I suppose I thrive on the discomfort of others

susieandmarty · May 2014

The other day my friend and I met up with our new babies ( both have older dds almost three). She was breast feeding (we were sitting outside). Dd was chilling in her stroller. I had her bottle at her feet and it was clearly visible.

A woman came up to us and was like - way to go mommies. That is weird to me in and if itself. Thanks for your random support. She then said - way to go breast feeding. It's so important.

Well - that did it. I looked her square in the eye and said, thanks. I can't breastfeed (no supply, breast reduction). I had a really emotional time not feeding my first and am fully secure in my decision to not try this time but it's still a hot button issue for me.

Well, this woman became so flustered she stood there, and asked if she could say one more thing. I was like I don't know you but I can't stop you from talking. She then stood there stumbling over her words about how her sisters multiracial adopted baby who was formula fed did better in school then her kid who was breast fed. I had to keep myself from asking why if mattered that the kid was multiracial. Then she was like do what works did you. I was like thanks, I can parent my child

It was so awkward, I felt bad for my friend but I could not keep my mouth shut. Still bothering me a few days later.

sugarland726 · May 2014

I think you overreacted a bit. I think she was just trying to give two thumbs up and didn't mean it as a statement on women that aren't breastfeeding.

susieandmarty · May 2014

Maybe - like I said its a hot button issue for me and it irks me. Dh said I should have let it go. Maybe i should have but I did not. I also did not realize she was going to stop and go on like she did.

Saying to someone who can't breastfeed of chooses not too that breast feeding is so important can be tough

SunflowersBride · May 2014

Ugh, I mean come on. There are literally no winners in this situation. For the first time in forever, a woman is breastfeeding in public and encouraged for doing it, and you get all defensive because it didn't work for you. I don't normally get pissy about this stuff, and I don't give a shit what other people choose to do, but it was ridiculous for you to get so upset about a stranger's comments.

susieandmarty · May 2014

I agree, I was almost surprised I said something. It flew out of my mouth. I know she did not know - she doesn't know me. She does not know that it is. my issue.

sugarland726 · May 2014

susieandmarty said:

Maybe - like I said its a hot button issue for me and it irks me. Dh said I should have let it go. Maybe i should have but I did not. I also did not realize she was going to stop and go on like she did. Saying to someone who can't breastfeed of chooses not too that breast feeding is so important can be tough

I'm sure she went on and on because she was horrified at the reaction she received and didn't intend to insult you. So she freaked and spewed word vomit all over the place trying to make it better. In fact, her telling you that story makes it more clear to me that she didn't mean to offend or insult you in the first place.

susieandmarty · May 2014

Eh. Just relating the story. Not saying I was right. I created an uncomfortable situation for everyone. The whole situation is still bothering me. I guess that is why I wanted to write it out. I couldn't help it. I felt I was being judged as a parent even though I know I wasn't. In the moment I felt defensive.

susieandmarty · May 2014

By the way, I only said. I can't breastfeed. Of course I never said thanks I can parent my child. I realize when I reread the original post. It really looks like I told her off.

tahloulah10 · May 2014

esd said:
While I understand it's a very personal issue for you, I do think you over reacted. It sounds more like she was trying to be supportive of your friend who was NIP. Not a lot of women get positive feedback when NIP and I'm sure that woman thought she was doing something nice.

My thoughts exactly. Glad you get that you overreacted though. Lesson learned!

susieandmarty · May 2014

The title is weird. Was going to change it but then people were responding and I hate when people change something just cause people have negative reactions to a post. Or change it after that so I kept it.

By the title I was just referring to the fact that I created a totally uncomfortable situation. I brought it about by my own making ... Yeah it still is weird

MJamison1020 · May 2014

As someone who wanted to breastfeed but couldn't, much like you, I completely understand where you are coming from with this. Was it an overreaction? Perhaps. But honestly, I have had a lot of experiences where I have been made to feel like less of a mom for formula feeding my child. It hurts. The woman called your friend out for being a great mom for breastfeeding and whether she meant to or not, implied that because your baby had a bottle of formula, you weren't doing as good of a job. It’s incredibly frustrating and it happens ALL THE TIME. I’m not saying breast feeders don’t deserve support because they most certainly do. It seems very taxing and difficult, as most rewarding things are. Much like being a working mom or being a stay at home mom, there are struggles on both sides. I just wanted to offer support because I would have reacted the same way. People say things they don’t realize are hurtful and maybe this woman will tell the tale of the crazy lady that yelled at her at the park but I’m willing to wager she will be much more aware of her words from here on out.

susieandmarty · May 2014

Thanks mjamison1020 - the more appropriately puts how I was feeling.

growingmybun · May 2014

People will always judge your parenting (this woman didn't judge you), but now is a good time to get used to it.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

MJamison1020 said:

As someone who wanted to breastfeed but couldn't, much like you, I completely understand where you are coming from with this. Was it an overreaction? Perhaps. But honestly, I have had a lot of experiences where I have been made to feel like less of a mom for formula feeding my child. It hurts. The woman called your friend out for being a great mom for breastfeeding and whether she meant to or not, implied that because your baby had a bottle of formula, you weren't doing as good of a job. It’s incredibly frustrating and it happens ALL THE TIME. I’m not saying breast feeders don’t deserve support because they most certainly do. It seems very taxing and difficult, as most rewarding things are. Much like being a working mom or being a stay at home mom, there are struggles on both sides. I just wanted to offer support because I would have reacted the same way. People say things they don’t realize are hurtful and maybe this woman will tell the tale of the crazy lady that yelled at her at the park but I’m willing to wager she will be much more aware of her words from here on out.

Yes, let's hope she stops offering words of encouragement to women who do choose and are able to breastfeed in public. Because perhaps there is a woman out there feeling uncomfortable about NIP who would feel greatly encouraged if someone came up to them and said this. Now this woman gets a scolding because of someone else's feelings of inadequacy.

Considering that the vast majority of women end up formula feeding their kids at some point, and the fact that we still live in a bottle feeding society that makes women out to be some sort of exhibitionist for nursing in public, it's amazing to me how anyone continues to feel put down if they are FFing.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

@SunflowersBride‌ I'm so glad you're here to tell people how they should feel. All insecurities gone!

I'm sure you've never ever overreacted to anything because it stung you personally. Is your glass house perched high on a hill or are you in a plan?

SunflowersBride · May 2014

MJamison1020 said:

@SunflowersBride‌ I'm so glad you're here to tell people how they should feel. All insecurities gone! I'm sure you've never ever overreacted to anything because it stung you personally. Is your glass house perched high on a hill or are you in a plan?

My glass house is perched very high on a hill, looking down on the rest of the peons

In all seriousness, of course we are all insecure over certain things, but it doesn't make sense to me to go batshit on a stranger who was trying to be nice and encouraging when most people who NIP get told to go hide in the bathroom and put those tits away. FF is the norm in this country, so I don't understand why people get upset over it.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

@kellydew09‌ I did recognize this was an overreaction but wanted to give my support to the OP because sometimes when things sting us we don't always think before we react and it hurts whether it "should" or not. It's hard for everyone, as I mentioned, and while you're completely right that all that matters is a healthy happy baby, every mom has their insecurities that when brought up even casually and not on purpose can strike a chord. I'm sure you have yours as well. We all make mistakes with the words we choose, I just wanted to offer OP my support because I understand and it seemed very clear that she needed some.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

@SunflowersBride‌ I don't really know how to make you understand. I guess you just do or you don't.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

MJamison1020 said:

@SunflowersBride‌ I don't really know how to make you understand. I guess you just do or you don't.

I do understand. You wanted to breastfeed and you couldn't, and now you feel guilt about it, and someone saying something like this can lead to an emotional reaction. My feelings are just that since most people switch to formula at some point and we live in a society that pushes formula (even while saying "breast is best") a little encouragement to a mom nursing in public can go a long way, and now that woman will probably just keep her mouth shut so as not to offend anyone in the future. I just think that's a shame. There really is just so little support for breastfeeding, despite what people think, and I think a lot more women would be able to breastfeed if they wanted to with the right support. But if you try to offer help, people get upset and consider you a "breastfeeding nazi" and the like. So I guess all the hostility is a bit baffling to me.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

@SunflowersBride‌ My hope was that in the future the women from OP's story would simply say "Great job Mommies" without calling out a specific reason. Because that's where it gets dicey. Everyone "Moms" differently but each of those ways can be right and perfect for their baby. And for as many times as a breastfeeder has been made to feel uncomfortable for feeding her child, a formula feeder has been shamed because "breast is best". We all shame ourselves enough, we should be supporting one another - at the very least on here if not in the real world. People get uncomfortable with NIP and from what I understand an "ew" can question your choices as a mother just as much as a consistent stream of comments like "Oh why didn't you Breastfeed? Don't you know the benefits?" does. Both make a mom feel bad. The mommy wars are real and You saying it's amazing to you a FF could feel put down is just another canon over the wall.

ETA- A previous statement was ignorant and I don't want to make anyone else feel bad because that is against the point of what I'm trying to say.

sugarland726 · May 2014

MJamison1020 said:

@SunflowersBride‌ My hope was that in the future the women from OP's story would simply say "Great job Mommies" without calling out a specific reason. Because that's where it gets dicey. Everyone "Moms" differently but each of those ways can be right and perfect for their baby. And for as many times as a breastfeeder has been made to feel uncomfortable for feeding her child, a formula feeder has been shamed because "breast is best". We all shame ourselves enough, we should be supporting one another - at the very least on here if not in the real world. People get uncomfortable with NIP but an "ew" doesn't question your choices as a mother whereas a consistent stream of comments like "Oh why didn't you Breastfeed? Don't you know the benefits?" does. Both make a mom feel bad. The mommy wars are real and You saying it's amazing to you a FF could feel put down is just another canon over the wall.

It absolutely questions your choices. People think everyone should breastfeed, as long as they don't have to see it. So BFers are constantly judged for not leaving the room like a second class citizen to nurse their baby.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

sugarland726 said:

MJamison1020 said:

@SunflowersBride‌ My hope was that in the future the women from OP's story would simply say "Great job Mommies" without calling out a specific reason. Because that's where it gets dicey. Everyone "Moms" differently but each of those ways can be right and perfect for their baby. And for as many times as a breastfeeder has been made to feel uncomfortable for feeding her child, a formula feeder has been shamed because "breast is best". We all shame ourselves enough, we should be supporting one another - at the very least on here if not in the real world. People get uncomfortable with NIP but an "ew" doesn't question your choices as a mother whereas a consistent stream of comments like "Oh why didn't you Breastfeed? Don't you know the benefits?" does. Both make a mom feel bad. The mommy wars are real and You saying it's amazing to you a FF could feel put down is just another canon over the wall.

It absolutely questions your choices. People think everyone should breastfeed, as long as they don't have to see it. So BFers are constantly judged for not leaving the room like a second class citizen to nurse their baby.

I apologize. I wouldn't personally be happy with an "ew" but I wouldn't feel like anyone was questioning my ability to feed/properly "grow" my child. But I can see where someone could feel that way and so I retract that and will have a stronger appreciation for how much an "ew" can hurt knowing it's on par with things I've gotten. Thank you for sharing how you feel. I adjusted my post because I want to express my understanding.

ETA - sharing

MiaMyPuggle · May 2014

Sorry her comment agitated you. I was putting myself in her shoes and I actually got embarrassed for the stranger! I've said things where I'm like "oh, shit! Why the F did I just say that?!?" It happens. She apologized, right? I'm sure your reaction ruined her whole day and she found her hole and crawled in it. I hope you don't get offended by anyone else soon! I don't see a thing wrong with FF, so good for you for feeding you bebe! Have a better day!!

susieandmarty · May 2014

Wow - I just came back online and this has become quite the discussion.

For the record - I do not have a problem with breast feeding. I have no problem supporting breast feeding friends or strangers and would not have had an issue if said "way to go mom - it's so refreshing/wonderful/spectacular to see a mom feeding her baby." It was the emphasis on the importance of breast feeding for the baby. And yes, her comment was directed at both of us. And, to be honest, it is not something I would say to a stranger because I know it can be a struggle.

Whether or not you would have reacted the way I did, and I have regretted saying "I can't breastfeed" with an attitude to inform her that not everyone can feed their child like that, if you feel a parenting decision being questioned - even if it only feels that way to you and people on the bump will call you out for over reacting - it is hard not to say something, feel the need to defend yourself.

I should have ignored her and I did not. The conversation has lingered with me for days because it is not in my nature to embarrass strangers. But I felt offended by her comment and reacted. That is that.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

Damned if you do, damned if you don't is so my life, @rojovol34.

MamaP19 · May 2014

ITA that until you have experienced it, it's hard to understand how sensitive FF moms can feel about breastfeeding comments. I used to cry at every one of DDs checkups. The doc would always say, "You're breastfeeding, right?" I would say no and feel like I had to go into the whole story of why I couldn't. Meanwhile I am sitting in an exam room covered in posters that promote BFing. I felt like a failure for a long time. After several months of being asked the same question I wanted to shout at him to look at her F***ing chart so that I didn't have to explain again. Of course I never did.

I am able to EBF DS and haven't yet experienced any negativity while NIP, but I get incensed when I hear about women who do. I have a new Ped now but even she asks, "so are you BFing?" (As opposed to how/what do you feed your LO?) When I tell her yes, I get a pat on the back and a, "great job, mom!" I have struggled a lot to BF so I am proud, but I still feel a pang of guilt when I hear that - like I wasn't able to do what was best for DD.

OP- I can empathize with feeling hurt over comments like that, but I would have let it go. While I do think it was overreacting, I don't see how telling someone you can't BF is going BSC...

SunflowersBride · May 2014

@Rinny85 First of all, nobody should have made you feel bad for not being able to breastfeed. I'm very sorry you met with some horrible nurses/LC's who made you feel that way. And additionally, the fact that you EP makes you a rockstar in my book, because pumping sucks and I don't think many people would be so committed when formula is a very good alternative.

I think one of the problems is that there are a lot of people who kind of don't want to breastfeed, but instead of just saying they don't want to do it, they say their milk didn't come in, or their supply was too low, or something because they don't want to admit they didn't want to breastfeed (and btw, I know those are all legitimate issues people have). Also, a lot of people sabotage their breastfeeding efforts by unnecessarily supplementing because they just have a "feeling" that they aren't making enough milk and so forth. I think these issues cause nurses and lactation consultants to have a hard time figuring out who actually has problems breastfeeding and who just don't really want to do it, or who don't have the necessary support or information to make it work.

But none of that is an excuse to treat a woman poorly and it's obviously unhelpful when you are trying everything to make it work and it just doesn't. But again, I think it's awesome that you EP and I hope you are able to make peace with what works for you.

susieandmarty · May 2014

I had a very similar experience with my first - feeding, pumping, getting only 2 oz after pumping 45. My lactation consultant told me to have someone else help me but I had no help. I literally was depressed over it and wasted dd1s first weeks crying. My pedi actually told me to stop because dd1 needed a happy mom. It is why I did not try this time and I am confident in my choice.

The decision to stop was agonizing even though my milk was insufficient and dd was having weight checks two times a week for weeks.

It is why it still hurts so much.

Sunflower bride - I think it's safe to say that someone who goes to a lactation consultant to help breast feeding actually wants to - just my opinion but at 120 an hour for me it was a yes.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

Well @SunflowersBride‌ next time you're confused about why FF have insecurities you can just re-read your last comment. That about sums it up.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

Just to clarify, I know that people who seek out LC's are obviously doing everything in their power to make breastfeeding work. I'm talking about the LC's that come to visit everyone in the hospital right after giving birth.

MJamison1020 said:

Well @SunflowersBride‌ next time you're confused about why FF have insecurities you can just re-read your last comment. That about sums it up.

Gaaahhh, quote box! I don't understand what this comment means, could you clarify?

SunflowersBride · May 2014

Well, I personally went to hell and back to make breastfeeding work for me. I had cracked nipples so severe they didn't heal until DS was about 13 weeks old. I'm positive that most people would have given it up if they dealt with the kind of pain I did. And in actuality, it was the hardest thing I have ever done, and it gave me a better idea of why people do give up. The fact of the matter is that as moms we are all going to judge and be judged for our choices. That's the nature of parenting. I just choose not to give a shit about what other people think, and I do what works for me.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

@MarBee1214‌ I couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly how I felt and why.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

Gilmore09 said:

SunflowersBride said:

Well, I personally went to hell and back to make breastfeeding work for me. I had cracked nipples so severe they didn't heal until DS was about 13 weeks old. I'm positive that most people would have given it up if they dealt with the kind of pain I did. And in actuality, it was the hardest thing I have ever done, and it gave me a better idea of why people do give up. The fact of the matter is that as moms we are all going to judge and be judged for our choices. That's the nature of parenting. I just choose not to give a shit about what other people think, and I do what works for me.

Trust me. Choosing not to give a shit what others think doesn't help me much. I'm much harder on myself about my decision to stop BF than anyone else will ever be on me. I'm sure @MarBee1214 would say the same thing.

@Gilmore09‌ clearly you didn't want it bad enough. No parenting medal for you!

susieandmarty · May 2014

I went to hell and back with dd1 - my nipples were cracked, she was spitting up blood. My dd was not gaining weight and I was crying 1/2 of everyday while she was not gaining. Sometimes you can go to hell and back and it just does not work. Sometimes you get stuck in hell

SunflowersBride · May 2014

Oh for God's sake. I'm done with this thread. I'm very sorry for those of you that wanted to bf and were unable to. I was attempting to point out that it didn't come easily or naturally to me either, but apparently that was the wrong thing to say. Hopefully everyone will come to accept that whatever choice was made was the right one for them.

nolagal79 · May 2014

@MarBee1214‌ and @Gilmore09‌ said it all.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

MarBee1214 said:

My baby was born premature, fed through a tube for the first week of her life, and then asked to BF while she was still having episodes of tachypnea. So I pumped and pumped so she never had to have formula. At 2 weeks old when we were discharged from the NICU I got mastitis in both breasts. I pumped through extreme pain. Then I got thrush. Kept pumping and trying to BF with a shield, which was the only way she would BF even 5 minutes at first. Finally got her weaned off the shield, which was no easy task, got her to BF for about a week without it and then I started bleeding from cracked nipples. Had to go back to work when she was 8 weeks old so I started pumping again at work but my body had been through too much stress while on maternity leave that I barely got 2-3 oz for the whole day to give her. It got less and less until I couldn't even pump an oz. And I had very painful vasospasms all day from how hard I had to compress and massage just to get that tiny bit of milk out. That hard enough??

I'm sorry, I must have missed where I called you out personally and said you didn't try hard enough? Seriously, this has gotten so ridiculous. Again, I'm very sorry that it didn't work out for you. I also must have missed where I said that feeding your kid formula is child abuse and you are a terrible parent. But if that's how you all want to take my comments, go for it.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

@SunflowersBride‌ I thought you were done with this thread?

bethughknee · May 2014

@MJamison1020 I don't really think that was called for. @SunflowersBride has been around this board for a VERY long time. I highly doubt she came back to keep scratching the same wound because she wanted to keep arguing. I think (because I haven't had BFing issues and can't understand how it feels for it to not work) I understood what she meant in the comment that ended up offending some ladies but she also apologized. (ETA: I also completely understand how it offended others as well.) We're all allowed to have a foot in mouth moment.

Or in my case, one or two per week on average. I really don't mean to White Knight but I think Sunflowers was trying to salvage by coming back, not pick a new fight.

MJamison1020 · May 2014

@bethughknee‌ I'm sorry but none of her comments were appropriate, none of her follow-up posts sincere and stating she was done with this thread because she was called out on her rudeness was childish. I understand the hierarchy of this board is very important to some people but it's not to me and while I will admit my comment was childish as well, I stand by it.

ETA- and one more thing, one foot in mouth comment is one thing but repeated ones without trying to understand how offensive you're being is completely another. Or worse, continuing knowing how offensive you're being.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

Thanks @bethughknee. Look, I acknowledge that it was wrong of me to make any comments about anyone not being truthful about wanting to breastfeed or sabotaging their own efforts. I shouldn't have said that. Also, @gilmore09 did make me realize that I am very fortunate that I did struggle in the beginning and it worked out for me, and that I don't know how I would feel if I struggled and it didn't work out for me. But I truly intended that comment to come from a place of understanding how hard it is, and why it doesn't work out for everyone, and not insinuating I'm a better person or I tried harder than someone for whom it didn't work.

And, just to be perfectly clear, I really don't think there is anything wrong with formula feeding and as long as everyone is happy and healthy, it doesn't matter what source a babies' nutrition is coming from. I was overly annoyed by the OP's reaction and I should have just left it at that.

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