Let's beat a dead horse, y'all!

Empireceo · April 2014

https://jezebel.com/circumcision-rates-decline-in-the-u-s-1557539810

talkthewholetime · April 2014

That article wasn't biased at all!!

mrsbtobe20122 · April 2014

talkthewholetime said:

That article wasn't biased at all!!

This.

IBackBevo · April 2014

Of all the parenting choices other people make for their children, this tops my list of things I could not care less about.

spacepotatoes · April 2014

A friend posted a similar article on FB this morning. There is a lot of misleading information there.

whimsy515 · April 2014

half of all uncircumcised males will, over the course of their lifetime, develop some kind of medical issue related to their foreskin.

Ugh... This is what all those crazy old people tell me, when I tell them I'm having a boy. I don't even tell them that I'm not doing the procedure, they just assume and throw out random information.

awc1986 · April 2014

aimee223 said:
What an awful article.

"Infant circumcision should be regarded as equivalent to childhood vaccination,"

Well that seems reasonable. Do these people also think stress gives your fetus teh gay?

lindseylu10 · April 2014

IBackBevo said:
Of all the parenting choices other people make for their children, this tops my list of things I could not care less about.

This! Unlike the vaccination issue which does affect my child, someone circumcising or not circumcising their child literally could not affect me less. Why is this even a discussion we have... It's your kids penis and no one else's!

sisterjanet · April 2014

Apparently this is going to print in May so I couldn't access the actual study, but the notes I found on it suggest the study had at least slightly a different slant than the Jezebel article.

It looked like the study conclusions focused on making sure circumcision is available for poor people, since insurance companies do not necessarily cover it, and since (according to the data in the editorial about the study) poor men are disproportionately likely to get health problems from having a foreskin. (ETA: The thing about circumcision being treated like vaccines, from the editorial it sounded like they meant access for poor people who might otherwise never get it done. I could be wrong since I only have the editor's notes and not the study to look at.)

I can try to access the actual study later but might need someone to remind me in May.

spacepotatoes · April 2014

sisterjanet said:

Apparently this is going to print in May so I couldn't access the actual study, but the notes I found on it suggest the study had at least slightly a different slant than the Jezebel article.

It looked like the study conclusions focused on making sure circumcision is available for poor people, since insurance companies do not necessarily cover it, and since (according to the data in the editorial about the study) poor men are disproportionately likely to get health problems from having a foreskin. (ETA: The thing about circumcision being treated like vaccines, from the editorial it sounded like they meant access for poor people who might otherwise never get it done. I could be wrong since I only have the editor's notes and not the study to look at.)

I can try to access the actual study later but might need someone to remind me in May.

That is very different from how Jezebel and other media outlets have spun it. This was the link that my friend shared, from a Canadian news network that really should know better:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/circumcision-should-be-seen-in-the-same-light-as-childhood-vaccination-study-1.1757650

I was shocked by how much misinformation was in that, too.

If you're right about the notes and what this study truly was recommending, that's actually a valid and legitimate issue and it does make the vaccine comparison make a lot more sense.

sisterjanet · April 2014

I found the pdf! Can you access this link? It looks like it's supposed to be open access. As far as I can tell, the editorial gave partly the right slant, but the authors of the study come down very much on the side of circumcision for all, presumably because of the rate of possible problems for the boys/men later on. I'm still not going to do it to my newborn.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025619614000366

Jillzy86 · April 2014

Just finished a six week birthing class and the nurse and dr's who came in were very pro circumcision. I left the disision up to my husband. This topic is a very personal choice and I understand both points of views.

Lild09 · April 2014

Jillzy86 said:
Just finished a six week birthing class and the nurse and dr's who came in were very pro circumcision. I left the disision up to my husband. This topic is a very personal choice and I understand both points of views.

This. Oh this makes me angry as a nurse. It is our duty as health care professionals to give you pros and cons of every decision and let you the patient or in this case guardian decide. Ooh it makes my blood boil to hear that they were very pro circumcision...their opinions on what they would do for their own sons should not in any circumstance be seen. Grrr!

Do your research on pros and cons of both please and then decide so at least your making an informed decision

Jillzy86 · April 2014

Yes I was surprised that our nurse was so biased. A couple who is from Spain was in our class and they brought up that culturally they do not circumcise, she kind of shot them down and said that studies have shown that it is healthier to circumcise boys. I hope they stuck to their beliefs and looked into it further.

hfooter · April 2014

Lild09 said:

Jillzy86 said:
Just finished a six week birthing class and the nurse and dr's who came in were very pro circumcision. I left the disision up to my husband. This topic is a very personal choice and I understand both points of views.
This. Oh this makes me angry as a nurse. It is our duty as health care professionals to give you pros and cons of every decision and let you the patient or in this case guardian decide. Ooh it makes my blood boil to hear that they were very pro circumcision...their opinions on what they would do for their own sons should not in any circumstance be seen. Grrr!

Do your research on pros and cons of both please and then decide so at least your making an informed decision

I agree with this and this is how my office is.

But if I ask my practitioner what they would do and why, I expect a biased and personal answer from them.

Lild09 · April 2014

hfooter said:

Lild09 said:

Jillzy86 said:
Just finished a six week birthing class and the nurse and dr's who came in were very pro circumcision. I left the disision up to my husband. This topic is a very personal choice and I understand both points of views.
This. Oh this makes me angry as a nurse. It is our duty as health care professionals to give you pros and cons of every decision and let you the patient or in this case guardian decide. Ooh it makes my blood boil to hear that they were very pro circumcision...their opinions on what they would do for their own sons should not in any circumstance be seen. Grrr!

Do your research on pros and cons of both please and then decide so at least your making an informed decision
I agree with this and this is how my office is.

But if I ask my practitioner what they would do and why, I expect a biased and personal answer from them.

Techincally in that circumstance we are taught to tell you that we can not give you our personal opinion and it is your choice pros vs cons again. Legally and ethically it is our responsibility to never give you our opinion on what we would do personally. It could always slap us in the face in a matter of ways.

jenb_99 · April 2014

Holy cow, I learned so much from this article! I'm going to post a sign on my door stating that all males entering our home must be circumcised, to protect us from HIV and herpes. And I'm going to suggest to the city council that local businesses reserve stalls in the men's restrooms for uncirced patrons. Keep your dirty foreskins away from me and my family!

hfooter · April 2014

Lild09 said:

hfooter said:

Lild09 said:

Jillzy86 said:
Just finished a six week birthing class and the nurse and dr's who came in were very pro circumcision. I left the disision up to my husband. This topic is a very personal choice and I understand both points of views.
This. Oh this makes me angry as a nurse. It is our duty as health care professionals to give you pros and cons of every decision and let you the patient or in this case guardian decide. Ooh it makes my blood boil to hear that they were very pro circumcision...their opinions on what they would do for their own sons should not in any circumstance be seen. Grrr!

Do your research on pros and cons of both please and then decide so at least your making an informed decision
I agree with this and this is how my office is.

But if I ask my practitioner what they would do and why, I expect a biased and personal answer from them.
Techincally in that circumstance we are taught to tell you that we can not give you our personal opinion and it is your choice pros vs cons again. Legally and ethically it is our responsibility to never give you our opinion on what we would do personally. It could always slap us in the face in a matter of ways.

Eh well then our chosen pediatrician and CNM go against this and this is what makes me like them. We asked our CNM about circumsicsion and she is very against it. We on the other hand are kind of Jewish and will probably get it done. But I told my husband to research it. The fact that she was willing to express her thoughts on it impressed me and makes me like her even more. Even if we decide to get him circumsized. I value an honest real thought out opinion over generic ethical answers.

ThereBeDragons · April 2014

Lild09 said:

Just finished a six week birthing class and the nurse and dr's who came in were very pro circumcision. I left the disision up to my husband. This topic is a very personal choice and I understand both points of views.
This. Oh this makes me angry as a nurse. It is our duty as health care professionals to give you pros and cons of every decision and let you the patient or in this case guardian decide. Ooh it makes my blood boil to hear that they were very pro circumcision...their opinions on what they would do for their own sons should not in any circumstance be seen. Grrr! Do your research on pros and cons of both please and then decide so at least your making an informed decision
I agree with this and this is how my office is. But if I ask my practitioner what they would do and why, I expect a biased and personal answer from them.
Techincally in that circumstance we are taught to tell you that we can not give you our personal opinion and it is your choice pros vs cons again. Legally and ethically it is our responsibility to never give you our opinion on what we would do personally. It could always slap us in the face in a matter of ways.

I get this completely, but as a patient it's still sometimes hard to put medical advice in context.

One of my most frustrating discussions with a doc came when my MFM laid out all of the many risks and options when we discovered my cervix was short and I had amniotic sludge. He was willing to give his primary recommendation as a medical doctor, but also offered several additional options for us to consider. Some of those extra options came with very hard to weigh risks.

Like- if you get a cerclage you might trap an infection in the uterus which could turn you septic and do nothing to save the baby. Very very sick mama and dead baby. Worst case scenario.

Or you might not have an infection and the cerclage could keep baby in place until viability- but you will probably still have a micro preemie and increase the risk of major disability for your child.

Or the slim chance that you might not have an infection AND the cerclage could work perfectly and you could make it to 36+ weeks.

Or do no cerclage and hope that preventing PTL is enough to keep baby cooking until viability.

We asked the doc what he would choose if it were his wife, and ethically he didn't feel like he could answer. I got the feeling that he would have chosen no cerclage himself- but he wouldn't come out and give any recommendation- just outlined the risks and stressed that it was optional. And that was a hard hard decision to weigh without hard numbers in front of us. We lucked into the best case scenario, but it still feels kinda like luck rather than a fully rational and reasoned decision.

Its hard coming from a position of ignorance where you can't truly make a reasoned decision because you lack the knowledge to weight the risks.

motoLyn · April 2014

One of the Pediatricians that I had interviewed told me he viewed circumcision as a cosmetic surgery. So it was up to the parents to decide on what they wanted to do for their son. I found that kind of refreshing.

Empireceo · April 2014

hfooter said:

Just finished a six week birthing class and the nurse and dr's who came in were very pro circumcision. I left the disision up to my husband. This topic is a very personal choice and I understand both points of views.
This. Oh this makes me angry as a nurse. It is our duty as health care professionals to give you pros and cons of every decision and let you the patient or in this case guardian decide. Ooh it makes my blood boil to hear that they were very pro circumcision...their opinions on what they would do for their own sons should not in any circumstance be seen. Grrr! Do your research on pros and cons of both please and then decide so at least your making an informed decision
I agree with this and this is how my office is. But if I ask my practitioner what they would do and why, I expect a biased and personal answer from them.
Techincally in that circumstance we are taught to tell you that we can not give you our personal opinion and it is your choice pros vs cons again. Legally and ethically it is our responsibility to never give you our opinion on what we would do personally. It could always slap us in the face in a matter of ways.
Eh well then our chosen pediatrician and CNM go against this and this is what makes me like them. We asked our CNM about circumsicsion and she is very against it. We on the other hand are kind of Jewish and will probably get it done. But I told my husband to research it. The fact that she was willing to express her thoughts on it impressed me and makes me like her even more. Even if we decide to get him circumsized. I value an honest real thought out opinion over generic ethical answers.

This is exactly why I love our pedi, and even though we've moved an hour away, I still go to her.

OdaMaeBrown · April 2014

Not nearly enough info of the positive effects on a child's self-esteem when he has a beautiful foreskin mullet. Study fail.

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