthweight at a normal rate, just not at the higher/faster rate that dr wants.

So 1st we need to figure out if baby has regained 6 oz over birthweight, then that's a good rate! if baby had weight loss of 10% and has now gained 6 oz they are probably gaining close to 1 oz per day. You can check kellymom.com and do the math yourself to see how much per day on average baby is gaining, being sure to put in baby's lowest rate, or estimate baby's lowest weight.

5-6 poopy diapers a day at 3 weeks of age is not really a good guide. You want to see a minimum of 6-8 wet and or poopy diapers a day, because with human babies most every time they poop they also go pee. So how many total diaper changes do you have a day?

Pee is a good indicator of sufficient number of oz of fluids.

Poop however is a good indicator of enough calories and fat, so yes, we do like to see several a day, but there is so much variation, you can't judge the healthiness of a bfing relationship on poop diaper count alone.

What do you do?

Get a 2nd opinion from another LC, yours seems a bit um, negative from what I read from your posts. several things you've said that are normal, LC seems to say are an issue. they have you giving formula and not pumping to replace every oz of formula (or trying) is a warning sign that your LC is not as supportive of bfing as you need her to be!

Have you had a weighted feeding to see exactly how much oz your baby is able to get at the breast? That's the only way to tell if baby is getting enough milk or not, although a once time weighted feed can be off because baby is nursing in the office instead of at home, it's usually a good indicator of how things are going. Without this info, you don't know exactly the best plan for what to do next.

If you give any formula while waiting for this to get all figured out, you need to try to collect that amt of oz by pumping. You need to give the formula in a bfing friendly manner, slow flow nipple, stopping to burp and switch sides. and give SMALL amts. watch diaper count. if you have over 6-8 diaper changes a day, especially if you are over 10-12 there may just be some bfing management techniques you need, or feed more often or longer on just one side to boost weight gain and fat intake.

Also nurse as often as you can, every 2 hours for one day, followed by pumping, to up your supply. then every 2 hours during day 3 hours at night. make sure baby finishes side #1 before offering side number 2. You said baby has long feeds, but that's NORMAL and expected and NOT a sign of low supply in and of itself. From what you've said, I think poor expectations of dr/LC are more of an issue than your supply. In 3 weeks you'd expect a weight gain of 4 oz x 3 weeks as minimum gain but only from LOWEST weight which means the first 4-6 or more oz is just regaining back to birthweight, so a weight gain of 6 oz
over birthweight would be ideal.

and even "just" 6 oz of weight gain from lowest weight really isn't bad, that's 1/2 oz per day for 12 days straight and baby isn't much older than that!!!

yes I know I'm not a part of this bmb, but I am passionate about bfing and helping as best I can. and this one really sounded like it needed an answer.

@AmyG*‌ thank you so much for this info. I really do feel lost when it comes to all of this, especially since I just hear negative news. I'm glad to read it can all be normal. I will do more research and get a second opinion from a different LC. I really don't want to lose my supply or give up on BF. I do appreciate the help

ELC252011 · June 2014

@AmyG*‌ and it was a weight gain of 6oz from lowest weight.

JmeJoLee83 · June 2014

Why do I feel sad having DH give baby a bottle of pumped milk? Will he really not want to nurse the more bottles we give?

MrsRahl · June 2014

@Ncbelle I definitely do not sleep with her and only let her sleep in the bassinet. I'll check out that link but I doubt I'll still be able to convince myself to do it lol. Interesting you say their tongue can't control flow as that is what the LC told me. Not saying you are wrong. I've been to 2 different IBCLC's and both say her latch is good, but it's still so painful at times because my nipples are raw. We feed a LOT so they just never get a chance to heal! I don't know what to do really, but on Kelly Mom I read to try a saline wash on my nipples to speed up the process and have tried that since.

StrawberryDreams219 thank you for the encouragement We are hanging in there and will make it work, I just never realized HOW much work and will power this would take!

roadspeckle · June 2014

JmeJoLee83 said:
Why do I feel sad having DH give baby a bottle of pumped milk? Will he really not want to nurse the more bottles we give?

DH gave baby his first bottle of
BM today and I was SO sad! I thought I was a freak and the only one who fel this way.

roadspeckle · June 2014

AmyG* said:

@JmeJoLee83 said:

Why do I feel sad having DH give baby a bottle of pumped milk? Will he really not want to nurse the more bottles we give?

if you give bottles in a way to make bottle feeding easier and faster for baby to get full, yes it is possible baby may come to prefer the bottle. humans are a bit lazy. so use slow flow bottle nipple, paced feeds and make baby have to work for milk from bottle. slow bottles down taking about 20 minutes for a feeding like it does when nursing and baby will see bottle as just another way to eat not an easier way to eat.

@AmyG*‌ - what kind of bottles have slow flow? I'm a FTM and have been EBF so I have no information about bottles. We used avent as I got
It as a gift

ncbelle · June 2014

fsumom - Hugs again mama - I know you are feeling stressed. Any chance you could meet with an IBCLC today for some hands on help?Doing some weighed feedings would help answer what's going on. It's normal to start to feel "soft" as your supply settles so that may just be that happening that you are seeing.

meritmacalpine - That's great to hear!!And glad you got some sleep too - amazing how that helps

MrsRahl - I was saying they DO use their tongues to control flow

If you hear clicking as your milk lets down, that's likely what's going on. Declan does that - he'll be sucking without clicks and the second my milk lets down (I have a fast flow) he clicks a bit. Some babies will just pull off altogether because they get overwhelmed by the speed; others will work to control it. Either way, as they get older, the problem tends to resolve on it's own. If you do have a lot of milk, nursing just one side per session is really helpful.

And I'd ditto something AmyG mentioned, keep pressing for answers if you are having struggles. There's often more than one thing to try and every situation is a bit different. If you seek hands on help, do make sure it's with an IBCLC (and not just someone calling themselves an LC), particularly if you get advice that seems less than helpful or conflicts wildly with something else you've heard. Sometimes internet advice is a bit tricky because we only know part of your story and may miss an important detail. And for a lot of things - like latch issues - really hands on help is invaluable.

Hang in there mamas!! In a month or so, things will be so so much easier with everything!!

roadspeckle · June 2014

mullenem said:
@Rachelnjacob We used Avent with DD. As long as they are the small 5oz. sized bottles, they already have the slowest flow nipple in them. If you have the larger sized 9oz bottles, go to the store and buy some replacement nipples in the newborn or 0+ size, as the larger bottles come with a faster flow nipple.
Kellymom has great tips for bottle feeding a breastfed baby:
https://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/feeding-tools/bottle-feeding/

@mullenem‌ - thank you so much!

sumochik · June 2014

Hi ladies, just looking for some support here. LO had slightly elevated bilirubin in the hospital but bloodworm came back ok, took baby back to pedi today and he's still yellow so doc took more blood. He said if it's slightly high I will have to stop BF for about 5 days and if super high he LO will go back to hospital to go under the lights.
So now I am freaking out that if my baby gets a bottle for 5 days he won't want to go back to the breast.
Also, he lost 8 ounces in the hospital and has only gained 2 ounces back. We've been home for 2 days.
Any advice?

roadspeckle · June 2014

@sumochik‌ - why will you need to stop breast feeding? When my son had a high Bili, I was encouraged to breast feed as much as I could. His Bili went up to 14.7 and ended up being fine.

jshrop · June 2014

@sumochik‌ I agree with @rachelnjacob‌. I don't understand why you'd have to stop bf? Try feeding him in a sunny spot in your house or (if it's not super hot) outside-- not directly in the sun. My LO was yellowish for almost 10 days. Doc just wanted her sitting in a sunny window and feeding as often as possible

sumochik · June 2014

@rachelnjacob‌ @jshrop‌ @mullenem‌ The doc said that when you BF the baby takes in less and so output is less. He said pooping helps get the bilirubin out. He also said that my hormones go into the baby and that his liver has to metabolize both that and the bilirubin which again makes it take longer to get rid of it. These are the two reasons he gave. The doc was my husband's pedi and I'm not sure what to do about a possible second opinion? Maybe call the lactation consultants at the hospital?
I'm just feeling so emotional about this

Thanks ladies for replying so quickly.

meritsamomma · June 2014

@sumochik‌ As with some PPs my LO has to be under the bill - lights for 24 hrs. She came out every 3 hrs for 30 minute feedings and we supplemented with formula to make sure she was hydrated (the lights dehydrate them) and getting enough calories. I'm now pumping and using a SNS system to keep her on the breast and back off the bottle. Remember these first couple weeks are the best time to establish BFing so ask about doing SNS with formula before going straight to bottle! We're having a few issues getting her back on the nipple after the bottles! GL!

sumochik · June 2014

@nutmegs8‌ so you never went back to breast? The blanket, did you do that at the hospital or at home? I'm guessing like you said since my LO only gained 2 oz since Monday morning that's why the pedi said he's not getting enough. Which method did you use when supplementing?

@meritmacalpine‌ where did you get the SNS system? So when your LO was under the lights that was in the NICU and you were able to stay there the entire time?
GL with getting her back on the nipple, that is my greatest fear with this situation, that my LO will completely refuse the breast after getting more milk and faster milk through FF.

I'm wondering if the bilirubin levels have to be above a certain number for the insurance to cover the light? Because I'm not understanding why he would recommend if the levels are elevated but not super high to stop BF for a couple of days.

fsumom · June 2014

I'm so nervous. Tomorrow I take DS for his 5th weight check! If he hasn't gained or lost weight, I will need to give him formula. At 8 days old, he was 13oz from his birth weight. Guaranteed, I did have IV fluids which can inflate the birth weight but still. He has several wet/dirty diapers daily so I feel he must be getting enough. I'm just at a loss!

ncbelle · June 2014

sumochik - I agree, there's no reason you should have to stop nursing - that's dated advice. There's more good info here: https://kellymom.com/health/baby-health/bfhelp-jaundice/ What is your current nursing pattern like? Jaundice can make babies really sleepy so it will be important to wake him to feed until he is at birth weight and the jaundice is gone. Every 2 hours during the day (you can go to 3 a few times at night). Getting a little sun would be good as well! Nurse, nurse, nurse!

fsumom - Good luck! Let us know how it goes! And do talk with an IBCLC if you can!

emilyh107 - Sorry

Make sure to treat yourself as well to avoid passing it back and forth.

tbmadeamistake · June 2014

Charlie is eating far less today and sleeping far more today than usual. I dont timhink he's had a full feeding all day. Still producing wet and poop diapers, but it just seems strange. When he is awake, he's not lethargic, he just can't seem to stay awake long enough to eat, even when he's rooting like crazy. Worry now or worry if it keeps up overnight?

roadspeckle · June 2014

This doesn't really pertain particularly to BF, but I am 4 weeks PP and I'm bleeding. Not very heavy - is it too soon to get a period, or is it left over from delivery? I thought periods didn't come during bf.

britleann26 · June 2014

LO was delivered 3 weeks early due to pre eclampsia. Is it possible my milk just hasn't fully come in yet? I tried BF at first but she dropped 1 lb 9 oz within 6 days (originally birth weight was 7 lb 9 oz) and I was told to pump and then feed her by bottle to keep track of the amount she was eating. I can only pump .25 oz form both breasts every 2 hours so I had to supplement with formula. She is almost back to her birth weight now. We had suction issues (had to syringe feed) but that is much better now. I have never felt a let down, or leaked and my breasts never feel full (or different from pre pregnancy).

MrsRahl · June 2014

@AmyG*‌ @ncbelle‌ woops! My apologies on the controlling flow! I have been so sleep deprived and reading these half asleep while nursing lol. Thanks for the info. I do aim my nipple at her nose and make her open up to my level but she often doesn't open very wide and is shaking her head rooting while trying to so this so it is very tough to get the latch right. Also when we do get a wide latch she'll quickly reduce it and slide her lips smaller. Can be very frustrating at times. She'll also stretch while feeding and pull her head back and keep sucking. That isn't very pleasant either

I guess we just have to keep practicing. The right breast is pretty painless now but the left is killer.

My main question now is this: how often should I put lanolin on my nips when sore? After every feeding? Not every time? I've heard it can clog things up if you use too much. Is this true? I've been using saline from kellymom recipe. Seems to help. I don't have leaky breasts so my nips are staying very dry after feeding. Also any suggestions for getting baby to open up wider other than the nipple on the nose trick? I try to hold her chin down at times, I've tried sliding her chin down during feeding, just nothing seems to get her to open up unless I wait until she's screaming for milk and her mouth is wide. I don't want to wait to feed her when she's screaming though so that's not really a great option.

rainbowdashh · June 2014

rachelnjacob said:
This doesn't really pertain particularly to BF, but I am 4 weeks PP and I'm bleeding. Not very heavy - is it too soon to get a period, or is it left over from delivery? I thought periods didn't come during bf.

I was still bleeding a little at 4 weeks pp. You can most definitely get a period while you're breastfeeding though! Some women get them right away and others take months.

Cherylwang · June 2014

My LO has thrown up about 5 times (15 days old) where it is like a cup of liquid pouring out. My son used to do this a lot too. I am EBF and I have been careful on what I am eating and drinking. I may call the doctor I wonder if she has acid reflux. Anyone else's baby throwing up like the exorcist?

jshrop · June 2014

MrsRahl said:
I do aim my nipple at her nose and make her open up to my level but she often doesn't open very wide and is shaking her head rooting while trying to so this so it is very tough to get the latch right. Also when we do get a wide latch she'll quickly reduce it and slide her lips smaller. Can be very frustrating at times. She'll also stretch while feeding and pull her head back and keep sucking. That isn't very pleasant either I guess we just have to keep practicing. The right breast is pretty painless now but the left is killer.

Also any suggestions for getting baby to open up wider other than the nipple on the nose trick? I try to hold her chin down at times, I've tried sliding her chin down during feeding, just nothing seems to get her to open up unless I wait until she's screaming for milk and her mouth is wide. I don't want to wait to feed her when she's screaming though so that's not really a great option.

Following this bc these are our exact problems! I've been pumping my left side for about 2 days because I can't deal with the pain anymore. Now I'm worried I'm developing a clogged duct because the left gets engorged through the night. I also don't think she sticks her tongue out much, but I can't tell.

nunzchucks · June 2014

@tdonatoni We have been changing the diaper between boobs. If he poops during the second boob, we change the diaper and then I put him on boob 2 again until he unlatches. Then, off to sleep!

elsa1688 · June 2014

My milk came in Sunday night and LO has had about 3-4 poopy diapers that were the right color but just liquid. We are using Honest Co. Diapers but it seems like everything is just absorbed. Is that normal?

roadspeckle · June 2014

Cherylwang said:
My LO has thrown up about 5 times (15 days old) where it is like a cup of liquid pouring out. My son used to do this a lot too. I am EBF and I have been careful on what I am eating and drinking. I may call the doctor I wonder if she has acid reflux. Anyone else's baby throwing up like the exorcist?

@Cherylwang‌ - my LO. He's a little better since starting Zantac for his reflux, but is not been fun. Started around two weeks and just got worse from there.

sumochik · June 2014

nutmegs8 said:

sumochik said:

@nutmegs8‌ so you never went back to breast? The blanket, did you do that at the hospital or at home? I'm guessing like you said since my LO only gained 2 oz since Monday morning that's why the pedi said he's not getting enough. Which method did you use when supplementing?

@meritmacalpine‌ where did you get the SNS system? So when your LO was under the lights that was in the NICU and you were able to stay there the entire time?
GL with getting her back on the nipple, that is my greatest fear with this situation, that my LO will completely refuse the breast after getting more milk and faster milk through FF.

I'm wondering if the bilirubin levels have to be above a certain number for the insurance to cover the light? Because I'm not understanding why he would recommend if the levels are elevated but not super high to stop BF for a couple of days.

I've put her on the breast a few times (with nipple shield) since then, but honestly, I've become impatient and she gets fussy because she realizes that she actually has to work for food. Pumping and bottle feeding puts my mind at ease because I know exactly how much she is getting.

We rented the blanket from a supplier and did it in-home. Our hospital is over an hour away, so driving there every day to put her under lights was not ideal. I don't know about insurance requirements; we'll find out about that when we get a bill. DF did say that the rental company said it was $70/day rental for the blanket. I do know that there is a chart of bili levels depending on how many days/hours old they are. "Acceptable" levels go up as they get older.

When I supplemented, I gave her about an ounce of formula each feeding in addition to pumped breast milk, which was about an ounce. I couldn't keep up with her demand for a few days (even pumping), which is another reason why I supplemented with formula.

Ok I get what you're saying it makes perfect sense. And $70 a day to rent is actually a lot less than I would have thought. Plus to be at home with baby instead of back at the hospital takes away some of the scariness to me. Thanks so much I feel like I have a couple of options to discuss when the pedi calls tomorrow.

sumochik · June 2014

mullenem said:

sumochik said:

@rachelnjacob‌ @jshrop‌ @mullenem‌ The doc said that when you BF the baby takes in less and so output is less. He said pooping helps get the bilirubin out. He also said that my hormones go into the baby and that his liver has to metabolize both that and the bilirubin which again makes it take longer to get rid of it. These are the two reasons he gave. The doc was my husband's pedi and I'm not sure what to do about a possible second opinion? Maybe call the lactation consultants at the hospital?
I'm just feeling so emotional about this

Thanks ladies for replying so quickly.

I'm not a dr. or anything but 2 oz of gain in 48 hours doesn't seem like THAT small of an amount...Can you tell if your milk has come in yet? If you can, I'd try to make sure that LO gets on the breast every 2 hours during the day and every 3-4 at night. I think it'd definitely be worth a call to the hospital LC just to get their opinion, and if you end up bottle supplementing, it's great to have a LC on call to help you get back on the breast.

Yes milk has def come in

Def going to call the LC tomorrow.

sumochik · June 2014

@ncbelle‌ he feeds every three hours and about every 3-4 at night. Birth weight was 7-9 and we left the hospital at 6-11. He's 6-13 today. It's funny you say that BC he is sleepy on the breast.

dragonfly711 · June 2014

Hello

I just had my baby a week ago. We are breast feeding but I have had to supplement with formula due to she was jaundice and we were just back in the hospital because her values were too high.

I started pumping. My milk came in 4 days after c section.

Now that I am pumping I know I am not producing enough milk. I amucku to get 10 mls total during one pump session. Most I have gotten was 35 mls total.

I am pumping every two hours. Having my little one nurse as well as suplomenting her.

Anyone have issues and was able to produce more? The consultant said I have tubular breasts so it can be hard to nurse.

I so want to breast feed. Kind of bummed I don't make enough.

tbmadeamistake · June 2014

@dragonfly711‌ keep in MIMD that your pump is no where near as effective at getting milk as your baby is. What you pump is not necessarily a good indicator of what lo could get if she were nursing. Some tricks for pumping are a warm compress before you start, looking at pictures or video of lo while you pump, or her if she's around, and doing manual massage toward the nipple while you pump. Good luck!!

meritsamomma · June 2014

@sumochik‌ The LC at the hospital gave us the SNS system. LO was kept in PP room with us under the lights. The nursing staff at the hospital went to bat for us because I started to lose it when they said I was being discharged without her. They discharged me and basically pretended our room was unoccupied for the next 24 hours. Those ladies made a really hard situation (because you just feel so powerless) so much better for us!
Thank you for the luck, we'll need it... not supplementing with formula anymore, as my milk has come in, but using the SNS system adds a whole other level to the whole BFing experience. LO has made great strides but this evening she has wanted no part of my breasts.
Broke down and decided for night feedings DH will give her a bottle of pumped milk while I pump. As defeated as I feel in a way, it makes so we can all get back to sleep faster instead of me staying up to pump after feedings...
GL!

MrsRahl · June 2014

Sorry if this was just asked because I feel I read it but can't find it now... anyone change diapers between boob switch at feeding and lo poops again after you just changed them? The LC told me to change in between nursing sides so she can go straight to sleep after, but lo just keeps pooping again and I end up changing her twice almost always. changing her wakes her up so badly. Any suggestions?

fsumom · June 2014

MrsRahl said:
Sorry if this was just asked because I feel I read it but can't find it now... anyone change diapers between boob switch at feeding and lo poops again after you just changed them? The LC told me to change in between nursing sides so she can go straight to sleep after, but lo just keeps pooping again and I end up changing her twice almost always. changing her wakes her up so badly. Any suggestions?

Yep! We've gone through many diapers.

ChristineBaker23 · June 2014

We are 2 1/2 weeks post partum and I started pumping around one week because I felt comfortable with my supply and how much baby is getting. I only pump once a day right now on one side and get about 4.5 ounces in 15-20 minutes. I usually pump about an hour after baby nurses. How can I gradually work up to pumping more often? When is the best time to pump?
@ncbelle‌ @AmyG*‌

@emilyh107‌ geez. You can't get a break can you??? Stay strong lady, our bodies were made for this! That's why girls rule and boys drool.

Want a personalized experience?

June '14 BFing/Pumping Questions Thread

Re: June '14 BFing/Pumping Questions Thread

Married DH 7/30/11

CSC arrived 5/7/12

CHC arrived 6/2/14

Married DH 7/30/11

CSC arrived 5/7/12

CHC arrived 6/2/14

Choose Another Board

Search Boards