The issue with how you address him is that you are further ostracizing him from your family. You are referring to him as "SIL's son" when that alone makes him your nephew. But, just like at parties, you want to remove yourself so much from him that you won't even give him the title of being a member of your family. Which he is. Would you like your MIL referring to you as "my son's wife" or do you prefer (and feel more like a family member) when you are addressed as "daughter-in-law"? The way you refuse to name him as a part of your family further highlights your lack of empathy towards him.
And if you really aren't BSing us and he truly is the child of 2 current addicts, it's even more disgusting that you insist on washing your hands of this child who - as you claim - needs a caring adult in his life. Instead of looking down your nose at this situation, be an adult. Step in. Help. He is a human being. A child.
As for what you said about special needs parents? Fuck you. Really. Fuck you.
You all feel strongly that I owe her an apology for being honest...correct. Because none of you have ever been told something truthful maybe even brutally honest before. You all live in a world of candy and sunshine right?
No but I do live in a world where being brutally honest is generally frowned upon. There's being honest and then there is being hurtful. You were unnecessarily hurtful.
Some of you have even said that a little white lie is what I should have said instead of tell her how I feel and maybe having the opportunity to discuss why I am concerned. But no I should have made up some sugar coated BS to make her feel better about herself.
I feel that you get more bees with honey. If you are truly that concerned then the way y*+
ou handled this is only going to make her less likely to listen.
It seems to me that mothers of special needs kids feel they are they only ones in life struggling with life issues and that everyone should just bend over to accommodate you and your child's needs yes because you are the only ones out there in the world that has it rough in life.
No we don't but we have BTDT and know that things aren't always as they appear and that our kiddos come with very different needs and we love our kids and feel they are entitled to the same love and acceptance any other child gets.
Also it seems that because you all are the only ones out there roughing it, we should all just lie straight to your face so that you can continue to believe everything is grand, right. this is what I am hearing.
Again not lying. just expecting a little understanding and empathy for the fact that we live very different lives.
The fact that you choose to focus on how I address him is odd, why do you care what does it have of any concern with the direct question I asked. Nothing
Why do you care who she is married to or how she is even related, this again had nothing to do with the question I asked.
How you address him is a huge indication of how you view him, which as other and separate from the family.
In my last post, I was not BSing is it really hard to actually believe that some parents just cannot handle/parent a special needs child. Just because you gave birth to a special needs child does not automatically mentally prepared or make you able to deal with all that comes with parenting one.
No parent is prepared to deal with a SN's child, we learn as we go. Sometimes that means we make mistakes or don't handle things the ideal way. But we are all doing our absolute best for our kiddos.
Why do you even give a crap what family member she lives with, what does that have anything to do with the question I asked, again your focusing on unnecessary information.
Just trying to understand the dynamics and the situation so we have a fuller picture.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Are you serious?! There is no way this isn't MUD. I mean, you came to a special needs board asking advice. You got it and didn't like it. Now everyone here that took the time to give thoughtful advice is mean and doesn't get it?
Whatever. Watch out for the karma bus because after having such horrible opinions it's coming for you.
Enough with the ad hominem attacks. And the assumption that the child's mother is actually getting her son any therapy. And what if she isn't intervening at all when her child may be acting aggressively towards other family members?
Enough with the ad hominem attacks. And the assumption that the child's mother is actually getting her son any therapy. And what if she isn't intervening at all when her child may be acting aggressively towards other family members?
If he is in a self contained classroom he is getting therapies, that is a certainty. They don't put kids in self contained for s&g's it's so they can provide the therapy and help the kids need.
Not reacting to negative behavior is a pretty standard ABA tactic, kids on the spectrum can struggle to differentiate positive and negative attention so often ignoring a negative behavior and praising a good one works more effectively then giving attention to the bad behavior.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Sadly, a self-contained placement does not mean a parent is involved, or following through on any therapies provided by the school, or even conversant with the details of the child's IEP. I am shocked at the number of parents I've encountered who cannot articulate the services listed on an IEP. Also, I am familiar with the principles of behavior therapy but ignoring behavior that is potentially harmful to others is not acceptable. If my son, who is 4 (he is deaf), hits a child on the playground in a bid for attention, I still remove him.
Sadly, a self-contained placement does not mean a parent is involved, or following through on any therapies provided by the school, or even conversant with the details of the child's IEP. I am shocked at the number of parents I've encountered who cannot articulate the services listed on an IEP.
Also, I am familiar with the principles of behavior therapy but ignoring behavior that is potentially harmful to others is not acceptable. If my son, who is 4 (he is deaf), hits a child on the playground in a bid for attention, I still remove him.
No it doesn't but that doesn't = not getting him therapy either.
Then you should know that how it is approached with NT kids (like your son) is different then how it is approached with kids on the spectrum due to what they can process/understand and what is typically most effective.
Also intervening when a ASD kid is acting out can cause them to react even more aggressively, she may know that if she tries to do something it will only make him more violent.
Regardless of that what the OP said was mean and she should have handled it better. The mom's behavior and the OP's behavior are 2 separate issues and by joining them the OP has lost credibility here and with the Mom in question.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
FYI, DS isn't necessarily NT even though he does not have ASD. He has hypoplasia or partial agenesis of the corpus callosum. We have also done some behavior therapy to address attention seeking behavior. In my mind, the parent of any child who is acting in a manner that is potentially injurious to others (especially younger children) has an absolute duty to address the behavior. That may require removing the child from the situation.
Even if the mom isn't involved or properly handling the aggression, it doesn't excuse OP refusing to acknowledge he is a human being and claiming he "isn't there". If mom is so horrible, why doesn't OP get involved and advocate for her nephew? That's what any decent person would do in this situation. Not treat the boy like a leper.
OP's complete disregard for this boy leads me to think that she doesn't know how involved/uninvolved mom really is. She's just trying to cover her previous comments to make herself look better.
Even if the mom isn't involved or properly handling the aggression, it doesn't excuse OP refusing to acknowledge he is a human being and claiming he "isn't there". If mom is so horrible, why doesn't OP get involved and advocate for her nephew? That's what any decent person would do in this situation. Not treat the boy like a leper.
OP's complete disregard for this boy leads me to think that she doesn't know how involved/uninvolved mom really is. She's just trying to cover her previous comments to make herself look better.
I don't see that she is treating him like a leper, and I don't think it's appropriate to suggest she, as a mother of almost 3, should intervene on his behalf. He is not her child. Period. And my point isn't to engage in ad hominem attacks of her, or judge anyone. I am simply saying a parent has a responsibility to ensure her child doesn't hurt other children.
All I wanted was to honest with her and share that I fear her sons behavior, I really dont know why this is so hard to understand. also no I do no feel it is my place to intervene this is not my child and I am not taking on the responsibility of him either. I just want her to understand that yes I acknowledge the fact that what I am say comes off as harsh BUT you cannot just ignore this is a big issue and needs to be addressed weather yu like it or not. I cannot just stand back and say well its ok for him to try and attack the other kids in the family because he has ASD we should all just take a little abuse from him because that is the right thing to do...seriously I just do not get where parents of ASD children get off thinking we should just allow violent behavior. How can I as a parent just stand back and allow anyone to do this to one of my children or any of the other children and not say anything. Because you cant take the harsh reality of someone telling the truth so you want everyone to just hold your hand and tell you everything will be ok ALL THE TIME????
@thefuturemrskudla OP is insinuating that the child's comes from an abusive/neglectful home. I don't care if she has 3 kids or 30. If she thinks the mother isn't adequately caring for the child, she has a moral obligation to intervene.
OP: Stay away from the boy then if its so horrible to be around him. Problem solved. I'm not sure what else you are wanting from us.
seriously I just do not get where parents of ASD children get off thinking we should just allow violent behavior. How can I as a parent just stand back and allow anyone to do this to one of my children or any of the other children and not say anything. Because you cant take the harsh reality of someone telling the truth so you want everyone to just hold your hand and tell you everything will be ok ALL THE TIME????
I am understating when I say this reply is a bit histrionic and a lot combative. Also, most children with ASD are not violent, and none of us on this board want you to hold our hands.
I need some guidance, my SIL has a 14yr autistic son, we were at a family get together and a cousin who just recently had her baby a month ago was also attending. She was wearing her baby and when people asked to hold her baby she in a nice way said she would prefer for the baby's safety to just wear her. Everyone including myself completely understood as SIL son is very unpredictable and we have had issues with him and little children as he would pick them up and drop them or just bump into them unknowing of course but knock them over and they would get hurt. He is a lot bigger and when he gets excited he has started pushing people. So SIL asked me (34wks preg) if I had planned on wearing my baby when her son was around, I said to her well to be honest yes I do plan on it. She got so upset with me and everyone and started yelling that we dont like her son and how hurtful it is for her to hear that people dont want to be around him. Which is not what we said we are only thinking of the safety of the little kids who are afraid of him, but my question is now what do I say to her to assure her that its not that we do not want to be around her son but just want to protect ours??
The bolded part of your original post makes it sound like he is rough without really meaning to be, not violent. And you seemed like you wanted to smooth things over with your SIL. That doesn't really seem to be the case now. Please stop with the inflammatory comments.
You all feel strongly that I owe her an apology for being honest...correct. Because none of you have ever been told something truthful maybe even brutally honest before. You all live in a world of candy and sunshine right?
Some of you have even said that a little white lie is what I should have said instead of tell her how I feel and maybe having the opportunity to discuss why I am concerned. But no I should have made up some sugar coated BS to make her feel better about herself.
It seems to me that mothers of special needs kids feel they are they only ones in life struggling with life issues and that everyone should just bend over to accommodate you and your child's needs yes because you are the only ones out there in the world that has it rough in life.
Also it seems that because you all are the only ones out there roughing it, we should all just lie straight to your face so that you can continue to believe everything is grand, right. this is what I am hearing.
The fact that you choose to focus on how I address him is odd, why do you care what does it have of any concern with the direct question I asked. Nothing
Why do you care who she is married to or how she is even related, this again had nothing to do with the question I asked.
In my last post, I was not BSing is it really hard to actually believe that some parents just cannot handle/parent a special needs child. Just because you gave birth to a special needs child does not automatically mentally prepared or make you able to deal with all that comes with parenting one.
Why do you even give a crap what family member she lives with, what does that have anything to do with the question I asked, again your focusing on unnecessary information.
It sucks for you that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. No one is saying that you should bend over backwards or not protect your children. There's just a little thing called tact. Since you're so brutally honest, I'm sure you go around telling family members their food is over cooked or that they're looking tubby since they put on a few pounds, right? It wasn't a white lie--certainly you plan on babywearing for other reasons besides your nephew, no?
Posting this from Diary of a Mom (I don't agree 100% with all of her posts but this one is too appropriate to not share)
Luau and I started watching The Normal Heart over the weekend. It’s an incredible movie and one that I highly recommend, particularly if you’re not old enough to have been socially or politically conscious through the early eighties. The movie is a small screen adaptation of the play by the same name by Larry Kramer. Kramer, a gay activist / agitator / revolutionary, co-founded Gay Men’s Health Crisis in 1982, as AIDS (then known as the “gay cancer”) began to emerge, spread, and kill with terrifying speed.
Mark Ruffalo is stunning as the fiery Ned Weeks, based not the least bit loosely on Kramer. Almost too good, in fact. To be honest, I was relieved when I had to walk away from the movie to pick Katie up at a friend’s bar mitzvah. I needed the two-day break before I could pick it up again. It’s not easy to watch – to feel the frustration and desperation emanating from the screen as these men fight for their friends, their lovers, their lives.
The fight, while obviously foreign in some very important ways, felt eerily familiar in others. At its core, it was a fight for help whose basis was to be found in a quest for respect, for dignity, for the recognition of humanity, of equality, of the most fundamental human and civil rights.
In one particularly compelling scene, Ned gets into a shouting match with his older brother, Ben, who supports him in every respect except the one he needs the most. The conversation that they had was a watershed moment for me. This is how it went.
Ben: We have a difference of opinion over theory.
Ned: Your theory turns me into a man from Mars. My theory doesn’t do that to you.
Ben: Are you suggesting that I did something wrong in sending you to therapy so young? I didn’t know you were going to stay there forever.
Ned: I didn’t think I’d done anything wrong until you sent me there. You mean more to me than anyone in the whole world. You always have. And you’ve got to say it.
Ben: Say what?
Ned: I’m the same as you. Just say it. Say it.
Ben: No. you’re not. I’m not gonna say it.
Ned: Every time I lose this fight it just hurts more. I’m going home.
Ben: Oh, c’mon, Lemon, I still love you. Sarah still loves you. The cat still loves you.
Ned: This is not a joke.
Ben: You have my love. My legal advice. My financial supervision. I can’t give you the courage to stand up to me and say you don’t give a flying f*ck about what I think. Everybody’s impressed by somebody else in some form or another. Most of us learn to fight against it despite people’s opinions without the help of others. Now stop trying to wring some kind of admission of guilt out of me. Agreeing that you were born just the same as I was born isn’t going to save your dying friends.
Ned: That is EXACTLY what is going to save my dying friends.
Ben: You make it sound like I’m the enemy.
Ned: I am beginning to think that you and your straight world are our enemy. I am furious with you. And every God damn doctor who made me feel it was sick to love a man. I am trying to understand why nobody gives a sh-t that we’re dying. Five million dollars for a house; we can’t even get twenty-seven cents from the city. I know forty-three guys who have died and you say it’s my cause, not yours? You still think I’m sick. I simply cannot allow it for one single second longer. I will not speak to you again until you accept me as your equal. Your healthy equal. Your brother.
People often ask why, if I’m as concerned about safety as I am, I share pictures of our family online. They wonder why I tell our silly stories of screwing up and cracking up and laughing at each other and ourselves. They ask why I share so many things that have nothing to do with autism.
My answer is because we are human first. All of us. We’re funny and silly and happy and scared and proud and anxious and insecure and frustrated and hopeful and cynical and madly in love with and annoyed at and proud of and delighted in each other and the world. Because we look just like you (though maybe our skin color is different or we’re shorter or taller or whatever-er, but if you look, really look. I promise you’ll be able to see something familiar.)
In response to a reader who once asked why I chose to share photos of the girls, I wrote, “In the end, though, I think that it’s the three-dimensional people – the beautiful faces that look just like anyone else’s beautiful-faced kids, that make our story relatable to some who might not otherwise be bothered – who might find it easier to dismiss it without the ‘No, we really are real people who look startlingly like you’ aspect.”
We are REAL, INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. All of us. Me, Luau, Katie and Brooke. And until we are ALL seen as such, rather than three people whose life is affected by the autism of the fourth, nothing will really, truly change.
Because no one is going to willingly join us in creating an inclusive society until they realize that they ARE us. And that we are them. Not just that they can relate to us because they could have or might someday have a child like mine, but that they themselves are just like my child. Her, not me. And that they are like her because as people, while we may come in different genders, colors, shapes, sizes, sexual orientations, and neurological makeups, among myriad other modifiers, we are people first. And whatever fundamental differences we may have from one another aside, we are far, far more fundamentally the same than different. If we are to affect real change, then that’s the part that matters. It mattered to Ned because he saw the hard truth that it’s the only foundation upon which any effective advocacy can stand – seeing, knowing, understanding, recognizing, FEELING that we are, underneath it all, all the same. You, me, Luau, Katie, Brooke … We are people before we are anything else.
Until potential allies, like Ben, believe in our sameness, they might deign to offer their financial support, they might underwrite paper efforts to make change, but they will never give what matters most, the only true vehicle of social progress - their hearts.
This is why I will not participate in the kind of advocacy which relies upon pity for me by virtue of being my daughter’s mother to raise money to (theoretically) help her. Because that kind of thinking will never allow HER to be seen as she is – disabled in some ways, but not sick; different, but no less human than me or anyone else; EQUAL to anyone she encounters. And, simply by virtue of her humanity, as deserving of compassion as she is capable of participating in every aspect of society in her own complicated, messy, beautiful way.
Re: Help talking to a mom of Autistic Son
And if you really aren't BSing us and he truly is the child of 2 current addicts, it's even more disgusting that you insist on washing your hands of this child who - as you claim - needs a caring adult in his life. Instead of looking down your nose at this situation, be an adult. Step in. Help. He is a human being. A child.
As for what you said about special needs parents? Fuck you. Really. Fuck you.
Are you serious?! There is no way this isn't MUD. I mean, you came to a special needs board asking advice. You got it and didn't like it. Now everyone here that took the time to give thoughtful advice is mean and doesn't get it?
Whatever. Watch out for the karma bus because after having such horrible opinions it's coming for you.
Also, I am familiar with the principles of behavior therapy but ignoring behavior that is potentially harmful to others is not acceptable. If my son, who is 4 (he is deaf), hits a child on the playground in a bid for attention, I still remove him.
In my mind, the parent of any child who is acting in a manner that is potentially injurious to others (especially younger children) has an absolute duty to address the behavior. That may require removing the child from the situation.
OP's complete disregard for this boy leads me to think that she doesn't know how involved/uninvolved mom really is. She's just trying to cover her previous comments to make herself look better.
You ALREADY let her know you feel her child is a danger to others. It cannot be unsaid at this point.
It's time to decide how and if you want to repair the relationship. Good Luck.
OP: Stay away from the boy then if its so horrible to be around him. Problem solved. I'm not sure what else you are wanting from us.
It sucks for you that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. No one is saying that you should bend over backwards or not protect your children. There's just a little thing called tact. Since you're so brutally honest, I'm sure you go around telling family members their food is over cooked or that they're looking tubby since they put on a few pounds, right? It wasn't a white lie--certainly you plan on babywearing for other reasons besides your nephew, no?
Luau and I started watching The Normal Heart over the weekend. It’s an incredible movie and one that I highly recommend, particularly if you’re not old enough to have been socially or politically conscious through the early eighties. The movie is a small screen adaptation of the play by the same name by Larry Kramer. Kramer, a gay activist / agitator / revolutionary, co-founded Gay Men’s Health Crisis in 1982, as AIDS (then known as the “gay cancer”) began to emerge, spread, and kill with terrifying speed.
Mark Ruffalo is stunning as the fiery Ned Weeks, based not the least bit loosely on Kramer. Almost too good, in fact. To be honest, I was relieved when I had to walk away from the movie to pick Katie up at a friend’s bar mitzvah. I needed the two-day break before I could pick it up again. It’s not easy to watch – to feel the frustration and desperation emanating from the screen as these men fight for their friends, their lovers, their lives.
The fight, while obviously foreign in some very important ways, felt eerily familiar in others. At its core, it was a fight for help whose basis was to be found in a quest for respect, for dignity, for the recognition of humanity, of equality, of the most fundamental human and civil rights.
In one particularly compelling scene, Ned gets into a shouting match with his older brother, Ben, who supports him in every respect except the one he needs the most. The conversation that they had was a watershed moment for me. This is how it went.
People often ask why, if I’m as concerned about safety as I am, I share pictures of our family online. They wonder why I tell our silly stories of screwing up and cracking up and laughing at each other and ourselves. They ask why I share so many things that have nothing to do with autism.
My answer is because we are human first. All of us. We’re funny and silly and happy and scared and proud and anxious and insecure and frustrated and hopeful and cynical and madly in love with and annoyed at and proud of and delighted in each other and the world. Because we look just like you (though maybe our skin color is different or we’re shorter or taller or whatever-er, but if you look, really look. I promise you’ll be able to see something familiar.)
In response to a reader who once asked why I chose to share photos of the girls, I wrote, “In the end, though, I think that it’s the three-dimensional people – the beautiful faces that look just like anyone else’s beautiful-faced kids, that make our story relatable to some who might not otherwise be bothered – who might find it easier to dismiss it without the ‘No, we really are real people who look startlingly like you’ aspect.”
We are REAL, INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. All of us. Me, Luau, Katie and Brooke. And until we are ALL seen as such, rather than three people whose life is affected by the autism of the fourth, nothing will really, truly change.
Because no one is going to willingly join us in creating an inclusive society until they realize that they ARE us. And that we are them. Not just that they can relate to us because they could have or might someday have a child like mine, but that they themselves are just like my child. Her, not me. And that they are like her because as people, while we may come in different genders, colors, shapes, sizes, sexual orientations, and neurological makeups, among myriad other modifiers, we are people first. And whatever fundamental differences we may have from one another aside, we are far, far more fundamentally the same than different. If we are to affect real change, then that’s the part that matters. It mattered to Ned because he saw the hard truth that it’s the only foundation upon which any effective advocacy can stand – seeing, knowing, understanding, recognizing, FEELING that we are, underneath it all, all the same. You, me, Luau, Katie, Brooke … We are people before we are anything else.
Until potential allies, like Ben, believe in our sameness, they might deign to offer their financial support, they might underwrite paper efforts to make change, but they will never give what matters most, the only true vehicle of social progress - their hearts.
This is why I will not participate in the kind of advocacy which relies upon pity for me by virtue of being my daughter’s mother to raise money to (theoretically) help her. Because that kind of thinking will never allow HER to be seen as she is – disabled in some ways, but not sick; different, but no less human than me or anyone else; EQUAL to anyone she encounters. And, simply by virtue of her humanity, as deserving of compassion as she is capable of participating in every aspect of society in her own complicated, messy, beautiful way.
We are different.
We are the same.
We are human.
We are in this together.
That’s where change begins.
https://adiaryofamom.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/the-same/