elementary teacher....

RedCherry1109 · May 2014

How does a student qualify for CM? Also if the teacher and principle wants to hold back a student but the parents wants the child to the next grade. Does the parent have to sign the letter saying they agree to retain the student in the current grade, if the parent disagrees? Also if you have a student that is in the I E P programs that you have to take a side and do his testing with. If you are doing their reading test and they don't know a word, can you help them out or do you go on to the next word?

Cricket81 · May 2014

I'm sorry, I am blanking on what CM stands for. As for the other questions, in the districts I have worked for, everyone needs to be on board for retention, including the parents. Usually there are a lot of meetings to try to get the parents to really understand why the teachers and administration think it's for the best. And know that any teacher who recommends it, has done A LOT of thinking about it. A lot of reading tests are set up very differently. The ones that I have given most frequently, if the child doesn't get the word in 3 seconds, you tell them the word, count it as an error, and keep going. You don't use it as a teaching moment to help them figure it out. Most teachers will, however, make note of it and go back when the test is over to go over strategies that the student could have used to figure out the word.

RedCherry1109 · May 2014

CM stands for Content Mastery. With the reading test it is a short story the child has to read and answer questions about it. My son says if he doesn't know the word then he has to sound it out the best he can and go on to the next word. I feel like they are setting him up to fail be a use if he doesn't know a word(s) then how can he answer the questions. @Cricket81‌

jennOK · May 2014

What grade is he in?

RedCherry1109 · May 2014

1st @jennOK‌

jennOK · May 2014

They may be testing two things at once, both fluency and comprehension.

With the fluency testing they count the number of words the student gets correct per minute. Any words they don't know count against them as errors, so if they told him the word it would throw off his fluency score.

Now, answering the questions is the comprehension part. In my district, the teacher reads the comprehension passage to the student through second grade, or until they are on a third-grade reading level. Then, they are expected to be able to read it independently and answer the questions.

To me they shouldn't do the test at the same time, if that's what they did.

BC&LM · May 2014

RedCherry1109 said:
How does a student qualify for CM? Also if the teacher and principle wants to hold back a student but the parents wants the child to the next grade. Does the parent have to sign the letter saying they agree to retain the student in the current grade, if the parent disagrees? Also if you have a student that is in the I E P programs that you have to take a side and do his testing with. If you are doing their reading test and they don't know a word, can you help them out or do you go on to the next word?

I currently teach at a HS, but I also worked with grades 3-8 for a couple of years. I don't have experience with retention, but I can answer about the reading tests. I'm not sure what system your school uses (maybe F&P?) but with the system our school used, you can't tell them words they don't know in the story because if you did, the reading level they would be assigned wouldn't be valid because it wouldn't be based on their ability to read independently at that level. Now for kids with IEPs, typically during testing situations, you can clarify the questions for them if they don't understand, but you can not read or clarify the actual text itself.

GracieL79 · May 2014

To have a child restrained in my district the parents have to be in agreement with the retention and sign off on it. If they do not want their child to be retained, the child will not be. Also a child with an IEP cannot be retained. I currently do not have any children in my class with an IEP, however if I am giving a reading test, like the one you described, and a child doesn't know a word, I will usually help them with it, unless it's a state test and I'm not allowed to.

Cricket81 · May 2014

I am going to be kind of frank, but if it's a grade level text and he is unable to read enough of the words that he can't answer the questions, then the text is too hard for him and he isn't reading on grade level. There are other tests that check different types of comprehension (like listening) but in order to pass a reading test, he needs to be able to read the words on his own and use independent strategies on words he doesn't know.

GracieL79 · May 2014

To clarify, if I'm testing fluency to determine a reading level, I don't help them with a word. Like @jennOK‌ said, it will throw the reading level off.

jennOK · May 2014

Also, as far as retention goes it depends on the state law. My state passed a reading law that if a child doesn't pass the state reading test he will be retained.

And, on the state reading testing all IEP students have to take it unless they qualified for a portfolio test. It can't be read to them, and they can't get any help.

RedCherry1109 · May 2014

This test I'm talkng about is just a reading test they take weekly.

Cricket81 · May 2014

Ok, then to me that sounds like "progress monitoring" which is still meant to show their independent progress. I know it sounds harsh, but if teachers don't know what they can do on their own, then they don't know what to do to help them

jennOK · May 2014

Well, if it's just a regular classroom test then I'd give the kid some help. I mean he's just in first grade.

megandchase · May 2014

In our reading assessments students may request the teacher tell them the word and if they do, then it is still counted as an error because they did not know the word ( so they still get the same fluency score and the meaning of the word is not given). Honestly if he is doing poorly every single week reading the words and comprehending, then he's probably being tested on a level that is too difficult for him. If the level is considered "grade level" and he is struggling weekly then I can understand the concern for retention. In my district everyone must be on board for retention. I honestly would rather my child be retained in a lower grade level than to get to a testing grade (3rd grade in most states) and fail and be retained then. A lot of times, kids need another year to mature academically. I would also find out exactly what his reading level is and how "far" he is behind grade level.

jennOK · May 2014

I agree with @megandchase in that I would rather my child be retained in first grade than later on. I've had students who did not pass their state third grade reading test. Retention had been recommended by previous teachers. Now, there is no choice they have to repeat third grade, according to state law. I think it would have been easier on them, and it would have given them more opportunities to catch up on those fundamental reading skills they were behind on if it had been done earlier.

RIngReady · May 2014

Oh do I feel like this is a can of worms.

I work in SpEd at an Elementary level. Each district/state is different with regards to retention laws and recommendations.

Research regarding retention is usually pretty anti-retention especially if there is any type of disability. As a SpEd team we always tell parents if it is a matter of the student needing re-instruction/more exposure to the material, retention is a consideration, but if the student needs more time or needs additional supports in order to learn, retention won't help.

The Lights Retention scales are kind of the 'go to' as far as retention recommendation goes. You can actually google it and a PDF of the scales will come up.

Students on an IEP are able to qualify for accommodations, including 1:1 testing, quiet area, additional time to answer ect as long as it has been written in their IEP and written in the test accommodations portion of their IEP. If students have qualified for a testing accommodation it is a federal mandate and not district/state dependent. (although districts have been known to make their qualifications very difficult so that accommodations aren't allowed.)

On a personal note, I have seen retention be both beneficial and detrimental. You know your son best and if you think retention is good/bad, go with your gut.

Nix55 · May 2014

Oh, sweetie. This has got to be tough. I agree with Cricket though. If your son doesn't know a word, they shouldn't help him. He can't answer the questions because he can't read the words in the selection. If they help him, it will skew his comprehension results.

In my state, the parent must agree with the retention. Even if you say "yes," you can change your mind the next fall.

I would recommend working with him over the summer and/or finding a tutor. You really don't want to move him on to the next grade if he's behind. It will just get harder and harder for him to catch up. Of course this is considering that it isn't a SPED issue.

FWIW, I have my Master's in reading instruction, but I teach eighth grade.

punky917 · May 2014

I am a special ed teacher in the elementary level. It is next to impossible to retain a student in my district and it is for a good reason. There is so much research that talks about the negative impact of it (much lower graduation rate being one of them).

Our students take the IRI (Informal Reading Inventory). Students are timed on how long it took them to read a certain level book and they have to answer comprehension questions. They can't get help with that because it will throw off what their independent reading level is. Usually, students either make up the word or try to sound it out so they can move on. I agree with pp that it wouldn't be considered "independent" reading level if they are getting help. Even my students with IEP's do not get help with this part because I would never know what they can do on their own if I read it for them.

It does sound like they are monitoring his progress in reading if they are doing it once a week. Our IRI's are done monthly, but I have to do my progress monitoring every week or every other week. If he is already on an IEP, ask if he has accommodations on taking tests. With some of my students, it makes a world of difference who give them the test or where they take them. I hope this helps.

Nix55 · May 2014

Okay, wait though. Is your son receiving services or regular ed? I think this makes a difference. I agree with you Punky IF Red Cherry's son is receiving services. If not, I think she needs to strongly consider retention. There are way too many kiddos being pushed on when they aren't ready. I have kids in eighth grade who struggle with reading because they just keep getting passed on.

RedCherry1109 · June 2014

Sorry ladies, I don't have good Internet now so I can't get on a lot. We ended up moved this past week and he will be in a better school. He will most likely be held back which I'm fine with since it's a better school and hopefully they can help him. I'm going to look into getting him a tutor and also check into dyslexia for him since he shows a few sings of it.

Nix55 · June 2014

Thanks for the update, @RedCherry1109‌! I hope all goes well (which I am confident it will since early intervention is key).

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