UO

Andrewsgal · May 2014

It's that time.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

This seems to be unpopular. I would not automatically take a niece or nephew to keep them out of foster care. I would take my 11 year old niece and 7 year old nephew at the drop of a hat, because I have an established relationship with the,but if any of my other SIL had a baby it would take a lot of consideration and thought and would without a doubt NOT be automatic just because it was family. We actually talked about this when DHs step sister who is a bipolar drug addict talked about getting pregnant. My family comes first.

bhuffman · May 2014

I agree with you @Andrewsgal‌. A baby is more easily adopted too, so I think a baby has a great chance of being adopted into a loving stable home.

Mrs.Hizzo · May 2014

gennyu said:

Andrewsgal said:

This seems to be unpopular. I would not automatically take a niece or nephew to keep them out of foster care. I would take my 11 year old niece and 7 year old nephew at the drop of a hat, because I have an established relationship with the,but if any of my other SIL had a baby it would take a lot of consideration and thought and would without a doubt NOT be automatic just because it was family. We actually talked about this when DHs step sister who is a bipolar drug addict talked about getting pregnant. My family comes first.

Totally agree with this.

I would automatically take any of my nieces or nephews, but they're all 7+ and I love them. In the situation that was described a couple days ago, I just don't know.

lyingliarlies · May 2014

i think that sugar, corn syrup, & crap filled "peanut butter" shouldn't even be sold anymore. people who don't know any better think it's healthy. even worse is the reduced fat kind. yes i realize this is kind of ridiculous. i'll try to think of something better

Mrs.Hizzo · May 2014

amy052006 said:

I actually think my opinion is the unpopular one on that topic. I keep thinking of my niece or nephew tracking down family later, seeing the rather ideal life we lead, and being devastated. Nope. Also, I am a judgy mcjudgerson about people's reasons. To me, the fact that maybe it would be better for the baby to have a placement with total strangers is absolutely a valid reason -- not money. Especially on a board of SAHMs. Maybe no one meant it that way, but it read a little "Well, I'm not going back to work to support a kid that isn't mine" when people talked about the financial aspect and that was sort of gross to me.

Also, I will admit I have really hard time separating this from my own kids. Sure, we aren't drug addicts, but what if DH and I die? The thought that my family wouldn't take care of them is heart breaking.

You don't think it's valid to consider whether or not you can afford another child? I'd say it's pretty irresponsible not to. Sure, some people who post here are comfortable but it's not like everyone is rolling in money.

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

amy052006 said:

Mrs.Hizzo said:

amy052006 said:

I actually think my opinion is the unpopular one on that topic. I keep thinking of my niece or nephew tracking down family later, seeing the rather ideal life we lead, and being devastated. Nope. Also, I am a judgy mcjudgerson about people's reasons. To me, the fact that maybe it would be better for the baby to have a placement with total strangers is absolutely a valid reason -- not money. Especially on a board of SAHMs. Maybe no one meant it that way, but it read a little "Well, I'm not going back to work to support a kid that isn't mine" when people talked about the financial aspect and that was sort of gross to me.

Also, I will admit I have really hard time separating this from my own kids. Sure, we aren't drug addicts, but what if DH and I die? The thought that my family wouldn't take care of them is heart breaking.

You don't think it's valid to consider whether or not you can afford another child? I'd say it's pretty irresponsible not to. Sure, some people who post here are comfortable but it's not like everyone is rolling in money.

I'll be honest -- if you already have a kid or two and can't or won't make the wiggle room in your budget for one more, I judge you. You've already got the infrastructure. To me, this is the same as any other type of emergency you are supposedly suppose to be prepared for if you decide not to work.

Would we live the same lifestyle with another kid -- no. Would we be in poverty -- no. If we were, my ass would work more.

Also, I'm trying to imagine the reaction on this bopard if instead of a the adoption of family member this was an oops pregnancy. Because really, if that was the case, everyone would say it was fine and congrats and the financial aspect would just work out.

Except an extra kid is not just a little extra wiggle room. It costs like what, $150k to raise a kid until 18? It's also cheap in the early years but gets more expensive quickly.

Mrs.Hizzo · May 2014

I would say that, because I'd want to be supportive if it was clear the poster didn't intend to get an abortion for whatever reason. But I'd support terminating the pregnancy, too, if they said another child wasn't feasible, financially.

Lindsay9911 · May 2014

My opinion may be jaded bc my husband was one of those kids. His dad passed away 3 days before he was born and his mom started doing drugs the moment my husband was born and abandoned DH and his 1 yr old sister. I'm beyond thankful for his family who stepped up and raised them.
We are in a similar situation with my cousin and his baby and made ourselves available as a family placement. My cousins wife's aunt who has an established relationship took the baby but we were willing.
The foster system is not always a good place for kids and adoption isn't an option when the parental rights haven't been terminated.

MomIn2013 · May 2014

amy052006 said:

Also, I will admit I have really hard time separating this from my own kids. Sure, we aren't drug addicts, but what if DH and I die? The thought that my family wouldn't take care of them is heart breaking.

This. Agree 100%.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

Mrs.Hizzo said:

I would say that, because I'd want to be supportive if it was clear the poster didn't intend to get an abortion for whatever reason. But I'd support terminating the pregnancy, too, if they said another child wasn't feasible, financially.

Yep this. This will put me on a post I and get me flamed to high heaven. But here goes. I do consider the financial impact another child would have on our family. I am actually going back to work in a few years so we can not only meet all our retirement goals, but provide a certain lifestyle for out kids that is important to us (like paying for college) so yes I would consider the financial impact another child would have on our family and if we were to have an accidental pregnancy I would seriously consider termination so there is that too.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

Oh and my disclaimer I know how the child welfare system works and know that a TPR takes years. It still doesn't change he fact that my immediate family and their needs come first. When we were considering SIL we had to also take into consideration the history of mental Illness and drug use which I know will not end with pregnancy.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

I don't know of this will be a UO. I was irrationally irritated last week when I had to sign a form for DH to get a vasectomy. He has to have my signature to get the procedure. WTF? I am a huge proponent of my body my choice and I feel my husband should have that same right.

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

amy052006 said:

KC_13 said:

amy052006 said:

Mrs.Hizzo said:

amy052006 said:

I actually think my opinion is the unpopular one on that topic. I keep thinking of my niece or nephew tracking down family later, seeing the rather ideal life we lead, and being devastated. Nope. Also, I am a judgy mcjudgerson about people's reasons. To me, the fact that maybe it would be better for the baby to have a placement with total strangers is absolutely a valid reason -- not money. Especially on a board of SAHMs. Maybe no one meant it that way, but it read a little "Well, I'm not going back to work to support a kid that isn't mine" when people talked about the financial aspect and that was sort of gross to me.

Also, I will admit I have really hard time separating this from my own kids. Sure, we aren't drug addicts, but what if DH and I die? The thought that my family wouldn't take care of them is heart breaking.

You don't think it's valid to consider whether or not you can afford another child? I'd say it's pretty irresponsible not to. Sure, some people who post here are comfortable but it's not like everyone is rolling in money.

I'll be honest -- if you already have a kid or two and can't or won't make the wiggle room in your budget for one more, I judge you. You've already got the infrastructure. To me, this is the same as any other type of emergency you are supposedly suppose to be prepared for if you decide not to work.

Would we live the same lifestyle with another kid -- no. Would we be in poverty -- no. If we were, my ass would work more.

Also, I'm trying to imagine the reaction on this bopard if instead of a the adoption of family member this was an oops pregnancy. Because really, if that was the case, everyone would say it was fine and congrats and the financial aspect would just work out.

Except an extra kid is not just a little extra wiggle room. It costs like what, $150k to raise a kid until 18? It's also cheap in the early years but gets more expensive quickly.

I'd love to see someone say this to someone when they show up here worried about the financial impact of their oops pregnancy. And like I said -- UO time -- if $150k over 18 years is THAT much of a back breaker, I'd go back to work.

Well it depends on where the person is in the process. Obviously if abortion or adoption aren't an option saying "hey, good luck finding that $150k, sucks to be you!" Isn't really helpful. It really also depends on my relationship with the person. Would I bust my ass to raise my niece and nephew? Absolutely. Would I take my uncles cousins sisters baby and put my family in a bad position in the process? That gives me pause.

Mrs.Hizzo · May 2014

Look, no one is arguing against taking in a child in need. I think everyone can agree that it's a wonderful thing to do, and anyone who makes the decision to do that ought to be commended. But the other side of the coin is that some people are not prepared to do that, and it doesn't really matter what their reasons are, any more than it matters what your reasons are for not being a foster parent to a random kid that you have no blood relationship to.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

We have not chosen family as guardians. I don't automatically assume family will provide a better future than other options. We have chosen friends and made sure it will not be a financial burden on them.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

amy052006 said:

IDK -- I just know if it was my kids, I really really hope my family members would be ok with sacrificing some upper middle class American perks so they don't wallow in a foster system for years. Also I'm not sure the lesson I want to teach my kids is "stuff and vacations and no student loans is more important than family".

I get what you are saying AG, but purely based on what you put out there, it doesn't seem like you guys want for much. And for me, and only me, it would super hard for me to look past that and send my family member into the system.

but there is so much more to consider than financials. I know three is my max. I am a great mom to tell and a pretty good mom to three I would be a horrible mom to four. I would be overwhelmed and stressed out. It wouldn't be pretty. There ar so many things to take into consideration. It's not black and white for me. If it is for you great you are a better person than I. There are so many things to consider. It's not just about giving up vacations and educations. I have already said I would immediately take my niece and nephew, but when it comes to a baby that could have other issues there is more at stake.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

I am royally pissed that this has tuned into a AG is a heartless bitch because she won't give up her Disney trips to raise another kid. I am not surprised it is the bump but give me a fucking break it is so much more than hat raising a child has a hell of a lot of impacts other than financial.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

I think I have a very different view of this too. One of my dear friends and college roommate M was raised with foster kids. In the end her parents actually owned a boys ranch for children in the system. Being raised with foster kids was so ver damaging for her. It started with two family members. The things she went through due o these very damaged kids living with her were horrid. Her parents were doing what they bought best. I know her story is rare and would not likely happen with a baby, but I do think the effects or your decisions on your biological children needs to be seriously considered.

spring_time · May 2014

I judge those who do any judging in this situation. There are tons of factors to consider outside of financial, but financial is something that needs to be pretty high on the list. How many people come on here asking how they know if they are done having kids? Many people answer that financial considerations played a role. I think there is a certain elitism about people who "should" SAH and those who should not. If you have an extra $150,000 to raise an unexpected child, then congratulations. I think the vast majority of SAHM need to make some sort of sacrifice to SAH. A large percentage of SAHM are doing it because they feel that is what is best for their particular family. If taking on another child is going to put a family in a difficult financial and emotional situation, then it is not the best placement for the child.

Adding to that, it is not just the financial. If the mother is drug addicted, there is a good chance, the child has some issues as well. Now you are talking about possible therapies and support services which cost money and take a lot of time and support. It takes years for a child to become adopted which means legal fees and additional stress on the family. Then there is maintaining or avoiding the relationship with the birth mother who is also family.

I think your argument about nobody wanting to take your kids if you die is weak. Theoretically you have had that discussion to make sure that doesn't happen. As for the oops pregnancy, yes it is something you will figure out, but possibly not without a lot of heartache. Some may choose to terminate which is a choice that they can make. I believe some people on this board would be very supportive of that choice. However, this is another situation with a choice and some of the arguments are the same (emotional, financial, etc) There is a viable option, though not ideal. However, these same people are judging a person's character in making that choice.

zbeesma86 · May 2014

I see both sides as well. I agree with points both of them made. I think this is one of those situations you'd have to go through and decide in the moment.

All in all it's a super sad situation and it would be hard on anyone to make a choice like that.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

I guess that is what I am saying, I see both sides too. I don't know that I wouldn't take a baby but it is not an automatic yes from me for a lot of reason and yes one of them is financial. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

zbeesma86 · May 2014

Andrewsgal said:

I guess that is what I am saying, I see both sides too. I don't know that I wouldn't take a baby but it is not an automatic yes from me for a lot of reason and yes one of them is financial. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

You aren't a bad person at all! There are so many factors to consider. and you seem to make logical decisions (like my DH)- you look at facts and can decide clearly. While I'm more of an emotional decision maker (has its pros and cons).

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

Andrewsgal said:

I think I have a very different view of this too. One of my dear friends and college roommate M was raised with foster kids. In the end her parents actually owned a boys ranch for children in the system. Being raised with foster kids was so ver damaging for her. It started with two family members. The things she went through due o these very damaged kids living with her were horrid. Her parents were doing what they bought best. I know her story is rare and would not likely happen with a baby, but I do think the effects or your decisions on your biological children needs to be seriously considered.

This is kind of where I'm at--you have to seriously consider not only your well being but the well being of your children. I can tell you from personal experience that its tough on kids being raised with a sibling with special needs. We probably have one of the easier situations in the special needs world as we've dodged self injurious behavior/violence/meltdowns(so far anyway)/intellectual disabilities but it's still damn hard for both me and my son and not all are so lucky. When you're taking in your drug addicted cousins baby the chances that they'll have issues down the road is higher than average and I can't judge someone for wanting to protect their children from those hardships.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

amy052006 said:

Andrewsgal said:

I guess that is what I am saying, I see both sides too. I don't know that I wouldn't take a baby but it is not an automatic yes from me for a lot of reason and yes one of them is financial. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

I didn't say you were a bad person. I'm just being honest -- I judge reasons. Safety, in my judgy mind, is valid. I would struggle with the decision if we were talking about a kid that posed a threat to my biological children. But I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't side eye financial for a reason in an otherwise comfortable family, especially one where one spouse was not bringing in an income by choice.

So if both DH and I were working it would be fine to site financial reasons but because I am not we cant use that as an excuse? I am as judgey as can be but I think judging this is odd. So when I go back to work I get a free pass but right now since I am free loading not so much. Funny because we will be making a lot more money when I am working. Honestly I see what you are saying I get it, but I also think a financial reason is valid. Maybe not as valid as safety but valid none the less.

jensriot · May 2014

feffy11 said:

I love the smell of garlic on my hands! Garlic everyday!

True story, I was cooking one night and chopping a bunch of garlic. I smelled so much like garlic. DH came over and gave me a quick hug and kiss and said "wow, did you get a new perfume? I love it." So ladies, don't bother with perfume. All you need is eau du garlic.

I got nothing yet for UO. I'll think.

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

letranger said:

I admit the moment I read one of these stories I assume it is MUD.

One of my friends work in the nicu and you'd be depressed to know how often situations like that happen.

magentawarped · May 2014

My mental status is based a lot on how comfortable we are financially. Also, even if I managed to get a job in my career field, it wouldn't pay much, probably only enough to cover child care with maybe a little extra. So yeah, finances are a huge consideration.

raraavis28 · May 2014

letranger said:
I admit the moment I read one of these stories I assume it is MUD.

Really? Doesn't seem like an unrealistic situation to me, though it is sad. I think if it were a brand new poster and this was her first post or something, or the OP had decided to take the child and was making a big deal about it, that might look a little more MUDish....

Also, I haven't weighed in b/c I can definitely see all sides also. I know what my knee-jerk response would be, but I also realize it is a complicated situation....and this OP in particular had very little time to make a decision, which is also unfair.

kcisthebombdotcom · May 2014

amy052006 said:

Oh, and I think it is total bullshit to call the death excuse weak.

My hypothetical dead self would not come back and haunt my cousin that I'm not super close to for not taking my special needs kid just because she had money. We are lucky to have people in our lives to take our kids but I can't fault someone for not taking a kid from family they're not particularly close to.

Aussie45 · May 2014

cjcouple said:

Oh and the financial impact: There is money out there to help raise a fostered or adopted child in these circumstances. Plus Social Security in some cases. I would not feel guilty at all about using govt funds if it meant taking in my siblings orphaned children.

Correct me people if I'm wrong, but I thought I read on the other post that talked about this that if it's family you're not able to get assistance? I don't know though, so just something to consider

Ignore me if I'm wrong.

Aussie45 · May 2014

I think it's piss poor to judge anyone for not talking a child for whatever reason. Any reason can be valid and just because someone passes away, got involved in drugs, etc. does not mean that family members are absolutely required to step up to the plate. If someone can so said kids dodge the foster system, then that's awesome. It is literally not feasible for some people though and there is nothing wrong with that..

Aussie45 · May 2014

cjcouple said:

Aussie45 said:

cjcouple said:

Oh and the financial impact: There is money out there to help raise a fostered or adopted child in these circumstances. Plus Social Security in some cases. I would not feel guilty at all about using govt funds if it meant taking in my siblings orphaned children.

Correct me people if I'm wrong, but I thought I read on the other post that talked about this that if it's family you're not able to get assistance? I don't know though, so just something to consider Ignore me if I'm wrong.

Not that i ever heard of - my aunt got money for taking her 3 grandchildren to foster temporarily while their mom got her life together.

My dad got SS for me as a minor when my mom died

and I also know of another woman here in CT who the state was paying for a 50K addition on her home to add bedrooms for her niece and nephew. Plus get a $1600 monthly check.

Carry on then. I had no idea, I just thought someone had mentioned something similar in the other thread.

JMC11511 · May 2014

I knew my situation would end up on UO.

I did ask the social worker about financial assistance and she made it clear that it was possible if our state determined we needed it, but it would mean a long process of paperwork and bureaucracy and all of that. Really and truly though, the financial aspect was further down the list of priorities.

The main concern was the fact that, like some PP's have mentioned, the substance abuse and mental health issues that SSIL has will likely not stop. We could not, in good conscience, have ourselves involved in what would potentially become a very ugly, messy situation with her, especially given the fact that we have a child. Also, with the baby being placed in a foster family, SSIL will have less access to that family, based strictly on confidentiality, etc. If the baby came here, she has access to us through phone, DH's alcoholic brother, and his mentally unstable mother. In the long run, it may very well be safer for the baby to be in foster care. Ultimately we made what we thought the best decision for our family and for the baby would be.

Also, this is not even close to the same as if a sibling dies and leaves children as orphans, IMO. This is a whole other beast entirely.

And finally, for the couple PP who said they were either cared for by a family member or know someone who was, so do I. DH. And he was the main reason we made the decision we did. His life was extremely difficult as a child, and he did not feel that he could force that situation on our nuclear family.

I am of course, saddened by the situation. And I desperately hope and pray that this baby can be loved and nurtured and cared for by a wonderful family. I also now worry that if we do end up TTC and get pregnant, I will be judged because I could not take in this baby. By the way, that was another factor to consider, we are likely not finished having children and we had to seriously consider whether we would be able to care for three. The answer was no.

Regardless, I appreciate all of the people at least allowing for the fact that this was not an easy decision, and respecting the decision that we did make. Oh, and I only wish those were MUD. Unfortunately, we had a feeling this day would come someday.

chelseymat · May 2014

I didn't read the other post so if we're not talking about an the foster care system forgive me but FTR if you take in a child that has been removed by CPS you can go through the process to become a licensed foster home and thus receive money from your state of residence for caring for the child. In addition, should you adopt said child you then receive and adoption subsidy until the child is 18. Once the child is 18 they qualify for college funding at all state schools if they were ever in the foster care system. Money is not a valid argument here. If you don't want to do it….thats fine. Its a lot to take another kid. I see plenty of kids who do fine with a non-relative placement (and plenty who don't) when the relatives can't or won't care for them.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

chelseymat said:
I didn't read the other post so if we're not talking about an the foster care system forgive me but FTR if you take in a child that has been removed by CPS you can go through the process to become a licensed foster home and thus receive money from your state of residence for caring for the child. In addition, should you adopt said child you then receive and adoption subsidy until the child is 18. Once the child is 18 they qualify for college funding at all state schools if they were ever in the foster care system. Money is not a valid argument here. If you don't want to do it….thats fine. Its a lot to take another kid. I see plenty of kids who do fine with a non-relative placement (and plenty who don't) when the relatives can't or won't care for them.

Um no in Texas they qualify for free tuition there is a lot more to college costs than tuition to an in state school but first you have to get in. If we are going to give information lets make it accurate.

JMC11511 · May 2014

Andrewsgal said:

chelseymat said:
I didn't read the other post so if we're not talking about an the foster care system forgive me but FTR if you take in a child that has been removed by CPS you can go through the process to become a licensed foster home and thus receive money from your state of residence for caring for the child. In addition, should you adopt said child you then receive and adoption subsidy until the child is 18. Once the child is 18 they qualify for college funding at all state schools if they were ever in the foster care system. Money is not a valid argument here. If you don't want to do it….thats fine. Its a lot to take another kid. I see plenty of kids who do fine with a non-relative placement (and plenty who don't) when the relatives can't or won't care for them.
Um no in Texas they qualify for free tuition there is a lot more to college costs than tuition to an in state school but first you have to get in. If we are going to give information lets make it accurate.

I also did not use money as an "argument." I actually pointed out, that wasn't our main concern/factor in our decision.

chelseymat · May 2014

Andrewsgal said:

I didn't read the other post so if we're not talking about an the foster care system forgive me but FTR if you take in a child that has been removed by CPS you can go through the process to become a licensed foster home and thus receive money from your state of residence for caring for the child. In addition, should you adopt said child you then receive and adoption subsidy until the child is 18. Once the child is 18 they qualify for college funding at all state schools if they were ever in the foster care system. Money is not a valid argument here. If you don't want to do it….thats fine. Its a lot to take another kid. I see plenty of kids who do fine with a non-relative placement (and plenty who don't) when the relatives can't or won't care for them.
Um no in Texas they qualify for free tuition there is a lot more to college costs than tuition to an in state school but first you have to get in. If we are going to give information lets make it accurate

You're right if the child was adopted they ONLY get free tuition. Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you. But lets not make it out to be needing 150k plus to raise this child. You're getting a monthly income ($800 in my state) until the child is 18 and free college tuition. It would be such a ridiculous burden to play living expenses for a child to attend a 4 year college? Like I said, its fine not to take the child in. I'm not even judging that but lets be realistic money is not the real issue here.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

Oh and I am very familiar with the money received and it is often not enough to cover all basics. To say taking in another child would have zero effects financially is incorrect.

outnumbered · May 2014

Andrewsgal said:

I didn't read the other post so if we're not talking about an the foster care system forgive me but FTR if you take in a child that has been removed by CPS you can go through the process to become a licensed foster home and thus receive money from your state of residence for caring for the child. In addition, should you adopt said child you then receive and adoption subsidy until the child is 18. Once the child is 18 they qualify for college funding at all state schools if they were ever in the foster care system. Money is not a valid argument here. If you don't want to do it….thats fine. Its a lot to take another kid. I see plenty of kids who do fine with a non-relative placement (and plenty who don't) when the relatives can't or won't care for them.
Um no in Texas they qualify for free tuition there is a lot more to college costs than tuition to an in state school but first you have to get in. If we are going to give information lets make it accurate.

Money should absolutely be a consideration. What is so wrong about saying that somebody's finances are important? Don't we often hear that money problems are cited as one of the biggest sources of discord in a marriage?

From the brief research I have done MA only gives a subsidy if the child has special needs. I could be wrong because it seems rather complicated. I am sure it is not that simple to just become a licensed foster home so that is not always a viable option.

Andrewsgal · May 2014

amy052006 said:
I'll be honest -- college would be the last thing on my radar, considering it's not like the odds are all that great of a kid who goes through the system ending up in college anyway. I'm sure some kids would gladly take student loans and an actual shot over being in the system.

I completely agree, and like I said, don't judge necessarily the myriad of other reasons. But "college living expenses besides tuition" is a great example of what I consider bullshit. It's like saying you won't raise a kid unless you can provide a upper middle class to wealthy lifestyle. It's not necessary, and less frills are probably preferable to the alternative all things considered.

Obviously that particular issue would not make or break our decision but let's not sir here and spout bullshit like it wouldn't effect us financially at all.

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