Article:College is worth it

Andrewsgal · May 2014

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/27/upshot/is-college-worth-it-clearly-new-data-say.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1 I thought this was a very interesting article as this comes up a couple of times a year on this board.

And for full disclosure I love being right.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

Nope not surprising at all. But there are always those who argue how trade schools are just a as good. Seems not to be the case, not surprising but nice to have research and numbers to back up what I have been saying all along.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

cjcouple said:

Andrewsgal said:

Nope not surprising at all. But there are always those who argue how trade schools are just a as good. Seems not to be the case, not surprising but nice to have research and numbers to back up what I have been saying all along.

Yeah, I don't think trade is just as good BUT I do think trade can be a better fit for some people and is a very good alternative. It's still respectable IMO.

I agree it can be a better fit. However I think it's important to acknowledge that for the average person a college degree will be more beneficial in the end statistically speaking.

sschwege · May 2014

This is what I don't understand though, they say college graduates make more than those who don't graduate, but you are factoring in people who go in the direction of higher paying jobs. Doctors have to go to college right? So do lawyers.

What about a mechanic, does a college educated mechanic make more than a mechanic who did not go to college?

This is a legitimate question I hope someone can explain to me, not trying to start an argument...

sschwege · May 2014

My other question is, if everyone went to college, wouldn't it lose its value? From an earning standpoint of course, not from a personal growth one. The article writes about what a high school education is worth, when decades ago it was really worth something. Where do we go from there, now a bachelors degree is worth next to nothing and to maintain a middle-class lifestyle you must have multiple degrees?

I would really like to see better trade schools in this country.

sschwege · May 2014

Gastro said:

Not statistical but anecdotal - I'm a pastry chef and went to culinary school (trade school). I also went to a 4 year liberal arts college. I would say I made at least 3x the average pastry chef.

That's helpful. Reading your post reminded me of my Aunt who attended college, but didn't graduate. She worked as an aide at a daycare center. She had a lot of experience, but it didn't matter because she didn't have a degree she didn't make as much as an aide working there who had a degree in dance and very little daycare experience. Those are two good examples.

sschwege · May 2014

cjcouple said:

My other question is, if everyone went to college, wouldn't it lose its value? From an earning standpoint of course, not from a personal growth one. The article writes about what a high school education is worth, when decades ago it was really worth something. Where do we go from there, now a bachelors degree is worth next to nothing and to maintain a middle-class lifestyle you must have multiple degrees?

I would really like to see better trade schools in this country.
sadly lots of trades are becoming obsolete. (or will be in a decade) and years down the road they will have very little work. cars for example. the more electric they become the more obsolete a small time mechanic becomes. a little garage does not (nor can he even get) the machine or equipment to fix some of these new cars and therefore you must go to the dealer for repairs. millwork is now fabricated with a machine in a factory. more and more of these machines are also becoming robotic. what used to take a real craftsman time and skill to produce is now done without them. time and technology will only take more from craftsman etc. but the engineers who design these items will be at work. this skill does take a college degree.

That's scary when you think, are there going to even be enough jobs for everyone?

sschwege · May 2014

cjcouple said:

cjcouple said:

My other question is, if everyone went to college, wouldn't it lose its value? From an earning standpoint of course, not from a personal growth one. The article writes about what a high school education is worth, when decades ago it was really worth something. Where do we go from there, now a bachelors degree is worth next to nothing and to maintain a middle-class lifestyle you must have multiple degrees?

I would really like to see better trade schools in this country.
sadly lots of trades are becoming obsolete. (or will be in a decade) and years down the road they will have very little work. cars for example. the more electric they become the more obsolete a small time mechanic becomes. a little garage does not (nor can he even get) the machine or equipment to fix some of these new cars and therefore you must go to the dealer for repairs. millwork is now fabricated with a machine in a factory. more and more of these machines are also becoming robotic. what used to take a real craftsman time and skill to produce is now done without them. time and technology will only take more from craftsman etc. but the engineers who design these items will be at work. this skill does take a college degree.

That's scary when you think, are there going to even be enough jobs for everyone?
well I think we will adapt. you will always have tradesman but it will probably be more common to get a degree over a certificate. we will always need farmers, chefs, healthcare (this one will grow exponentially), teachers, engineer, scientists, law personnel and so on. there truly are areas of major growth. you just have to keep all this in mind when you mold your kids and guide them to an area of growth and stability. I don't think there is anything to be afraid of.

I read an article in Parents magazine a while back that talked about the importance of fostering children's creativity. The author(s) of this article argued that we don't know what the jobs of tomorrow will look like, so having creative people, ones who can think outside of the box will be a huge help to them. Thought that was interesting.

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

Meh, still not convincing me. Obviously on averages yes it pays more but stats mean crap on a personal level. I can tell you my dh made more at 18 with a high school diploma than my friend with a MSW does. There are plenty of Jobs in the trades/associate degree programs that rival or exceed the average college grad salary-- https://www.forbes.com/pictures/efkk45ejjhm/electrical-and-electronics-repairers-powerhouse-substation-and-relay/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/12/18/the-10-best-paying-jobs-for-community-college-grads/ I'd much rather my kid be a dental hygenist and make 70k than a social worker making $12 an hour with a degree if I had a choice. I also think quality of life is important. I'd rather my kid be poor, happy and doing work they're passionate about than to go to college just because that's what I wanted and be miserable in some job that happens to pay well.

rachie1019 · May 2014

I Heart The 80s said:
Flame me if you must…but I also know that I learned the most in college while doing things like living in a dorm, making friends, living away from my parents. In all honestly, that experience was probably equal to my degree. Truly. Of course, I majored in social work. Not the most high paying of majors…. :-S

I agree!! I learned many life leasons just being away from home and forced to make (fairly) important decisions myself, on a regular basis. I think it's crucial to your personal growth to live on your own, away from your parents, during the college years. I learned so much during that time.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

I Heart The 80s said:

Flame me if you must…but I also know that I learned the most in college while doing things like living in a dorm, making friends, living away from my parents. In all honestly, that experience was probably equal to my degree. Truly. Of course, I majored in social work. Not the most high paying of majors…. :-S

Yep I think you grown and learn more in college than any other time. This us without a doubt not something that can be replicated with trade school

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

Andrewsgal said:

I Heart The 80s said:

Flame me if you must…but I also know that I learned the most in college while doing things like living in a dorm, making friends, living away from my parents. In all honestly, that experience was probably equal to my degree. Truly. Of course, I majored in social work. Not the most high paying of majors…. :-S

Yep I think you grown and learn more in college than any other time. This us without a doubt not something that can be replicated with trade school

Not all college students live in a dorm. The kid in trade school can easily live in an apartment with a few friends as a college kid can.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

KC_13 said:

Andrewsgal said:

I Heart The 80s said:

Flame me if you must…but I also know that I learned the most in college while doing things like living in a dorm, making friends, living away from my parents. In all honestly, that experience was probably equal to my degree. Truly. Of course, I majored in social work. Not the most high paying of majors…. :-S

Yep I think you grown and learn more in college than any other time. This us without a doubt not something that can be replicated with trade school

Not all college students live in a dorm. The kid in trade school can easily live in an apartment with a few friends as a college kid can.

I said nothing about dorm living. College is way more than dorm loving way way more.

nosoup4u · May 2014

rachie1019 said:

I Heart The 80s said:
Flame me if you must…but I also know that I learned the most in college while doing things like living in a dorm, making friends, living away from my parents. In all honestly, that experience was probably equal to my degree. Truly. Of course, I majored in social work. Not the most high paying of majors…. :-S
I agree!! I learned many life leasons just being away from home and forced to make (fairly) important decisions myself, on a regular basis. I think it's crucial to your personal growth to live on your own, away from your parents, during the college years. I learned so much during that time.

Being a grown-up is being a grown-up. I learned a hell of a more about responsibility *after* college, when I was truly on my own and paying all the bills (my parents covered rent and tuition, and took out loans for tuition). I am LOLing at ppl thinking college life is in any way equivalent to a kid who grew up in poverty and had to find a job/figure out how to survive at a very young age. Book smarts vs. street smarts, I guess.

And I'm in total agreement that having a college degree is pretty much required to be able to get a decent job anymore. Just disagreeing that college is the be-all end-all eye-opening experience where one learns about life...

Andrewsgal · May 2014

nosoup4u said:

Flame me if you must…but I also know that I learned the most in college while doing things like living in a dorm, making friends, living away from my parents. In all honestly, that experience was probably equal to my degree. Truly. Of course, I majored in social work. Not the most high paying of majors…. :-S
I agree!! I learned many life leasons just being away from home and forced to make (fairly) important decisions myself, on a regular basis. I think it's crucial to your personal growth to live on your own, away from your parents, during the college years. I learned so much during that time.
Being a grown-up is being a grown-up. I learned a hell of a more about responsibility *after* college, when I was truly on my own and paying all the bills (my parents covered rent and tuition, and took out loans for tuition). I am LOLing at ppl thinking a college life is in any was equivalent to a kid who grew up in poverty and had to find a job/figure out how to survive at a very going age. Books smarts vs. street smarts, I guess. And I'm in total agreement that having a college degree is pretty much required to be able to get a decent job anymore. Just that college is the be all end all of learning about life.

you are such an extremist. No one said college is the only way to learn about life, but I very seriously doubt any middle class kid (which lets be honest is what we are talking about) is learning street smarts at ITT tech.

nosoup4u · May 2014

I'm pointing out the fact that only thinking about the middle class experience is really limiting. A white kid's experience at ITT is no way equivalent to a black or brown kid growing up on the south or southwest side of Chicago. Not even close.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

nosoup4u said:

I'm pointing out the fact that only thinking about the middle class experience is really limiting. A white kid's experience at ITT is no way equivalent to a black or brown kid growing up on the south or southwest side of Chicago. Not even close.

No one os disputing that. Right now we are speaking about our kids basically and none of them are growing up in poverty. I will go a step further to say that a child that goes to a local trade school gets less experience outside of the middle class bubble than someone who goes to college.

nosoup4u · May 2014

I don't think trade schools are for middle class kids, they certainly haven't been historically.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

nosoup4u said:

I don't think trade schools are for middle class kids, they certainly haven't been historically.

have you read the other replies? Obviously not. The point is KC always and I mean always argues how trade schools are just as good as college and she would be happy with her kids (her middle class kids) taking that route. That is where this discussion started. Trade schools are not cheap or easy to navigate I would say they are way more familiar to middle and lower middle class than the poor. In my experience the poor children I have taught don't end up in trade school.

nosoup4u · May 2014

30% of Americans have a Bachelor's degree, that's in no way the majority, even tho it's not necessarily the stats for this board.

dizzycooks · May 2014

I think it's safe to say most of our kids will probably go to college. Most of us went to college it seems. While I think college is important there are ways to do it that are cheaper and provide a quality experience. However, I think it's important to point out that college is not summer camp and despite long term earnings I really don't think it should be done solely for the experience. I know many who "experienced" college and have gone no where due to that "experience". If you are capable of buckling down and studying and selecting a major then college is a great choice, if not you might be better finding a job and coming back to college when your head is screwed on straight. I think we lose sight of that fact a job or trade degree might be beneficial for now and then maybe that person will return to college part time as they grow in their career/maturity (depending).

Andrewsgal · May 2014

nosoup4u said:

30% of Americans have a Bachelor's degree, that's in no way the majority, even tho it's not necessarily the stats for this board.

and? I am missing your point. Did I say the majority have college degrees? Seriously I feel like we are talking different points.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

My bottom line is this. Statically you have a better chance of earning a better salary with a college degree. I think you learn some very important life lessons in college that are very different than those that can be learned anywhere else. Trade school is a valid choice for some kids.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

amy052006 said:

KC_13 said:

Meh, still not convincing me. Obviously on averages yes it pays more but stats mean crap on a personal level. I can tell you my dh made more at 18 with a high school diploma than my friend with a MSW does. There are plenty of Jobs in the trades/associate degree programs that rival or exceed the average college grad salary-- https://www.forbes.com/pictures/efkk45ejjhm/electrical-and-electronics-repairers-powerhouse-substation-and-relay/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/12/18/the-10-best-paying-jobs-for-community-college-grads/ I'd much rather my kid be a dental hygenist and make 70k than a social worker making $12 an hour with a degree if I had a choice. I also think quality of life is important. I'd rather my kid be poor, happy and doing work they're passionate about than to go to college just because that's what I wanted and be miserable in some job that happens to pay well.

Well, I think that is shitty.

And I think underscores why college is so important for the overwhelming majority of kids -- it broadens their horizons and exposes them to new things. A regular good old liberal arts education -- I think it is pathetic it is so under valued by people. Absolutely trade schools fill and important role for a smaller cohort of kids who aren't cut out for more academically rigorous. But frankly, even if my kid wanted to be a plumber, at this point I'd still push college first, unless something suddenly changes in their abilities and development.

But no -- I would not prefer my kid spends their days scraping teeth with a flat fixed salary as opposed to being a social worker.

As usual Amy said it a lot better than I ever could have.

rosesandpetals · May 2014

cjcouple said:

You know, the thing about trade school is that kids are choosing it in place or traditional high school not in place or college. So these "kids" are choosing to go to a trade instead of college at 13/14 yo. How could they possibly know what they want at that age?

Nope. My kid will go to high school until 18 unless she graduates early. College may not be for everyone but high school is.

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

cjcouple said:

KC I am curious - Do you have a degree?

I am not being snarky at all but I do not have a degree and I have experienced the roadblocks of it.
I was very fortunate to have a high paying job as an Executive Assistant. I had started out as an entry level admin on a job site and worked my tail off to move up. I actually made more money at one point than my BFF who had a masters in Sp Ed. I

But even with my salary being high, it was also in Boston and my DH salary was not enough to be able to live closer to my work. So I had this horrendous commute. Finally it got to be too much. Guess where I landed after 10 years of experience and making great money?
Making $12 an hour at a bank. Then I found my current position. Although I make a decent salary and the commute is a lot more manageable it is still a good 25k lower than I used to make.

5 different companies had told me they went with a person who had similar experience but more education. One time, a school superintendent did say they went with a woman in their town whose kids went to their school so they felt she had better ties to the community so this one was not due to my education but most were.

I admit I also got a lot of "you're over qualified" as well. And I obviously can't say I would have gotten one of those position even if I had a degree but I do wish I stayed in college back then. Instead of being an admin now and actually doing the work of an Asst PM or an Engineer, and not getting the credit? I might be an Engineer or a PM, have a bigger salary plus potential job growth that is just not available to me.

I went to college and I can tell you it was the biggest waste of my parents money ever. I simply lacked the maturity at 17 years old and can tell you all I gained from it was how to type 100wpm, how to funnel wine in a Box, and how to give a presentation drunk midday. I wish my parents saw that and encouraged me to work a few years, figure out what I wanted to do and had some time to get the maturity to take it seriously. I'm not so much anti college as much as I am of the notion that they must attend immediately upon graduating high school. My dh is actually in school finishing up his CPA now and I'm very grateful he only earned an associates when he graduated high school and we weren't burdened with debt for a useless degree. I hope with my kids we sit and discuss where we want to go and how to get there.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

cjcouple said:
Well that is shame KC. You truly are the only person I have ever met that regretted college and getting a degree.

I agree. I think you underestimate the importance is education if you regret that education that and you probably went to a shitty college.

notkateanymore · May 2014

letranger said:

College is important. Bottom line. My husband didn't go makes good money but he'd be further in his job/company if he had a degree.

There is always somebody who says "Well my ::insert random family member:: has a great job and has no degree and she's worked there for 25 years" Yeah well when random family members loses job, not having a degree will work against them at some point bc in the last 25 years all the people doing their job have probably been out getting degrees.

notkateanymore · May 2014

KC_13 said:

cjcouple said:

KC I am curious - Do you have a degree?

I am not being snarky at all but I do not have a degree and I have experienced the roadblocks of it.
I was very fortunate to have a high paying job as an Executive Assistant. I had started out as an entry level admin on a job site and worked my tail off to move up. I actually made more money at one point than my BFF who had a masters in Sp Ed. I

But even with my salary being high, it was also in Boston and my DH salary was not enough to be able to live closer to my work. So I had this horrendous commute. Finally it got to be too much. Guess where I landed after 10 years of experience and making great money?
Making $12 an hour at a bank. Then I found my current position. Although I make a decent salary and the commute is a lot more manageable it is still a good 25k lower than I used to make.

5 different companies had told me they went with a person who had similar experience but more education. One time, a school superintendent did say they went with a woman in their town whose kids went to their school so they felt she had better ties to the community so this one was not due to my education but most were.

I admit I also got a lot of "you're over qualified" as well. And I obviously can't say I would have gotten one of those position even if I had a degree but I do wish I stayed in college back then. Instead of being an admin now and actually doing the work of an Asst PM or an Engineer, and not getting the credit? I might be an Engineer or a PM, have a bigger salary plus potential job growth that is just not available to me.

I went to college and I can tell you it was the biggest waste of my parents money ever. I simply lacked the maturity at 17 years old and can tell you all I gained from it was how to type 100wpm, how to funnel wine in a Box, and how to give a presentation drunk midday. I wish my parents saw that and encouraged me to work a few years, figure out what I wanted to do and had some time to get the maturity to take it seriously. I'm not so much anti college as much as I am of the notion that they must attend immediately upon graduating high school. My dh is actually in school finishing up his CPA now and I'm very grateful he only earned an associates when he graduated high school and we weren't burdened with debt for a useless degree. I hope with my kids we sit and discuss where we want to go and how to get there.

I've never met anybody who regretted college. That's so odd.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

amy052006 said:
I would go back to undergrad in a heart beat.

I told DH this the other day! It was seriously one of the best times of my life. When people say they didn't enjoy college all I can think is you did it wrong.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

Diapers&Wipes said:
You can have any degree and apply to law school. My friend was a sociology major and now an attorney.

I applied with an education degree but choose a different route.

penguingrrl · May 2014

cjcouple said:

amy052006 said:

cjcouple said:

amy052006 said:

UO crossover -- college is barely, if at all, about what you learn in an actual classroom pertaining to a career. Some of the best colleges and universities don't even have majors applicable to jobs. There is no accounting degree from Harvard.

I think this depends on the degree. Education, all forms of Engineering, legal, medical etc are all taught real classes that teach the job.

See, I know plenty of lawyers who weren't some sort of made up "pre-law" major. Most top colleges and universities have nothing of the sort.

Now, law school teaches the job, sure. That is true for any professional graduate school. But I take exception with this "college is a waste because at 18 blah blah". That really isn't the point of an undergrad education at all.

_____________________________________
Honestly, I am fuzzy when it comes to pre-law and pre-med, etc but don't you have to have certain legal classes before you can get into a law school?
I know you have to take LSAT for law school correct? how can you do well enough on LSAT without ever taking a class in legal?

I mean from what I understand, I would think you have to have some sort of foundation before succeeding in law school.

Of can I literally get a BS in Civil Engineering and apply to law school?

Maybe I am wrong, please feel free to educate me on this because as I said, I really have no idea.

The LSAT is geared towards your ability to think logically, not knowing actual law. I took the LSAT and was accepted into law school and decided to go to graduate school for history instead. My degree was in history with minors in English and music. Law schools weren't looking for "pre law" majors, they were looking for students who were able to write well, think logically and learn. I took courses in Constitutional history, introduction to logic (which is a philosophy course, but satisfies a math requirement and is very difficult) and basically proved that I could work hard, could learn, could think in the particularly logical way lawyers need to. Their job was to make me familiar with laws. Or, more specifically, make me familiar with how to look up laws and precedents and what resources are available to that end.

notkateanymore · May 2014

cjcouple said:

amy052006 said:

cjcouple said:

amy052006 said:

UO crossover -- college is barely, if at all, about what you learn in an actual classroom pertaining to a career. Some of the best colleges and universities don't even have majors applicable to jobs. There is no accounting degree from Harvard.

I think this depends on the degree. Education, all forms of Engineering, legal, medical etc are all taught real classes that teach the job.

See, I know plenty of lawyers who weren't some sort of made up "pre-law" major. Most top colleges and universities have nothing of the sort.

Now, law school teaches the job, sure. That is true for any professional graduate school. But I take exception with this "college is a waste because at 18 blah blah". That really isn't the point of an undergrad education at all.

_____________________________________
Honestly, I am fuzzy when it comes to pre-law and pre-med, etc but don't you have to have certain legal classes before you can get into a law school?
I know you have to take LSAT for law school correct? how can you do well enough on LSAT without ever taking a class in legal?

I mean from what I understand, I would think you have to have some sort of foundation before succeeding in law school.

Of can I literally get a BS in Civil Engineering and apply to law school?

Maybe I am wrong, please feel free to educate me on this because as I said, I really have no idea.

You just have to take the LSATs...DH has BioMed and Mechanical Engineering Degrees and decided a year after graduating {worked at the med school at Duke while waiting on his ex wife to graduate} that he wasn't going to go to med school and was accepted to law school the week after. There were a couple of special circumstances, but you just have to take the LSATs as far as I know.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

amy052006 said:

Andrewsgal said:

Diapers&Wipes said:
You can have any degree and apply to law school. My friend was a sociology major and now an attorney.
I applied with an education degree but choose a different route.

Oh, and education degrees are even on the way out! Lots of districts, and definitely private schools, want and undergrad is some sort of area of concentration, then a Masters in Ed. or at least some other Ed course work.

This is not the case in Texas yet but we are always behind.

penguingrrl · May 2014

Andrewsgal said:

Andrewsgal said:

You can have any degree and apply to law school. My friend was a sociology major and now an attorney.
I applied with an education degree but choose a different route.

Oh, and education degrees are even on the way out! Lots of districts, and definitely private schools, want and undergrad is some sort of area of concentration, then a Masters in Ed. or at least some other Ed course work.
This is not the case in Texas yet but we are always behind.

I graduated 10 years ago and that was already the case in NJ. There was no undergraduate education major available at Rutgers. You did a regular major then applied to the Graduate School of Education. If you wanted to teach high school you majored in the subject you wanted to teach. For elementary you could do whatever major you enjoyed. Most of my friends who became elementary school teachers majored in psych because there were so many psych requirements to get into the grad school of ed that it made the most sense for them.The only issue with that (and it was true of all NJ schools) was the the certification was reciprocal with many states, so a lot of people went to school in DE or PA to get a Bachelors in Ed and avoid the masters then returned to NJ to teach and school districts took them because they could pay them less

. It made it harder for NJ grads to get jobs for a while. Not sure if it's still the same, but it annoyed me and it wasn't even my field.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

Random thought. Because I teach sped I always have 2-3 paraprofessionals in my room with me. The ones that have been there a while are brilliant at what they do. They usually work harder than me and get paid nothing! WTH would you encourage your kid to do a job that requires more work and a lot less pay? This is basically what you are doing.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

amy052006 said:

Andrewsgal said:

Random thought. Because I teach sped I always have 2-3 paraprofessionals in my room with me. The ones that have been there a while are brilliant at what they do. They usually work harder than me and get paid nothing! WTH would you encourage your kid to do a job that requires more work and a lot less pay? This is basically what you are doing.

I agree, but there is also a flip side to that. I've worked in non-profits most of my career. There are no doubt people in trades who make more than people in non-profit administration (or the KC example of social work). But I'd never say 'I wish my kid made more money coal mining than working for a non-profit".

I agree. I also imagine being a social worker is a hell of a lot more fulfilling than a coal miner.

Keeptruckin · May 2014

For sure, college is about more than what job you can potentially end up with. With that in mind, I hope DD goes on to get a degree or higher. We will raise her with that expectation. Just like there is no room for the idea of not finishing high school. College will be the same. She can pursue a trade after she has a degree.

Now if we are talking about a person who has no interest or capability what so ever to go to college, then I would push her to attend trade school, etc. I have a younger second cousin who is not going to be attending college. She works retail now, and is hoping to move up to retail management. I have told her numerous times, most management positions want higher education. Family has tried getting her to pursue different trades, dental assistant programs, hair dressing school, etc. Her parents don't know what to do. She hated high school, and just wants to be done with school.

I hope if DD has such a bad experience in high school I can change schools or look to different options because it can have such an impact. Now my husband, on the other hand, also hated high school but loved college where he thrived!

zbeesma86 · May 2014

I don't regret one day of college (undergrad or masters).

Are there days I wish I would have skipped it all, saved all that money, and worked? Of course!

But to not have the experience, memories, education, and friends I have- no way. Well, maybe the Masters.

Undergrad was a blast!

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

LalaMama81 said:

Having worked most in the setting of higher education, living w/ students and mentoring them, etc. I always find these conversations fascinating.

If you regret your time in college, you did it wrong. For me the classroom and my major was just part of it. It was more about what I did extra-curricularly and my leadership roles. I went to a Christian SLAC outside of Philly. So, cheesy as it may sound, living in a small, purposeful community for 4 years had a huge impact on me and my H. We developed our world views while we lived/went there and it really shaped who we are today.

I would have a totally different life in every way if it were not for that experience.

Oh, and what most of the students I worked with wanted was a fulfilling calling/vocation. Not just a job. Not just something to pay the bills. They wanted to be social workers, teachers, pastors, scientists, etc. b/c that's what they felt passionate about and how they wanted to make a difference. Too many of them know that their parents or grandparents were stuck in jobs they hated for decades b/c they felt they had no other choice.

I don't regret going to college and had an amazing time. I was on student government, had lots of friends (some lifelong) and have great memories. I regret going as an immature 17 year old, not going at all. I think if I got some real world experience and grew up a little before going I may have actually went to class and took it more seriously. I do think it wasn't cost effective as I only worked in a job requiring a degree for 3 years.

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

LalaMama81 said:

But the point of the classic, residential experience is to do your formative years there. Not go back when you've matured. Students that try to have that experience starting at 20 don't have the same experience and sometimes have other difficulties. Obviously adults go back to school or start school all the time and get a degree - and that's great. But it isn't and can't be the same experience a 17 or 18 year old has when they start.

Eh, I lived next to a guy who was 20 when he started and besides the occasional ribbing about his age I don't see any differences between his experience and mine except he actually went to class. He did move off campus junior year but most people did to apartments around that time anyway. I can think of a handful of us who lived there all four years.

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