Community› The Bump Month Clubs› February 2013 Moms
February 2013 Moms
New Discussion

What do you think about this?

kleigh926kleigh926 member
in February 2013 Moms
DH's cousin has a son who is about to turn one. He started walking recently and his grandma (DH's aunt) is extremely overprotective of him and always has been. Well, yesterday she posted some pics on FB of their neighborhood yard sale. The little boy was there and understandably, they couldn't be watching him every second and needed a safe place to put him.

Common sense would tell you that she'd bring out a PNP or some other sort of gear meant for babies to contain him. But what did she do? Put him in a DOG CAGE. It was a big cage, not like a small kennel, and they put a blanket on the bottom of it with toys. But it's still a cage! And there were pictures of him chewing on the metal sides of it. The baby's dad was there (not sure about mom) so I assume he had no problem with this.

My mom was disgusted when I showed her. My dad was like, "Eh, whatever. It's not that much different from a play pen." I just can't get over the fact that it's a metal dog cage. And I am very surprised that the grandma is the one who put him in it, because I would've expected the opposite from her- bringing out something that's actually meant for babies and being horrified at the thought of putting her grandson in a cage. I'm bored, so what are your thoughts on this?
PCOS with long, irregular cycles
First round of Clomid in May 2012= BFP #1, DD born January 2013 
BFP #2 in January 2014, DS born September 2014

image


image
View Full Size Image     View Full Size Image   

Report Reply to Post
«1

Re: What do you think about this?

  • Puck1182Puck1182 member
    Mostly this makes me think of the episode of Scrubs where the janitor gives Turk and Carla a "baby cage" as a baby shower gift. :-p


    image
    Report Reply
  • Loading the player...
  • jesuisfatigueejesuisfatiguee member
    Nope. No. No, no, no, no, no. Babies do not belong in cages. I mean, I get that it's not that different from a PnP, that he was safe and happily playing but… no. I just can't be ok with that. No.



    image
    image

    Report Reply
  • cinnasugarcinnasugar member
    Ok - I have to know, is this like a cage with a roof on top, like a kennel, or like one of those metal things with a roof on top, or is it an open dog cage, just a containment device but open on top?  For whatever reason, that distinction would sway me on the 'This is strange' vs 'Yeah, those people are whack-a-dos'.
    Mom to 3 year-old girl and 1 year-old boy
    Report Reply
  • kleigh926kleigh926 member
    It's a cage with a roof on top. Wire all the way around.
    PCOS with long, irregular cycles
    First round of Clomid in May 2012= BFP #1, DD born January 2013 
    BFP #2 in January 2014, DS born September 2014

    image


    image
    View Full Size Image     View Full Size Image   

    Report Reply
  • wifeofadamwifeofadam member
    My DH was tied with a rope to a table leg as a toddler, so to me a cage is a little more friendly.

    And really, I've seen dogs in strollers and kids on leashes, so the line between pet and toddler has already been blurred.  Don't they even sell teething biscuits for babies now?  That used to be a dog thing.  lol
        
    Report Reply
  • jesuisfatigueejesuisfatiguee member
    +adamwife+ said:
    My DH was tied with a rope to a table leg as a toddler, so to me a cage is a little more friendly.

    And really, I've seen dogs in strollers and kids on leashes, so the line between pet and toddler has already been blurred.  Don't they even sell teething biscuits for babies now?  That used to be a dog thing.  lol
    None of this makes me feel any better, especially the bolded.

    I am clutching my pearls so hard right now.



    image
    image

    Report Reply
  • cinnasugarcinnasugar member
    kleigh926 said:
    It's a cage with a roof on top. Wire all the way around.
    Ok then, whack-a-do.  I mean, I get that it serves the same purpose as a PNP, but geez, what would the neighbors think?
    Mom to 3 year-old girl and 1 year-old boy
    Report Reply
  • tamarar5tamarar5 member
    I'm not saying it's my go-to baby containing device, or that I would do it... but E just spent the entire morning playing on my Brother in law's dog crate. Lol. He thinks it's fascinating (door was open). C even likes to play in one. It's kind of funny. She was begging Uncle M to lock them inside...

    But I wouldn't ever do it long term (though I threaten jokingly all the time). I guess I agree on the WTF, but I still found it funny.
                    We're Going to be a Family of 5!

    Lilypie - (PaHE) Lilypie - (4noI)

                                   Lilypie - (2q9u)


    Report Reply
  • kelly321kelly321 member
    I'm with those who say - eh, same concept as a PNP. I also remember voluntarily crawling and playing in dog cages when I was small and thinking it was loads of fun. We don't have a dog or a cage now, so obviously it has never crossed my mind to use it as a PnP (plus we had a playpen, which again - same concept, but wood instead of metal), but if I saw someone doing it at a yard sale, I would probably just smile and, if the baby seemed happy playing there, not give it another thought or even mention it to anyone because, well, what's the story there? "So today I saw this toddler in a dog cage playing happily." shrug. But I also understand how some people would think it was strange. Calling CPS, though? Sorry, I think that's way overboard.

    BFP1: DD1 born April 2011 at 34w1d via unplanned c/s due to HELLP, DVT 1 week PP
    BFP2: 3/18/12, blighted ovum, natural m/c @ 7w4d
    BFP3: DD2 born Feb 2013 at 38w4d via unplanned RCS due to uterine dehiscence

    Report Reply
  • jesuisfatigueejesuisfatiguee member
    TamaraR4 said:
    I'm not saying it's my go-to baby containing device, or that I would do it... but E just spent the entire morning playing on my Brother in law's dog crate. Lol. He thinks it's fascinating (door was open). C even likes to play in one. It's kind of funny. She was begging Uncle M to lock them inside… 

    But I wouldn't ever do it long term (though I threaten jokingly all the time). I guess I agree on the WTF, but I still found it funny.
    I think this is different, though. The fact that an adult consciously put the baby in the cage and closed the gate (most of which have strong latching systems) is what makes me pearl-clutchy. 

    There are scant situations where this might be acceptable (think dire situations involving life/death consequences, idk), but a yard sale is not one of them. 



    image
    image

    Report Reply
  • tamarar5tamarar5 member
    je+suis=fatiguee said:


    TamaraR4 said:

    I'm not saying it's my go-to baby containing device, or that I would do it... but E just spent the entire morning playing on my Brother in law's dog crate. Lol. He thinks it's fascinating (door was open). C even likes to play in one. It's kind of funny. She was begging Uncle M to lock them inside… 

    But I wouldn't ever do it long term (though I threaten jokingly all the time). I guess I agree on the WTF, but I still found it funny.

    I think this is different, though. The fact that an adult consciously put the baby in the cage and closed the gate (most of which have strong latching systems) is what makes me pearl-clutchy. 

    There are scant situations where this might be acceptable (think dire situations involving life/death consequences, idk), but a yard sale is not one of them. 


    You are right, but it still made me laugh. ;)
                    We're Going to be a Family of 5!

    Lilypie - (PaHE) Lilypie - (4noI)

                                   Lilypie - (2q9u)


    Report Reply
  • wifeofadamwifeofadam member
    Is there a difference between a dog kennel and a dog cage. I'm imagining one of the metal ones that is large and is open on all sides.  We had one for our bull terrier and my kids loved to climb all over in it. 

    A kennel to me is one of those plasticy ones that only has air holes on the sides and front.  They are meant for travel.

    I only approve of the cage option ;)
        
    Report Reply
  • kleigh926kleigh926 member
    It was not a kennel/crate. It was a large wire cage, probably about the size of a PNP. There were no closed plastic sides, it was all open so you could easily see the child. I think calling CPS is a little over the top and I don't think I would do it, but I can see how people would lean that direction especially not knowing them. I just think it was a very bad judgment call.
    PCOS with long, irregular cycles
    First round of Clomid in May 2012= BFP #1, DD born January 2013 
    BFP #2 in January 2014, DS born September 2014

    image


    image
    View Full Size Image     View Full Size Image   

    Report Reply
  • jesuisfatigueejesuisfatiguee member
    Something like this is what I'm picturing. I do not consider this appropriate baby-containment. 

    image

    I would have to carefully assess the situation before a call to CPS. Obviously if everyone was happy and the baby was not fussing or seem otherwise neglected, then I would not call. I am loath to make those calls anyway. The sight would haunt me for a long time to come, though, and I would always wonder if the baby was truly ok. I am not trying to be "that guy," but stories friends and fellow abuse survivors have told about cages and dog kennels being used... I just can't get on board with "this is an ok idea" regardless of how nurturing, loving and well-intended the caregivers are. It's still a literal cage, and completely inappropriate. They made a bad call. Cages are not for babies. 

    I never liked having DS in a PnP or crib, either, so there's that. I recognize it's a completely personal hangup, so I don't judge those who do use them. I think one main difference for me is the padding and soft materials used in both of those structures, rather than hard wire or metal. 



    image
    image

    Report Reply
  • a13049a13049 member
    It would seem I am in the minority here, but I would probably call cps. As teachers, we are taught if something does look/feel right that it is not our job to asses the situation or further investigate, it is our job to call. We are quick to call, even if it means just getting a situation documented. Lots of times this pans out to be nothing, a quick visit to a little ones home or two second interview with a child to get the full story. However, we have found times in our building where a few "nothing" or "nbd" incidents that ended up putting some major pieces for he puzzle together and we have found some horrific situations out from them. So, I do call and I won't feel bad about it. If it is nothing then cps will make a note of it and be on their way.

     

     

     

    Report Reply
  • a13049a13049 member
    @pinesnow said it. I am a mandated reporter and this I would have no choice. I don't get to judge or decide if it is really okay or not. A child in a cage would require me to make the phone call or I could be looking a issues with my job/liscence. Who's to say that isn't the first time this child has been put in this cage, or the last.

    You can be mad about how easy some people are to call cps but it always gets flipped when someone doesn't call. Then The news stories are all, why didn't someone do something, all the signs were there. At the very least it creates documentation. I have seen and reported to many small thing a that have led to horror and newsworthy situations for my students and I will always error on the side of protecting the child.

     

     

     

    Report Reply
  • Puck1182Puck1182 member
    I guess my thinking is that if it was something that looked weird but otherwise innocuous, I'd be equally concerned about the kid getting put in foster care unnecessarily and experiencing abuse THERE. So if I saw something happen with a total stranger that I know literally nothing about, I'd better be damned sure I have a good reason to call CPS, and it's not going to be based on something with a different name that is functionally the same.

    Granted I am saying this from the perspective of someone with an anxiety disorder. If CPS got called on me, even if I 100% knew they had no reason to take my child, I'd still be a vomiting mess and completely unable to eat, and I'd probably also have terrible diarrhea (TMI? Oh well.). So I would not be quick to put another parent through that, even though I know my reaction is colored by my own anxiety problems.


    image
    Report Reply
  • a13049a13049 member
    Ok, I get that the idea of a cps report can be daunting to many. But being familiar with what happens when a report is made makes me a lot less wary to call. A call about a cage would not end up in the kid getting put I to foster care. The call would be documented, in missouri is would be labeled a level 3 which means non emergency non threatening. A cos worker would make contact with the family and arrange a visit. The visit would say, a report of xyz was made. Even if the family was all yes it happens we thought it was safer than letting our kid into the street. The cps worker would say ok, well let's try to find another alternative next time. They would ask to see the child, this doesn't mean a full body can or anything, it can be as simple as the child waving out the window and the cos worker never actually coming into the home. Then the cps worker would say have a nice day. If nothing ever happened again then nothing more would ever happen. You don't know though, if that was the third call and that was the one that triggered a home check and the home check found serious signs of abuse and neglect then yes, something would happen from the call. Kids aren't just ripped from their homes and out mistakenly into abusive foster homes. IMO we give a lot of parents way to May chances and children loose their lives because of it.

     

     

     

    Report Reply
  • wifeofadamwifeofadam member
    edited June 2014
    Once again, it must be a rural vs. city thing, because I often allow my boys to go pee on a tree if we're playing outside (at our old house where no one could see in our back yard or if we're at the grandparents' houses where they have woods).  I figure it's the perk of having a little boy.  They are hellish to potty train, but easy to accommodate when they have to pee and you're outside. :\">

    And yes, I think it's a big deal to get CPS involved in someone's life unnecessarily.  Maybe it's my rural upbringing where we're told to mind our own business. 

    They tried to introduce a bill in Ohio last December that would require all homeschooling families to undergo a CPS investigation before they are allowed to homeschool.  The bill didn't pass, but needless to say, I'm not OK with CPS knocking on my door and interviewing my children/planting seeds in their minds about the authority of their parents.  Stay out of my business.

    The same for fellow homebirthers who have had to deal with CPS after being transferred to the hospital, simply because they chose to give birth at home. 

    I just don't get harassing good parents for no reason.  Once again, here where I live we're more mind your own business.
        
    Report Reply
  • a13049a13049 member
    JRomeH said:

    Those that would call CPS, I'm curious to know, what would you say to describe the situation? OP described the situation as adults being around, blanket lining cage, toys inside, and no screaming child.

    Would you say potential neglect, or endangerment? I'm genuinely curious about the wording "you" would choose when reporting.

    As the reporter you don't say or classify the situation in anyway. You say just the facts as you see it. You aren't ask to make any judgement or inferabce a about the situation. Further more, we are warned about doing any further questioning or investigating on our own. We report what we see and nothing more.

     

     

     

    Report Reply
  • wifeofadamwifeofadam member
    I should clarify that I don't own a dog cage anymore either, in case anyone was trying to use their Google skills to find me and contact local CPS :P

    I'm on team "Do what you need to do to keep your kids safe".  If all you have is a dog cage and the alternative is a kid running around and into the street, use the cage.  If you need a leash, use the leash.  Crib tent.  PNP.  Whatever.  Heck, I've been known to put my toddlers in the Ergo on my back just to contain them, because I know a straight jacket would probably be frowned upon.  lol
        
    Report Reply
  • wifeofadamwifeofadam member
    @expatmama

    As far as respect goes, I get what you're saying, but I also feel like respect is such a subjective thing when you're talking about kids.  A toddler being in a cage has no sense of shame.  It would be disrespectful to put a child in the cage when it causes them shame or makes them feel disrespected, but a toddler has no clue.  To me it all has to do with intent.  Is the intent to keep them safe or to punish them?  That's a very different thing.  Putting a child in a cage with the intent of punishing and disrespecting them, to send the message that they are an animal, is completely abusive and unacceptable.
        
    Report Reply
  • a13049a13049 member
    I get what you are saying adamwife. For me, it's a cover your but situation too. Situations arise and people say a13049 was here and saw nothing wrong with it. Then I'm in big trouble, because I am not supposed to make decide if it is okay in this situation. I have made contact with cps where nothing became of it besides a report. I think they let the parent know a report has been made, but they are choosing not to further investigate at this time. I would think 90% of our calls don't end in a lot more than documentation, a home visit and maybe some counseling if thy feel like depression, drugs or angry problems are involved. If I was a non teacher and I was shopping at the garage sale, I sure as he'll would side I the fuck out if it, but most likely I wouldn't call if everything else is on the up and up. As a teacher I don't have a choice

     

     

     

    Report Reply
  • Puck1182Puck1182 member
    @a13049‌ I'm actually a little bit confused, because if you aren't supposed to evaluate a situation, then how do you even determine when to call? Like, do you have a really specific list of things that you're supposed to call about? Because things seeming "off" is so subjective. What's off to one person may totally look normal to another. I mean, I'm assuming there's some sort of training or specific guidelines for what's reportable?

    Beyond that, I keep thinking that my parents would been fucked SO HARD by mandated reporting. I was (and still am) a clumsy tomboy who bruises easily. And at one point I had such a high metabolism that I was significantly underweight. Without context or some sort of judgment call, CPS would probably been called on them every single school day. :-/


    image
    Report Reply
  • ally2011ally2011 member
    DC2London said:
    luxannie said:
    Am I the only one whose child would have never consented to being locked up - PNP, dog cage or otherwise? Dude is high maintenance...
    Considering what I have to do to coax him into his car seat, I can't fathom a cage going over very well.

    Not trying to sound snarky at all, but I don't understand this.....my dd flips out plenty when I put her in her car seat....but she's 15 months old so I just put her in there.....not sure I understand why coaxing is needed?

    We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013.  We love her to pieces.  

    We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011.  She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.


    Report Reply
  • jesuisfatigueejesuisfatiguee member
    ally2011 said:
    DC2London said:
    luxannie said:
    Am I the only one whose child would have never consented to being locked up - PNP, dog cage or otherwise? Dude is high maintenance...
    Considering what I have to do to coax him into his car seat, I can't fathom a cage going over very well.

    Not trying to sound snarky at all, but I don't understand this.....my dd flips out plenty when I put her in her car seat....but she's 15 months old so I just put her in there.....not sure I understand why coaxing is needed?
    Because it's a gentle way of dealing with the situation, is my guess. I coax DS to do all kinds of things that I could theoretically just make him do. 



    image
    image

    Report Reply
  • a13049a13049 member
    Puck1182 said:

    @a13049‌ I'm actually a little bit confused, because if you aren't supposed to evaluate a situation, then how do you even determine when to call? Like, do you have a really specific list of things that you're supposed to call about? Because things seeming "off" is so subjective. What's off to one person may totally look normal to another. I mean, I'm assuming there's some sort of training or specific guidelines for what's reportable?

    Beyond that, I keep thinking that my parents would been fucked SO HARD by mandated reporting. I was (and still am) a clumsy tomboy who bruises easily. And at one point I had such a high metabolism that I was significantly underweight. Without context or some sort of judgment call, CPS would probably been called on them every single school day. :-/

    Yes, we go through proffessinal development to give us an idea. They also train us to error on the side of reporting verse not reporting. By not passing judgement, I guess I mean I don't get to loom at the cage situation and judge this situation is okay because xyz and this situation is not because xyz. Children is cages are not okay. A clumsy or active child with lots of boo boos isn't something to ever worry about. We have lots of crazy boys and girls and lots of clumsy ones too. However if we have students hiding their owies or have a lot of unexplainable marks or a story that doesn't make sense. We call not because we jump to the conclusion that abuse has been taken place, but so that the situation can be assessed and evaluated appropriately. The report process is just as much about protecting the parents right, protecting the child's privacy and making sure that the investigation is done properly so that leading questions are asked.

    An example, we had two seperate kiddos in our school this year who were wearing the same dresses day after day after day. This was something we reported. When the sfs worker talked to the first girl we just found out the the girl like the dress so much she wore it over and over and her mom found it easier to wash the stinkin thing evey night instead of fight her over it. Nbd, I wouldn't allow tori to do that, but in the same respect it's a fair parenting choice and not abuse or neglect. The second girl we found out they were hiding in their car from an abuse boyfriend (abusing mom not kid) She wasn't eating well and when added with another report by oyer cautodian we found out she was sneaking door home I her back pack. Because of this we were able to partner with her mom and get them resources to help and protect them. The call was never made to tear the family apart and sometimes it is difficult for families to ask for help.

    I only put this because the intention of most dad's calls are not to remove children from their homes but to protect their overall well being.

     

     

     

    Report Reply
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards
"
"